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    • Would these situational wizard build work? Crit wizard/DPS wizard

    Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2009 in Wizard
    I know the argument that wizard is meant to deal high consistent damage, or burst damage so pure int is the way to go. However sometimes you want wizard for very situational demand yet you cannot use another class to replace because you still need the magic damage. For example, if you want the wizard only to do dungeon then high average DPS in a long period of time might be a better idea. Or if you want a situational wizard that have good chance of killing a charm barb that have a little bit more than 50% hp. So I wonder if the following 2 builds will work: a DPS wizard for the dungeon wizard and Crit wizard for killing charm high HP opponent.

    DPS wizard:
    Aim to have highest average DPS over long period of time.
    Use Arcane armor, so only 1 STR per 2 level.
    For every 20 DEX you get 1% crit which average over long period of time would be 1% increase in your DPS. Compare to a pure MAG wizard you lose 20MAG to get that 20DEX, which equal to lose to your base magic attack. If you use mainly spell that have 300% weapon damage and use high refined weapon then that base damage you lose from not having that 20MAG might be less than 1% of pure MAG wizard damage, which means the expected DPS will be higher than pure MAG wizard.

    Crit wizard:
    Aim to have high chance of killing a charmed high HP opponent by 1 shot them when they are at a bit more than 50% HP.
    Use Arcane Armor, so only 1 STR and 5MAG per 2 level.
    The rest of the stats go to DEX for highest crit possible. Also use pataka. Go either demon for the consistent crit bonus or sage for the 10sec crit.
    So for this wizard if you find a barb at around 51% HP you can try to debuff him+triple spark then try a strong attack on him, or debuff+ulti.

    So would the 2 above build work in these situational cases. Obviously both are not good build in general but I want to heard comment on the benefit/cons compare to pure/LA wizard in the situation designed for them.
    Post edited by ilystah on

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    • Posts: 463 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      ilystah wrote: »
      I know the argument that wizard is meant to deal high consistent damage, or burst damage so pure int is the way to go. However sometimes you want wizard for very situational demand yet you cannot use another class to replace because you still need the magic damage. For example, if you want the wizard only to do dungeon then high average DPS in a long period of time might be a better idea. Or if you want a situational wizard that have good chance of killing a charm barb that have a little bit more than 50% hp. So I wonder if the following 2 builds will work: a DPS wizard for the dungeon wizard and Crit wizard for killing charm high HP opponent.

      DPS wizard:
      Aim to have highest average DPS over long period of time.
      Use Arcane armor, so only 1 STR per 2 level.
      For every 20 DEX you get 1% crit which average over long period of time would be 1% increase in your DPS. Compare to a pure MAG wizard you lose 20MAG to get that 20DEX, which equal to lose to your base magic attack. If you use mainly spell that have 300% weapon damage and use high refined weapon then that base damage you lose from not having that 20MAG might be less than 1% of pure MAG wizard damage, which means the expected DPS will be higher than pure MAG wizard.

      Crit wizard:
      Aim to have high chance of killing a charmed high HP opponent by 1 shot them when they are at a bit more than 50% HP.
      Use Arcane Armor, so only 1 STR and 5MAG per 2 level.
      The rest of the stats go to DEX for highest crit possible. Also use pataka. Go either demon for the consistent crit bonus or sage for the 10sec crit.
      So for this wizard if you find a barb at around 51% HP you can try to debuff him+triple spark then try a strong attack on him, or debuff+ulti.

      So would the 2 above build work in these situational cases. Obviously both are not good build in general but I want to heard comment on the benefit/cons compare to pure/LA wizard in the situation designed for them.

      20mag <(20dex)1crit wiht sux weapon

      highter 20mag means more than 1%dam wiht a good weapon and like most of the skills wiz are based on magic+wep relacion...and if u get crit bonus from stuff having + magic bonus even more ur crits so 20mag >>>>>>>>>>20 dex
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 4,628 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      The first problem with both builds is that you need 3maq every level and 1 str every other level just to use a maq wep of your level. So... you have an extra 3 pts every two levels to put in whatever you want.

      The first build just wouldn't work because 20 pts in maq will give you higher average damage than 1% extra crit. So for an average dmg against a boss, the 9maq 1str every two levels would give you the highest average damage against a boss.

      As for your second build, if you wanted to defeat a barb's charm.. what you are really looking for is sage BIDS. 50% chance to increase your crit rate by 30%. Putting as many dex points as you were looking at would limit your damage so much that even with a crit, you may still be unable to get through the barb's charm.

      From your builds, it sounds like you are really interested in a crit build.. where you should really be using an Archer instead of a mage. If you are dead set on using a mage, you'll probably want to go LA to get that extra crit and also get more survivability :P
      Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
      Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
      [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 240 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
      The first problem with both builds is that you need 3maq every level and 1 str every other level just to use a maq wep of your level. So... you have an extra 3 pts every two levels to put in whatever you want.

      The first build just wouldn't work because 20 pts in maq will give you higher average damage than 1% extra crit. So for an average dmg against a boss, the 9maq 1str every two levels would give you the highest average damage against a boss.

      As for your second build, if you wanted to defeat a barb's charm.. what you are really looking for is sage BIDS. 50% chance to increase your crit rate by 30%. Putting as many dex points as you were looking at would limit your damage so much that even with a crit, you may still be unable to get through the barb's charm.

      From your builds, it sounds like you are really interested in a crit build.. where you should really be using an Archer instead of a mage. If you are dead set on using a mage, you'll probably want to go LA to get that extra crit and also get more survivability :P

      This is a good response.

      If you're dead set on it, I'll add that I don't know anyone who's tried what was mentioned above. 6 mag/1str/3 dex per two levels will get you higher percent crit than any other build for wiz. I think most people won't go for it because it's just an unstable way of doing damage, it seems.

      You're non-crit dmg will be equal to LA builds, and you'd crit a little more, I THINK. I definately wouldn't recommend anyone try that build unless they were lvl80 or 90, because that's when the extra dex would really set in and you'd see a real difference.

      Wizzies suck until high level, and it's been much agreed upon that pure mag build is the quickest for leveling. So I'd say if you've got your heart set on some kind of crit wiz, go pure and restat at 80 or 90. This game's been out for a while, but I think there's still room to experiment if you really think you can pull it off.

      Just remember that there's probably a reason why a lot of people haven't done what you're thinking of doing.

      I'm kind of interested in this because I was thinking about the same kind of build myself a month ago. I'll tell you that I've talked to a photography celebrity once before -- he told me that "you know you have an innovative idea when everyone tells you it won't work." He got famous in the U.S. from being innovative.

      Just a thought.
    • Posts: 3,533 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      i have something similiar to the crit build
      im LA and i stack as much crit as i can possibly find
      it works out great too
      i got this handy little genie skill called spark
      even though im LA
      i hit a cleric for 7.4k (blade tempest crit)
      BM for 4k (divine pyrogram double sparked non crit)
      I got a barb for 7.9k (divine pyrogram double spark ex poison crit)

      its a really nice skill going to try it out with undine b:cute
      Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
      Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
      ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
      Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
      So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
    • Posts: 328 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Feiric - Harshlands wrote: »
      Just remember that there's probably a reason why a lot of people haven't done what you're thinking of doing.
      The problem is that the "crit build" is just worse than LA. Compare:

      LA: 6 mag/2str/2dex every 2 levels. More pdef, more hp, etc
      Crit: 6mag/1str/3 dex every 2 levels. At level 40, you get 1% more crit than LA, at level 80 you have 2% more. But you don't get the pdef or hp of LA, and you don't get the high damage of a pure int build. It's not worth the costs just to get that 2% crit.
    • Posts: 5 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Crit Wizard: LA
      DPS Wizard: Pure Int
      I managed to hit level 104 on a X5 rates server!
      b:cute
      How you level 101's on X1 can stand it, I don't know b:shocked
      Woyaa|Level 104|Venomancer|Heaven|Heavy Fox
      SpringBud|Level 98|Wizard|Heaven|LA Mage <--Goes to DP
      Lowbie Alts:
      FrostSong|Level 90|Cleric|Heaven|Full Vit Cleric
      IcantPWN|Level 77|BladeMaster|Axe/Fists HA/LA
      X0neX|Level 89|Archer|Hell|Exotic EA (1 Mag each level)
      LaZy|Level 91|Cleric|Heaven|Full Int, retired
      T4nker|Level 8x|Barbarian|Full Con, playing on this one
    • Posts: 730 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      I've actually known someone with a crit build (he had like 80+ dex or something like that, and was arcane). zUcK I think on Lost City. Anyway, at the time, I was a higher level 9x Mage, Pure Int. In a fb59 he actually stole aggro from my +7HH90 Green Glaive with his +5 79molder weapon, (I was 5+ levels lower than him too). This didn't happen once, but several times. Was kinda shocked that his DPS out did mine on certain occasions due to his high 12% crit.

      Anyway, it seems fun and all, I'm glad I knew someone who actually tried a dex build. I guess you hit slighty harder than LA mages, but the damage is still pretty bad compared to full int.

      Oh and at 99 with the 99gold Crit Sword, you can have 10%crit EASILY being Arcane/full int.

      hope this helps
    • Posts: 1,341 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      high DPS wizard = pure magic with tons of -% channel items and highly refined weapon+high lvl sapphires.

      with very high channel reduction sutra loses its appeal and getting more chi over time also helps dealing more dmg through spark eruptions.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.
    • Posts: 3,533 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »
      I've actually known someone with a crit build (he had like 80+ dex or something like that, and was arcane). zUcK I think on Lost City. Anyway, at the time, I was a higher level 9x Mage, Pure Int. In a fb59 he actually stole aggro from my +7HH90 Green Glaive with his +5 79molder weapon, (I was 5+ levels lower than him too). This didn't happen once, but several times. Was kinda shocked that his DPS out did mine on certain occasions due to his high 12% crit.

      Anyway, it seems fun and all, I'm glad I knew someone who actually tried a dex build. I guess you hit slighty harder than LA mages, but the damage is still pretty bad compared to full int.

      Oh and at 99 with the 99gold Crit Sword, you can have 10%crit EASILY being Arcane/full int.

      hope this helps


      im going to try this out b:laugh
      Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
      Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
      ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
      Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
      So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
    • Posts: 463 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      im going to try this out b:laugh

      and i try the other build(the pure int) b:laugh
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 4,628 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      ilystah wrote: »
      So I wonder if the following 2 builds will work: a DPS wizard for the dungeon wizard and Crit wizard for killing charm high HP opponent.

      DPS wizard:
      Aim to have highest average DPS over long period of time.
      Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
      But in PvP, people use ironheart, hp charms, potions and so on, so damage delivered later sometimes is not worth much. I do not know how to quantify this, but I would guess you could count crit chance damage 3 times to help approximate this issue.

      We are not talking about PvP for the first build.. we are talking about average damage in PvE.
      Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
      Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
      [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 59 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      I think I can leave the equipment issue aside because pure int and the 2 build here are all arcane user using magic instrument. So all the -channelling equipment is assumed to be identical if we want to compare.
      I think that Crit build compare to LA the 2% extra crit can be significant, however factor in the difference in armor the issue is not clear because it pretty much depend on how much you invest in your gear. From what I see arcane armor is defence against 5 type of damage, so you can just shard in physical damage, while LA is physical, sharding in 5 elemental defence would be harder. So perhap Crit build is better than LA if you are high level and have lots of money for gear.
      As for DPS, the issue is to balance out so that that 1% of total damage is greater than 20MAG in base magic damage. The issue is that 1% is 1% of total damage counting equipment and fixed additional damage from spell, while 20MAG only affect base. The dilemma here is that it depend on style of spell used and weapon. Most useful attack spell for wizard is base magic+x% weapon magic+fixed. So if you use a high refined weapon, or you concentrate on using spell with x=300 at least, then that 1% will be higher than 20MAG. However if you have weak weapon then 1% is lower than 20MAG. This however have not factor in skill that depend on just base magic (the useless crown of flame or the friend maker frostblade), or skill that depend on max mana (level 100 skill), that is why I am not sure if it better in term of dps to use DPS build or pure int.
    • Posts: 59 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Bump for 1 more chance to make a good new build for wizard.
    • Posts: 460 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Realistic(ish) comparison with low hp builds

      http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=7a0c3f3c12b971a0

      http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=31467356af8ab6e7

      5 - 12 percent crit
      5892-7645 - 4375-5676 magic attack

      Pretty big difference and you're doomed if you don't crit, and there's no longer a degree of certainty that when you do crit, it'll be enough to kill someone

      Rather not rely on a 12 percent chance to rarely kill someone
    • Posts: 3,533 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      12 percent is pretty much a good chance. Once you reach 18% you are pretty much going to crit on every hit, at least thats an archer view.
      Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
      Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
      ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
      Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
      So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
    • Posts: 1,341 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      with endgame weapon and ornaments any pure magic build can get >10% crit.

      base crit = 1%
      sinrabansho (weapon) = 4%
      sign of antiquity:chaos (ring)= 3% each
      archangel's pendant (necklace) = 1%
      complete archangel set bonus (last opt for having all 6 items) = 3%

      that makes a squishy wiz but with up to 15% crit + up to 30% channel reduction there's little to complain about DPS.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.
    • Posts: 460 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      12 percent is pretty much a good chance. Once you reach 18% you are pretty much going to crit on every hit, at least thats an archer view.

      What? 18% is not 100%
    • Posts: 2,634 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      12 percent is pretty much a good chance. Once you reach 18% you are pretty much going to crit on every hit, at least thats an archer view.

      yeah, archers crit at every hit once they get 5% crit and Hugh Hefner is still a virgin.
      18% is not even 1/5 crit hits.
      at 18% , as archer, u have a big chance to crit once on every mob and that's not bad.
      As wizard, u should kill mobs in 3 and worst case scenario 4 hits. so, you'll crit let's say 3 times during the kill of 5 mobs? that's not very bad, but if u are LA u need that and some more to compensate for loss of dmg.
      ____________
      I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
      George Carlin

      ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 3,533 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      Damaged - Lost City wrote: »
      What? 18% is not 100%
      Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      yeah, archers crit at every hit once they get 5% crit and Hugh Hefner is still a virgin.
      18% is not even 1/5 crit hits.
      at 18% , as archer, u have a big chance to crit once on every mob and that's not bad.
      As wizard, u should kill mobs in 3 and worst case scenario 4 hits. so, you'll crit let's say 3 times during the kill of 5 mobs? that's not very bad, but if u are LA u need that and some more to compensate for loss of dmg.

      as an archer,
      once you reach 18% crit its pretty much good enough and its basically you will crit. Its something i noticed with my archer going from 17% to 18% crit.
      Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
      Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
      ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
      Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
      So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
    • Posts: 2,634 Arc User
      edited August 2009
      18% is a lot, and u will crit at that point basically on every mob and almost every PvP fight if u have the chance to 2-3 hit someone. But u won't crit on every shot.
      ____________
      I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
      George Carlin

      ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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