Skill or no skill?
Starchief - Sanctuary
Posts: 606 Arc User
So many people argue this with me, I say most mmos(including this one) do not require skill to play, I mean all you do is click F whatever key and pray for a critical. It is also generally true, that people with money are better because they get better gear, once again not skill. Kiting and potting is arguable. Theres is no timing or movement involved in fighting, dont matter if toy strafe, a miss is just a chance, not a polygonal proximity. I consider games like StarCraft to be a game of skill, its a national sport for crying out loud. My point is you shouldn't be called a noob in this game just because your a lower level.
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Post edited by Starchief - Sanctuary on
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It does, however, take a certain level of skill to interrupt a bosses aoe. b:victory0
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Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »So many people argue this with me, I say most mmos(including this one) do not require skill to play, I mean all you do is click F whatever key and pray for a critical. It is also generally true, that people with money are better because they get better gear, once again not skill. Kiting and potting is arguable. Theres is no timing or movement involved in fighting, dont matter if toy strafe, a miss is just a chance, not a polygonal proximity. I consider games like StarCraft to be a game of skill, its a national sport for crying out loud. My point is you shouldn't be called a noob in this game just because your a lower level.
Depends on class i guess. A Tank needs probably only few skills...a BM also. But a cleric and mag are different. We have to heal you, puri you asap when you get debuffed (hellooooo jewel). We use sleep and silent in duels to stun you. We use shell if we get agro of 4 mobs, BB at aoe-bosses, squad heal, debuffs on bosses, RB for DDs and all this while still keep healing you lol.
Tank is easiest to use and play, while Veno is easier to lvl and grind. Mag and Clerics are squishy. Archers are....well...they love to take agro b:kiss
Cant say much about other classes actualy but thats what i can see....If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh0 -
ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »Depends on class i guess. A Tank needs probably only few skills...a BM also. But a cleric and mag are different. We have to heal you, puri you asap when you get debuffed (hellooooo jewel). We use sleep and silent in duels to stun you. We use shell if we get agro of 4 mobs, BB at aoe-bosses, squad heal, debuffs on bosses, RB for DDs and all this while still keep healing you lol.
Tank is easiest to use and play, while Veno is easier to lvl and grind. Mag and Clerics are squishy. Archers are....well...they love to take agro b:kiss
Cant say much about other classes actualy but thats what i can see....
nono not skills as in the ingame animated skills like plume shot, i mean player skills, as in what you do, which is usually nothing more than rolling your head across the f keys and till everything dies[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
to drive a car all i need to do is press the pedal and turn the wheel. brake when i need to.0
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Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »nono not skills as in the ingame animated skills like plume shot, i mean player skills, as in what you do, which is usually nothing more than rolling your head across the f keys and till everything dies
HA HA HA
I had similar issue as you. I decided to play BM with low vit (just 3 points on it), High dex to wear fists and bow.
This made the game very challenging and I had to improvise.
I;m playing a new BM now. I think another good thing to try out is a veno with no legendary pet b:chuckle0 -
Tecknic - Lost City wrote: »to drive a car all i need to do is press the pedal and turn the wheel. brake when i need to.
are honestly comparing driving a car to playing this game?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »Depends on class i guess. A Tank needs probably only few skills...a BM also. But a cleric and mag are different. We have to heal you, puri you asap when you get debuffed (hellooooo jewel). We use sleep and silent in duels to stun you. We use shell if we get agro of 4 mobs, BB at aoe-bosses, squad heal, debuffs on bosses, RB for DDs and all this while still keep healing you lol.
Tank is easiest to use and play, while Veno is easier to lvl and grind. Mag and Clerics are squishy. Archers are....well...they love to take agro b:kiss
Cant say much about other classes actualy but thats what i can see....
Nope, have a demon cleric in additionn to my BM, and my BM takes more skill when I go all out. Admittedly, I have had fun mixing healing/purification/heal area/attack all at once on some bosses, but that is only 4 spells where I wait for icons to pop up. I also just watch the boss, once he stops attacking I prep for the conditions/aoe that is coming.
With my BM I am swapping between 3 weapons, picking specific skills from each branch, choosing which spark skills to use based off of current party, and having to take aggro from masses of mobs should the tank die while trying to survive. Sleeps and freezes are pretty much no-brainers, once you get the hang of cleric pvp. Based off of damage of first spell, you know about what skills to use to drop to 51-55% health before sleeping em. Just need to get used to gauging health drop. BMs have stuns that timing is needed to shorten the span between them; we can't have one over-lap another. So everything done during the first stun must be finished to start 2nd stun to hit as close to first's ending as possible.
Now for single weapon using BMs, it is pretty much even. But multi-path BM is much more complex than PvP was on cleric.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »nono not skills as in the ingame animated skills like plume shot, i mean player skills, as in what you do, which is usually nothing more than rolling your head across the f keys and till everything diesStarchief - Sanctuary wrote: »are honestly comparing driving a car to playing this game?
Im not. im sorry. i forget to explain myself on the forums, tend to leave things mysteriously for people to figure out.
Im comparing the no skills theory to play the game. It does take an amount of skill to drive a car, its not something everyone gets from day one, and certainly takes learning for on road. Although it is not looked as having skill to drive a car because so many people do it.
Of course in the end, your just pressing keys to create animations in a game. But if the game is created in a way that you can vs. someone else and win, then it at least takes some considerable knowledge to win, thus bringing the skills into play.
A 90x ganking a 30x is not skill, might be fun for the player, but is not skill.
Now a 90x dueling/vs. another 90x needs to at least try a different approach that would require knowing or trying to figure out how to beat them.
I need to know that i have to stun f1 f4 f3 whatever , ya? I have to set up my own skill bar and stuff.
In instances i say it takes even more skill, fbs you have to makes sure everything goes as planned. The other day i did bh59 with a horrible squad that apparently didnt know how to play thier classes. Then after that i had great squad in which everyone knew what to do to keep everything going smooth and secure.0 -
aww well..i need F1, F2, F3, F5...F4 suckz lol and 1 for pots :PStarchief - Sanctuary wrote: »nono not skills as in the ingame animated skills like plume shot, i mean player skills, as in what you do, which is usually nothing more than rolling your head across the f keys and till everything dies
Yes, i dont move a lot while i grind but i think an archer has to run away when he gets agro :P so does mag (they never learn their lesson ...and i love it
) lol RUN RUN! If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh0 -
If everyone knows what they are doing, you are generally fine just spamming hotkeys until everything is dead, yes.
In those verge-of-party wipe situations however quick decision making is a must, and there is a necessity for correct timing of skills to minimize death/recover from whatever mistake was made. In those moments I'd say the skill of the player comes out.
That being said, it is true this game isn't very "skill based" in the OP's terms.0 -
Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »I;m playing a new BM now. I think another good thing to try out is a veno with no legendary pet b:chuckle
I did this from 1-95 b:shocked
I'm so lazy now... only got my herc a few weeks ago and I'm already seeing de-provements (is this a word? o.O) in my ability.
Meh, I'm trying to not use herc as much as possible so I keep my edge. One of the main reasons I didn't have a herc for nearly a year was I was like 70 before they even came out b:surrender
It's definitely fun though, playing a veno w/ no herc or nix. Air mobs are hell though... as are water mobs before 80.HT clerics at their finest:
hari: can you do mdef debuffs? makes the fight go faster
naughty_x: waste, I do more damage without them
hari: ...you do more damage in 2 seconds than reducing mdef by 35% for 4 casters does in 20 seconds?
naughty_x: is waste, i do more damage
hari: 3-3 BH goes a lot faster with a sin
naughty_x: no, only a difference of like 3 minutes
hari: ...we've been in here a lot longer than 3 minutes already
naughty_x: your opinion0 -
What is skill anyway? Mashing up buttons real fast? No, MMOs don't usually involve that kind of skill... It's knowing what to do at which time that counts as skill to me, and being smart enough to actually have the skills you need at the apropiate level... might not seem as much, but really i see a lot of people struggle with this...0
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What is skill anyway? Mashing up buttons real fast? No, MMOs don't usually involve that kind of skill... It's knowing what to do at which time that counts as skill to me, and being smart enough to actually have the skills you need at the apropiate level... might not seem as much, but really i see a lot of people struggle with this...
Very true. A great example is a cleric. A decent cleric will see that oh, the archer is injured since he pulled aggro from that mob and heal him. A great cleric will see that oh, the archer has pulled aggro since the mob is running towards him now and preemptively hit them with an Ironheart and be ready to follow up with a Wellspring when the mob actually hits the archer.
Basically I find that while it is easy to be a decent player in this game with very little skill, it also requires a lot of skill to be an excellent player in knowing when is the optimal time to use your skills, both in a party and when solo.0 -
What is skill anyway? Mashing up buttons real fast? No, MMOs don't usually involve that kind of skill... It's knowing what to do at which time that counts as skill to me, and being smart enough to actually have the skills you need at the apropiate level... might not seem as much, but really i see a lot of people struggle with this...
I guess i was sorta comparing other games here, I consider skill to have something to do with your reaction time, your precise mouse control, your worked and tested strategies, none of that im 10 lvls higher than you, you lose. Its not like pressing the f key faster would bernifit you either, its all timed, I suppose im trying to say its soo easy to do things in this game there are really no noobs or pros. Here we are all equally worthless.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I would say the game requires certain .. coordination But yes not Skill in my opinion.. IF this was a first person shooter game (CoD)(TF)(etc) then about 90% of us would be screwed, tossed around and called noobs lol! b:chuckle5 pet skill slots TVM :: venos will $hare more oFc
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Starchief - Sanctuary wrote: »I guess i was sorta comparing other games here, I consider skill to have something to do with your reaction time, your precise mouse control, your worked and tested strategies, none of that im 10 lvls higher than you, you lose. Its not like pressing the f key faster would bernifit you either, its all timed, I suppose im trying to say its soo easy to do things in this game there are really no noobs or pros. Here we are all equally worthless.
Go outside sanctuary and try to click on the golden edges as fast as you can. Let us know how many times you miss-clicked on them.
There you go, some sort of skill you can work on.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Go outside sanctuary and try to click on the golden edges as fast as you can. Let us know how many times you miss-clicked on them.
There you go, some sort of skill you can work on.
Difference is that .. to be succesfull in This game you don't have to do things like this ^ .. unlike other games where if some dust gets on the feet of your mouse or the weight you put in it is not right your pretty much screwed.5 pet skill slots TVM :: venos will $hare more oFc0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Go outside sanctuary and try to click on the golden edges as fast as you can. Let us know how many times you miss-clicked on them.
There you go, some sort of skill you can work on.
haha your funny, I mentioned earlier that I play StarCrfat didnt I? well it just happens to be an RTS, for those of who dont know thats Real Time Strategy, and the sheer micromanagement in that game is ridiculous, so dont talk to me about clicking on a lot of small, fast moving units. One way they could improve the pvp in this game is if you could shake off lock on by moving really fast or using a skill like "daze" or something. Adding a little more depth to the game play
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I've played a lot of SC before, and agree with you that a lot more "skill" is required to excel in that game than in this one. However, I disagree that this game takes little to no skill to play.
In terms of PvP, if you equip 2 players identically, but there is a big gap in their playing ability, I think most seasoned PvPers would agree that the better player will win almost all the time.
In PvE, skill is often reflected in the efficiency in the rate that players kill things, the ability to create synergy with teammates in squads (e.g. understanding of roles, timing of skills, saving chaotic situations, etc.) along the level of danger they put themselves (and their squads) in. At your current level, I'm sure you've been in squads with "skilled" players and saw how smoothly runs went, as well as been in squads with players who severely lack skill and saw what a mess it can be.0 -
KatieMorgan - Sanctuary wrote: »I've played a lot of SC before...
1 v 1 white boi?!?!!?!! I gosu u chobo!!![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
There's certainly some skill involved, judging by watching other players die repeatedly over things that are actually quite simple. However, the overall skill requirement for this kind of game is really quite low.
Perhaps it's because I'm used to classic, old-school RPG games like NetHack, where your chances of winning on your first 500 tries is 0%, where there are no continues, no rezzes, and the game's difficulty is tilted heavily against you.
Beating that kind of game takes a heck of a lot more skill than anything in PWI. But that doesn't mean PWI is a bad game. It just means it's more a casual and relaxed gaming experience.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
It takes skills at some point, but definitely less than some other games I've played. But a lot of it is related to the high-level cap; a bunch of lv30's will have a hard time dropping a lv80 in PVP. You can actually get away without much skill for most stuff.
However, you still need some skill. Some people are horrible at their class, I have to admit. A great tank will keep aggro from a party and will interrupt AOEs when possible; a good tank might lose aggro but will gain it back; and some bad ones just seem to be completely unable to understand the concept of "aggro"... or doesn't care. Just like clerics with purify, BMs who don't realize they can stun-lock targets, and so on.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Due to constant PMs: I'm not German, sorry folks
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WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »There's certainly some skill involved, judging by watching other players die repeatedly over things that are actually quite simple. However, the overall skill requirement for this kind of game is really quite low.
Perhaps it's because I'm used to classic, old-school RPG games like NetHack, where your chances of winning on your first 500 tries is 0%, where there are no continues, no rezzes, and the game's difficulty is tilted heavily against you.
Beating that kind of game takes a heck of a lot more skill than anything in PWI. But that doesn't mean PWI is a bad game. It just means it's more a casual and relaxed gaming experience.
oh nonononono dont get me wrong, i like this game, its my place to chill and blast music. Im just a very competitive person, and when someone 20 lvls higher than me randomly pks me and calls me a noob and say i have no skill, it pisses me off. Ive played NetHack, also I love Diablo LoD, in my opinion finest rpg ever made.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
moved to the off topic section
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there is no skill involved in mmos
unless you believe common sense is a skill
in which case... wow
the problem with sense is theres nothing common about it... and thats why a lot of people will argue mmos take skill0 -
Tecknic - Lost City wrote: »to drive a car all i need to do is press the pedal and turn the wheel. brake when i need to.
Best point made.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
like the car example, the only thing I need to do to draw is press a pencil to paper and push it...
Whether or not I draw well is a different story entirely.
And if this game took absolutely no skill to play... they how come you can still have a level 80+ cleric do a worse job than my level 73 cleric? (by the way... my gear isn't all that great b:surrender )[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvychar for the sig
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... and a few losers....0 -
"skills" are needed for everything but the amount is different
the only time I actully needed to try to do something other than spam keys though was aoe grinding...
roar, sweep, fissure, leap, change to spear, push, run, roar and change to axe, fan, sweep, change to spear, push, change to axe, cleave on close target, fissure, earthquake during casting fissure, wait, roar, spam aoe skills.
other than that, everything's just calculations and estimations looking at which methods are more profitable
btw if you're REALLY REALLY pro, you might be able to use fist, punch, change to axe right before the hit lands, back to fist, punch, change to axe just before hit lands, repeat.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] yay ^.^
stuffed a bunch of my favorite animes into 1 signature lolz0
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