No More Random Invites

Cenminator - Dreamweaver
Cenminator - Dreamweaver Posts: 160 Arc User
edited September 2009 in General Discussion
seriously wtf is up with this. i don't mind helping people out but why can't they say somethin? all it takes is a "hey, can you help me real quick?", or "can i squad with you?". i don't accept random invites and people get mad when i "refuse to join", then start crying in chat or trying to steal my kills. learn to use chat and ask if you need help, don't just expect us to join you and help because we are there.
Post edited by Cenminator - Dreamweaver on
«1

Comments

  • Zetarana - Heavens Tear
    Zetarana - Heavens Tear Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I think this can Work for everybody's benefit...

    If I am grinding Mobs for a quest, and I see someone start in on the same Mobs I toss them an invite. Really, we can get through the Quest Mobs quicker and in turn, turn in the Quest quicker. Which means I can get back to grinding on Mobs I choose to grind on, which in most cases is not what I need to kill for quests.

    Now, with the amounts needed, rising with the levels, it makes sense to party up for them to get them out of the way quicker.

    Like Yesterday, I needed to kill those Towerlings by Wraithsgate, and I invited others to join as they arrived, ppl came and went as needed (and came back again when they got the next quest to kill Towerlings AND Defenders) - I would pass leader to the person who had the most to go, and the chain would continue.

    Met some really nice ppl and had a good time.

    Dbl XP weekend didn't hurt either... =)
    Zetarana - Arcane Veno
    Nephandus - Arcane Wizard
    Faction: Nocturne
  • Cenminator - Dreamweaver
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    the problem is not squadding up with other people. what annoys me to no end is them not having the courtesy to ask instead of just expecting help
  • Dire_Straits - Dreamweaver
    Dire_Straits - Dreamweaver Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Sorry for hijacking the thread to post a different but related point.
    Same goes for random faction invitesb:sad
  • Poison - Heavens Tear
    Poison - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, I always ask "Anyone want to team" when I run into a limited spawn quest area.

    Random faction invites are even worse. When I went factionless for a bit in my mid 70's very few factions actually asked me first, the rest just tried to invite me as I was on WQ.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cenminator - Dreamweaver
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Dire_Straits - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sorry for hijacking the thread to post a different but related point.
    Same goes for random faction invitesb:sad

    not really different at all, that is just as annoying
  • calavera
    calavera Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I agree that in most situations getting ninja'd can be very annoying, but there is such a thing as context... If you're out on the field and have accidentally ksed, or been ksed, by someone a couple of times, a squad invitation from them is pretty self explanatory. Some people don't like to chit chat a lot when they're concentrated on killing as many mobs as they can. A good example would be a squad made up of randoms that really aren't talking to each other, just questing. Convos can be limited to "What kind/how many?" and there have been plenty of times i was happy to squad with people without having them ask me what my birthday is...
  • Centetric - Lost City
    Centetric - Lost City Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    u know u can always go to the game system settings and click ignore squad invites.
    SO yea its good to do that sometimes when u get to many squad invites.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Through the darkness light can always emerge, it is only when the unwilling come upon this light that fear takes over. Emerging from this darkness takes more then courage, it takes faith in ones own mind and more importantly in ones own heart. To deny the light is to deny yourself the feeling of true happiness and true peace within your own soul. Denying your own happiness and your own soul is denying all that one has to live for."
    ~RedsRose
  • Absoluth - Heavens Tear
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear Posts: 764 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    You're complaining about absolutely nothing. If you dont want a squad, simply dont click on the '!' box. Its that simple and its not gonna affect you in ANY way. However, if you dont like spending 1h to do something you could do in 30 mins with a partner, random squad offers are the best thing ever.
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    the problem is not squadding up with other people. what annoys me to no end is them not having the courtesy to ask instead of just expecting help
    Dont forget they're helping you the same way you would be helping them.
    PWI:
    "Free to play. Pay to win"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • XylolyX - Heavens Tear
    XylolyX - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I'm pretty much an exp hog so I rarely squad with anyone I don't know. I am happy to trade buffs and stay to my own corner/section of the grinding area however. I do appreciate a msg asking if I want to squad first.

    I'm all for helping another person with a quest though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Lvl10XBarb
    Lvl10XArcher
    lvl10XAssassin
  • Centetric - Lost City
    Centetric - Lost City Posts: 1,528 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    im pretty sure this works
    Centetric - Lost City wrote: »
    u know u can always go to the game system settings and click ignore squad invites.
    SO yea its good to do that sometimes when u get to many squad invites.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Through the darkness light can always emerge, it is only when the unwilling come upon this light that fear takes over. Emerging from this darkness takes more then courage, it takes faith in ones own mind and more importantly in ones own heart. To deny the light is to deny yourself the feeling of true happiness and true peace within your own soul. Denying your own happiness and your own soul is denying all that one has to live for."
    ~RedsRose
  • Cenminator - Dreamweaver
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You're complaining about absolutely nothing. If you dont want a squad, simply dont click on the '!' box. Its that simple and its not gonna affect you in ANY way. However, if you dont like spending 1h to do something you could do in 30 mins with a partner, random squad offers are the best thing ever.


    Dont forget they're helping you the same way you would be helping them.

    yes it gets my mob count done a little bit faster but the xp loss while squadded with someone isn't worth it to me. and don't give me all that bs about "you kill faster so you get more" most people who give random invites do so because they can't kill fast enough on their own so they benefit while i lose out.
  • Fellinia - Dreamweaver
    Fellinia - Dreamweaver Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    When I get random party invites, if the loot is set to random, I'll usually decline and then tell them to set it for free loot and I'll accept the invitation. I have yet to get someone to do this successfully though. I wonder why..../sarcasm My idea of a good party isn't killing stuff faster than you, without your help, and lining your pockets all at the same time.


    And why is that the invites always come from people you don't need help from? It always seems like if you are doing fine and handling your business, here comes all the party invites. b:laugh Maybe I'm a cynic, but I think most of those random invites are people seeing you mowing stuff down 3x faster than they are and going "oh hey, lemme see if I can get in on this!".


    As far as faction invites, it's a sad state of affairs when you have to create a faction just to store your characters in to avoid the endless invites. God help you if you are a factionless cleric or barb new to Arch. Faction invite toggle for 2010!
  • Dustinmurphy - Harshlands
    Dustinmurphy - Harshlands Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I've been offered random invites when doing quests and stuff, but most of my friends ask me before they send me a invite but it doesn't bother me a quest is a quest which means you can come back and finish
    if you get tired of getting random invites sent to you delete them off your friends list.
    I have never done that though because it's like idk being a **** hole about it.
    If anniversary pack threads keep getting made I'll keep trolling them until there isn't anymore!b:bye
  • Zetarana - Heavens Tear
    Zetarana - Heavens Tear Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    yes it gets my mob count done a little bit faster but the xp loss while squadded with someone isn't worth it to me. and don't give me all that bs about "you kill faster so you get more" most people who give random invites do so because they can't kill fast enough on their own so they benefit while i lose out.

    Honestly, anyone @ Ninety-Something, why would they even be in the same area as us lower-level ppl who would want/need or just plain would like some help.

    I would imagine these people would be in TT's or Lunar or Frost.

    As far as "You Kill Faster..." What I am trying to convey is that If you Kill Quest Mobs faster you can get back on to the Mobs that either give more experience or that (You) like to grind on, with or without an XP Scroll.

    Chances are, Quest Mobs, aren't the best match to what we can kill Faster or Drop what we need/want.

    Also, I want to clarify, I am not talking about when you are just standing in a safe zone and ppl just ask you to squad, that's definately annoying.
    At least in the "Field" it can be a fair assumption of what is being asked for...


    Oh and for the person who said they would prefer FREE to RANDOM...

    My Wiz does not move very fast, nor do Clerics... It is not in our best interest to accept/enter a FREE Loot model group.

    FREE is better for people who are part of a group of people that Squad together on a regular basis or Faction groups. (IMO)
    Zetarana - Arcane Veno
    Nephandus - Arcane Wizard
    Faction: Nocturne
  • Alexeno - Sanctuary
    Alexeno - Sanctuary Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    if you're in a quest mob area, and you receive a squad invite, you're being asked for help. seeing it any other way is your own mind distorting reality. and also, if most people are like me, the reason they don't ask anything in the chatbox, is because they are used to highlvls ignoring anything they say in chat, and figure their best chance at teaming up is just hitting the squad button (don't try to defend against this, in general, 80+ ignores anyone lower than them in level. the random exception of course, but as a general rule)

    accepting the invite provides the following benefits:
    1) quest gets done twice as fast, and yea, you only get ~1/2 the exp you would've gotten, since exp in parties is almost halved (even split between squadmates, with a "squad boost", so overall more exp than solo)
    2) quest being done twice as fast means you can get to your mobs faster, the ones you prefer grinding on that give more exp/better drops than your quest mobs

    ignoring the invite tells the other person a couple things:
    1) you are a typical highlvl who won't help others unless it benefits themselves, or is done their way
    2) that you are attempting to solo the multiplayer game - fail

    just my two cents
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Hell hath no fury like Alexeno trying to prove his point" -Mizuoni
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Alexeno - Sanctuary wrote: »
    if you're in a quest mob area, and you receive a squad invite, you're being asked for help. seeing it any other way is your own mind distorting reality. and also, if most people are like me, the reason they don't ask anything in the chatbox, is because they are used to highlvls ignoring anything they say in chat, and figure their best chance at teaming up is just hitting the squad button (don't try to defend against this, in general, 80+ ignores anyone lower than them in level. the random exception of course, but as a general rule)

    accepting the invite provides the following benefits:
    1) quest gets done twice as fast, and yea, you only get ~1/2 the exp you would've gotten, since exp in parties is almost halved (even split between squadmates, with a "squad boost", so overall more exp than solo)
    2) quest being done twice as fast means you can get to your mobs faster, the ones you prefer grinding on that give more exp/better drops than your quest mobs

    ignoring the invite tells the other person a couple things:
    1) you are a typical highlvl who won't help others unless it benefits themselves, or is done their way
    2) that you are attempting to solo the multiplayer game - fail

    just my two cents

    At low levels, which is really when you get the most spam invites... It's actually worse to accept them. You make money, and EXP by doing the quests, and killing those mobs. If you kill 20 mobs, and get EXP for each mob, it gives you more than killing 20 mobs, and getting half the EXP, because your quests will run out. Period. And once they did, all that EXP you lost because you joined someone's squad comes back to bite you, because now, you have to grind harder, and longer, to make up for the EXP you could have gotten while questing.

    There are very, very few quests you have to squad up on, regardless of class. The exceptions being FBs, and Bosses. I play a Veno and a Wizard, IE, the "Easiest and Hardest Classes"... According to the forums, anyway, and have never had to squad up with anyone to accomplish a simple mob killing quest. There are some TIMED ones, that are beneficial to squad up with, but go kill X amount, and come back? Just solo the stupid things. Squad to grind, if you want, but solo to quest.
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I never EVER accept random invites, under any circumstance. I usually accept people asking for help because I'm polite, but I have no problem being "a typical high level" by completely ignoring your invite and telling you to gtfo if you complain.
    Reasons being.

    -Half drops. Random can be messed up sometimes too, sometimes I can do all the work and end up with 30% of the items.
    -I work at my own pace. I meditate, stop to msn and guild chat a lot, fight carefully to avoid pot wastage. Having some random moron spam gogogo like an idiot and going on at me to kill faster until I'm being slave drives annoys me. And if I refuse, i'm a "nub who can't fight". -.-
    -Bad party members. Some people can't fight. Usually why they're asking for help. These people will either die alot, agro 5 mobs at once, get you killed, sit there doing nothing or kill at unbelievably slow.
    -Annoying party members. Nothing is worse than being squaded with a 13 year old brat who spams you with nonsense and stupid questions, asks for help with a hundred other things and verbally abuses you if you don't do everything they say. -.-
    -Wasted time. Often I may be 3/4 through my quest, get an invite and be forced to do 3/4 longer finishing the other guys quest. If you expect that much of my free time, you better be asking my politely instead of sending ninja invites.

    Pretty much I find ingame 8 in 10 people are complete asses. Accepting a random invite is an 80% chance at giving yourself hell. Accepting a polite request is pretty much guaranteed to be helping a nice person. I play the game for my own enjoyment, I am not compelled to help every single random person out there because they're too lazy.
  • Malei - Sanctuary
    Malei - Sanctuary Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Pretty much I find ingame 8 in 10 people are complete asses. Accepting a random invite is an 80% chance at giving yourself hell. Accepting a polite request is pretty much guaranteed to be helping a nice person. I play the game for my own enjoyment, I am not compelled to help every single random person out there because they're too lazy.

    ^Friggin' this.

    You are not required to help someone that ninja squads you. Before you assume that the "typical higher lvls are just being typical higher lvls and thus asses", take a look at his points and look hard.

    People who usually ninja squad you act as though you have to help them in their quest. I have learned how to not accept such invites. Before, I would accept them and it there and try to kill as much as I could while keeping up with their count. The most dialogue I ever got from them?

    "Go. I have 13 more. Gogo."

    or even better.

    "Can you help me with this, and this, and this?" Next when I either have to log or have to move on to grind. I don't mind giving you my time then, but even I need time alone.

    Yes, call me whatever you like, but it is the truth. I have accepted people who have taken the time to kindly whisper me "Can you please help me?" Hell, I will stop killing to tell my hubby to invite them to party, or to add me to their party so I can help. I haven't refused a help that was genuinelly asked for. Nor will I in the future. When I need help, I take the time to whisper. Sometimes, I'm ignored. Sometimes, I'm not. I just move on.

    The least you can do is be polite and ask.
  • Danikovich - Heavens Tear
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Now talking about random faction invites... I'd any time prefer random faction invites because I just have to click NO than like when someone comes and asks me "Why are you factionless?" ... Wtf I dont have to answer you that, can I have some privacy? I never came in asked someone why are they in a faction! And yes I'm rude to whoever asks me that kind of question. You're warned. /end rant.
    Like they say in my country:
    When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    If im feeling lazy i accept it lol

    on noob alts in noob town on noob quests, i will accept it.

    Never on this character tho. I need all the exp and loot i can grab b:pleased
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Now talking about random faction invites... I'd any time prefer random faction invites because I just have to click NO than like when someone comes and asks me "Why are you factionless?" ... Wtf I dont have to answer you that, can I have some privacy? I never came in asked someone why are they in a faction! And yes I'm rude to whoever asks me that kind of question. You're warned. /end rant.

    Lol yeh I've got that before :/ I had a factionless time from level 60-70 and a few times I refused an offer to join I got a full interrogation O.o "why?", "I wouldn't last in the game with out a faction", "I need a faction to do bosses", "why am I playing an mmo if i'm playing solo", ended up by me getting informed that I was a nub and I could "have fun going nowhere".

    Funnily enough you can tell a good faction from a bad in this way. People harassing you are often desperate. I found the more well known factions politely offered, then wished me good luck and fun with the game and went on with their business when I declined.
  • kaboro
    kaboro Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Dont forget they're helping you the same way you would be helping them.

    Unwanted and unasked for help, dont forget this minor detail. If you jumped to carry an old lady's bags without a word, she would most likely call the police.
    Its not a big deal in the game, and i understand the context and all, but it still falls in the category of kiddie behaviour.

    Oh and while we at it, let me add the duel invites to the list lol.
  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    seriously wtf is up with this. i don't mind helping people out but why can't they say somethin? all it takes is a "hey, can you help me real quick?", or "can i squad with you?". i don't accept random invites and people get mad when i "refuse to join", then start crying in chat or trying to steal my kills. learn to use chat and ask if you need help, don't just expect us to join you and help because we are there.

    I hate that, too. I can't stand it went someone just randomly sends me an invite without even asking for my help first. But what I really can't stand is when some random person sends me an invite, I hit 'No", they send it again, 5 seconds later, I hit "No" again, but yet they STILL send it a 3rd time. And yet again I hit "No". I mean, my goodness, if I say NO the first time and NO the second, it's definately going to be HECK NO the 3rd time, or any other time after that as long as it's a random invite. Seriously, they need to ask first and not just expect help to be handed to them on a silver plate.
    >.<
  • Poison - Heavens Tear
    Poison - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,444 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    kaboro wrote: »
    Oh and while we at it, let me add the duel invites to the list lol.

    Oh... oh... and unwanted carry invites.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Sometimes I will send an invite to another person killing the same quest mobs as me. why?...allow me to explain.

    I was on a quest to kill 85 Firebath Phoenixes. Now, the spawn is pretty small, and my air pet (windwalking pig) is still a few levels behind me. Suddenly, without warning, another veno comes down with her nix, and clears the entire spawn in less than a minute.

    I sent this veno a squad invite. Not because I wanted to leech off her fast kills, but because she was killing so fast, I couldn't get any kills myself. My invite was promptly denied, and I had to wait almost 45 minutes for this veno to finish decimating the entire spawn.

    So, when someone sends you an invite, don't deny them on such pretenses. Especially if they were there first.
  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Poison - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Oh... oh... and unwanted carry invites.
    Eww.... Unwanted carry invites... That just makes wanna scream "****! EWW GET YOUR HANDS OFF ME!" b:avoid
    >.<
  • MyuMyu - Harshlands
    MyuMyu - Harshlands Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Despite from all the nice arguments (and I agree on some Post here), Cenminator doesn't questioning about EXP or Loot, she just questioning why there are ppl who didn't say anything and just invite her out of the blue.
    Cenminator - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    seriously wtf is up with this. i don't mind helping people out but why can't they say somethin? all it takes is a "hey, can you help me real quick?", or "can i squad with you?". i don't accept random invites and people get mad when i "refuse to join", then start crying in chat or trying to steal my kills. learn to use chat and ask if you need help, don't just expect us to join you and help because we are there.

    It's not nice, and when we refuse those invitation, some ppl out there will just assume "you don't want to Team up with me? you're my enemy then ! Go die !"
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I sent this veno a squad invite. Not because I wanted to leech off her fast kills, but because she was killing so fast, I couldn't get any kills myself. My invite was promptly denied, and I had to wait almost 45 minutes for this veno to finish decimating the entire spawn.

    So, when someone sends you an invite, don't deny them on such pretenses. Especially if they were there first.

    ^
    This.
    Did you just invite her out of the blue, or you PM her saying "Hi, can we team up?"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sometimes I will send an invite to another person killing the same quest mobs as me. why?...allow me to explain.

    I was on a quest to kill 85 Firebath Phoenixes. Now, the spawn is pretty small, and my air pet (windwalking pig) is still a few levels behind me. Suddenly, without warning, another veno comes down with her nix, and clears the entire spawn in less than a minute.

    I sent this veno a squad invite. Not because I wanted to leech off her fast kills, but because she was killing so fast, I couldn't get any kills myself. My invite was promptly denied, and I had to wait almost 45 minutes for this veno to finish decimating the entire spawn.

    So, when someone sends you an invite, don't deny them on such pretenses. Especially if they were there first.
    wow rude much.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • Kephras - Heavens Tear
    Kephras - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Say Something.
    Whisper usually works best - at least that way I'll look for you.
    Typically I don't want help, but I don't mind giving it.
    However if you don't say anything, don't expect a response.
  • Foxx - Heavens Tear
    Foxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Feel free to reject my group invite on principle, but then don't complain when I start dominating the spawns with my phoenix. I intend to get my quest done as fast as possible, and if that means fighting you for spawns, then so be it. You made that choice.

Categories