Archers vs Bm, End Game
White_Puma - Lost City
Posts: 95 Arc User
I have a 7x bm and a 4x archer, I came back to my bm after my archer, because I was told archers arent as good as end game bm's. Im a fist/sword bm, I own heavies my level, but I never can out-do my level archers. I am just wandering, with a good end game bow (lunar 95 or hh99), can an archer with good gear kill their own level bms. Im not an extremely high level, so I can easily go back to my archer if they are truly the better class. If they aren't too much better, I will most likely stay on this account. But, I defintely have no chance when I fight archers 0-5 lvls higher than me, I get stunned and killed before I hit them more than 5 times.
Post edited by White_Puma - Lost City on
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Comments
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u sound as if u don't use a charm. If u don't use a charm against archer (or dueling) usually u will lose because archers can kite and eventually kill u (while u always have to try to chase them down)
End game it's mostly a factor of gear. With gx i own archers with similar gear to mine, but if they totally outgear me they usually win (or i get lucky with zerk crit). Though now that i use true emptiness, i can own most archers in the air.0 -
Im a fist/sword bm, so my end-game wep will be the hh100 sword(already have gold mask). And the last few times I've fought an archer, I have had a plat hp charm, but They will literally crit constantly, wiping my hp so fast.0
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if ur talking about the "Impossible" end game, then bm beats archer.
if ur talking lvl 90 "end game" then its about who has the higher armor/skill.i'm the one spinning in their chair, eating a ring-pop, wondering y the world hates broccolie so much... but loves it w/ cheese O.o... mabye we all should wear cheese to be better ppl. (Yes!!.. One more step to RUULING the worldb:thanks)0 -
If it's 8jun archer v.s. 8jun blade, the archer will most likely win due to higher intervals every second. You should focus more on fists than swords, fists will provide you with much better intervals than swords ever will. TT100 fists with one CV physical ring > TT100 blade, by far.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
higher intervals every second? since when do any archer wep fire faster than a bm hits? 8jun bow is 0.71/s
even an axe is fasterElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »higher intervals every second? since when do any archer wep fire faster than a bm hits? 8jun bow is 0.71/s
even an axe is faster
I was thinking more towards the 8jun armor stats, but damn 8jun bows are slow. Well, Blademasters both ways, I guess.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
All depends on how gud of a stun locker the bm is, a bm lower than me had killed me full time keeping me stunned, while i have 2 shot a lvl97 bm (without charm) .[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Poor thing ... lucky me b:victory0 -
..rank 8 bow is slow? the ****?
ea vs. wr is usually a long fight, stalemate because the ea has to run and the wr will just stun if he's low(2 6s stuns, how ****). stunners, however, wont win. if all they do is stun and attack with axes i don't see the fight in favor of the wr.
wingrise > hit > dark fury > metal spam0 -
..rank 8 bow is slow? the ****?
ea vs. wr is usually a long fight, stalemate because the ea has to run and the wr will just stun if he's low(2 6s stuns, how ****). stunners, however, wont win. if all they do is stun and attack with axes i don't see the fight in favor of the wr.
wingrise > hit > dark fury > metal spam
Considering bows in general are the slowest weapons in the game and most archers get their attack speed from stacking -interval....
That aside, you seem to be underestimating a good stun lock.
Also, triple hell spark? In a 1 on 1 fight? You really think they'll stick around to let you hit them after that? The instant they see that, they're gonna sprint/leap away or they could pop a damage immune pot or use magic marrow if they feel compelled to stand there and take the incoming slaughter.0 -
The only way an archer can kill a good bm is with lucky crits. A good bm for fighting an archer, the Anti Archer build, is Vit + Dex which means if you are a Axe or Fist bm you are either Lacking in Vit or dex Unless the fist bm is LA and has a lot of vit but would be lacking in str/physical attack and A axe BM will have to have a lot of strength which means ya will have to pick high dex or vit.
I use Lance, Sword, Axes. The way I get around axes is by capping my str at my TT90 HA req and using Calamitys which have a low str req (only use axes for delta mostly) and use my Lance which has a 198+ accuracy bonus, a perfect amber, and of course great range to catch those pesky runners. I tend to lose to archer my level simply because they have 10+ or some crazy refined weapon and if they can crit me several times along with their shield and stun it will make them a very tough opponent.
Long story short it depends on the BMs Build at level 90. Need High HP and High accuracy which can be done easily for sword and lance bms but not so easy for HA fist and Axe BMs.
This is all my opinion ofc =P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
See its black and white now. It means I quit! How poetic and stuff.0 -
I've talked to a 10x bm with hh100 sword, and it sounds to me like he owns quite a bit with them. The sword are better with the higher attack for a short fight. I do pk quite often, and heavies are fairly hard for me to kill. I need to get a nicely few crits in a row. Squshies on the other hand, even charmed ones 5+ levels higher, with crits I can easily kill. I mainly like swords better because the fist have no good skills. When I pk, I always manage to kill my target faster with hh70 sword compared to hh70 fist. My average hit with the sword is about 30% higher, and the skills hit A LOT higher for me. I've been able to 2 hit 8x charmed wiz's before, with a good timed stun+crit. I don't know if it is luck or what, but when I pk with my fist, I hardly ever crit. My crit rate is at 8%, but my sword rate while pking is about 10, and with fist, its like 5%.0
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you've never seen an ea with hh99 wrist/boots, pdef necklace and adorn, and rank top and bow. they hit faster than 3/4 of the wr weapons.Considering bows in general are the slowest weapons in the game and most archers get their attack speed from stacking -interval....
a good stunlock wont kill, it'll hold them in place so others can kill them.That aside, you seem to be underestimating a good stun lock.
the wr in question is suppose to be a stunner, so he'll try to stun of course. then discover his stuns are useless and the ea has already **** him. not to mention someone said this ea had rank 8, so it's more than likely a +12 g14 orange weapon. b:bye wrAlso, triple hell spark? In a 1 on 1 fight? You really think they'll stick around to let you hit them after that? The instant they see that, they're gonna sprint/leap away or they could pop a damage immune pot or use magic marrow if they feel compelled to stand there and take the incoming slaughter.0 -
you've never seen an ea with hh99 wrist/boots, pdef necklace and adorn, and rank top and bow. they hit faster than 3/4 of the wr weapons.
Seems to me like you've never seen a blademaster with full lionheart set with ashura belt and necklace.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c7bf3556a422adde 8jun archer with your armor set.
Attack Rate: 0.91 /sec.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1385141d02683727 8jun AXE blademaster with almost the same ideal equipment.
Attack Rate: 1.11 /sec.
(As you can see, even without the lionheart and ashura boosts, the axe is equal in speed to a 8jun bow that has the boosts).
And I assumed you meant the "pdef necklace and adorn" as the lionheart necklace and lionheart belt. If not b:shocked.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
why are we speculating the outcome of this by comparing -intervals?
i dont think archers get to continually normal hit on a bm for very long at all, especially considering the fact that bms have heavy armor, bms move fast as ****, and archers get melee penalty. more like kite around and hope lucky crits take the bm down instead of thinking you had a machine gun...isn't it? or does it somehow change at endgame with massive refines?Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
wth is 8jun? >.>I don't care how old or young you are, how small your **** is, how much of a nerd irl you are or how depressed you are that you never will get laid. There is no reason to act like an A-hole to everyone on an mmorpg. Its a shame that I have to take time out of my day to tell people "stop being an A-hole". So I end with this, if your acting like an A-hole, and some one tells you your being an A-hole chances are your being an A-hole.0
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rank eight /10charElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »why are we speculating the outcome of this by comparing -intervals?
i dont think archers get to continually normal hit on a bm for very long at all, especially considering the fact that bms have heavy armor, bms move fast as ****, and archers get melee penalty. more like kite around and hope lucky crits take the bm down instead of thinking you had a machine gun...isn't it? or does it somehow change at endgame with massive refines?
i agree.
idk wtf you guys are talking about
but i dont tend to normal shot bm's
how the hell does -interval matter with them ?0 -
Endgame as in Both Class 100+ with Rank 8 Wpns and say +10 Gear, Archer > Blademaster
Archers have a higher Damage + Critical Rate0 -
End game, (rank 8, max level) the only classes worth playing for pvp are archers and mages, any other classes is kinda pointless and really easy to kill. BM's..? Don't make me laugh...
Also listen to prof; he has more end game pvp experience than anybody on these forums. b:victory~Carpe Diem~0 -
Thank you for proving my point. They need to stack all that -interval in order to make their bow hit fast... and then there are still weapons that hit faster.you've never seen an ea with hh99 wrist/boots, pdef necklace and adorn, and rank top and bow. they hit faster than 3/4 of the wr weapons.
Assuming the archer has a maxed charm, decent HP, and great pdef (or perhaps makes the BM misses a lot).... oh and that the BM never serks, crits, or hs a serked crit, or uses their genie, and that the BM does crappy damage while keeping the stuns up.a good stunlock wont kill, it'll hold them in place so others can kill them.
Uh-huh... and care to share how this archer will have already **** the BM before he lands a stun if we take into account apoth pots, genie skills, etc? If we wanna talk +12 gears, we can also easily assume the BM did the same since we're assuming equal level sharding and all... The fight isn't as clear-cut as you seem to think it is and unless it's a battle with high refines involved, archer's are put at a disadvantage.the wr in question is suppose to be a stunner, so he'll try to stun of course. then discover his stuns are useless and the ea has already **** him. not to mention someone said this ea had rank 8, so it's more than likely a +12 g14 orange weapon. b:bye wr0 -
Axe/Fist works pretty good for killing archers. I suppose sword can sub in, but I pretty much Drake's Bash/Highland's then swap to fist, so I get the 2 skill cast drop. Get some hits in then Roar, normal attack. If they seem to have alot of health, I'll use Will of Bodhisatva before stun ends. Let's me keep up with them and prevents any of their freeze/stun skills. Ones who don't know that waste their time using that instead of getting away, then back to Stun lock.
Usually just need to pummel same level ones right now, they die in one stun lock set even with shield up. Otherwise I can toss in a Heaven's instead before swapping doing Roar to fists.
Demon spark can work, but will be end game type tactic. Most people say it wastes sparks, but with demon Drake's and Roar, and put full -interval gear, you earn what you use each time, so you still have sparks to maintain stun locks. Don't use it right now, but on many targets demon spark is useful in killing when solo.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
same skill level a wr will **** an ea. even a decently bad wr can beat an ea endgame with same refines.0
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i know im not even close to end game
but my faction leader and i always have duels.
we're both in our 80s
he's a bm... obviously im an archer b:victory
we both happen to have the exact same gear.
both have gold tt80 fully socketed with immaculates
cape of tauran chieftan 4 sockets
same helmet...
well pretty much same everything
same refines on everything for both of us
i 2 shotted him before he could even land a single hit on me...
does it really change that dramatically once demon/sage comes into play ?0 -
Zhadou - Heavens Tear wrote: »i know im not even close to end game
but my faction leader and i always have duels.
we're both in our 80s
he's a bm... obviously im an archer b:victory
we both happen to have the exact same gear.
both have gold tt80 fully socketed with immaculates
cape of tauran chieftan 4 sockets
same helmet...
well pretty much same everything
same refines on everything for both of us
i 2 shotted him before he could even land a single hit on me...
does it really change that dramatically once demon/sage comes into play ?
duels doesn't accomplish anything other then successfully throwing away a few coins toward repair bills. i can easily pop barbs in duels that i have no chance whatsoever of killing in the wild... even if i crit on every shot. when charms comes in to play, archers will struggle to take down bms. your only hope is timing. time the anti stun... time the dmg... time the genie skill.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »duels doesn't accomplish anything other then successfully throwing away a few coins toward repair bills. i can easily pop barbs in duels that i have no chance whatsoever of killing in the wild... even if i crit on every shot. when charms comes in to play, archers will struggle to take down bms. your only hope is timing. time the anti stun... time the dmg... time the genie skill.
This.
there's a reason why going into PK uncharmed is like putting a giant bulls-eye on your face.0 -
Hell , if duels are the case I ,as a wiz , could take down barbs 10 lvls than me just by kitting/slowing/sealing/sleeping which in pk I couldn't bypass their charm.
Now let's see :
#1 why would an archer hit a bm with normal attacks ? especially when he comes melee range .
#2 you realize the bm can get insane mag res with marrow mag and still keep a rather high phy res along with a high hp , right ?
#3 every1 assumes bms do low dmg and say they can only win IF they zerk/crit or zerk+crit . Well I don't see why they wouldn't ... as an LA mage I could just stand still and not die from a bm if they didn't do any of those , but they'll still do it , evasion won't make you escape all zerks/crits and keep in mind that your phy res ain't actually high .
#4 don't forget about that **** TS on dragon .
Archers were never made to kill bms , at least not end-game . An archer would be like a soldier with a machine gun or sniper rifle to take down vulnerable targets like other soldiers (fast,swift and deadly) and a wiz would be like a soldier with a rocket launcher to take down heavy targets like tanks ( slow but powerful impact ) .0 -
pfft too bad every other squishy ends up with more pdef and mdef lategame, so it's like someone with a rifle taking down an armored combat walker with rocket launchers b:surrender
venos must be like mobile control towers with turrets and a helicopter b:shockedElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »venos must be like mobile control towers with turrets and a helicopter b:shocked
Thanks. You just gave me an amusing mental image of a bunch of nix's being dropped upon catshops in Archo and exploding Air raid style.0 -
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imo the EA >BM but it deppends on if the ea uses phy def belt/neck or magdeff belt/neck and it deppeneds if they are fighting fully buffed or not, u cant really just saythat bm can beat EA end game or EA beats bm end game but i would honestly say EA >BM ,even though true end game bm would beat the ea0
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