Point of FF instance is to lose 500k?

The only problem with the was FF was is that the difficulty was too high for level 85 gear. TT3-1 is where you get most of the mats for your TT90 gear, yet tt3-1 is by far easier than what FF used to be. (Both bosses and the trash mobs)

I suspect I could level the same criticism of lunar glade vs tt99 gear, but I have yet to experience much beyond 3-1. I did do some of the earlier bosses in tt3-3 in a 2 man party, and even though we had a couple of careless deaths, it was far far easier than having to clear our way past the insularum shoveals in cave 2 of lunar glade.

Balance is screwy in so many areas of this game. How is it a tt2-1 is much harder than any of the tt3-3 bosses without monsters on high? ie how is it a level 70 instance has a harder boss than a level 100 instance, and yet nothing has been done or is likely to be done about it?

You would think with the bazillions they are making from the problem gamblers in this game they could spend a little more time fixing things.

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only problem with the was FF was is that the difficulty was too high for level 85 gear. TT3-1 is where you get most of the mats for your TT90 gear, yet tt3-1 is by far easier than what FF used to be. (Both bosses and the trash mobs)

I suspect I could level the same criticism of lunar glade vs tt99 gear, but I have yet to experience much beyond 3-1. I did do some of the earlier bosses in tt3-3 in a 2 man party, and even though we had a couple of careless deaths, it was far far easier than having to clear our way past the insularum shoveals in cave 2 of lunar glade.

Balance is screwy in so many areas of this game. How is it a tt2-1 is much harder than any of the tt3-3 bosses without monsters on high? ie how is it a level 70 instance has a harder boss than a level 100 instance, and yet nothing has been done or is likely to be done about it?

You would think with the bazillions they are making from the problem gamblers in this game they could spend a little more time fixing things.

I have to agree with you a lot there. however I've never done a TT passed 3-1 so I really haven't had much experience in that area. The shoveals are a handful and that valley took us forever just because of those shoveals. Even though we made it to the boss in there... it was still too many deaths, lots of charms/pots used, etc. Granted we had drops to help pay for it more so than the current FF...

But I agree with you Foxx, the difficulty for the old FF squad was harsh. We made it to the first boss in the group I had and we wiped. I will admit we weren't very high leveled at the time because we didn't realize the severity of the aoe's and other things. To me, TT is mostly time consuming more so than difficult in a way. Simply because the higher you go, the more mats (and more expensive of a mat) you need for the gear. Lunar and FF (the old one) is more difficult as far as mobs/bosses, requires more time than TT for each piece, and the general collecting of the mats for gear. I commend all of those that have gotten their gear before this event from those places. You have my respect.

@Brael: I can see where this would really inconvience a squad like that. I hope they do something to make it more cost-efficient to run a full FF aside from the little things we currently get. It wouldn't be so bad if gold wasn't so skewered (for those dang chest of coins lol) and the flawless gems were worth what they used to be. Then we'd see a little more flow of coins I'm sure.

As it stands, even though the squad I've gone with these past couple times has been excellent... I really don't think I'll go much more except to help others finish their quests. The repairs get to be too much for everyone, as do potion/charms costs, etc.

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

So basically what you're asking is a DDoS attack on the ticketing system because you don't like frostwalk rewards. Great plan.

EDIT: Am I the one being trolled? I just posted a reasoned argument, something is very wrong here. b:lipcurl

The internets is not like a truck it is a series of tubes dammit!

Now you have been trolled.


To Zoe:...Yeah...I get that sort of argument from time to time but it is BS in a way. Sure, Helping people can be its own reward but on the other hand I do not always have the coin to maintain myself and helping people go through a totally OPTIONAL dungeon to my own detriment sounds like a BAD deal which is why I avoid TT & BH quests. I have even helped a Faction Member through an FB after they lost their Tabs somehow. I did not care about losing the Tab reward but they needed the FB done unlike in this case. Also not everyone finds dungeons to be FUN in the first place. For me they are a stress fest which =/= Fun.


To Roojie: ...Where have you been all this time!? Oh wait...Lost City...ok...nvm good defense. I often feel I am the ONLY person on my ENTIRE server who can do a good cost analysis on things like TT, FF, BH, etc...The only one with the sense to say "Well you COULD do that hard thing and likely get killed and spend X to get Z Rewards OR you could do this easier thing and not die while spending Y to get better than Z rewards when X > Y...So why are you doing that first option again?"...I also am feeling your own ponderance about what the point really is. I play because I like messing around with wild builds and new skills so this stuff largely does not effect me but it seems really bad even from an outside observer. The message seems to be: Never work for anything in this game because eventually it will be on sale, so just wait and buy it then.

I know that last part is harsh but honestly...I cannot help but feel that has become a bit of the motto. I would hate to be a more Achievement based player in this game.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you can't afford repairs at your level, or any level for that matter, you have a major problem with how you play the game.

you're not being fair. certainly because your class takes the least damage among all.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you only do things to make a profit or break even, you have a problem with how you play the game. It means you clearly care too much about yourself and not at all about others.

his idea is very simple: great challenge = great reward.

if you ignore the challenge and the reward and go only to help people... I've got to say you're happy for being exploited = submissive personality.

First let's clarify things here. PWI did in fact improve FF. They did a great job and made it very cost effective.........for them. Now you have yet another reason to spend RL money to get hammers and open chests. Just think. Before the update this wasn't even an option for FF. They even made it easier to complete it so eh boxes come more frequently. Add in the fact that it's a charm sink and yet more reason to spend RL money. Good for PWI. These guys are geniuses. They're so smart maybe I should have had them pick my Fantasy Football Team for me. Instead I'm left hoping Brady can connect with Moss tonight for a couple of TDs after a season off and not biting my nails to the quick thinking Moss is going to be a complete head case and crumple like a house of cards.

In any event there's a lot of **** being slung around here. I mean first of all it's a game. Everyone likes to say "You're playing the game for the wrong reason....etc...", "You're playing your char wrong...."......"You're doing this all wrong"....."look at me I'm great. I help everyone out........." Etc. Fun fun fun. But hey who's to tell me right? I mean I play for fun, to relax, kick back some, maybe have a challenge. Who knows? Maybe I play as yet another excuse to slack off at work. Regardless I know I don't play for anyone else.

So if I'm doing something I look to see how it effects me first because I've invested real life money in it and certainly RL time. As long as that decision doesn't bring me down the road of having a crappy time then money and time well spent in my book, but I certainly didn't put money and time in so someone else could get all kinds of cool stuff while I get ****. I mean that would be like doing this for a job. Working for da man. Don't get me wrong. As a cleric I go on plenty of runs I have no need for, burning my charm and fly around to rez people every now and again or buff them. I do it because it's a calculated decision that 1) I've got nothing better to do and 2) It will be a sufficient enough distraction from anything else that's happening and 3) maybe along the course of the way I'll enjoy myself. Who knows.

Also knowing that this game requires a high amount of RL and/or in game currency to have a good time (You kneed one or the other or both - Can't deny that) then what kind of reward in a monetary or itemized sense is important. If I have more in game money I'm going to be able to repair my gear, get new skills, buy more items, etc. all enhancing my experience. If I have no in game money I'm left grinding, usually alone because no one wants an uncharmed or poorly geared cleric hanging around.

So if the rewards are **** AND it's going to cost me a ton to do then it better be a really really really good time. I'm talking like being locked in a closet with Angelina Jolie and a bottle of olive oil for 90 minutes good time. If I open my eyes for one second in that closet and see Kathy Bates I'm gonna be pissed. I'd don't think that's greedy at all. I think that's using good judgment.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you can't afford repairs at your level, or any level for that matter, you have a major problem with how you play the game.

If you only do things to make a profit or break even, you have a problem with how you play the game. It means you clearly care too much about yourself and not at all about others.

the right to be wrong.

when I was a student, we had a disscussion with classmates about: "the right to be wrong"

At the end we agreed that we all have the right to be wrong unless you are trying to get others wrong too (or you are affecting others with your wrongs).b:laugh

You are wrong and it is wrong that you are trying to influence others to be wrong too.

"If you can't afford repairs at your level, or any level for that matter, you have a major problem with how you play the game."

its is wrong not being able to place food on your table? could it be the place you live in has a bad economy not suitable for you? guess what? thats the case in most of our undeveloped world. In most cases, the problem is not the individual.

I was living in a poor country, I went to north america and I dont have that problem anymore.


"If you only do things to make a profit or break even, you have a problem with how you play the game. It means you clearly care too much about yourself and not at all about others"

OMG. I guess we all help out in one way or another. but keep in mind, the most you do, the most likely you will not being able to afford repairs lol and then:

"you can't afford repairs at your level, or any level for that matter, you have a major problem with how you play the game."

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you can't afford repairs at your level, or any level for that matter, you have a major problem with how you play the game.

If you only do things to make a profit or break even, you have a problem with how you play the game. It means you clearly care too much about yourself and not at all about others.

My squad more or less runs together a lot so we just split costs at this point. Party expenses came to about 9 million, drops came to 500k (actually, 550k with the coin we got too). Split up that's 1410667 coin. Everyone had enough to afford that, some more easily than others. That's the type of coin however that's going to add up quickly when doing a few runs a week.

The place needs more coin drops when clearing to help offset costs. Maybe something along the lines of high coin drops from bosses. Of course, the annoying thing about the place is it's only a very small coin sink, it's more of a gold sink than anything, so the type of coin you would really want to see in order to offset costs (around 600k per boss... going on the assumption it doesn't revolve around current gold prices) would inject more and more coin into the server.

I suppose another suggestion that might work, that doesn't involve more coin would be every boss or every other boss could give everyone an emerald guardian and spirit charm. That might be an interesting way to offset charm burns. Oh, and I have to say, my absolute favorite part of the revamp has to be that almost every single fight has a mechanic to disable BB, no more cleric hitting it and not paying attention (or burning spirit charms when unnecessary).

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you can't afford repairs at your level, or any level for that matter, you have a major problem with how you play the game.

If you only do things to make a profit or break even, you have a problem with how you play the game. It means you clearly care too much about yourself and not at all about others.

It is not that I cannot "afford" repairs it is that if I pay for repairs then I have to forgo paying for Skills for myself or my pets. I have 4 Characters and I LOVE skill progression so that is a no-go for me. I am not a uber Rich Veno nor do I like to spend a good portion of my pay check to milk the gold market. I find that despite the rumors you do NOT make more Coin at high levels you just lose it much faster. (My noob Wizard makes tons of money but this Veno loses it all the time LOL...Aaah to be low level again b:dirty )

As for doing things that break even that is called "Proper Planning". I know others do not always enjoy playing it safe and that is good for them but when they whine because they are broke and cannot level their skills all I can say is "I told you so.". I always hear people say "I have TONS of Spirit but no coin to upgrade my skills!" and I have only twice now had this problem. Even now my problem is the opposite, no SP but tons of Coin.

Your crusade about "Just help people until you cannot help them anymore because you are a poor beggar!" is a bit inane. Helping is fine, giving good advice is great, but grinding yourself into the dirt while doing it can be catastrophic. It made a friend of mine leave the game entirely because he was so broke and stressed from helping everyone that he could not take it anymore. It is also a bit unreasonable to believe that you cannot expect to get a reasonable REWARD for doing a DIFFICULT task that may motivate you to DO that task. (Otherwise we would all just work for free as slaves to a master to "Help them" without any incentive...Yeah...I know...So close to the truth isn't it?)


Which brings me to:

shlomo2 wrote: »

his idea is very simple: great challenge = great reward.

if you ignore the challenge and the reward and go only to help people... I've got to say you're happy for being exploited = submissive personality.

Shlomo is 100% right on this one. With Great Challenge SHOULD come Great Reward. Why bother working your tail off and struggling against great odds to...get...nothing? Or in this case the real offense is that you do not just get NOTHING you get something that is of negative value. This is what the OP was angry about and justly so.

You get for all your efforts an item that must be opened with another item that costs RL money. That is a bit of a slap in the face to begin with. Your REWARD for your work is to pay PWI $5.00 US...That seems like a backhanded reward to begin with. HOWEVER, even that could have been tolerated if the reward was so great for paying the 5 bucks that it offset the cost. However, because the Reward chosen was instead Coin and Gold to Coin ratios can vary wildly it has made the reward worth less than what you must pay to GET the reward.

This means that you A) Do a lot of hard work & Pay $5.00 US to get C) -500,000 Coin in game...That is some baaad math for a reward scheme.

Even if the armor and weapons of before were not that great it would not have mattered. At least being able to get them = some good coin rewards in mats or items AND prestige for the people who put in the hard work to earn them. As an achievement based player you could say "Look at what I have now! I have taken this hard challenge and defeated it!" and that is important. It is like climbing Mt. Everest but not documenting it anywhere so that no one ever knows you did it. Seems a bit pointless even to me and I am not big on achievement.

its just a comaparizon.

Absoluth - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I really hope you 'revamp' this dungeon properly, cuz its now even more bogus than before.

I admire your conviction for this game. You still have hope.

Most of this drama would go away if they just made something cheaper to open the stupid coin boxes... like an aluminum hammer (50 silver to 1 gold cost) or something...or no hammer at all. They should have realized that gold prices would get so messed up eventually that people wouldn't even be able to open the coin boxes. I doubt there's many people buying hammers from the cash shop anymore for that reason. If I bought a hammer, I'd sell the hammer since its worth more than the coin box... and whoever bought it from me would most likely be opening their stash with it, NOT a coin box (unless they're stupid)

So IMO they should just make the coin boxes free to open, or much cheaper

as for the FF drops... I guess there's not much that can be done about that since they now made it a 'levelling area' for people 80+

think it's common sense 2 things must NOT happen:

1. perfect hammers must NOT be sold any cheaper otherwise gold prices would inflate more and more.
2. chests of coins must NOT be opened without perfect hammers otherwise more and more coins would be injected into game = general inflaction.

They could make it to where you only get 1/4 the coin if you open without a hammer. I'm just saying there's too many people whining about the hammer costing more than the reward from the box. I don't see a point of the boxes even BEING IN THE GAME if people are gonna whine about them. We'll whine if we can't open them and we'll whine if we CAN open them (appearantly) so whatever. Just take the damn boxes out of the game then. period