Penalty to taunt skill
ilystah
Posts: 59 Arc User
(taunt=increase aggro for those who don't know).
Taunt should have a penalty to it. Spamming taunting skill is just a no-brainer type of tanking, yet currently it is the best way to keep aggro, making the game boring. So I suggest either remove all taunt effect or make penalty to these effect.
Any 1 of the following will do:
1. Remove taunt effect altogether.
2. Taunt a monster will make it stronger (increased stats).
3. Taunt a monster will increase it range, increase attack rate, reduce channelling time and increase the chance the monster counter attack a range attacker.
4. Taunt a monster reduce all type of defence of yourself and stun yourself.
5. Remove taunt effect and replace it with reduce your own defence effect, have the monster to calculate aggro take into account target's defence.
6. Taunt skill have long cooldown time.
7. After a certain amount of taunt applied on a monster it duplicate itself.
Taunt should have a penalty to it. Spamming taunting skill is just a no-brainer type of tanking, yet currently it is the best way to keep aggro, making the game boring. So I suggest either remove all taunt effect or make penalty to these effect.
Any 1 of the following will do:
1. Remove taunt effect altogether.
2. Taunt a monster will make it stronger (increased stats).
3. Taunt a monster will increase it range, increase attack rate, reduce channelling time and increase the chance the monster counter attack a range attacker.
4. Taunt a monster reduce all type of defence of yourself and stun yourself.
5. Remove taunt effect and replace it with reduce your own defence effect, have the monster to calculate aggro take into account target's defence.
6. Taunt skill have long cooldown time.
7. After a certain amount of taunt applied on a monster it duplicate itself.
Post edited by ilystah on
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Comments
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Hmmm... I wonder if you use a venomancer maybe? Or maybe an archer? I am really thinking you are a frustrated player in PVP. Why put drawbacks on taunt skills? FBs would be even worse because barbarians and blademasters will have tons of trouble tanking. People won't even use taunts meaning automatic squad wipeout. PVE too easy? Then try FBs your own LVL solo. Then talk. This is just ridiculous, b:laughI don't understand why many skill have such a low cooldown that it don't even make sense for them to even have cooldown at all.
Like a 3sec cooldown on a 15mins buff really matter (all cleric's buff for example). Or a 1sec cooldown on a long channelling skill (such as wizard and cleric healing skill). Or a 1sec cooldown on a strong skill (e.g. undine strike).
On skill that need spark to cast then it make sense to have low cooldown because the Chi requirement act as a semi-cooldown mechanism.
I have played game that have 15sec cooldown on even basic slow skill for wizard and it still work fine. I was not suggesting gush to have 15sec cooldown here though because it is relatively weaker, but cooldown of 3sec is just absurdly short. Anyone can spam gush to kite and kill anything, make the challenge too easy.
Please make cooldown longer on a few selected skill that have low cooldown and no Chi cost so that it makes sense that there exist a cooldown. Those that this suggestion target is buff skill, long channelling skill, and strong skill.
Seriously I really think your just a frustrated veno or archer that only dies in PVP xD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
I know it can be annoying if you're grinding and another barb uses it and steals your aggro, but the gain of keeping your aggro while grinding isn't worth the loss of the lives of every member on your fb squad.95% of teens would freak out if the saw The Jonas Brothers on a 247 foot tall building about to jump. 5% get popcorn, a chair, and a video camera and yell Jump @#$&! jump!0
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Don't jump to the conclusion that if I want a nerf to a class I must hate it due to some reason. And I don't make this suggestion because I want to keep mobs to myself. I made this to make the game actually challenging, if you care to read my OP you should have know that, but you probably only read the title.
BM have only 1 taunt skill and it is not even a good one, any BM want instant aggro will use alpha male instead, and they have damage to draw aggro. But this suggestion apply not to only barb but anyone who party.
What do you see now when people kill boss is that the barb spam any taunt skill that finished cooldown, cleric spam heal and throw in some debuff or damage, everyone else spam whatever damage they can. The only one who actually do something a bit challenging is the cleric in the whole picture, simply because taunt skill is a sure good skill, there is no reason not to use it (unless DD have awesome weapon they don't need to think about aggro).
Now make penalty to taunt skill so that barb will actually have to choose which one to use, choose whether to use it now or save it for emergency, choose whether you should use it at all. Then you no longer see cleric spam heal and others spam damage, and people will actually think of different way to avoid death because they can't totally rely on cleric, cleric and everyone else will have to control aggro as well.
And if you read my suggestion on the implementation, you will see that except for #1 the rest is not that bad to party.
And for clerification, nobody lose a life. You might or might not lose exp, you might or might not lose stuff, and you lose a bit or a lot of time, but you don't lose life.
Another clarification, I'm a wizard, if I get frustrated in PvP I would have asked for a nerf in damage not aggro.
And another clarification, FB is meant to be done in squad, so solo-ing it is not the method to make it easier. Analogy: if you handicap yourself in tic-tac-toe by putting the board on top of a snowy mountain it won't make tic-tac-toe any harder.0 -
What does putting tic-tack-toe on a mountain have to do with this? I'm not seeing your analogy working here.
Anyways, although I don't know much about skills for other classes, I do think anything that keeps mob attention on the tank shouldn't be changed at all. The only thing that your suggestions would do is put more pressure on the cleric to keep everyone alive through the broken aggro. Anyways, if this taunt skill you want to change is really guaranteed to keep aggro on the barb, then why do party wipes even happen? If it was, as you say, a perfect way to keep aggro on one person, then nobody would ever be able to take aggro away, and this is just not the case. Even if I haven't been playing as long as some people here, I've seen plenty of times when a barb can't hold aggro for whatever reason.
Besides, you know if something like this was to be done, these forums would be flooded with QQ's and flames, telling the Dev's to change it back.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Be nice to people0 -
Just my 2 cent's worth... No!
I'm guessing this guy hasn't faught in an FB89... Try Brimstone 2nd boss you'll see what life is like w/o aggro control. "Clarify this... Etheral Abomination -- Good Point Fleuri)
Oh I'm guessing you've never been in a Rebirth terrible Idea there. I guess some squads could complete them but most people would be screwed.
I can see the mob getting stronger attack from a taunt but it's defense should drop because of it. (Try fighting someone angry they're attacks are stronger but less effective because of rage and almost no defense).
Then theirs the Damage penalty my class gets... Everyone else kills anything faster then we do!
Heck I'm upset with my 79 skills 0 value in Tiger form! What's up with that?0 -
I have some confuseds:
Which skill is "Taunt"? Roar has a 60 second cooldown, according to ecatomb. And, so does Untamed Wrath. (Where can I find "Taunt" on a skill tree??)
Also, which is the second boss in Brimstone? (Fats? Or Ethereal Abomination?)0 -
Don't jump to the conclusion that if I want a nerf to a class I must hate it due to some reason. And I don't make this suggestion because I want to keep mobs to myself. I made this to make the game actually challenging, if you care to read my OP you should have know that, but you probably only read the title.
BM have only 1 taunt skill and it is not even a good one, any BM want instant aggro will use alpha male instead, and they have damage to draw aggro. But this suggestion apply not to only barb but anyone who party.
What do you see now when people kill boss is that the barb spam any taunt skill that finished cooldown, cleric spam heal and throw in some debuff or damage, everyone else spam whatever damage they can. The only one who actually do something a bit challenging is the cleric in the whole picture, simply because taunt skill is a sure good skill, there is no reason not to use it (unless DD have awesome weapon they don't need to think about aggro).
Now make penalty to taunt skill so that barb will actually have to choose which one to use, choose whether to use it now or save it for emergency, choose whether you should use it at all. Then you no longer see cleric spam heal and others spam damage, and people will actually think of different way to avoid death because they can't totally rely on cleric, cleric and everyone else will have to control aggro as well.
And if you read my suggestion on the implementation, you will see that except for #1 the rest is not that bad to party.
And for clerification, nobody lose a life. You might or might not lose exp, you might or might not lose stuff, and you lose a bit or a lot of time, but you don't lose life.
Another clarification, I'm a wizard, if I get frustrated in PvP I would have asked for a nerf in damage not aggro.
And another clarification, FB is meant to be done in squad, so solo-ing it is not the method to make it easier. Analogy: if you handicap yourself in tic-tac-toe by putting the board on top of a snowy mountain it won't make tic-tac-toe any harder.
Ok I'm sorry, your a heavy plated wizard then wanting to use physical attacks.
BMs barely even be main tankers, I never seen a BM tried tanking besides ONE TT run, no main tank will taunt for your suggestion.
Nobody lose a life? Apparently you are just blind. In AOE, the squishy classes WILL get argo due to the damage. And not spamming damage and heals? Your joking because it will take ages for the boss to be killed and much likely party wipeout because there was no one to protect the cleric.
Why don't YOU AOE without a tank using argo skills? and try with a bored squad. Then talk.
And your clarification, you DO look like you are frustrated. Sorry, why don't YOU try using a heavy plated wizard to make things more "challenging" Apparently maybe you have good strategy (most likely you don't) and is just bored enough to make a pure fail post. Test first about these things, then suggest it.(taunt=increase aggro for those who don't know).
Taunt should have a penalty to it. Spamming taunting skill is just a no-brainer type of tanking, yet currently it is the best way to keep aggro, making the game boring. So I suggest either remove all taunt effect or make penalty to these effect.
Any 1 of the following will do:
1. Remove taunt effect altogether.
Who will argo?
2. Taunt a monster will make it stronger (increased stats).
On strong bosses will just kill the party faster than you blink
3. Taunt a monster will increase it range, increase attack rate, reduce channelling time and increase the chance the monster counter attack a range attacker.
Same as #2
4. Taunt a monster reduce all type of defence of yourself and stun yourself.
Making the squishy of a tank? Same as #2
5. Remove taunt effect and replace it with reduce your own defence effect, have the monster to calculate aggro take into account target's defence.
#2 again lol
6. Taunt skill have long cooldown time.
There is such a skill... AOE taunt roar which have a cooldown of 1 min -_- how long you want that? every hour?
7. After a certain amount of taunt applied on a monster it duplicate itself.
You make no sense, duplicating? Are you that mad?
Your a frustrated in PVP, doesn't matter which class you chose, wizard or not, go play another game like... I forgot... Because you sound ridiculous and don't suggest anything dumb.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Don't jump to the conclusion that if I want a nerf to a class I must hate it due to some reason. And I don't make this suggestion because I want to keep mobs to myself. I made this to make the game actually challenging, if you care to read my OP you should have know that, but you probably only read the title.
BM have only 1 taunt skill and it is not even a good one, any BM want instant aggro will use alpha male instead, and they have damage to draw aggro. But this suggestion apply not to only barb but anyone who party.
What do you see now when people kill boss is that the barb spam any taunt skill that finished cooldown, cleric spam heal and throw in some debuff or damage, everyone else spam whatever damage they can. The only one who actually do something a bit challenging is the cleric in the whole picture, simply because taunt skill is a sure good skill, there is no reason not to use it (unless DD have awesome weapon they don't need to think about aggro).
Now make penalty to taunt skill so that barb will actually have to choose which one to use, choose whether to use it now or save it for emergency, choose whether you should use it at all. Then you no longer see cleric spam heal and others spam damage, and people will actually think of different way to avoid death because they can't totally rely on cleric, cleric and everyone else will have to control aggro as well.
And if you read my suggestion on the implementation, you will see that except for #1 the rest is not that bad to party.
And for clerification, nobody lose a life. You might or might not lose exp, you might or might not lose stuff, and you lose a bit or a lot of time, but you don't lose life.
Another clarification, I'm a wizard, if I get frustrated in PvP I would have asked for a nerf in damage not aggro.
And another clarification, FB is meant to be done in squad, so solo-ing it is not the method to make it easier. Analogy: if you handicap yourself in tic-tac-toe by putting the board on top of a snowy mountain it won't make tic-tac-toe any harder.
Ok I'm sorry, your a heavy plated wizard then wanting to use physical attacks.
BMs barely even be main tankers, I never seen a BM tried tanking besides a TT run, no main tank will taunt for your suggestion.
Nobody lose a life? Apparently you are just blind. In AOE, the squishy classes WILL get argo due to the damage. And not spamming damage and heals? Your joking because it will take ages for the boss to be killed and much likely party wipeout because there was no one to protect the cleric.
Why don't YOU AOE without a tank using argo skills? and try with a bored squad. Then talk.
And your clarification, you DO look like you are frustrated. Sorry, why don't YOU try using a heavy plated wizard to make things more "challenging" Apparently maybe you have good strategy (most likely you don't) and is just bored enough to make a pure fail post. Test first about these things, then suggest it.(taunt=increase aggro for those who don't know).
Taunt should have a penalty to it. Spamming taunting skill is just a no-brainer type of tanking, yet currently it is the best way to keep aggro, making the game boring. So I suggest either remove all taunt effect or make penalty to these effect.
Any 1 of the following will do:
1. Remove taunt effect altogether.
Who will argo?
2. Taunt a monster will make it stronger (increased stats).
On strong bosses will just kill the party faster than you blink
3. Taunt a monster will increase it range, increase attack rate, reduce channelling time and increase the chance the monster counter attack a range attacker.
[BSame as #2[/B]
4. Taunt a monster reduce all type of defence of yourself and stun yourself.
Making the squishy of a tank? Same as #2
5. Remove taunt effect and replace it with reduce your own defence effect, have the monster to calculate aggro take into account target's defence.
#2 again lol
6. Taunt skill have long cooldown time.
There is such a skill... AOE taunt roar which have a cooldown of 1 min -_- how long you want that? every hour?
7. After a certain amount of taunt applied on a monster it duplicate itself.
You make no sense, duplicating? Are you that mad?
Your a frustrated in PVP, doesn't matter which class you chose, wizard or not, go play another game like... I forgot... Because you sound ridiculous and don't suggest anything dumb.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »I have some confuseds:
Which skill is "Taunt"? Roar has a 60 second cooldown, according to ecatomb. And, so does Untamed Wrath. (Where can I find "Taunt" on a skill tree??)
Also, which is the second boss in Brimstone? (Fats? Or Ethereal Abomination?)
I think he logged into the wrong game board.... maybe he is thinking of MoM.... or some other game...
Unless he is talking about the emote "taunt" that you can use by pressing E.... I seriously hope he is not using that emote to keep aggro though... (or the barbs he plays with use that).Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
@ Yulk: read my post completely before replying.
@ Fleuri & IceJazmin: "taunt=increase aggro" right on my OP first line, taunt skill is any skill that directly increase aggro.
@ Lairian: there is not a perfect way to keep aggro, but there is one single best way that require no thinking to use, that is use that taunt skill whenever it is available. I want whoever tanking to actually think before using a taunt skill.
@ Budika: I never been to FB89 but I never said I want to remove aggro control, I want to make aggro control something have to be think about. Currently as long as the barb use taunt skill everytime it cooldown, and you don't have weapon unusually powerful and don't spark, you don't have to think about control aggro at all.
*sign* why every nerf I suggest I have to defence it???0 -
Have you ever tried tanking a high level boss with no charms? Perhaps with a pack of archers behind you? It's not just mindless spamming all the time. You need to watch your health, manage your chi, make sure aggro doesn't transfer over to the DDs, and other things of the sort. It is NOT a no-brainer kind of thing, in most cases. Save for, of course, if the tank is MUCH higher level than the boss in question.
Also, your ideas of duplicating bosses and squishy tankers is complete and utter nonsense to me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
@ Yulk: read my post completely before replying.
@ Fleuri & IceJazmin: "taunt=increase aggro" right on my OP first line, taunt skill is any skill that directly increase aggro.
@ Lairian: there is not a perfect way to keep aggro, but there is one single best way that require no thinking to use, that is use that taunt skill whenever it is available. I want whoever tanking to actually think before using a taunt skill.
@ Budika: I never been to FB89 but I never said I want to remove aggro control, I want to make aggro control something have to be think about. Currently as long as the barb use taunt skill everytime it cooldown, and you don't have weapon unusually powerful and don't spark, you don't have to think about control aggro at all.
*sign* why every nerf I suggest I have to defence it???
Sooooooooooooooo... you want to take mediocre or poor ideas and just have us go with them without thinking about it? Sorry, but if you make any idea, even a good one, you'd better be prepared to back up your ideas. And when you propose something that absolutely nobody likes, you'd better be doubly preped to present your argument as to why your idea is a good one. You need to have thick skin to be able to handle criticism.
I'm pretty sure there's more to tanking than just using these taunt skills. As stated, I'm not sure of the details, but if this is all they did, it's probably a poor tank that either doesn't know what he/she is doing, or is still new and just learning the ropes.
If all you want is a harder play experience, go do something with a poor or underleveled party. That should give you all the thought provoking challenge you want.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Be nice to people0 -
Since every single attack skill, and heals increase aggro, do those count as taunt?
Also, Tanks also have to cancel AOEs when tanking bosses, so the rest of the party does not get killed..... On top of that, they need to keep an eye on other people's damage, and get ready to grab aggro in case someone happens to go on a critical spree.
Than, as you level up, you come accross bosses that love to randomly reset aggro and go after someone else, usualy the clerics..... So you cannot just spam your roar skills or they may end up in cooldown as the boss decides to go take a bite out of the cleric.....
If beaing a good tank was easy, good barbs would be everywhere... as it is, they are few and far between.....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Well there we have it IceJazmin - Heavens Tear "If beaing a good tank was easy, good barbs would be everywhere... as it is, they are few and far between..... " Very well stated!
@OP - ilystah
"Currently as long as the barb use taunt skill everytime it cooldown, and you don't have weapon unusually powerful and don't spark, you don't have to think about control aggro at all." b:chuckle this idea is just plain humorous!
Translation to English- Currently if the barb uses (Flesh Ream, Roar) every time it's up, doesn't spark, doesn't have a great/awesome weapon then aggro control is guaranteed.
Actual situations- Barb has Awesome lvl 70 weapon (Calamities +5) <- me right now in a squad w/ a lvl 98 clr.... On some mobs it was impossible to keep aggro away from this cleric. (only 7 lvl difference) I don't even need to go into issues with Archers and +6 or greater weapons. You just haven't been around long enough to understand how silly your idea is.0 -
@ Yulk: read my post completely before replying.
ROFL I didn't read your post? maybe you need to read my reply, let me put it with you and a barbarian / blademaster with your suggestions(taunt=increase aggro for those who don't know).
Taunt should have a penalty to it. Spamming taunting skill is just a no-brainer type of tanking, yet currently it is the best way to keep aggro, making the game boring. So I suggest either remove all taunt effect or make penalty to these effect.
Any 1 of the following will do:
1. Remove taunt effect altogether.
You will DO MORE damage than the tank, thus making YOU take argo
2. Taunt a monster will make it stronger (increased stats).
Think about this before you do that, try fighting sword tamer with a squad if your level 60 and the tank is LVL 60
3. Taunt a monster will increase it range, increase attack rate, reduce channelling time and increase the chance the monster counter attack a range attacker.
Same as #2
4. Taunt a monster reduce all type of defence of yourself and stun yourself.
Making the squishy of a tank? Its like reduced defense by a certain amount of % so, Same as #2
5. Remove taunt effect and replace it with reduce your own defence effect, have the monster to calculate aggro take into account target's defence.
in some RPG games MONSTERS target the character with the lowest defense...
6. Taunt skill have long cooldown time.
There is such a skill... AOE taunt roar which have a cooldown of 1 min -_- how long you want that? every hour? ONCE AGAIN 1 MINUTE, THAT IS LONG ENOUGH ALREADY
7. After a certain amount of taunt applied on a monster it duplicate itself.
You make no sense, duplicating? Are you that mad? Seriously, a hard boss duplicating itself? Go play Star ocean or legend of legaia, there are slimes that multiply
This is not reading your post and reply to it? Read my reply for gods sake. Just try it out with bored people then talk if you do good. Which is most likely not... First slower cooldown on cleric / wiz skills that are not even worth to spam but takes forever to buff a whole squad, then drawbacks on taunt skills. What's next? Archers have gimped range when attacking? higher repair bill? Your suggestions are only for killing squads, not helping them. If you say its too easy (your a wiz and probably pushed down from squads which is hard for a wiz to be in squad i heard) and want to make things more difficult than it actually is. You will shame other wizards. I think you definitely a frustrated player. I find out now, because your suggestions are about squads to make it even more difficult because your QQing about not getting a squad. Get used to it, have you should have friends and faction members, not random people to squad with.
Like buddika said, your ideas are silly
your thread fails and should just be locked, the devs trying to get players to enjoy and do better in the game, not worse. And do us all a favor, don't post here again please.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
@ Yulk: on your first post it is obvious you don't read my first post. On your second post you read my first but obviously ignore my second. There is plenty of time for you to read it, but you did not so you end up stating point I countered, repeating things as if they are new, making assumption which I contradicted. Dev want to get player to enjoy the game, but doing better is a different things. I am suggesting to make player doing worse so that they enjoy the game. If you think that doing better is enjoying the game, you should be playing chess against a toddler so that you can show your awesome power instead of playing against a chess master for a challenge. I am not suggesting that making the player worse will always make the game more enjoyable, I only talking in specific context of taunt skill.0
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