Veno pros and cons. Questions.

LappDance - Sanctuary · August 2009

First of all, this is a serious question. I'm not intending to troll, and I'm hoping for some serious answers from experienced Venos.

Second, while I am exclusively PVE (have absolutely NO interest in the PVP side), since it may help others the PVP point of view is welcomed.

Third, while I have my eye on the end-game, I have to get there first, so the point of view from all levels is welcomed.

Finally, I apologize if these questions have been asked before, and while I did try to search for answers, a lot of what I found was pretty much flame-fests and name-calling. I'm hoping that we can avoid that in this thread (I know - good luck:), but hope springs eternal...).

1. I came over from Everquest, where I played primarily pet classes (Mage and Beastlord mostly, with some free time spent on my Necro). One of the things I liked about these classes is that they tend to be self-sufficient and solo well, so if I want to log on for an hour and just blow off steam, I can do it no problem. Veno seems to have that in spades. However, I also like to group, and it seems like the biggest complaint about venos is that they have little group desirability - unless you have a herc. Is that true, and is that a recent change? Or were venos pretty much designed that way?

2. Aside from acquiring a herc, is there anything I can work on to make me more desirable in groups? Any particular skill set? I know we can single-pull mobs, but are there more things like that - things that I can start practicing now?

3. Not that it's too late now, but did my choice to go arcane help or hinder my group desirability?

4. What classes complement us most in a grouping situation?

5. What pet is most desirable in a group situation - aside from the herc, of course?

6. Is this somewhat dependent on the other classes in the squad? (I suspect the answer is yes, but I'd like to hear opinions).

Thank you for your time.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Read the guides posted on this board, they are pretty darn good.

As for pets, unless you tanking, the herc is actualy not the best pet to use while in a party (with tanks and clerics, etc), there are other pets that will benefit the party much more, and will also do more damage.

Best squads, imo, are with other venos, since everyone can heal one of the pets, if needed. Or in any squad with a barbarian tanking and clerics, that way you can go full out in damage, have your pet go full out, and you can debuff the mob without having to worry about healing your pet.

Regarding armor, it comes down to personal preference and playstyle, so read the guides for all 3 types.

Keep in mind that venos are the debuffers in this game, we have skills that really help the party taking down the mobs.

Biggest con is that other players that never bothered leveling a veno to high level don't really understand our class, and you have to deal with alot of missinformation and complaining coming from from them.

Feruta - Heavens Tear · August 2009

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

First of all, this is a serious question. I'm not intending to troll, and I'm hoping for some serious answers from experienced Venos.

Second, while I am exclusively PVE (have absolutely NO interest in the PVP side), since it may help others the PVP point of view is welcomed.

Third, while I have my eye on the end-game, I have to get there first, so the point of view from all levels is welcomed.

Finally, I apologize if these questions have been asked before, and while I did try to search for answers, a lot of what I found was pretty much flame-fests and name-calling. I'm hoping that we can avoid that in this thread (I know - good luck:), but hope springs eternal...).

1. I came over from Everquest, where I played primarily pet classes (Mage and Beastlord mostly, with some free time spent on my Necro). One of the things I liked about these classes is that they tend to be self-sufficient and solo well, so if I want to log on for an hour and just blow off steam, I can do it no problem. Veno seems to have that in spades. However, I also like to group, and it seems like the biggest complaint about venos is that they have little group desirability - unless you have a herc. Is that true, and is that a recent change? Or were venos pretty much designed that way?

Venos lure, aside from that they are DD's that won't pull aggro very often, because they are used to using a pet, and our skills don't do as much damage as archer/wiz, which would make us a more versatile DD, that can also back up tank even if you don't have a herc. In an emergency situation, normal pets can usually survive long enough to revive the barb, at least if there it's not a tough boss.

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

2. Aside from acquiring a herc, is there anything I can work on to make me more desirable in groups? Any particular skill set? I know we can single-pull mobs, but are there more things like that - things that I can start practicing now?

You may want to get a few fox skills too help, such as amp damage and purge, they are nice to have in group situations. Also you may want to set a skill barb for debuffing. Such as: Ironwood, fox form, amp damage, and purge.

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

3. Not that it's too late now, but did my choice to go arcane help or hinder my group desirability?

Doesn't really matter, later on you will be able to tank with herc better as arcane.

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

4. What classes complement us most in a grouping situation?

Depends on whether you are the main tank with a herc or not. If you are the tank, Clerics/DD's are the best to have. If you are just luring, then it doesn't really matter as you are the one complementing the other classes.

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

5. What pet is most desirable in a group situation - aside from the herc, of course?

Maybe a scorpion if you aren't tanking as they deal a lot of damage. Also a luring pet such as an eldergoth marksman is a good choice.

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

6. Is this somewhat dependent on the other classes in the squad? (I suspect the answer is yes, but I'd like to hear opinions).

Depends on whether they need a tank, or just someone to lure, so I suppose yes it is dependent on the classes in the squad. Venos are the second best tanks in the game with a herc. They even surpass BM's.

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thank you for your time.

You're welcome, glad to give it.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary · August 2009

LappDance - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. I came over from Everquest, where I played primarily pet classes (Mage and Beastlord mostly, with some free time spent on my Necro). One of the things I liked about these classes is that they tend to be self-sufficient and solo well, so if I want to log on for an hour and just blow off steam, I can do it no problem. Veno seems to have that in spades. However, I also like to group, and it seems like the biggest complaint about venos is that they have little group desirability - unless you have a herc. Is that true, and is that a recent change? Or were venos pretty much designed that way?

Venos are useful in a group because of their luring ability BUT, you will also have to compete with the other 193538756457585 venos for the spot (venos are the most popular class). Chances are, by lvl 70 or so (even if you do not spend $1 on the game) you will have a hercules. By that time, you hit the rebirth gamma level range, veno MUST have hercules to even try to get into a squad (unless you know the other squad members really well).

2. Aside from acquiring a herc, is there anything I can work on to make me more desirable in groups? Any particular skill set? I know we can single-pull mobs, but are there more things like that - things that I can start practicing now?

Hercules will help indefinitely. Other than that, a good amount of hp to survive AoE would help. Not much more you can do other than following the veno guides and get the skills described.

3. Not that it's too late now, but did my choice to go arcane help or hinder my group desirability?
Both LA and Arcane builds are pretty much accepted in squads. Sometimes, arcane would be chosen due to the higher pet healing ability.

4. What classes complement us most in a grouping situation?
Another veno or a cleric.

5. What pet is most desirable in a group situation - aside from the herc, of course?
Shaodu cub for an alternative tank, magmites, a general debuff pet (such as ones with skills that debuff phy. def, magic def, interrupts boss skills, etc) or a ranged marksman.

6. Is this somewhat dependent on the other classes in the squad? (I suspect the answer is yes, but I'd like to hear opinions).
I dont understand this question. Does this refer to question 5

Thank you for your time.

Warning: this is based on my personal experience as a full magic veno on the server, sanctuary.

hope this helps.

Kristiona - Heavens Tear · August 2009

I will try to answer your questions as best as I can. I also came over here from everquest I played a mage in the end but I played a cleric when I first played there.
Veno's seem to have been designed for people who prefer to solo. I have never had a personal issue finding a group myself, though I tend to solo more. When I group most times its with faction members or of course my husbands cleric, he also came over from playing EQ. Not sure our build makes or breaks reason for someone wanting or not wanting us in groups, though I could be wrong. Not sure any one class compliments venos more then another again this is my opinion. As for pets preferred aside from herc not sure of any others that people prefer. Herc pets are usually sought after if the group is lacking a tank because hercs can tank most boss type mobs.

I hope this can help. Honestly I love my veno and most things stated here is not going to be same as others state. We all have our own opinions.

metorica · August 2009

1. There are a -lot- of us who don't want/need a herc and would gladly group regardless. Like Feruta said we don't do much damage, but we can go down quick if we do grab aggro without knowing it unless you have an aggro-happy DDer with you.

2. Mostly you'd want to make things easier for your group. If you're luring a sacrificial, warn them. If you're luring an increased life/defense mob, switch to fox form and amplify once your tank catches it

3. Arcane, LA, HA, it doesn't matter is what's awesome about being a versatile class since it's your own personal choice

4. You can pair up with almost anyone, but if you have a herc you'll most likely be going into places such at HH where you'll have another veno healing your pet if you can't heal it on your own. Some of the times you'll be playing hot potato with aggro between some members of your group and your pet if you don't have a tank

5. There are so many different pet choices you should -never- stick to just 1 pet. For example I use a kowlin to lure, my guildie uses a prickly cactopod.

But just know that there are just as many people out there who prefer veno's without a herc as the ones that do. Knowing how to play the veno is what makes you desirable, not the herc.

(These are my experiences as an LA veno =o)

LappDance - Sanctuary · August 2009

Thank you all for some things to think about. I did read the guides, but they all seem to have a PvP bias, with PvE as an afterthought. I totally understand that, and I respect the fact that PWI appears to be designed - and balanced - around PvP. It's just not MY cup of tea, and I'm looking for more of a PvE point of view. That was why I was asking the questions I did.

It appears that there are a number of things I can do to help out in a squad. I also gather that my best chance of grouping is to join a faction and group with faction-mates.

Xymantha - Dreamweaver · August 2009

IMO if you are doing PvE only and never think about PvP... go full Arcane. Heck.. there's some Venos that are full arcane and still do PvP. Im 3x arcane with the rest into vit.

as per grouping... I tend to solo mostly to be honest. I like that I can do it no problem and get all the money, experience, spirit, and drops without having to split it between a squad. It makes for faster leveling and cash flow. But I've never had an issue with finding a squad either.. probably because of the fact that I have an awesome faction and that when I'm out of quests and left grinding, I help my factions clerics with their stuff so they can level up and help us better in TW and other end game circumstances.

I DON'T have a herc, and never plan on getting one either. I do just fine without one, and as I've put in another thread.. A magmite can tank TT 1-1 in a Veno party. Its always nice to have a cleric around for buffs though.

The reason why people only want a herc veno in squad is because they need a tank for some tough boss and the squad is already filled with people who cant tank it themselves and can't find a barb to tank it for them. So.. if you get denied a party when people are asking for help.. just brush it off and move along. However, I'm inclined to say that if they reject your requests for help just because you dont have a herc - its because they know they cant tank it and dont wanna die - so you need a cleric. BUT.. if you had a herc.. you most likely wouldnt need anyones help anyhow and would rather be the one that everyone else is coming to left and right for help. TBH... I've never seen this whole "no herc no squad" mentality. Maybe that doesn't happen on Dreamweaver - not to my knowledge anyhow.

Veno pros and cons. Questions.

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