New factions - beginning of the end

Kuaru - Dreamweaver · September 2009

I must confess, I feel a bit desperate.. b:surrender

Some time ago I created my own faction after I got fed up with being member myself. Either I kept being ignored or faction chat remained empty because of ventrilo. Well, first time after the faction was established I was all "Yay, finally!", but as time passed by I recognized that I should have better not created one..
Why?

First - I found few nice members, but some left again for bigger factions when they felt good enough. I mean - great. Big factions only getting bigger. Every faction first needs to grow, even Equinox and Calamity had to start somewhere. Or Kingdom and Kylin. Whatever they are called on every server. Maybe they had the advantage of being one of the first ones, but seriously, growing shouldn't be impossible nowadays even for new factions, or? Who know who will be the Calamity of tomorrow..

Second - Others wanted more help, but how should that be possible with only ~40 members, around 5 online at the same time? Noone is to blame for time zone matters.. And the top members, means the most active highest level, helped whenever they could. We can't do magic. And even if we are leader, director, marshals - We are no slaves. Sometimes real life needs us, or other own businesses. Be a bit more patient, we'll be there as soon as possible.. No reason to leave right away, really.. And besides, crying for instant help is why so many factions looking for MATURE members.. You are not being ignored only because we can't form a complete high-level squad in the next 3 minutes to help you kill five cactopods. We see your problem but give us some more time..

Third - Recruit battles. One faction starts recruiting in world chat, 5 others follow. In my opinion, creating a faction should be a bit more hard and a bit more special. Bigger fee in the beginning, lower one for lvl 2 and 3. I see so many level 20 guys leading a faction.. Where's the sense in this? People don't know anymore which faction is really helpful and which one is just like oh-cool-I'm-a-leader..

I hope you understand what i'm getting at. I really need some advice from faction experienced people.. How to get members when you can't offer TW right now and your top ten highest members aren't level 99 till 86? How to keep them in faction when just being nice and not ignoring anyone doesn't seem to work? How to recruit without using cookie terms? What's your secrets, giant guilds?

Sorry for whining, but this felt urgent to me and I don't write often in this forum.. So forgive me b:shy

And - while we're still at it -

Utopia on dreamweaver server is looking for mature, preferably adult players who are willing to help and come together as funny, crazy bunch.
No alts you never use please. And don't expect miracles, we are growing, but soon we can help YOU too. Don't let this remain utopia..

Miugre - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Part of the reason I'm factionless is that exact cheapening of the system which you speak of. It's hard to earn any kind of seriousness, loyalty, or indeed friendship from anyone when the "top rung" of the faction ladder is made up of TW-obsessed psychotics who use the CS like a drug, and the "bottom rung" is made up of... well, egotistical 13-year-olds who think paying 100k (or whatever the fee is) earns you a quick ticket to power and recognition.

If your faction is really about maturity and having a good time, then I salute you. I could think of a couple factions on HT which I would consider if I ever did decide to stop being factionless... but in general... don't give a **** about the size of your faction. If you have 15 people, you have 15 people. Be glad you have 15 people, and be glad they're fun people. Do not chase after "prestige" on a virtual world. You don't want to get involved in that kind of pissing contest.

Make friends through your friends list. If you squad with them often, then invite them to your faction. Be prepared if they say no.

Never ask a person randomly who's clearly 60+. They're factionless for a reason. If they're interested, they will ask you.

And finally, never ever ever ever send out "ninja" invites. I shouldn't have to explain this one. XD

Olba - Sanctuary · September 2009

Personally, I'm in a currently inactive faction that my friend, who got me into PWI, inherited from the previous owner, who left the game. This has stopped random faction invites and also allows me to monitor the characters of my friend to see how they're progressing, without actually having them on my flist.

Really, the only times that I feel bad is when I get another miniboss or need an FB, but that is mainly because I got a grand total of two friends who are both very busy with non-PWI stuff.

CrackKills - Lost City · September 2009

your ideas are good but not possible in this game. everyone is out for themselves. everything has been made too easy for people who cash shop and insanely difficult for people who dont unless they are in a large salaried faction. everyone on PW thinks when they ask for help 30 people should all drop what they are doing and come help them instantly. no one cares if people are doing their own things at the time.

i have led top guilds in other games and forced people to work for things on their own. the ones who wanted to help out the most were given the most help themselves. people who demanded help were removed instantly because they will always be more of a headache than they are worth.

this game is filled with too many greedy 15 year olds with overinflated e-peens. they all havent figured out yet that they are all meaningless and could easily be replaced.

all the top guilds pretty much recruit strictly by level. no one cares if the person is a complete idiot or not. if they are high level they are willing to deal with annoyance and stupidity just because it might help them to win more land. if the top guilds boycotted idiots then people might be held accountable for their actions instead of just switching sides when they find a way to use others.

Kephras - Heavens Tear · September 2009

The only thing I would add to this so far is, don't waste your time (or teles) with World-Chat recruitment. I've found a couple friends this way, but never anyone who's stuck with us. If you want to recruit, meet people, talk to them, get to know them, and then decide if they're someone you want in your faction or not. It also gives them a good sense of who you are.

On a more personal note, I've all but given up helping on these bloody BH quests. I rarely do my own, and being dragged all over the map daily is something I get enough of with WQ.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · September 2009

I totally understand what you talking about. It very difficult to hold good players in faction. The health core about 30-40 higher level 80+ is very important for good working factions. In my faction I saw few people they left if they didn't get intermediately help. One time I was waiting to finish my quest for 6 weeks. I couldn't find appropriate high level players to help so I waited.
You have true about children playing game. They are not patient. I always tell them, be patient and everything will come it just question of time. But not. They became rude and leaving.b:sad
Yep to have good and big faction is very difficult.

calavera · September 2009

My thoughts on the matter...

First, be honest about what you can acomplish with the people you've got and try to work out a plan detailing exactly what kind of faction you want to be. Try finding a niche; you can cater to casuals, pvpers, older players, people who want to farm instances or make RB runs, people who want to craft or merchant, etc. Yes you might do a bit of everything but having a specialty and training people for certain kinds of work will earn you a good rep and even relations with other factions, which are esential as sharing resources can be specially good for small outfits. Do not try to steal people away from them or let them recruit yours, this is key.

Keep faction chat clean, if your crew is into talking rough or doing a lot of dirty jokes warn newcomers (nothing wrong with having fun) but make sure no one disrespects other members and that everyone is comfortable. This might mean you may have to turn down people just for having a diferent sense of humour, but it really is an important issue. However you may get along, always keep drama out of faction chat and don't let your core use it as their personal chatroom, this alienates many players.

Choose oficers carefully, as a rule of thumb don't give positions to lowbies unless you know them to be capable in a certain role (recruiting, etc.) and can count on them handling themselves. They shouldn't be people that hog member's fb tabs or that monopolize helping lower levels as all members should feel they have an equal shot at helping out. Don't let people bully you into thinking friendship entitles them to anything either. Never do ninja invites or recruit through world chat, you should have an idea of what profile the players you need should have, and should invest at least a couple of days scouting the areas where people at their level range quest. Know what kind of players can help you, wizards and archers can become very versatile players aside from their DD skills, and venos/BMs can solo many things so don't just stick to barbs and clerics. The highest levels in your faction need at least enough people at their range to make a couple of squads, else it won't be worth it for them to stay, make sure you are realistic about what this level range should be and try growing (leveling) from there.

Make sure your members are self sufficient, people who can't find their own squads for quests or BH probably expect things handed to them and won't help you in the long run. Be specially wary of the types that like to waste the time of higher levels doing stuff they should be able to handle themselves, the people helping get no coin or xp for their trouble and the low levels become weaker players. Be atentive to the needs of certain classes, contributions to barb repairs and cleric charms are esential if you want them to dedicate a part of their time to helping guildies.

Finally, being a leader is a bit like having a second job, make sure you have reliable people to help you and don't burn yourself dedicating all of your online time to helping others. You should be able to stick it out for months, maybe even years, if you want to acomplish the goals for your faction.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · September 2009

You raise some perfectly logical questions, that are indeed not easy to answer.

Sometimes you just have to hope for the best of luck when you recruit, we all have our own minds, some of us get into a faction, and eventually get bored of it, and move on, whereas others get annoyed by the people in them, or even a close friend left, and they would like to join them in there new faction. I realize you arent asking for reasons why they left, but we do all have our own minds, we can't force anyone to stay where they don't want to be.

One solution is to invite only friends to a faction, but if you would like to become strong enough to take on another faction later on, then yea its probably best that you find others to come help fill that void to take on a bigger faction such as Calamity.

I also know what you mean about leaders never being on, I don't like it one bit, gets real boring, real fast. Not to mention some leaders dont know when to tell the own members... to stfu that they may be in the wrong too. I can see wanting to stick up for your faction members, but it is also THERE name that they are dragging through the dirt. Sure we don't know the whole story, but the one who defends his faction members kind of looks like the 'bad' guy when he does so.

At least imo. (Depending on how he or she does so)

Right now cala, and equinox have something going for them with how many lands they have got on the server, it is a STRONG incentive to join them, but for other lesser known guilds/liked guilds it is somewhat difficult getting people in, and getting them to stay. To be honest, short of offering new recruits money I can't see you getting brand new recruits... let alone high leveled ones. xD Even the people who have the patience to wait a bit to get there stuff done, can only wait for so long befoe they say F*** this s***, and leave looking for a stronger faction who will be able to help them in a more timely fashion. (Without having to use teles/private chat rooms, or spamming west arch for help)

Successful recruit tactics can be difficult to come by, when you don't have the money/power to back up your advertisement so to speak.

* Though the less drama the better imo. ^^ Though everyone has there preferences, so just keep trying, until you find something that entices people to COME and STAY. I for one like to do tt runs a lot. So if you can start recruiting people for tt, fb, and even bh's, maybe that will work, you never know until you try.

daemonnnn · September 2009

i just got to lvl 49 on harshlands server and i get the same issue of not finding an higher faction r someone to help me do my cult and bosses :S the community really falls apart when they get into factions IMO

Xymantha - Dreamweaver · September 2009

I was in level 3 faction myself for a pretty good while. I found many of the players to be very helpful, and I'm still friends with a few of them. I found the leadership to be terrible however. I can understand that people have their own games to play, but IMO its dead wrong of a factions leader to tell their member they are in the wrong to want to have their TT gear. Dead wrong of the leader to be hypocritical and say "the reason I'm not helping right now is because I have my own game to play" -- then turn around and make a big todo about someone else not helping them, because that person had their own game to play. I left that faction and as much as it pained me to leave my friends, I did not want to be under the leadership of a person like that.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver · September 2009

Since then, I started this character and made my own faction. Yes, we are small with only 10 players. But we are having fun so far. We may do a TW someday, we may not. We may grow large, we may not. But one thing remains certain - I will always try to be fair to my members and help out whenever possible. Having quests out the wazoo left on my list is only a good thing. That means when no one needs help - I'll have plenty to do on my own.

I don't do ninja invites and I only used 1 tele which got me 4 people. So far, I've had two people leave. 1 from the tele batch and another from a personal invite. Everyone in my faction has been "recruited" personally by myself even though I have 2 marshals a director (my sister) and the rest are executors. It doesnt bother me that we aren't large. Coming from my last faction, I was used to not doing any TW after the very first week I was with them and we lost to Dynasty after an hour and a half of sheer uncoordinated battle. I was also used to partying with the same three or four people every few days for TT runs. So all in all - its much the same now as it was then, only less drama - more fun - new experience - and the ability to guide new players along the path to success.

daemonnnn · September 2009

xD my first faction had a discriminating prick that caused me to leave it..the 2nd,well the leader took like 5mil and left us to rot xD..now i'm on a low lvl faction that isn't around at my game time much xD

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear · September 2009

leading a faction is hard be nice to your members but take some time for yourself to
before starting a faction make some friends with who you are gonna start the faction as for invites like stated before get to know people somewhat before inviting them
you cant always help and somethimes gotta be a litle rude

i wish you goodluck

Kniraven - Lost City · September 2009

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only thing I would add to this so far is, don't waste your time (or teles) with World-Chat recruitment. I've found a couple friends this way, but never anyone who's stuck with us. If you want to recruit, meet people, talk to them, get to know them, and then decide if they're someone you want in your faction or not. It also gives them a good sense of who you are.

On a more personal note, I've all but given up helping on these bloody BH quests. I rarely do my own, and being dragged all over the map daily is something I get enough of with WQ.

:O You know Kephras, I really like your posts. Wish we could meet ingame.

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Kephras - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only thing I would add to this so far is, don't waste your time (or teles) with World-Chat recruitment. I've found a couple friends this way, but never anyone who's stuck with us. If you want to recruit, meet people, talk to them, get to know them, and then decide if they're someone you want in your faction or not. It also gives them a good sense of who you are.

QFT

Also dont rush, dont make a lvl 3 faction and then just try to fill it up, stay level one until all slots are filled and build slowly, its better to have a small good faction than a large sucky one

Kuaru - Dreamweaver · September 2009

Hey guys,

thanks for all your nice replies

Never thought it would be that many..
You made it a lot easier for me to think about a successful strategy how to grow and lead my faction. It's always good to know some other opinions and points of view before you throw in the towel or have your thoughts run in circles. I wish you the best of luck on whatever server you are b:cute

Santacruz - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

QFT

Also dont rush, dont make a lvl 3 faction and then just try to fill it up, stay level one until all slots are filled and build slowly, its better to have a small good faction than a large sucky one

wise words, barb knows well =p

BratFury - Heavens Tear · September 2009

I would like to add...

You will see people come and go. That is just part of faction life. They move onto factions better suited to their needs. They may have a friend they have met and quest with all the time. There are several reasons that people leave, but the majority of your group will likely stay.

Be helpful, but don't over work yourself.

I agree with others, make members do stuff themselves; that they can do.

My favorite words have become "google it". Thats how I found everything when I first started on this game, they can to.

LacusCIyne - Sanctuary · September 2009

You should probably look up what the word Utopia means.

brantanor · September 2009

Well, i haven't been playing this game for very long, about 10 days now. So i'm not in a position to give advice on factions.

But i can say this though :

On my first char i was recruited randomly when i was lvl 15. I started a new char that i'm playing now and started lvling that one close to 50 now.
The faction that recruited me had some good lower members, and the high lvl ones (62 max) helped me with an fb.

After that all went downhill. No one ever talked in faction chat, and the only pm's i got was from lower lvl's requesting for help or even items....

When i talked to leader(s) about it, they just booted me without comment. Guess they weren't interested .

Now i'm in a faction that has some good people, is fun and they help eachother. But they also play their own way, meaning they do their thing when they need to.

Like in the other games i've played over the years i did found out a few things :

- always take care of yourself first.
- when in clan/guild/faction, try to help others without losing something yourself.
- if they don't talk they're probably busy. If they never talk, leave as soon as possible because you're probably with egotists who only care about themselves anyway.
- party up with other non-faction players, you make friends that way. And often enough they help you out more then own faction members.
- don't expect help instantly. be patient. play YOUR way, not theirs.

The second you ask yourself "why am i here", leave instantly.

Those are my thoughts about factions.

jochii · September 2009

errorrrrrrrr

Jiblet - Sanctuary · September 2009

Cerunnosx is spot on. Our fac (Balance) stayed at lvl 2 until we got to 95 members, nearly all of whom are active players,and only then upgraded to level 3. We're currently at 130 members and have a strong core of players mostly 7x-9x.

A few points to think about when you run a fac:

Expect to invest time in your players - I've noticed a lot of people start a fac because they want to be seen as "the Leader". Personally I don't give a damn about the status trip, and I notice that a lot of good faction leaders are similar

Organisation skills are key - set officer roles and responsibilities, and execute on them

Choosing your officers is key - to be honest I think pretty much any Balance officer could easily run a faction in their own right if they chose to, and I am damn grateful for the support that they provide

Rush recruiting doesn't work - look at Steel on the Sanc server for a perfect example of this. Take time to interview potential new members, make it clear what they will get from you, but also what you expect from them. Yes, you need to "sell" your fac to new members, but don't promise things you can deliver - be real about this

Don't be scared to boot inactives / drama merchants - give them a chance to change wherever possible, but at the end of the day 1 or 2 bad people can destroy a fac.

Ideally, unless you are a max (200 member) fac, try and keep the level range reasonably tight. We have a min level of 45, but tbh most players are 7x+. Yes we want higher players for our own benefit, but it's also because if we took on a lvl 3x player they would be damn lonely in terms of squadding for quests etc, which is no fun for them.

Take time for yourself. It's really easy to spend your whole time running around helping others, but if you have a good team of officers then you can share the load.

The most important of the above to me are the ones about going for controlled growth and about getting the right officers. I can't stress enough how having the right officers is so important - get this right and you will last well. Get it wrong and you'll be running around the map helping people until you get p1ssed off and quit the fac. Remember this is a game, it's supposed to be equally enjoyable for both the leader and the newest member.

Anyway, if anyone of Sanc server wants to chat about this then feel free to give me a shout ingameb:victory

vbarbie · September 2009

Factions only purpose is to create drama ... End of Discusion.

Can lock and down this now

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver · September 2009

vbarbie wrote: »

Factions only purpose is to create drama ... End of Discusion.

Can lock and down this now

wow...lol drama is everywhere. It's like a famaly, you fight over small things and when you are in bad mood you take it (probably) out on fact-members. If you have drama, deal with it like you would in real. I had few fights with some member and i just put him on my BL. We ignore eachother totaly yet we wont leave the fact (its only an issue between us both). I just laugh when some members leave the faction just because they didn't get along with ONE person.
I help a lot and didn't do any quests since lvl68 because of that. But i don't mind as long they are loyal and stay friends. We have boss-day on weekends. I was once director in this fact but i resigned because of 2 reasons:
1. Especialy new members need a lot of attention and noone except me was helping them. I didnt blame other members but with that they started to help more. Sometimes you need to show your anger and be rude so other members realises how you feel.
2. I need my time to enjoy game as well...i couldnt enjoy it cause i was to busy with helping. It is like a second job, you do what you need to do and that 7 days a week.

So make sure all members, with rank and without are willing to help eachother. Do more fun-events with them. If i see members are getting borred, i call out in WC for fbs or bosses and gather people for it. We get to know eachother and get while that some fun/exp as well.
Check on new members. Guide them..let them meet you. I don't like it at all that some members did never see you, till they ask for fb (i hate facts who do ONLY fbs...exp hoes). We donate for our members mats for TT-Weapons as well and expect same from others. When they do TT they give us mats on free-will. So most of them get their TT-weapon at lvl60.

Good luck

aerynix · September 2009

I cannot really add much more to what everyone else here has written, except have a definite plan of action, and KNOW what you will expect of your officer positions. One very good way to do that is to view the faction structure in the same light as a business, or a military or political model. I helped to define the positions for the last faction I was in, using a retail corporate structure as my analogy with liberal borrowing from similar free enterprise systems to get the idea across to the leader and the members.

Titles should only be given to those who have earned them and can/will do the work to grow the faction. There's nothing that ticks me off more than a dilettante player begging for a title just for the glory of it. Far better to have no marshals or executors now, so that you have the promotions available for those players who have shown themselves committed to growing w/ you.

Aerynix
(umbrella name for my clan of alts on Heaven's Tear)

Danikovich - Heavens Tear · September 2009

Kuaru - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In my opinion, creating a faction should be a bit more hard and a bit more special. Bigger fee in the beginning, lower one for lvl 2 and 3. I see so many level 20 guys leading a faction.. Where's the sense in this? People don't know anymore which faction is really helpful and which one is just like oh-cool-I'm-a-leader..

In my opinion too. You should need level 50 at least to create a faction. It's so STUPID how some people create factions just for the challenge, yeah ok some are capable and get there but some are NOT... well whatever. The point is creating factions should be a lot harder.

New factions - beginning of the end

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