Cube vs. Deicide
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Filet - Heavens Tear
Posts: 414 Arc User
Does anybody actually have cube and/or deicide and can tell me how the effects actually work? Like for ex. how long beserk lasts for, or how much from max hp deicide takes off? Also I know that deicide is better than cube with tons of -interval gears, but out of the 3 possible (wrist, cape, tome) I'm pretty sure that I'll only be getting the -.1 interval from wrist, so in that case with a total of -.2 interval (from wrist+deicide) would deicide still be a better choice?
Thanks for the input.
Thanks for the input.
Post edited by Filet - Heavens Tear on
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Soul Infect removes 10% max health. Really only useful on barbs, high CS people with refines, and bosses. Use cube with genie skills for double damage with no drawbacks, not good for PvE, but should work in PvP nicely.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Deicide's main strenght is its -interval, while cube is double dmg (as everyone knows) . Cube+Genie, may work pretty good but its too dangerous for both pve and pvp, for in pve the boss would take too long to kill, that ur genie skill, would either be in cooldown or out of energy (happens when u use more than 1 genie skill) against normal mobs, its gonna be stamina ****, if u use it every now and then, may not work if u use other genie skills, and if u get aggroed by more than 1 mob and some are magic and ur genie ran out of energy, its kaboom! PvP, same as pve, i find it dangerous to be used since the berserk is a debuff u may end up getting more dmg than dealing it to them and will also render ur genie useless if ur gonna use it for purifying purposes, u wont be able to holy path, occult ice or whatever useful genie skill u have for pvp, i dont know though if u can pass the berserk onto other weapons, if it is possible, whenever they kite and ur on berserk, switch to pole and farstrike their ****. All in all, cube comes with great power and even greater risk... Go with cube if u plan on having ur genie only for purification.
Deicide, nothing much to be explained other than wat has been posted already... greatest str? speed... want berserk dmg? stun and flame their **** (for hybrids)I guess ill choose deicide, i cant think of any drawbacks yet for this weapon other than i havent tried the soul infest debuff yet >.<0 -
Cubes ability is a timed buff (i do not know the duration) which doubles your physical attack. Your physical attack is the number in your character stat window for how much damage your normal attacks do. Therefore for normal attacks you should do double damage the entire duration of the buff, and it should only effect special attacks based off weapon damage %. The ability also boosts attack speed. The defense lowering can be countered with stun or items (either puri yourself or stop the enemy from attacking). During the buff the speed of this should be the same if not very close to what decide is with the -interval stuff, plus the double damage over a period of time mixed with the fact fists have highest activation rate for abilities should yield more damage. These fists would be horrible for pve where you are tanking the damage....if you are just damage dealing tho what I said above applies.
This is why in theory at least the berserk on cube is better for fast attacking weapons where you use normal attacks (get a ton of double damage hits in a row), and the berserker on hatchets is better for slow weapons, where you rely more heavily on spec attack spammage (doubling the damage of the entire attack, not just physical attack).
Also in theory both berserk and berserker should stack on each other since the normal run of the mill berserker is not a buff. So use cube to get the buff then switch to Buddha: Peace (the berserker 90 fists), and berserk normal attacks should hit 4x damage, berserk crits 8x damage. This is only a prediction but I think it might work lol.
Personally im going with shadowforce guantlets (tt99 green) for the heal/increase all defense ability, since fists proc abilities alot that would be really nice to save me healing as much. For pve obviously and useful for tanking.0 -
Yeah, the swap to Buddha:Peace is a spike that's been talked about on fourms; especially if a sparked Tyrseus can somehow be worked in as well. As for the debuff, if it amps damage on your character, why bother purifying? Just use the immune to extra damage genie skill.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Hm so far from these posts it seems like cube has more potential to be good at pvp than deicide? Also for the genie skill, i think it's evil ward that prevents increased dmg debuffs, but would you have to cast evil ward before beserk activates (because it's random activation) or can you cast it after beserk to get rid of the debuff?
Also since apparently the max hp debuff on deicide isn't that great, it just comes down to -.1 interval vs. beserk+3% crit right?0 -
Pretty much, yeah. Great when you don't have an archer or sage veno available for boss runs, but too flighty to rely on right now. In a few years when even arcane have 8k+ health, then it could be more useful. If it procs pretty well, anyways.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
I think demon/sage preferences might also come into play when determining which one you want.
For demon I'd say deicide is better, demon spark more than doubles your attack power (about 2.4x more phy damage for me right now) AND adds 25% attack speed. If you use cube, your demon spark status might be covered up a few seconds later. Even if it does add as much attack speed as demon spark, which I doubt, you'll be gimping your damage. For sage it probably doesn't matter that much.
-0.2 is enough to make your attack speed 2.0. Without deicide's -0.1 you'll be left with 1.67. Personally I'll choose a solid increase in attack speed that doesn't interfere with cleric's rb and my demon spark.
About berserk last time I heard it was an increase in 100% weapon damage. If someone have the TT99 Mirage Scimitar, we'll be able to check if it is in fact double physical damage. If it does increase physical damage it will be more op than berserker. I doubt it's actually that good though.0 -
Since it overrides the buff from spark erupt its probably better using drakes breath bash with it, it wont override the 100-135% (sage or demon) added fire damage. Though that is not as good as +500% weapon damage plus the other mods you get, its still something, and only costs 2 sparks. You could also add in dragon bane with the extra spark on top of it. Good against heavy armor people at the very least.0
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Well both seem really good... although since beserk cancels out buff from demon spark that's a bit disappointing. Since beserk adds a weap atk buff, would it be possible to activate beserk, and then switch to GX or something for ridiculous spike damage?
So what I've gathered so far from people makes me think that cube might be too random to effectively use in pvp? Being successful with fists in PvP is dependent on holding your opponent in place with stuns/freeze in order to take advantage of the ridiculous dps. However in order to stun/freeze a decent amount of chi is needed, and if the stun is achieved but beserk doesn't activate then it's kind of a waste of the chi. Also if beserk does activate at an inopportune moment where the stun fails, then you're left extremely vulnerable. This coupled with the fact that beserk and demon spark cancel each other out, makes it seem like deicide is a better choice for pvp. But yeah any additional input would be appreciated (maybe from someone who uses cube/deicide?), so far the information provided has been very helpful
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I think deicide is better overall than cube.
Against bosses the increased damage taken might tick your charm when the boss does aoe and using pots/genie to remove the debuff is not reliable. Switching to other weapons after activation of berserk is not good since the high dps comes from using fists. Deicide is useful when there aren't archer/sage veno available and it's great with -interval gears.
For pvp the double atk is nice but you would have to hope for the effect to activate while keeping your opponent stunned/freezed and then you would have to waste apo pot/genie skill to remove the debuff. Soul infect of decide might be better. It has about 10% chance to activate and lasts for 25 secs (usually enough to kill your opponent) and combined with -interval gears, it's possible to activate the effect while the target is still stunned and then switch to gx for an easier kill.
I have to test soul infect with aoe skills. It would be great if it works on everybody getting hit by the aoe.
Anyway we need to test cube berserk effect too. Gx berserk description states clearly that it doubles your damage while cube berserk description is double of your physical attack.
1) 2*[( ( 1 + ( ( 2 * STR / 3 ) / 100 ) ) + MASTERIE ) * ( LVL + EQATK )]
2) ( ( 1 + ( ( 2 * STR / 3 ) / 100 ) ) + MASTERIE + BERSERK (=100%)) * ( LVL + EQATK )
Which effect is true?0 -
Alot of people are also assuming that spark will be over-ridden, which makes no sense since they are different effects. Heck, increased physical attack proc from behemoth stacks with the barb increase attack, as well as stacking with spark increased attack. They all use the same icon and do the same thing, still stack. So unless someone tries it out, ignore all the people assuming it does.
Also, it doesn't double the damage against you even if you don't rid the detriment. And since fist is all about DPS, doubling it means your damage increase will still be higher than their damage increase. The only thing to change that, would be losing a stun lock against a ranged class which has skills to get away from melee range.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
both the cv fist and hh90 gold fist suck. fist/claws are all about speed, the effects these offer aren't worth the time.
cv fist = self-inflicted suicide. unless you have an ep slave to purify you, you'll die from the 100% amp. the +patk is a lie. you don't have double, you have about 100% more(half the power of a single fury), which is only calculated from the base(the base is before rings, weapons, equip mod. this is based entirely on your passive+str).
hh90 gold fist = slow. on the upside you get the 1 thing all of you recognize: berserker. on the downside: you now cannot kill. wr in my guild made these fist and sold them the next day. within that same day I saw them being sold again on world chat.
fist/claws = speed/crit. the little effects from these 2 weapons are terrible for both.0 -
both the cv fist and hh90 gold fist suck. fist/claws are all about speed, the effects these offer aren't worth the time.
cv fist = self-inflicted suicide. unless you have an ep slave to purify you, you'll die from the 100% amp. the +patk is a lie. you don't have double, you have about 100% more(half the power of a single fury), which is only calculated from the base(the base is before rings, weapons, equip mod. this is based entirely on your passive+str).
hh90 gold fist = slow. on the upside you get the 1 thing all of you recognize: berserker. on the downside: you now cannot kill. wr in my guild made these fist and sold them the next day. within that same day I saw them being sold again on world chat.
fist/claws = speed/crit. the little effects from these 2 weapons are terrible for both.
What you say makes sense, however are you 100% certain that the +patk from cube is only about 100% more and calculated from the base?0 -
deicide... pvp with fists cant be done with zerk, u cant depend on that, way too unreliable. its even hard with interwal, but that can work.Nullum crimen sine lege.0
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of course. people in my server actually farm cresent valley and make these things. if it were doubled(ie: I've seen these +12, and that's roughly 6-6.5k patk w/ dark passive), that's 12-13k patk, which would be well over what axes offer.
in reality, it goes from 6-6.5k to 6.5-6.9k, and last about 10 seconds(10 seconds of 100~ more pvp damage, in return taking doubled damage).0 -
of course. people in my server actually farm cresent valley and make these things. if it were doubled(ie: I've seen these +12, and that's roughly 6-6.5k patk w/ dark passive), that's 12-13k patk, which would be well over what axes offer.
in reality, it goes from 6-6.5k to 6.5-6.9k, and last about 10 seconds(10 seconds of 100~ more pvp damage, in return taking doubled damage).
Ok do you know what the atk speed increase is?0 -
Still think I'll wait on someone to actually have the lunar fists to find out what their true effect is. If you took double damage under berserk status, they usually just state that. Since it just mentions increased damage, it sounds more 15%-60% range.
As for Cube mixed with Buddha: Peace, the only way I planned on using the two was to work up for a large damage spike making use of Tyrseus' high % boost compared to other skills. Even Myriad pales in comparison to how powerful Tyrseus can strike for.
Now not sure if there is an actual difference in wording between base physical attack and base physical damage, but if there isn't then base phys attack is not based on damage multiplier. I tested out using the exact same fists for each part; I did normal attacks, sparked attacks, normal Tyrseus, sparked Tyrseus.
Normal attack on the horsies was averaged pretty close at 2.2K dmg a hit. Sparked hits were around 4.1K dmg a hit. So not quite double, and added 1.9K dmg.
Now Tyrseus normal dealt 5.5K damage, not a high refinement on my new weapon. However, sparked dealt roughly 10K damage each time. Now if spark was counted seperate, it should only be 7.5K damage. As such, spark boost's effect on your character screen is counted as part of the base physical damage to reach that higher number; again, almost double the damage.
Regardless, I plan on getting Buddha: Peace and Cube for the Tyrseus spike for the sake of obscenity. Most likely won't refine them too high for a while, as my Gorenox will be my main grinding fists. Deicide may be faster, but doesn't heal me as I go. Until I get in the -.35 interval range anyways, at which the higher attack rate will likely save me more damage than Gorenox will heal.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok do you know what the atk speed increase is?
20%Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Still think I'll wait on someone to actually have the lunar fists to find out what their true effect is. If you took double damage under berserk status, they usually just state that. Since it just mentions increased damage, it sounds more 15%-60% range.
As for Cube mixed with Buddha: Peace, the only way I planned on using the two was to work up for a large damage spike making use of Tyrseus' high % boost compared to other skills. Even Myriad pales in comparison to how powerful Tyrseus can strike for.
Now not sure if there is an actual difference in wording between base physical attack and base physical damage, but if there isn't then base phys attack is not based on damage multiplier. I tested out using the exact same fists for each part; I did normal attacks, sparked attacks, normal Tyrseus, sparked Tyrseus.
Normal attack on the horsies was averaged pretty close at 2.2K dmg a hit. Sparked hits were around 4.1K dmg a hit. So not quite double, and added 1.9K dmg.
Now Tyrseus normal dealt 5.5K damage, not a high refinement on my new weapon. However, sparked dealt roughly 10K damage each time. Now if spark was counted seperate, it should only be 7.5K damage. As such, spark boost's effect on your character screen is counted as part of the base physical damage to reach that higher number; again, almost double the damage.
Regardless, I plan on getting Buddha: Peace and Cube for the Tyrseus spike for the sake of obscenity. Most likely won't refine them too high for a while, as my Gorenox will be my main grinding fists. Deicide may be faster, but doesn't heal me as I go. Until I get in the -.35 interval range anyways, at which the higher attack rate will likely save me more damage than Gorenox will heal.
you're smart and all telerith, but fist are just not meant for what you're trying to pull off. if you really, REALLY want to zerk, make some belials at 90. every good wr chooses multiple paths and axes suit fist users a lot better than the other 2 trees(although dark spear doom+fist = ****)0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Still think I'll wait on someone to actually have the lunar fists to find out what their true effect is. If you took double damage under berserk status, they usually just state that. Since it just mentions increased damage, it sounds more 15%-60% range.
As for Cube mixed with Buddha: Peace, the only way I planned on using the two was to work up for a large damage spike making use of Tyrseus' high % boost compared to other skills. Even Myriad pales in comparison to how powerful Tyrseus can strike for.
Now not sure if there is an actual difference in wording between base physical attack and base physical damage, but if there isn't then base phys attack is not based on damage multiplier. I tested out using the exact same fists for each part; I did normal attacks, sparked attacks, normal Tyrseus, sparked Tyrseus.
Normal attack on the horsies was averaged pretty close at 2.2K dmg a hit. Sparked hits were around 4.1K dmg a hit. So not quite double, and added 1.9K dmg.
Now Tyrseus normal dealt 5.5K damage, not a high refinement on my new weapon. However, sparked dealt roughly 10K damage each time. Now if spark was counted seperate, it should only be 7.5K damage. As such, spark boost's effect on your character screen is counted as part of the base physical damage to reach that higher number; again, almost double the damage.
Regardless, I plan on getting Buddha: Peace and Cube for the Tyrseus spike for the sake of obscenity. Most likely won't refine them too high for a while, as my Gorenox will be my main grinding fists. Deicide may be faster, but doesn't heal me as I go. Until I get in the -.35 interval range anyways, at which the higher attack rate will likely save me more damage than Gorenox will heal.
if u want to deal deadly dmg in aoe, use axes... and combine with poles or swords.
use everything for its meant to beNullum crimen sine lege.0 -
Hippie - Harshlands wrote: »if u want to deal deadly dmg in aoe, use axes... and combine with poles or swords.
use everything for its meant to be
The only thing that makes Tyrseus better than the others, is that its 260% base damage, inclusive of sparked and other buffs increasing damage. Which means a demon spark becomes 1300% of weapon damage. All the other ultis do not possess that perk.
For the rest of the time, Tyrseus has 2 min cooldown and isn't spammable, I use my axes for Heaven's. Much as you have said, not using everything at your disposal is not a good idea. The only thing debatable, is whether it is worth the money to get gear for 1 heavy spike that is only available once every 2 minutes, and requires a large amount of chi to pull off solo. In parties it is much easier, but for me just seeing that huge number will be worth it.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Wouldn't it be possible to see how much cube actually increases dmg by seeing how much myriad reduces base dmg then using that number to figure out how much doubling patk (aka 100% increase) would be?0
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I has Deicide/Decadal God on another server. It's so fast, when interval is maxed, it's almost impossible to lose aggro even when archers spark b:shocked Deicide comes right before Striking Dragon http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0a7013765dfa8812 this should be how a bm with Deicide should look like to achieve max interval possible without demon burst fury (2.84/s with demon fury burst / Cyclone Heal)
Deicide is so fast, you'll be triple sparking in a flash every time. And two successful Cyclones = full spark bar. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
Deicide still won't stop me constantly attempting to craft grade 13 OHT claws with -.15 interval. Sucks that PWdatabase was wrong about them having a -.1 interval add before they changed it 2 months back. I was so looking forward to 20 atks a second
Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
4 got wat i was suppose to sayb:sad0
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Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Deicide still won't stop me constantly attempting to craft grade 13 OHT claws with -.15 interval. Sucks that PWdatabase was wrong about them having a -.1 interval add before they changed it 2 months back. I was so looking forward to 20 atks a second
max attacks possible by the game mechanic is 5/s0 -
max attacks possible by the game mechanic is 5/s
Does this change anyone's view about achieving 3.33/s with demon cyclone or demon fury burst? (If they're getting the lionheart and asura bonus intervals).
It's good to inform the people that don't know the limit of intervals, but it's a irrelevant information.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
Well.... im thinking of 5 aps with Cube fist might be nice. If u can be permament in berserk means that ur dmg doubles. b:dirty And when u get sin tanking.. who cares how much dmg u take b:laugh0
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That is one hell of a necro[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks to the beautiful and talanted Zheii for the sigb:dirty
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I read the forums naked.0
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