Barbarian greater than Blademaster?
Obilist - Sanctuary
Posts: 12 Arc User
I am currently a level 90 blademaster (gear isnt quite done yet) and have pretty good experience with both PvE and PvP. My brother is a level 90 barbarian so I also know that class pretty well. Recently we have been looking at sage/demon skills and something caught my attention. Level 10 Axe Mastery for BM and Barb is both 60% of attack, however Sage Axe Mastery for BM is only 90% while Barb is 100%. For Demon Axe Mastery for BM its 75% attack and 1% crit whereas Barb is 75% and 2% crit. Ummm ok isn't this backwards? When we think of Barbs we think of tanks and good PvPers but definetly not kuz of the damage aspect. I think its a little unfair that Barbs are getting higher HP per Vit, higher Accuracy(Bloodbath), higher Physical Defence in True Form, better damage skills (Armageddon/Perdition, BMs have no skill that compares), and now to top it off more damage?? Why roll a BM? Stuns? Pfft Barbs have decent stuns themselves and there are so many ways to avoid stuns nowadays (skills, genies, apothecary pots). So an equally geared/statted Barb would have the advantage in just about every aspect over a BM....HP, Def, Acc, hell even better skills, I can live with them having. But better attacks??? There is no reason for them to have higher attack % from mastery...Face it Barbs reading this...you were primarily built to be a tank class, yes i acknowledge your PvP skills, and properly played you can be very good at it. But BMs, a class built to be second or lower in just about every aspect, "jack of all trades", should atleast have the damage advantage over a tank class....Anyways, this has just been my 2 cents, highly doubt anything will be done since this was intentional by the Devs and has been this way even on Malaysian server. Would like to see either an equalling of Mastery or maybe even giving BMs more than Barbs. But lower? Definetly not, equal at the least. Feel free to leave you feedback and keep thread alive, gonna add a poll, plz read my post and all feedback before voting, thanks.
Post edited by Obilist - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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I mostly agree with what you say. Frankly, barbs hit me for about the same damage as bms and they hit a lot faster too.0
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Yeah, like no lie.b:surrender I have a weak bm, but barbs the same lvl as me always have an advantage of some kind. I chose bm because its more fun, and a fairly good tank classb:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Frankly I think this complaint is silly.
most of the abilities that a barb has to buff themselves come at a cost and weaken something else (just like our sutras). Yeah perdition does a lot of damage but it cuts their massive hp in half. There went a tick, now kill them fast.
Anyway... I hold my own against barbs at my level. Maybe I will understand where you're coming from later in the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
This is ****. There's a lot more to balancing classes than comparing axe+hammer mastery.==Sanctuary's Last Demon Barbarian== ... (lol strife)
Off through the new day's mist, I run
Out from the new day's mist, I have come
We shift, pulsing with the earth
Company we keep, roaming the land while you sleep...0 -
Obilist - Sanctuary wrote: »Level 10 Axe Mastery for BM and Barb is both 60% of attack, however Sage Axe Mastery for BM is only 90% while Barb is 100%. For Demon Axe Mastery for BM its 75% attack and 1% crit whereas Barb is 75% and 2% crit.
There's a difference between the Phy Att of a 90 BM & a 90 Barb. U cant really compare both the classes. Even if barbs get 100% more dmg as compared to 90% for BMs, a properly built BM wid maxed Axes/Hammer Mastery will have more dmg than a barb wid the same skill.Obilist - Sanctuary wrote: »I think its a little unfair that Barbs are getting higher HP per Vit, higher Accuracy(Bloodbath), higher Physical Defence in True Form, better damage skills (Armageddon/Perdition, BMs have no skill that compares), and now to top it off more damage?? Why roll a BM? Stuns? Pfft Barbs have decent stuns themselves
Barbs get High Hp per Vit coz they gotta tank, BMs dont get that much coz they r a DD class. Barbs kill things too slow even tho they got high hp. U cant compare there.
Barbs got too **** Accuracy already..and wid maxed BloodBath, the accuracy increases by 200% but at the cost of 16% hp. And even that 200% boost isnt really much coz the actual Accuracy is already low.
90+ BMs wid maxed Phy Def skill of their own have def like 17k..22k..25k...Barbs dont have that high phy Def even in tiger form..except for a barb who has learned Sage Shapeshifting Intensity (increases phy def by 120%)..and that skill costs like 70 mil on my server coz of its extreme rarity..so even there ur point fails..
Again, BMs do much more dmg & crit more often than a barb..dont cry over just the barb's Perdition skill. If ya dunno, it takes away half the barb's hp when casted.
Lastly, talking abt stuns..a BM's stuns have a 100% rate..barbs only got the Mighty Swing skill & tho it hits wid 100% Accuracy, it only has a 50% chance to stun. So cant compare there again.
+1% extra crit for Demon Barbs isnt that a big deal fyi
if ya r a good bm wid decent build & the right combos wid maxed skills..u wont cry abt it
Edit: I forgot one thing..good BMs keep Diamond Sutra maxed...it saves their **** by healing them0 -
Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »There's a difference between the Phy Att of a 90 BM & a 90 Barb. U cant really compare both the classes. Even if barbs get 100% more dmg as compared to 90% for BMs, a properly built BM wid maxed Axes/Hammer Mastery will have more dmg than a barb wid the same skill.
Barbs get High Hp per Vit coz they gotta tank, BMs dont get that much coz they r a DD class. Barbs kill things too slow even tho they got high hp. U cant compare there.
Barbs got too **** Accuracy already..and wid maxed BloodBath, the accuracy increases by 200% but at the cost of 16% hp. And even that 200% boost isnt really much coz the actual Accuracy is already low.
90+ BMs wid maxed Phy Def skill of their own have def like 17k..22k..25k...Barbs dont have that high phy Def even in tiger form..except for a barb who has learned Sage Shapeshifting Intensity (increases phy def by 120%)..and that skill costs like 70 mil on my server coz of its extreme rarity..so even there ur point fails..
Again, BMs do much more dmg & crit more often than a barb..dont cry over just the barb's Perdition skill. If ya dunno, it takes away half the barb's hp when casted.
Lastly, talking abt stuns..a BM's stuns have a 100% rate..barbs only got the Mighty Swing skill & tho it hits wid 100% Accuracy, it only has a 50% chance to stun. So cant compare there again.
+1% extra crit for Demon Barbs isnt that a big deal fyi
if ya r a good bm wid decent build & the right combos wid maxed skills..u wont cry abt it
Edit: I forgot one thing..good BMs keep Diamond Sutra maxed...it saves their **** by healing them
Sigh...Ok if you are going to try to discredit my thread then atleast have your facts straight. Incase you forgot, my brother has a equally leveled barb, and we've played with stats on ecatomb.net as a second source of confirmation. An EQUALLY statted/geared Sage Barb would have more Attack than a BM upon learning mastery. Next... I know Barbs get more HP per vit, i wasnt arguing that they shouldnt, i said they are a tank class and shouldnt have comparable attack to a BM..which they do seeing as how I sit side by side with my brother and watch his hits and we are both the same level...
About accuracy...from the **** you are posting you are most likely vit build, more power to you. That doesnt change the fact that if a Barb wanted to go dex build, and had the same gear, i.e. misty forest rings, as a BM, they could concurrently have more HP and Accuracy than a BM, and the same crit rate too. In your mind you are comparing a Vit Barb to a Dex BM, for the last time, assume they have the same stats.
Next, you can say what you want about how good of a player i am, i will let people who know me decide that for themselves, but you are mistaken. Yes Alter Marrow Physical is a great skill, but if we are talking PvP, you don't alter marrow unless you are mentally challenged. You have no mdef left, a caster class or even a genie could take you out easily with magic.
You also talk about Perdition like i dont know what it does. Yes its an instant charm tick but it doesnt matter much because if a smart barb uses this skill they are using it to take out a robe(s). And a single BM no matter the build/gear would have problems taking down a Barb using pots/genies in 10 seconds(time b4 the charm resets).
Diamond Sutra...awesome skill, love it. But again, i dont see how this is relevant?0 -
yea at level 72 there shouldnt be any difference seeing as how ur masterys give equal %s, its at 92+ when this changes
Lycanthar i would have to agree that there is a lot of class balances that need to be done, I am not trying to say this should take priority , i am simply stating my OPINION and supporting evidence0 -
maybe you should have more str and less vit?0
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Gorsin - Dreamweaver wrote: »maybe you should have more str and less vit?
i actually have really low vit, thats not my point...my point is an equally statted barb who just wanted to be a PvP machine or something would have 10% higher attack or more crit. I shouldnt have to pump all str just to keep up with a tank class0 -
Bms have more dex than barbs, thats why our skills give %crit rate.
Bms are supposed to have low HP and high attack but that doesnt happen, what you see in game is Bms 90+ with 10K HP or more.
barbs lack in damage and our only chance to get extra attack is with those skills.
It was supposed the bilds for Bm being 4 str. and 1 dex every level... but some "smart" people think they are better with high HP and low damage.Happy Sauce face
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Dominatiger - Sanctuary wrote: »Bms have more dex than barbs, thats why our skills give %crit rate.
Bms are supposed to have low HP and high attack but that doesnt happen, what you see in game is Bms 90+ with 10K HP or more.
barbs lack in damage and our only chance to get extra attack is with those skills.
It was supposed the bilds for Bm being 4 str. and 1 dex every level... but some "smart" people think they are better with high HP and low damage.
When the "tanks" in the game hit me for 6k damages, with Armageddon, I really wonder if they are tanks or DDs, lol. I am Arcane, though, but still alot of damage which I don't see BM's hitting me for. b:cry*************************************
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if we hit you for that damage its because we have a huge HP, we sacrifice HP to deal that damage, thats why the skill is so OP in damage, then it comes the weakness, if anyone survive arma we are in trouble.Happy Sauce face
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Manufactured by Konariraiden0 -
BMs should have a higher attack anyway meaning if they have 900 attack(theoretical numbers) and 90% + for the skill, that would be more than a barb with 500 attack and 100% + for the skill. The way they have it now is your second option of evening out the player field.It's too bad but "free to play, pay to win"-sckye
These "updates" are seeming more and more like downgrades.
aryannamage: Not PWE GM's they are all greedy b:angry0 -
Dominatiger - Sanctuary wrote: »Bms have more dex than barbs, thats why our skills give %crit rate.
Bms are supposed to have low HP and high attack but that doesnt happen, what you see in game is Bms 90+ with 10K HP or more.
barbs lack in damage and our only chance to get extra attack is with those skills.
It was supposed the bilds for Bm being 4 str. and 1 dex every level... but some "smart" people think they are better with high HP and low damage.
Finally one of the first valid points from a Barb lol. Yes i strongly disagree with BMs who pump vit or try to get high hp. BUT pumping vit is a CHOICE, they shouldnt get rewarded with more attack because they choose to have higher hp. That doesnt balance out, it gives barbs high hp and good attack and gives bm lower hp and lower attack.
Coldsteele , your class doesnt affect damage at all, with the same strength and the same weapons and the same level a Barb and BM would have same attack unless they are 92+ and have mastery.0 -
Sorry, I didnt meant to disregard ur thread..but thing is, there r various types of wep categories made for a reason. Barbs stick to Dual Axes/Polehammers coz those r the only weps barbs can use..thats not the case wid BMs..try out the swords or other weps..go as per those builds, max those masteries & u gonna have high firepower + faster kills for sure..Dual Axes build isnt really the end-game thing in game. For barbs maybe(coz they havent got much choice), but surely not for BMs..there r many good Sword/ Dual Blade, etc. molds wid good stats at end game too0
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Obilist - Sanctuary wrote: »Finally one of the first valid points from a Barb lol. Yes i strongly disagree with BMs who pump vit or try to get high hp. BUT pumping vit is a CHOICE, they shouldnt get rewarded with more attack because they choose to have higher hp. That doesnt balance out, it gives barbs high hp and good attack and gives bm lower hp and lower attack.
Coldsteele , your class doesnt affect damage at all, with the same strength and the same weapons and the same level a Barb and BM would have same attack unless they are 92+ and have mastery.
b:surrender also bms got heaven's flame, add that with a genie's Ts and there u get HUGE dmg.... if a barb miss pred its usualy end of fight so u dont see them spamming it like hell unlike a bm who can spam there heave's flame = 100% more dmg??? and if that crits thats 200% more and with a zerker there u have 400% more dmg or so b:bye and bm with marrows have HEAPS more mage def then barbs and also phy def.. there goes my 2 centb:laugh0 -
This supports my saying "Axe BMs are overrated" b:victory
Seriously dude Multi wep BMs can match any barb. Every wep has its own advantage and the BM class has the opportunity to use 4 different weps. I use Lance, Swords, and axes and find that all 3 excel in something that the others don't. Any BM who only uses 1 wep is robbing themselves of 3/4 of the whole **** BM skill tree.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
See its black and white now. It means I quit! How poetic and stuff.0 -
I only read the first message, I got to say that, yes barbs are much better. -.-[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] b:shocked OMG HERB!!!!!!0
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Raydoit - Sanctuary wrote: »This supports my saying "Axe BMs are overrated" b:victory
axe bms in pvp = wannabe barb
axe bms in pve = ownage solo zhennerOne corn to rule them all and in the darkness cream them
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Im so sorry but BM vs Barb and Barb vs BM = Boring charm ticking stalemate in PvP, so who is best? i think its ballanced, they are tough as each other0
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Bm's have more skills and more of a variety when it comes with weapons. We need the plus for axe+hammer because you get mastery of fists, axes, swords, and polearms. And our best attack takes half our life.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sounds about right0 -
Im so sorry but BM vs Barb and Barb vs BM = Boring charm ticking stalemate in PvP, so who is best? i think its ballanced, they are tough as each other
b:laugh This is mostly true, but there are exceptions. Usually when I fight barbs one of us will get a crit and after a charm tick we will just slam down on the other one with spark eruption + genie skills. It's possible to kill each other. Trust me.The_Champion - Sanctuary wrote: »Bm's have more skills and more of a variety when it comes with weapons. We need the plus for axe+hammer because you get mastery of fists, axes, swords, and polearms. And our best attack takes half our life.
qft[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
a proper barb will have more vit than str and little to no dex
there goes our accuracy and crit rate; yeah we have all the hp in the world but we hit for less and less often. blood bath doesnt help much because of our naturally low accuracy as is. my lvl 53 BM has more accuracy than my 80 barb with maxed BB.
a proper BM should have equal to or more dex than a barb, never less. also more str and less vit than a barb. your job is to DD, not take the hits, so naturally you will be hitting harder. you should have more dex so your crit is higher already and you get more accuracy and avoid per point of dex than a barb does anyways.
our perdition makes us open to be killed easy after using, so dont complain
if you are a Bm wiht the same stats of a barb... somethig is wrong. either your brother is lackin a lot of hp, or your **** isnt taking advantage of what your character is good for
Edit:
Funniest thing i read all day... the poll
"Leave it as is(don't choose this just kuz ur a barb, consider the bigger picture)"
Maybe u need to look at the bigger picture; reroll a barb and tell us what you think afterwards. You're brother doesnt count for you... experience all 90 levels of it purely firsthand and try looking at all the skills of both sides and not just focus on a few. bigger picture buddy... bigger picture0 -
Obilist - Sanctuary wrote: »i actually have really low vit, thats not my point...my point is an equally statted barb who just wanted to be a PvP machine or something would have 10% higher attack or more crit. I shouldnt have to pump all str just to keep up with a tank class
im new and starting today but if imright the reason why the blademaster is a slower and weaker then the barbarian isbecause the blademaster is probly made for tanking and the barbarain is made for supportive meleing if im wrong dont be mean to me im just takeing a guess here b:shutup0 -
candieraver wrote: »im new and starting today but if imright the reason why the blademaster is a slower and weaker then the barbarian isbecause the blademaster is probly made for tanking and the barbarain is made for supportive meleing if im wrong dont be mean to me im just takeing a guess here b:shutup
Scratch and reverse that dude.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Reevoive - Lost City wrote: »a proper barb will have more vit than str and little to no dex
there goes our accuracy and crit rate; yeah we have all the hp in the world but we hit for less and less often. blood bath doesnt help much because of our naturally low accuracy as is. my lvl 53 BM has more accuracy than my 80 barb with maxed BB.
a proper BM should have equal to or more dex than a barb, never less. also more str and less vit than a barb. your job is to DD, not take the hits, so naturally you will be hitting harder. you should have more dex so your crit is higher already and you get more accuracy and avoid per point of dex than a barb does anyways.
our perdition makes us open to be killed easy after using, so dont complain
if you are a Bm wiht the same stats of a barb... somethig is wrong. either your brother is lackin a lot of hp, or your **** isnt taking advantage of what your character is good for
Edit:
Funniest thing i read all day... the poll
"Leave it as is(don't choose this just kuz ur a barb, consider the bigger picture)"
Maybe u need to look at the bigger picture; reroll a barb and tell us what you think afterwards. You're brother doesnt count for you... experience all 90 levels of it purely firsthand and try looking at all the skills of both sides and not just focus on a few. bigger picture buddy... bigger picture
The "proper" Barb you describe is total tanker/pve build. BORING.
You talk like there's only 1 possible or optimal build for barb or BM. Especially when talking about pvp, I feel there's a lot of customization to be had in both classes, and they can all be viable depending on your skill level/play style.
Like I've said before in this thread, there are a large number of things to consider when comparing classes. It might be more useful to breakdown, analyze and compare builds rather than classes.==Sanctuary's Last Demon Barbarian== ... (lol strife)
Off through the new day's mist, I run
Out from the new day's mist, I have come
We shift, pulsing with the earth
Company we keep, roaming the land while you sleep...0 -
um, check the damage on most bm skills compared to most barb skills. bm skills hit alot harder, so there u go.0
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Reevoive - Lost City wrote: »a proper barb will have more vit than str and little to no dexthere goes our accuracy and crit rate; yeah we have all the hp in the world but we hit for less and less often. blood bath doesnt help much because of our naturally low accuracy as is. my lvl 53 BM has more accuracy than my 80 barb with maxed BB.
a proper BM should have equal to or more dex than a barb, never less. also more str and less vit than a barb. your job is to DD, not take the hits, so naturally you will be hitting harder. you should have more dex so your crit is higher already and you get more accuracy and avoid per point of dex than a barb does anyways.
our perdition makes us open to be killed easy after using, so dont complain
if you are a Bm wiht the same stats of a barb... somethig is wrong. either your brother is lackin a lot of hp, or your **** isnt taking advantage of what your character is good for
Edit:
Funniest thing i read all day... the poll
"Leave it as is(don't choose this just kuz ur a barb, consider the bigger picture)"
Maybe u need to look at the bigger picture; reroll a barb and tell us what you think afterwards. You're brother doesnt count for you... experience all 90 levels of it purely firsthand and try looking at all the skills of both sides and not just focus on a few. bigger picture buddy... bigger picture
hmm more vit then str i wonder can you wear your latest equipments i doubt so not just failits impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
just try to be a good person
english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts0 -
1. If I wanted to DD I would've been an archer or wizard...
2. "spam heaven's flame" reply = ha! yes... you can soooo spam something that costs 2 spark with a 30s cooldown. You'll be lucky to use it 2 times in a fight... not that I fight
3. penetration uh... if you use ToP just before penetration, you'll basically have god mode for 5 seconds and then go like "oh no! he's going to kill me in 5 seconds! b:shocked
4. bms can't physical marrow in PvP now btw because of genies... which will take out 3/4 of our hp with thunderstorm if we do
5. I think the person who made this thread was thinking that if you make a DD barb with about that same stats as a Bm's, then the barb will do more damage. (I bet you're thinking "oh my god! a barb doesn't have to just tank?" in your head right now) That shouldn't happen because a barb is supposed to be a tanking class (not must be)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] yay
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