LA/Arcane Facts.

Pandora wrote all about this in his guide; if ya scroll down to the very bottom (before the cube of fate non-guide) you'll find his write-up on the sage/demon split and HH90 gears.

InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »

First of all, this post has no opinion as to which build is better. At the moment, im seriously confused about it myself. Im thinking of staying pure till 90, and then restatting to LA when i start to PvP seriously.


I used the simulator on ecatomb to get these stats. Take note of the armor being used (it makes no difference in the calculations below, but the crit rates etc. are interesting).

I've seen various claims and math revolving around the damage difference at 9x, so I decided to work it out myself. Feel free to correct anything I post.

Now, I haven't seen the actual code, but from the description, i assume spells do: (random number between min/max mag. attack)+ (certain % of (random amount between min/max weap. mag. dmg.))+(certain fixed variable)

Lets substitute level 10 sandstorm into this ((300% of weap. dmg.)+4288.4). Im going to use the stats from the picture above, and for the random numbers from mag. att. and mag. att. on weap, i will use the average. Both weaps will be an unrefined Inferno-Heaven Ravager:Souless (831-1016 mag. att)

weap. dmg.:
(831+1016)/2
=923.5

One last thing, these numbers don't include resistance, so imagine hitting a [non] mob with 0 resistance

LIGHT ARMOR:

mag att. average:
(4632+5986)/2
=5309

Substitution:
5309+(300%*923.5)+4288.4
=12 367.9

ARCANE:

mag att. average:
(6478+8372)/2
=7425

Substitution:

7425+(300%*923.5)+4288.4
=14 483.9

DIFFERENCE:

14483.9-12367.9
=2116

Now, I'm no expert, but that figure looks seriously small.

now try wiht gush or pyro and u will find why not 100% of ppl are LA

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

There really isn't that big of a difference between LA and arcane. The difference definitely widens as the levels go up, but neither of the builds suck. The thing that kinda convinced me to go arcane at later levels is because alot of the gear (96 cape.. lunar rings.. etc) all give lots of pdef (I'm looking at end game gear only... cuz thats all I'm really interested in) and it ends up that arcane will have a very similar pdef %, a bit more damage (from what I hear... about 500 pvp dmg to every skill), higher magic resists, and depending on what shards.. about the same hp. So you end up looking at more damage + more magic resists instead of like 4% crit. I've always been planning on going arcane at some point, and it seems that it starts to become worthwhile around 9x... and no point being LA past like 96. But really.. it depends on your playing style and how much you are willing to spend on gear. (I've always looked at LA as being a cheap way to add more survivability.. you really need to invest in arcane gear to stand a chance in pvp.. but its worth it imo)

magic hamster approves! (^.^) yep I look towards end game in every game I play and this is no exception. =D
b:victory go Adriot! see you in game. xD hopefully I catch up~ b:thanks

InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »

First of all, having shards in your ARMOR wouldn't effect the damage.
The reason I DIDNT add shards (or refines) was because if one build had a certain type of shard, theres nothing that stops the other build from using that shard too, so if LA users shard their gear with saphire shards, what is preventing Arcane users from doing the same thing?

InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »

First of all, this post has no opinion as to which build is better. At the moment, im seriously confused about it myself. Im thinking of staying pure till 90, and then restatting to LA when i start to PvP seriously.


I used the simulator on ecatomb to get these stats. Take note of the armor being used (it makes no difference in the calculations below, but the crit rates etc. are interesting).

I've seen various claims and math revolving around the damage difference at 9x, so I decided to work it out myself. Feel free to correct anything I post.

Now, I haven't seen the actual code, but from the description, i assume spells do: (random number between min/max mag. attack)+ (certain % of (random amount between min/max weap. mag. dmg.))+(certain fixed variable)

Lets substitute level 10 sandstorm into this ((300% of weap. dmg.)+4288.4). Im going to use the stats from the picture above, and for the random numbers from mag. att. and mag. att. on weap, i will use the average. Both weaps will be an unrefined Inferno-Heaven Ravager:Souless (831-1016 mag. att)

weap. dmg.:
(831+1016)/2
=923.5

One last thing, these numbers don't include resistance, so imagine hitting a [non] mob with 0 resistance

LIGHT ARMOR:

mag att. average:
(4632+5986)/2
=5309

Substitution:
5309+(300%*923.5)+4288.4
=12 367.9

ARCANE:

mag att. average:
(6478+8372)/2
=7425

Substitution:

7425+(300%*923.5)+4288.4
=14 483.9

DIFFERENCE:

14483.9-12367.9
=2116

Now, I'm no expert, but that figure looks seriously small.

how the hell a lvl 100 mage has about the same magic attk I have buffed right now? Unrefined and unsharded weapon? So, you just did a comparison between 2 handicaped build. Gratz.
Now go back and refine/shard those things and come back with results after.
And use http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ u can add buffs and stuff and save a specific build so everyone can see what's on your mind.

and BTW, this is how an endgame Arcane wizard looks like:
http://www.postimage.org/aV1Mp48S.jpg
and the whole guide attached:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=236122&highlight=wizard+guide

that is endgame, real printscreen. Whatever comes out from PWI calcs is close, shows something but not the whole truth. Try it yourself. I have a wizard in guild that switched from LA to robe and back to LA and again back to Robe. And in the end, stayed robe. +2k dmg/ hit on mobs and +500dmg/hit in PvP is more valuable to many than being able to tank one more physical hit and getting **** by clerics debuff+metal attk

InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »

if you shard/refine the items equally im 99% sure you will end up with the EXACT figure that i got for the difference. Thats why i didnt shard or refine. I know as an arcane, you have to refine your 90 gear a lot more than LA users have to or you fail. I just wanted an even comparison


once again, if they are both buffed equally, whats the point? The Arcane will end up with maybe 5k extra max mag. dmg., which adds 2.5k to the average... Il be interested to see if http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ gives different stats, but i couldnt be bothered to waste my time. Double exp grinding ftwb:victory

are u serious? y would a LA wiz have the same shards in it as an AA? u've proved nothing so far in ur posts thats worth saying LA is better than AA.

who cares if one armor is better w/out shards or refines, i doubt anyone at those lvls walks around w/ unsharded or unrefined armor on them. and besides u not wanting to use pwcalc cause u dont want buffs, its so ppl can see the results for their own eyes, not from some numbers someone posted.(scouts honor!!) just use pwcalc, and prove it, or move on

I'm not a wizard but would I be allowed to input my two cents? I'm too lazy to use pwcalc and couldn't be bothered to find pen and paper so there might be some errors in my calculations. Anyone is more than welcome to correct me if I made a mistake somewhere.b:victory

Anyway, from what I understand the cleric's magic attack buff increases m.atk by 70% at level 10 so:

Light Armor
Average M.Atk: 5309 (your number) x 1.7 = 9025.3

Arcane
Average M.Atk: 7425 x 1.7 = 12622.5

This is, of course, the M.Atk of a wizard with an unrefined Inferno-Heaven Ravager:Souless. Skills, as you said, takes your M.Atk, and adds a % of weapon damage as well as a fixed number. That would mean that the only part of that equation that is different is the M.Atk value and so I only need to find the difference between the two numbers above.

Right now the difference in damage would be 3597.2 if both characters had unrefined weapons (if you ignore the effect weapons have on M.Atk).

Refining weapons would increase M.Atk which would increase the gap in damage between light armor and arcane. Too tired right now to try to attempt figure it out and I only now realized that it probably would have required less effort to use pwcalc. Someone else do it please.b:surrender

By the way, even if my numbers were completely wrong, this still means that buffs will make a difference in damage and I'm sure that higher level refines will increase the gap further.

Edit: The difference between buffed and unbuffed (using your numbers) would be 1481.2. Not much but still a difference (so no, I didn't get the exact figure you did).

InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »

if you shard/refine the items equally im 99% sure you will end up with the EXACT figure that i got for the difference. Thats why i didnt shard or refine. I know as an arcane, you have to refine your 90 gear a lot more than LA users have to or you fail. I just wanted an even comparison


once again, if they are both buffed equally, whats the point? The Arcane will end up with maybe 5k extra max mag. dmg., which adds 2.5k to the average... Il be interested to see if http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ gives different stats, but i couldnt be bothered to waste my time. Double exp grinding ftwb:victory

lol, good luck grinding.
And you don't seem to get one thing ( and a lot of ppl are missing it). Magic attk doesn't have a linear increase whith magic point added. The more magic u have the more u will benefit from even 1 point of magic.
And cleric buffs just make that difference way bigger. The calc will not really show you the right data, but believe me, when u get close to 8-9k magic attk, 70% of 8k is more than 70% of 6k. No rocket science there. Plus, the increase magic points get increase benefits from rings too. I'm not sure exactly how this works, I don't have an exact formula, but I've talked with an LA wizz in my guild, the same ring gave me about 450 magic dmg increase and only about 360 magid dmg increase for him. You won't see that diff no matter what calc u use.

There's a major differencce between the two builds if you don't shard/refine the gear.


Therefore your entire post is invalidated.

All you idiots that support light armor.

You have no idea that you can gain better stats on everything as arcane.

For instance I have Heavy armor pdef as an arcane and I lose no damage.

Oh and 17% crit.

And my HP is better than yours. 100% guarentee it. So while you fly around critting people for less than my noncrits and wonder why you get ignored in PVP. I will be kiting 9001 people at once.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

i wanna know all ur stats (pdef/hp etc, buffed and unbuffed :P)

+4 cape
+5 helmet/boot
+6 chest/pants/wrist

Full int.
HP 4700 unbuff(Fail) I know, working on it
Cri rate:13%
pdef:10k self-buff
magic resis:all 8.4k except earth 13k

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

thats fail? omg what will that make me? b:shocked

I want 7k+ hp with buff.

InvokerMage - Lost City wrote: »

looks like the general opinion is Pure is better, especially at 90+ (even in pvp)
on a side note, what shards should i be using pre-90? some say full HP, some say phy.def on armor and HP on cape/hat?

after 90, its phy. def all the way right? since you get HP from the massive refines anyway?

Mix and match depending on what you have until YOU feel like you have whatever you're comfortable with. This goes for both 90- and 90+ arcane. There's no specific rule to follow when it comes to gear. HP on cape is because all classes can use the capes you use, meaning the resell value is higher. Light Armor = full HP shards.