The Anniversary Packs is like Gambling?

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Comments

  • insomiac
    insomiac Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Life its Self its a Gamblingb:chuckle
  • ladyoftwightlight
    ladyoftwightlight Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Belligero - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes...

    Any thing that involves chance is a gamble.

    Edit: By the way, ha...ha...ha.. >.>

    It's the same with the earning zen,they don't tell you that you have to log into your account to then try to earn zen by taking the serrvy's then there's a big chance you will end up infecting your computer with malware. That's why most don't do it.b:angry
  • Pleiades - Harshlands
    Pleiades - Harshlands Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    andracil wrote: »
    Wow, Terraa really kicked behind here... o_O

    interesting the only view that supports PWE is the one that "kicked behind"

    and no, people aren't valuing the 15 tokens at 1$, many keep buying the anniversary packs in hopes of striking on something better - a lunar insignia, a lobster, etc.

    for them, it's just gambling with a consolation prize
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    DawnRazor - Lost City wrote: »
    Any spending of irl currency for a possible reward is gambling. So comes under gaming commission. Whether they like that fact or not. PWI is based in USA, and tbh the senators there are fickle. But wouldn't need much of a push to have em raging lol. Especially if its seen that kids are being exploited, which to be honest, they are.
    This is exactly the same issue that pinball machine have faced since way back in the 1950s.

    In some places, pinball machines cannot legally give out a "Free Game", because the courts there have ruled a free game has monetary value and thus it would be gambling. So instead, they give out extra balls, which even though the effect is similar the courts have allowed it. That's why pinball machines label the free game a "Special" instead.

    In the end, people are splitting hairs. Where the courts stand on the issue depends upon how uptight they happen to be wherever you live, but I'm willing to predict that in the vast majority of cases what PWI is doing wouldn't be considered legally gambling, except by only a very small minority of particularly uptight moralists.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Calliope - Heavens Tear
    Calliope - Heavens Tear Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    shlomo2 wrote: »
    But think about... Most people discussing the matter are 18+ I guess. Would you buy 3 boxes and get a 5m+ item wouldn't you try your luck again someday even if never again in this game? I think yes, it's human nature!!! Now think about the kids here... They ask their parents for zen not for a chance of getting such expensive items. They ask their parents for zen becaue there's some stunning event they must not miss! The parent ends up allowing it. And what if the kid who was granted 30 dollars get really nice rewards? Will the kid, years later, accept playing russian roulette for being self confident after being "lucky" with the "harmless" boxes???
    This is the least probable scenario I have heard in weeks. Congratulations!
  • Terraa - Lost City
    Terraa - Lost City Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Pleiades - Harshlands wrote: »
    interesting the only view that supports PWE is the one that "kicked behind"

    and no, people aren't valuing the 15 tokens at 1$, many keep buying the anniversary packs in hopes of striking on something better - a lunar insignia, a lobster, etc.

    for them, it's just gambling with a consolation prize

    And that makes it their problem. If you don't value 15 tokens at $1.... then don't buy 15 tokens for $1. There is more than one way to get a lunar insignia, and a lobster, these people are looking for the cheap way. Well sister, too bad -- either keep buying packs or pay someone who will.

    If that kid wins something from his anniversary packs, do you honestly think that'll influence his decision on whether or not to play Russian Roulette? If he does, then he's just increased the gene pool's IQ average by a couple points in the first place, because his problems didn't start with gambling.

    It's like you people identify everything except what your real problem is. Keep 'em coming, I'll shut all of you down.

    P.S. let's not identify one response from a mod (thank you btw, Andy, you made my day when I read that) as PWI's stance on the subject. That's just the one PoV, let's not get jumpy...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Falls - Sanctuary
    Falls - Sanctuary Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Don't forget that this doesn't actually cost anyone money.

    I can play for free, and buy Gold at the Auction House and "gamble", but I didn't actually pay anything for the chance to "gamble".

    I'm sure that is why it helps that there is a distinction between "Buying Zen" and doing whatever it is that people do with "Gold", which is all virtual currency, separated from real money by two degrees.
  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    lets just say its a good gamble lol

    ewen if u lose u still win ^^
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Don't forget that this doesn't actually cost anyone money.

    I can play for free, and buy Gold at the Auction House and "gamble", but I didn't actually pay anything for the chance to "gamble".

    I'm sure that is why it helps that there is a distinction between "Buying Zen" and doing whatever it is that people do with "Gold", which is all virtual currency, separated from real money by two degrees.

    That doesn't cost you money, someone still pays for all gold in the AH it's simply transferring the cost elsewhere.
  • Sunhi - Sanctuary
    Sunhi - Sanctuary Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Yes it is Gambling, and it is with real Money, and as with any Gambling establishment the house rule's , and always wins.

    And that means that they celebrate there aniversary, by ripping us all off a little more..

    But I do understand that They have to make money to give us a game..I just wish they could do it in the Wally World manner, and sell a lot for small profit.. Rather than sell at high Profit. I mean they do have a Monopoly on all Items, is not like someone else is gonna sell cheaper than they do.
  • kanohane
    kanohane Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Jer - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Isn't it like Gambling with your real money?Cause it cost $1 to buy the gambling chips aka gold then anniversary packs which gives random rewards? And under 18 play this game making it illegal?

    lol if that's gambling then lots of children's game are gambling
  • crystyl
    crystyl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Sunhi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes it is Gambling, and it is with real Money, and as with any Gambling establishment the house rule's , and always wins.

    And that means that they celebrate there aniversary, by ripping us all off a little more..

    But I do understand that They have to make money to give us a game..I just wish they could do it in the Wally World manner, and sell a lot for small profit.. Rather than sell at high Profit. I mean they do have a Monopoly on all Items, is not like someone else is gonna sell cheaper than they do.

    Ripping you off is putting a gun to your head and taking your wallet. Call the police. You push the "ok" button to buy Zen? Call ......? And to be honest they're not ripping you off. Even the lowest "prize" has value and can be used to help increase your chances to succeed in the game. For example 2 or 3 gold will get you MP pots better than a 4 gold charm. I would be willing to "bet" (gamble?) that this post would never have been made if you had gotten the 10 million bucks prize instead of the 15 luck tokens prize.

    and a little farther back someone said gambling in PWI could lead to playing Russian Roulette ? You gamble any time you play any game in some form or another. Play jacks or toss a "Hopscotch" heel and you're gambling. We're gonna miss ya!
    "pay to WIN"? Ok you win! now go away and let the rest of us "Play in Peace" without your whining!
  • Terraa - Lost City
    Terraa - Lost City Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Sunhi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ... and as with any Gambling establishment the house rule's , and always wins.

    And that means that they celebrate there aniversary, by ripping us all off a little more...

    Excuse me? Precisely what do they personally lose by giving a few lines of code out to individual players as prizes? They keep it all. Which means that they have no incentive whatsoever to rip you off, nor any inclination to decimate their player-base. Quite obviously people are getting tons of the top prizes, as the Duke keeps irritating my text box. I can't honestly believe how fascist some of you posters are, look at the facts ffs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Falls - Sanctuary
    Falls - Sanctuary Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Terraa - Lost City wrote: »
    Excuse me? Precisely what do they personally lose by giving a few lines of code out to individual players as prizes? They keep it all. Which means that they have no incentive whatsoever to rip you off, nor any inclination to decimate their player-base. Quite obviously people are getting tons of the top prizes, as the Duke keeps irritating my text box. I can't honestly believe how fascist some of you posters are, look at the facts FFS.

    I agree with you completely on the gambling issue. I don't even understand how this thread got so long >__<. Well I do, people QQing over the crappy items they get for their 50$, which I can understand, but not to the point of claiming PWI is doing something "illegal". This thread made my eyes roll too much, they hurt. b:sad

    The fact that they decimate their player base is also completely consequential and probably unintentional.
  • Purra_Pearl - Sanctuary
    Purra_Pearl - Sanctuary Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Falls - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, it is not gambling because the only party with a chance to win from these packs is PWE.

    b:chuckle The house _ALWAYS_ wins, baby. b:victory
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I just bought one pack as I am not a gambler and never got the end game item.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • DW_Vane - Sanctuary
    DW_Vane - Sanctuary Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    I will tell you this: Every dollar that you spend on Zhen you better consider it like a donation to PWE since the very moment that you click on Buy.

    Because: You will never get more, all or any of them back, and that's a big Never Ever. We players do not Own any thing that is hosted in their servers everything is their property, starting with a meditators robe for lvl 1 that you got 1 year ago, to those Lunar or Frost Equips/Weapons that people is getting by opening Aniv. Packs Now.

    So: Is Not Gambling (in the sense that you are trying to argue about) And it is not Because again , since the moment we Bought Zhen (aka donation) wherever and however we spend the 'Gold' as, we are never getting anything of our RL Cash back, thus missing a very important part of 'Gambling' wich is the hope for a 'getting back'

    In other words: (for the slow) Server is here -- Power Cord of Server is here -- Power Cord gets pulled -- Server is not here anymore. That easy!! They Lend us a server and game to play some, we donate some. No Gamble.
    5 pet skill slots TVM :: venos will $hare more oFc ;)
  • Pleiades - Harshlands
    Pleiades - Harshlands Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    Terraa - Lost City wrote: »
    And that makes it their problem. If you don't value 15 tokens at $1.... then don't buy 15 tokens for $1. There is more than one way to get a lunar insignia, and a lobster, these people are looking for the cheap way. Well sister, too bad -- either keep buying packs or pay someone who will.

    If that kid wins something from his anniversary packs, do you honestly think that'll influence his decision on whether or not to play Russian Roulette? If he does, then he's just increased the gene pool's IQ average by a couple points in the first place, because his problems didn't start with gambling.

    It's like you people identify everything except what your real problem is. Keep 'em coming, I'll shut all of you down.

    P.S. let's not identify one response from a mod (thank you btw, Andy, you made my day when I read that) as PWI's stance on the subject. That's just the one PoV, let's not get jumpy...

    did i claim anything about russian roulette? did i claim anything about the consequences of gambling? don't categorize me under "you people" when i don't even support those arguments

    you can say "too bad for them," but it's not like you negate the gambling when you say it. notice that the anniversary packs are not advertised as 15 tokens with a chance to instead win something big. the website instead claims that you're getting "rare items as well as tokens."

    for you it's clear. the 15 tokens are worth 1$, and if not, don't buy it. for some, spending more money means better chance hitting it big. "Don't Buy It" isn't a very strong argument now is it? the fact that it's "their problem" is also irrelevant. i could claim that every quarter you put in the slot machine lets you watch the symbols slide... and if anybody wanted any more out of it, it was "their problem." doesn't matter. the players want more out of it, it's their problem, it's gambling
  • DawnRazor - Lost City
    DawnRazor - Lost City Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    DW_Vane - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I will tell you this: Every dollar that you spend on Zhen you better consider it like a donation to PWE since the very moment that you click on Buy.

    Because: You will never get more, all or any of them back, and that's a big Never Ever. We players do not Own any thing that is hosted in their servers everything is their property, starting with a meditators robe for lvl 1 that you got 1 year ago, to those Lunar or Frost Equips/Weapons that people is getting by opening Aniv. Packs Now.

    So: Is Not Gambling (in the sense that you are trying to argue about) And it is not Because again , since the moment we Bought Zhen (aka donation) wherever and however we spend the 'Gold' as, we are never getting anything of our RL Cash back, thus missing a very important part of 'Gambling' wich is the hope for a 'getting back'


    In other words: (for the slow) Server is here -- Power Cord of Server is here -- Power Cord gets pulled -- Server is not here anymore. That easy!! They Lend us a server and game to play some, we donate some. No Gamble.

    Sensible post and agree with it. However its a very narrow viewpoint. My post initially was not directed at my main concern. The issue of whether it is gambling or not in a way is irrelevant and can be taken out of the equation. The real issue is the enticement to spend irl cash, on a target group, maybe too immature to realise that this is just a damm game, with the same value system that makes them want $250 dollar trainers, just cos their friends have them. When older you realise the $250 dollar trainers made using 3rd world labour at minimal cost rofl.

    I know people who have bought over 500 anniversary packs purely to try and get a scroll of tome. Another who's bank called them as they were concerned about the level of spending. Another was on world chat asking to buy over 200 millions worth of stuff rofl. Now in any view, whether its gambling/not gambling, its still absolutely ridiculous for anyone to spend so much money on a bloody game, purely for an event. And to allow this level of spending from children doesn't show any sense of responsibility on the part of the business people within PWI.

    Theres no method of verifying age within the game for them to spot that a 14 year old has spent 500 bucks in the last week on PWI. Especially as vouchers, Ukash, paybycash all bypass any age restriction. I buy zen, but am old enough to set reasonable spending limits within my budget, a lot of PWI's players are incapable of this, as they too young to have these personal skills adults take for granted. For this reason the law protects the young, to help them, and prevent stupid behaviour or choices, age restrictions on anything that can harm them. And in my view allowing children to blow an unrestricted amount on a virtual world, is harming them. An old mmo I used to play had a 48 hour timespan between gold purchases after your limit was up, here there's nothing.

    Adults it's different, they decide, are hopefully mature enough to spend in a non harmful way.
  • Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver
    Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited September 2009
    oh noes its illegal

    send meh to jailz

    b:surrenderb:cryb:surrender
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