Shaodu Cub

Shadou cub is capable of tanking some bosses that that the magmite is not, or would have trouble with, due to its higher magic defense, so it IS a good pet.

However, since its damage is quite low, especially if you are pure mag, you may have to modify your playing style so as not to steal aggro from it, or upgrade multiple aggro-generating skills.

Unless of course you just catch the shaodu.

I find it a waste of money to spend money on rare pets in the first place.

and I just replaced one of its skills with bash. so I have level 1 flesh ream and bash and it still keeps the agro fairly well (full mag)

CrazyzViet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

is it better if i just teach and lvl up my magmites skills every now and then?

There's not really much reason to. They suck around magic mobs and tanking TT bosses. They're also slow, and obstruct targeting. Consider the skills the Shadou Cub come with against it's cost.

tweakz wrote: »

There's not really much reason to. They suck around magic mobs and tanking TT bosses. They're also slow, and obstruct targeting. Consider the skills the Shadou Cub come with against it's cost.

OMG tweakz dude...maybe a magmite suck for you, but thats doesnt count for everyone. Everyone who says a magmite sucks just dont know how to handle them. A MAGMITE DOESNT SUCK!! Just keep your mouth shut and stop complaining about magmites.

Both magmite and cub are good tankers, you should try for yourself what you think is best pet for your playstyle. But keep in mind that the magmite does more dmg, though the cub has better mag def.

EvilDragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

OMG tweakz dude...maybe a magmite suck for you, but thats doesnt count for everyone. Everyone who says a magmite sucks just dont know how to handle them. A MAGMITE DOESNT SUCK!! Just keep your mouth shut and stop complaining about magmites.

Both magmite and cub are good tankers, you should try for yourself what you think is best pet for your playstyle. But keep in mind that the magmite does more dmg, though the cub has better mag def.

Keep rambling on and on.. did you even disagree with what I actually stated? -No. Therefore: Troll?

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have to agree with tweakz that magmites are overrated. I wouldn't go as far as saying they suck because I can think of a few cases where they're quite nice.

I'm seeing the same problem I saw earlier this year with recommendations for the heavy build. A lot of 80+ venos were saying how awesome the heavy armor veno was; and it is, at their level. No real problem if you're telling people to go heavy at 80. But they were so enthusiastic about it they were jumping into threads started by level 5 venos asking what's a good build, and extolling the virtues of the heavy build. The heavy build is a painful, expensive, and super-complicated as a leveling build, with not much advantage over light armor at the lower levels. In my 70s it's really started coming into its own - my DPS in fox form is now about the same as in caster mode. But telling new venos unconditionally how great the heavy build was, was just setting them up for a world of hurt and frustration.

A lot of high-level venos are saying how much the magmite sucks, or is overrated. And it is, at their level. From 17 to about the mid-40s the magmite is godly. Nothing else comes close to it. From the 40s on, you start to run into more and more magical mobs, and the magmite's value starts to diminish. It's still a great high-damage pet, and still the best choice (aside from a herc) for those bosses with mainly physical attacks. But those bosses become fewer as you get higher in level.

Still, don't let the level 80+ game influence your level 17-45 game. Get a magmite, try it out and see if you like it. If you stick with it to the 40s and decide you want something else, it's pretty easy to level up a new pet to the 40s in Cube room 4. Should only take about an hour, which IMHO is a small price to pay for the hours the magmite will save you from 17-45.

Even going with that logic though Solandri, it's not only relatively more expensive to upgrade skills at lower levels as coin intake is quite a bit lower, but that 17-45 range is when spirit is most in demand. In the early levels you get enough to buy everything, and then you start having to make choices with skills. Buying more pet skills puts more of a strain on spirit (which is also relatively more expensive) on top of the coin issue.

Those skills do matter, and the difference between the highest and lowest tamed golem at that time is only 1.7 levels worth of stats.
A Crystaline tamed at 17 has Bash 2/Sandblow 1
A Volcanic tamed at 18 has Bash 1/Sandblow 1/Tough
Torgirn Puppet tamed at 29 has Bash 2/Sandblow 1/Tough 1
Torgirn Brave tamed at 32 has Bash 3/Sandblow 1/Tough 1

Considering that, I don't really see how a Crystaline/Volcanic is makes a good recommendation purely on the basis of it's tanking power. The idea of reskilling is one that's based on taking a pet that's worse in the present for something that's stronger in the future which is pretty much the definition of basing your tanking choice off of the best in the 60's, 80's, etc rather than what works best at that moment.

The other thing is, when you get higher a magmite can still hold value, but you need to transition it away from a tanking pet and into something else, so any investment into skills beyond what they come with is one of those things that's really only part of the game until a high level when you don't want to be using it as a tank which then creates even less value for skilling one early on.

One idea I've had for a high level magmite that I really want to try is shriek/threaten/something/something and use it for damage. Maybe howl for the third skill, potentially tough as the fourth. I've noticed, atleast so far that the majority of deadly up close ae's are physical. My thinking is I can use the magmites high physical to help offset those ae's, with shriek also stopping a large chunk of them. Threaten would further weaken ae's to help offset any danger from them. Howl for the added caster dps and then something else.

I could see a magmite like that being a nice help on several fights. Polearm, Gaurnob, Soul Banisher, Lord of Percussion, and so on provided it's not the tank.

CrazyzViet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so after 40+ i should get a cub? cus its phys and mag defence are still quite high or should i get a different pet. im getting a little bored of having to click through a rock alot lol

If you really wanted to experiment, I would also suggest you taming a Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-), preferrably lvl 3. After Herc, Shadou Cub and Armoured bear, the Astral is the next best thing for overall defense, if that's what you want to experiment in. I have one myself and so long as you upgrade it's bash, it has no problem tanking/taking down mobs.
--> Check http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=260362

Again, it depends on your playing style and how much you want to invest in your pet. Rare pets can be anywhere from 800K - 1MIL (at least on my server), but taming a low lvl pet and upgrading it's skill will cost significantly less.

Hope this helps you though.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you use a Crystaline for Bash 2/Sandblow 1 (and in reality most people won't hit sandblow) you're giving up tough which is a very nice tanking boost, even at level 1. If you go for the Volcanic for tough, you're giving up the aggro from bash 2 which isn't an issue at the level you tame it, but is an issue as you get higher. At 29 however you can get the best of both with bash 2 and tough, and at 32 bash 3 which helps a ton with aggro. Especially when you consider that's a free bash 3 and it's 8 levels before you can even consider putting it on a magmite normally.

Or you could goto cube. The amount of exp needed for lower level pets is trivial it's the higher levels that are an issue to level, and by issue I mean, take 10 minutes opposed to 2. Noxious 10 (or any higher rank really) makes very quick work of the mob swarms.

Part 1. I agree, any of the ones in your list will work nicely. And I agree with the level 29 one gives you all 3 skill plus upgraded bash. Personaly I never used tough until much later when using my turtle to tank much higher level mobs. I play kind of safe, so tough as never really been an issue for me. And I like DD, so I was planning on putting 4 attack skills on my CMag, however, the tanks asked for threaten to help with their tanking, so it ended up with 3 attack skills and threaten. So for me it actualy saved me money for not having to forget a skill.

That is true, you could also pick a high level one from AH for very cheap, since lots of people will sell theirs and just use herc for everything.

That depends. Each skill upgrade costs you 200k for the tome, different skills have different spirit needs.
Bash, Flesh Ream, and elemental bashes are 5/10/15/20/25k
Roar, Boost, and Tough are 4/8/12/16/20k (boost caps at level 3)
Howl, Pierce, and Threaten are 8/16/24/32/36k
Shriek and Slow are 10/20/30/40/50k

Do you have the coin and spare spirit to spend on that? If you're adding a new skill there's the cost of the tome as well (and with 4 skills, on it already, also the cost of forgetting a skill). It's pretty costly when the stat difference to get free skill upgrades is so major, it's basically one level of stats for every 10 levels difference in tame levels.

The cub has a place, but it's low attack makes it a poor grinding pet and until the 40's or above the stuff you grind on is mostly pure melee so the magic defense advantage it has doesn't come into play aside from against bosses.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Part 1. I agree, any of the ones in your list will work nicely. And I agree with the level 29 one gives you all 3 skill plus upgraded bash. Personaly I never used tough until much later when using my turtle to tank much higher level mobs. I play kind of safe, so tough as never really been an issue for me.

You should consider using tough if playing it safe. Tough reduces damage intake preventing the pet from dying if you have more than expected, or it reduces the number of heals your pet needs letting you nuke more. Level 1 is 30% for 15 seconds. I assume you're doing something like nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke, dead mob, heal correct? That should take you around 15 sec. 30% means every 3.33 times you use it, it's eaten the damage of an entire fight. Since you (in this hypothetical scenario) would be casting four times per kill, you would be looking at the extra time casting rather than healing to kill something, about once for every 13.33 kills, we can call it a free 1/14 damage, or about a 7.14% damage increase by making heavy use of it. About the same as an elemental bash, except it comes with the mitigation factor as well (though not aggro).

And I like DD, so I was planning on putting 4 attack skills on my CMag, however, the tanks asked for threaten to help with their tanking, so it ended up with 3 attack skills and threaten. So for me it actualy saved me money for not having to forget a skill.

You're also a high enough level to have lots of spare spirit, plus access to a decent amount of coin. If you're actually going to upgrade the pet, there's no question that a lower one is the way to go (I would say Volcanic personally, 3 hp less .1 speed more... the way the mitigation formulas work they're equal in magic/physical resist).

However, from watching a lot of venos, they end up taking the lowest level pet planning to upgrade it some day, and then don't because they realize a herc actually is attainable afterall. Not upgrading your pet often and early makes it worse than the upgrade pets you can tame as you level. This is my point, if you will upgrade then absolutely take that lower level pet, but if like the vast majority of venos you only plan to upgrade it once you can afford it, ditch the pet for a newer model. When you finally reach that future point where you can/want to upgrade, nothing says you can't level up a lower level pet (or buy one).

CrazyzViet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So if i want my cub to hold aggro i need to spam my spells right? and im wondering that 60+ more bosses use magic atk? Also i guess i would be in fbs and bh alot so unless theres no other tank, holding aggro wouldnt be that much of a problem?
b:laugh
edit: i meant my cub's skills and in grinding i wouldnt take on a mob that takes ages to kill

You're going to need to drop something from it (I would recommend dropping pierce) and add bash. Then level Bash/FR. That should be enough, you could keep pounce for additional aggro at times too such as when you get 3 and need some quick aggro on all of them. The stun is rather nice in that situation too.

There's also two other alternatives to Bash, the first would be an elemental bash. If I had to recommend a specific one I would say Toxic Mist, this is because all of our nukes are wood as well, so if this skill scales in damage/aggro to the mob like our nukes do, it will be less aggro on wood creatures which is fine since our nukes do less then too, and more importantly... more aggro on earth creatures where our nukes hit harder and deliver quite a bit more hate towards us. The other alternative would be Roar. I can't comment much on it as I only keep one emergency pet with it incase I let my herc die, but having it on a backup has been a lifesaver. I'm not sure how it would work out on a primary pet.

EvilDragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When tanking in an fb just be aware of archers and wizzards. They easily take over agro. Let them use their weakest attacks. Whole squad died today cuz some archer was trying out his new skill, arrow rain thingy... He stole agro, boss went crazy on mass aoe and we all died. So, if an archer is in your squad..dont let em use that skill!!! Same for wiz lvl 59 attack.
Always upgrade the attack skills of your pet: bash, flesh ream..
There is some skill (dont know the name) that increases attack (dmg) for half hour. With this skill pet can even hold better agro. But if you use it on your cub you need to remove one skill first. Up to you if you do it or not.

We're the lowest aggro class for our pets to keep aggro off of, and can steal from our pets. Saying be aware of archers and wizards is basically saying the pet can't hold aggro. Using weak attacks means less damage to the party, so you're getting hit twice, first in less pet damage and then in less player damage. The quicken effect from pounce is quite a bit of aggro over it's duration as well, so keep that in mind when you do need aggro but remember, it's a 60 sec reuse and to make it level 2 it's going to cost you 200k coin and 50k spirit.

What are the spawning times of the shadou cub?

DMistress - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...As most mobs do phys attack when melee, Golem is better for grinding. ...

They only go into melee mode when attacked by melee. When everything goes as planned every pet can be used for grinding, but it's the accidentally aggroed mobs that frequently do not engage in 'melee mode' and these would be situations where the golem runs more risk of being overwhelmed then a pet with a more balanced defense, like the cub. A faster pet can also more take agro away from the veno faster, should she steps on the toes of some nearby mob.