Someone IS listening ;-)

shammahbenjudah · August 2009

I'm not a n00bie to gaming, I've been a GM, worked directly with game Dev's testing all stages of game play on several different games. The feedback we provided came from multiple sources, such as actually experiencing the gameplay. But there are other very valuable sources of information that help the Dev's create a competitive and marketable gaming product.

I'm sure you know that the gaming industry is quite the dog-eat-dog market. And I will tell you up front that one of the very best resources for a game's competitors are that game's "Complaints" threads.

When the major issues players have with games are compiled and overcome in the development of a competitors product, the competitors entry into the market is often very well received.

The games that thrive and do well are the ones who listen to and correct the major issues their players are giving them feedback about. Why would they go to a new game if they're enjoying the one they're playing?

I've played here since the new servers opened and found the game fun and fairly well playable...in the beginning. But now that the honeymoon is over (and its this way with many games) we're finding a lot of issues that are taking the enjoyability out of the game for a lot of people.

Now I'm not currently involved in any development programs, so please don't misunderstand me. I hope that someone will see this and understand that its feedback that is intended to help.

The forums here have become a virtual goldmine for your competitors. Somebody IS listening...the question is, Who?

Fireblood - Harshlands · August 2009

Ah..........so what's your point?

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Technically, any forum about a game is a virtual goldmine for competitors' development projects. PW is just one of many games with these problems. Do other companies learn and try to avoid these mistakes? No, not really.

(You should take a quick look at the address in my siggy.)

shammahbenjudah · August 2009

Fireblood - Harshlands wrote: »

Ah..........so what's your point?

Point is, its very likely that this games competitors are listening to us and will be happy to make, or are currently in the process of making an extremely competitive product.

If they're the only ones really listening, then this game's capacity to compete takes a pretty hard hit.

Soon the number of true new players will drop off and then the crux of the financial support for the game will have to come from its "loyal" player base. But when the "loyal" player base has problems that never seem to get fixed, their financial loyalty will begin to drop off too.

Most of the games I've seen "go away" are the ones who waited till it was too late to try to make their gamer base happy...usually too little and again, too late.

The sooner the player base is able to settle down and just enjoy the game, the better. The longer that takes to happen, the sooner they will pull the plug.

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Never mind.

Belligero - Sanctuary · August 2009

Who is listening?

The deaf man is listening.

shammahbenjudah · August 2009

Baraya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Technically, any forum about a game is a virtual goldmine for competitors' development projects. PW is just one of many games with these problems. Do other companies learn and try to avoid these mistakes? No, not really.

(You should take a quick look at the address in my siggy.)

Well, yeah I see your point. Thing is that as a Dev, I'm going to target the high end of the gaming field, like the ones who get awards and make lots of money and have huge player bases.

Once the tech is developed for the games, it exists and it will be used again by someone else. With a few tweaks and customizations to avoid legal issues, its almost like cut and paste technically speaking.

Thing is that there's been a lot of that actual development for this game and I believe they have listened to gamers in making it.

But like your post at the link in your sig suggests, we're not really talking about the technical issues here.

The Techs have made a great game, the development team has created the ambient atmosphere that causes the player base to give them money. And that's one of the bigger issues I'm seeing raised again and again. That ambience is choking the gaming community and taking the fun out of the game.

The money thing isn't the only issue though, but it seems to be the biggest one in current discussions.

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

shammahbenjudah wrote: »

Well, yeah I see your point. Thing is that as a Dev, I'm going to target the high end of the gaming field, like the ones who get awards and make lots of money and have huge player bases.

Once the tech is developed for the games, it exists and it will be used again by someone else. With a few tweaks and customizations to avoid legal issues, its almost like cut and paste technically speaking.

Thing is that there's been a lot of that actual development for this game and I believe they have listened to gamers in making it.

But like your post at the link in your sig suggests, we're not really talking about the technical issues here.

The Techs have made a great game, the development team has created the ambient atmosphere that causes the player base to give them money. And that's one of the bigger issues I'm seeing raised again and again. That ambience is choking the gaming community and taking the fun out of the game.

The money thing isn't the only issue though, but it seems to be the biggest one in current discussions.

Check out the other official servers for PW. They're riddled with problems that never got fixed. This version has many problems also. The great technical development only existed while the game was being made. It's almost like they fired most of their dev team after the game was first created.

EDIT: If you look at the new expansion this fall, it looks like that dev team is back to work again. Now, if we can just get those problems fixed...

shammahbenjudah · August 2009

Baraya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Check out the other official servers for PW. They're riddled with problems that never got fixed. This version has many problems also. The great technical development only existed while the game was being made. It's almost like they fired most of their dev team after the game was first created.

EDIT: If you look at the new expansion this fall, it looks like that dev team is back to work again. Now, if we can just get those problems fixed...

Well of course...and its important to remember that there's no such thing as perfection either (no matter what name you call it) and you can't please everyone, lol.

Some companies have no intention of keeping a game up long-term. They expect to hit the market hard, drain as much cash as they can fast and then move on to something else.

Others plan to run long-term and they target stability as much as possible. They make really decent money and they have a lot of staying power.

There are a couple titles I can think of off hand that were here long before this game, and they will be hear long after this one, too. Simply because they developed a solid income and maintain it by keeping a happy and loyal player base.

This looks like its playing out as some kind of hybrid between the short-term high-yield approach that's a long-term stable wannabe. And dramatically nerfing things at higher levels to slow down gameplay isn't the thing that's going to generate long-term stability...it psyches people.

They get frustrated because of the nerfing but won't leave because they've already invested so much time, effort and moneyand they don't want to leave "all their friends". And all the time while they continue to play, they're subliminally grinding their teeth in aggravation over it.

I don't much care for that.

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

You don't realize all of the history behind PW. The program itself has been around for years yet it still has tons of problems. The issue is not which business model PW fits into. It's about the company's BS. They just want money yet they obviously want to use this game for a LONG time. Where does that fit in?

eatwithspoons · August 2009

Baraya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You don't realize all of the history behind PW. The program itself has been around for years yet it still has tons of problems. The issue is not which business model PW fits into. It's about the company's BS. They just want money yet they obviously want to use this game for a LONG time. Where does that fit in?

Your posts are becoming much more negative over time, and from the looks of the link in your sig, your main problem is the gold to dollar ratio and Cubinet (a company not affiliated with us in any way)? Please try to be sure not to simply point fingers without providing constructive feedback, because that is neither productive nor is it allowed here.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary · August 2009

After moving from my last mmo (which can't be mentioned) I kinda learnt something. It IS possible for there to be better. My last mmo was a joke, buggy, cash shop orientated, no content, devs that ignored everything, yet complaining got you shot down by a select addicted few who'd defend the game to the death for no adequate reason...and yet the game forums were thick with complaints and players left frequently. On pwi I've seen countless player who also moved here from that mmo.

And considering how glad I am I moved, I have to say if a better mmo than pw comes along that actually listens to customers....I'm off. Why stick with mediocre when great is available? I'm still sticking with pw for the time being, but if a game comes along that is like pw was 3 months ago and it stays that way, then it's pretty obvious where the player base will go.

Whats sad is typing this is pointless, the devs don't even read the forums or care =/
The players asked for bug fixes, class balance, a stable economy, more content, more fun things to do at high level, ect.... and we got cube boxes, more bugs, jolly jones, endless sales and zen spam being promoted. I don't get it devs....wtf O_o no one asked for this. 90% of the player base hates it....why are we getting these and not what we constantly request?

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

eatwithspoons wrote: »

Your posts are becoming much more negative over time, and from the looks of the link in your sig, your main problem is the gold to dollar ratio and Cubinet (a company not affiliated with us in any way)? Please try to be sure not to simply point fingers without providing constructive feedback, because that is neither productive nor is it allowed here.

I respect your post and I'll shut up. I have to say, though, that PW prices have always been determined by PW-CN, not host companies. PW-MS tried to get lower cash shop prices and was denied by PW-CN.

eatwithspoons · August 2009

Baraya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I respect your post and I'll shut up. I have to say, though, that PW prices have always been determined by PW-CN, not host companies. PW-MS tried to get lower cash shop prices and was denied by PW-CN.

Unfortunately that decision is out of our hands. Cubinet has a separate contract with the Chinese branch of our company. Don't get me wrong though I'm hearing you loud and clear and I understand your point b:victory Just want to make sure it is expressed in the right way

Nakhimov - Lost City · August 2009

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Whats sad is typing this is pointless, the devs don't even read the forums or care =/
The players asked for bug fixes, class balance, a stable economy, more content, more fun things to do at high level, ect.... and we got cube boxes, more bugs, jolly jones, endless sales and zen spam being promoted. I don't get it devs....wtf O_o no one asked for this. 90% of the player base hates it....why are we getting these and not what we constantly request?

Because the devs are trying to maximise profit margin.

that's the thing about f2p games: it's all about making money from players short term.

I miss the support from my p2p days, balancing and bug fixes. I don't miss paying bi-monthly though, especially considering how monotonous it got after thousands and thousands of honour kills.

DarkSniper - Lost City · August 2009

So by making QQ threads we enrich the gaming community as a whole and help make games better world wide.

SO QQ MOAR!

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · August 2009

Just a general observation on my part:

Ever since I started, I've had one of my cat-shops selling DQ items to level ~20 players for an average profit of about 200k per day. That average has not shown any signs of letting up, despite the constant refrain that the game is dying.

In fact, I'd even say volume has gone up slightly.

Baraya - Dreamweaver · August 2009

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just a general observation on my part:

Ever since I started, I've had one of my cat-shops selling DQ items to level ~20 players for an average profit of about 200k per day. That average has not shown any signs of letting up, despite the constant refrain that the game is dying.

In fact, I'd even say volume has gone up slightly.

Nah, I don't think this game will ever die. Complaints have always existed and so has their contantly-rotating fanbase. They'll always have someone to fill their pockets.

Someone IS listening ;-)

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