Herc aggro skill
crashsmoke
Posts: 37 Arc User
Hi, i'm thinking of changing one of the skill of my herc, I hear pounce is the best skill it can have to hold aggro with much less cooldown, or is there any other herc skill that i could get so the herc can mentain aggro (even lvl 1 skill) enough for me not to steal it. Also how much is a pet skill and is it the same price if i buy the following lvl? Thanks in advance.
Post edited by crashsmoke on
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Nice agro skills:
-bash
-flesh ream
-pounce
(note: bash has lowest cooldown)
New skills dont always have the same price. You have to go to zoologist to check the price of the skill you want.
To upgrade a skill it costs 200k0 -
Bash would probably be the best choice. If you get it, get it to as high as possible. No use of leaving it with lvl 1 bash.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
Thanks alot for the info i appreciate itb:victoryb:thanks0
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Herc's Reflect skill has a big impact on aggro. The harder and faster they melee on the Herc, the more aggro.
Even non damaging applied skills generate aggro based on level. Threaten for instance would reduce phys dmg by up to 36% (lv.5) possibly giving you some time to nuke when spam healing while generating aggro.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
I kept Pounce on mine and I am very happy with it. Even if the mob "resists" the stun, you still get the attack speed bonus, so on bosses, even though I cannot stun them, the Herc will benefit from the faster attack buff. Also nice to go pick up the patrolling mob that went after the cleric... or to catch lured mobs.
For AOE grinding, you are keeping aggro with reflect anyway, not with the aggros kill.
For regular grinding where you only killing 1-2 mobs at the time, there are better pets for that with much higher burst damage potential, from phoenix (the queen of non-instance grinding), to free pets like a golem, scorpion, sawfly (yes, golem for grinding physical mobs, NOT magic attack ones). Obviously they would work better if you have 3 attack skills and howl (for all out damage) or 3 attack skills and tought (for a little more safety). Any other pet with howl 5 would also work nicely for regular grinding, as long as they are able to tank 1 or 2 mobs without you having to stop to heal.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Bash (even level 1) will get you better dps than Pounce does, it will also be better aggro since you can use it far more often which is important when clearing through areas to reach bosses or for grinding.
On bosses themselves, it doesn't really matter what you have since Reflect is the majority of the hercs aggro then, unless it's an archer as those won't take reflect damage.0 -
Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »Bash (even level 1) will get you better dps than Pounce does, it will also be better aggro since you can use it far more often which is important when clearing through areas to reach bosses or for grinding.
On bosses themselves, it doesn't really matter what you have since Reflect is the majority of the hercs aggro then, unless it's an archer as those won't take reflect damage.
For grinding there are far better option than using the herc though....
For my playstyle, which usualy involves a party, if I want DPS I use a scorpion with 2 attack skills and 2 debuffs, the barbs love the threaten skill, and the wizzards love the howl. If I am not in a full party I am play with another veno, the pounce makes for stressfree catching when she lures, since it will stop the mob on its tracks, comes in very handy in FB89 runs I help with.
If I was to go lots of FBs or TT runs solo, I can see how it may be better to have bash, but for my playing style, so far, pounce has been very useful, It may change at a later day, if my playing style changes.
If I am only grinding, than I do not use the herc (unless I am leveling it), I'll use a antelup pup, scorpion, sawfly or golem, depending on what mobs I am killing.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Bash 4 life.Q - How to win on Perfect World?
A - Throw money at it.0 -
Pounce isn't an agro skill at all,get rid of it(unless you really need to stun for some reason)
Herc pounces,i do my first cast since pounce hits and i have agro.
Bash hits,i cast twice and still haven't got agro.
Faster dps for a short time may or may not do more damage in TT bosses over bash(too lazy for math)but it does not hold agro at ALL on anything else.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »I kept Pounce on mine and I am very happy with it. Even if the mob "resists" the stun, you still get the attack speed bonus, so on bosses, even though I cannot stun them, the Herc will benefit from the faster attack buff. Also nice to go pick up the patrolling mob that went after the cleric... or to catch lured mobs.
For AOE grinding, you are keeping aggro with reflect anyway, not with the aggros kill.
Reflect on its own doesn't hold agro past a single aoe cast(unless your standing for ages having your herc hit and reflect mob)but with bash you can hit that mob once,then have herc continue to atatck mob until its bash cooldown is near the halfway mark,then move onto next mob and repeat,then can cast 3 aoes before you draw agro off any(if they aren't dead already)thats the fastest way i've found to safely aoe,reflect+pounce just isn't any good for that.
For regular grinding where you only killing 1-2 mobs at the time, there are better pets for that with much higher burst damage potential, from phoenix (the queen of non-instance grinding), to free pets like a golem, scorpion, sawfly (yes, golem for grinding physical mobs, NOT magic attack ones). Obviously they would work better if you have 3 attack skills and howl (for all out damage) or 3 attack skills and tought (for a little more safety). Any other pet with howl 5 would also work nicely for regular grinding, as long as they are able to tank 1 or 2 mobs without you having to stop to heal.
Yes i double posted,yes i'm a forum idiot.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »Pounce isn't an agro skill at all,get rid of it(unless you really need to stun for some reason)
.
Pounce is rarest of rare. You could probably end up paying as much or more to get it back than a Herc replacement would cost. Not good advice to just trash without some good though on it.
I'd also agree that there are better grinding pets than Herc.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »Pounce isn't an agro skill at all,get rid of it(unless you really need to stun for some reason)
Herc pounces,i do my first cast since pounce hits and i have agro.
Bash hits,i cast twice and still haven't got agro.
Faster dps for a short time may or may not do more damage in TT bosses over bash(too lazy for math)but it does not hold agro at ALL on anything else.
Don't really use it for grinding, since there are better pets for grinding...
Only times I use herc are for bosses, while leveling the herc, or when doing FB79/89 work with another veno, or solo, occasionaly I may use it in TT for the hallways mobs. Although, for TT I do the runs in a party, so I end up using scorpion or golem way more often than the Herc.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Pounce is rarest of rare. You could probably end up paying as much or more to get it back than a Herc replacement would cost. Not good advice to just trash without some good though on it.
I'd also agree that there are better grinding pets than Herc.
As much as I disagree with tweakz on quite a few things, this one I agree, and that is why pounce is still on my herc.
The reason you get herc is for the 5% content that a regular pet just cannot handle, for the remaining 95%, there are pets that outperform the herc, or at least work as well.
So far, I have not come across a situation, where I have to use the herc, where I said "I wish I did not have pounce". However I have came across plenty where either the people I was partied with or myself have said, "dang, pounce really comes in handy".
So, for now, pounce is staying on my herc, until such time as I start wondering what the heck am I doing with that skill.
Also, I did a city of abominations last week with the herc with pounce. Not once was the level 100 BM able to steal aggro from my herc, which ended up tanking most of the mobs we went after. Only person that stole aggro twice in that hour was a level 98 archer, when he demon sparked a mob and critical it with two skills in a row.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »As much as I disagree with tweakz on quite a few things, this one I agree, and that is why pounce is still on my herc.
The reason you get herc is for the 5% content that a regular pet just cannot handle, for the remaining 95%, there are pets that outperform the herc, or at least work as well.
The 5% content,bash's agro hold and damage beats pounce also,only time it'd be better over bash is those really odd occasions the veno or barb faffs up on a non boss mob and you need to catch a mob with a stun...except theres people in a squad that can do just that anyway and better,with a far shorter cooldown
So far, I have not come across a situation, where I have to use the herc, where I said "I wish I did not have pounce". However I have came across plenty where either the people I was partied with or myself have said, "dang, pounce really comes in handy".
In 89's and 99's(or tt/flands for that matter) bash>pounce,when your killing mobs with higher hp than normal you want them dead fast,and the ability to throw your spells in quick succession without taking agro is of paramount importance,i'd rather not wait and space my attacks which you have to do with pounce.
So, for now, pounce is staying on my herc, until such time as I start wondering what the heck am I doing with that skill.
Also, I did a city of abominations last week with the herc with pounce. Not once was the level 100 BM able to steal aggro from my herc, which ended up tanking most of the mobs we went after. Only person that stole aggro twice in that hour was a level 98 archer, when he demon sparked a mob and critical it with two skills in a row.
I'm betting it was reflect holding the agro on those mobs and nothing to do with pounce
Had pounce to 83 myself and got sick of me being the cause of deaths in my squads due to pounces rubbish cooldown and non agro holding,bash helps so much even with hercs low attack power in that regard.
Tweakz,saying get rid of pounce is not bad advice,you have 2 options,keep it,get rid of it,and most venos get rid.(on herc pve ofcourse,for pvp its invaluable)Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
Level 80 herc=2181 attack, .8/sec=12 extra attacks in 15 seconds. 2181*12=26172 damage, 60 sec reuse=436.2 damage/sec. Bash=4362 damage/bash, 7.5 bash/min, that's 32715 damage/min or 545.25 damage/sec. Bash is 25% stronger than Pounce there and can be used far more often (important when you're using it on more than one mob per minute).
Pounce would be an excellent skill but it, like all rare pet skills that aren't buffs, have reuse times that are far too long to make them worthwhile.0 -
MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »QUOTE]
As I said, I am not a zelot about it, when the time comes and it makes sense for me to change the skill I will, it is just that time has not arrived yet, but it may be coming.
In a squad I would be using my scorpion (most of the time) or my golem (for those bosses with physical AOEs), they both better than the herc (if the herc is not tanking) since they have 2-3 attack skills and 2-1 debuffs. With a barb tanking, I can cycle the scorpion's or the golem's skills, and use Howl and threaten to help, while I amp and ironwood the target, plus genie skills. Very often my squad only has one cleric, so he is too busy BBing or healing the tank to be able to debuff the target.
I am sure it was reflect that was holding aggro, with very little help from pounce.
For my playing style, I am mostly "the other veno", since everyone else I play with is higher, including the other veno I play with most of the time, so her herc ends up tanking most stuff, and mine is just there to help (when I use it).
Once I get higher, maybe my playing needs will change, but for now, it is working.. any anyways, it has not costed me anything extra to keep it this way, so if I end up having to change the skill, it is not a big deal.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I got rid of pounce and took bash, and very happy with it, i don't steal agro as much anymore and if i did, mobs comes running after me then 3 steps of it herc gets agro again without the mob even reaching me yet b:chuckle so am pretty satified with the outcome & lvl'd the skill up to 5 which on the other hand pounce was originally only lvl2 (didnt realize that b4) spent 1.2mil on the over all process (removing of pounce, replacing with bash & lvling bash up to max lvl5)
Oh and my herc's name is Tiny, lolz (sounds like a huge guy that just came out of prison and is after your a**) hahahahhahah better watch out lolz0 -
crashsmoke wrote: »I got rid of pounce and took bash, and very happy with it, i don't steal agro as much anymore and if i did, mobs comes running after me then 3 steps of it herc gets agro again without the mob even reaching me yet b:chuckle so am pretty satified with the outcome & lvl'd the skill up to 5 which on the other hand pounce was originally only lvl2 (didnt realize that b4) spent 1.2mil on the over all process (removing of pounce, replacing with bash & lvling bash up to max lvl5)
Oh and my herc's name is Tiny, lolz (sounds like a huge guy that just came out of prison and is after your a**) hahahahhahah better watch out lolz
Umm well,enjoy evading tinys advances to you b:laughQuit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
Pounce does build aggro. It just delivers it in smaller chunks (topping out at level 2 instead of 5), and at much a much slower rate (60 sec cooldown instead of 8). But it does generate aggro.MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »Pounce isn't an agro skill at all,get rid of it(unless you really need to stun for some reason)
Herc pounces,i do my first cast since pounce hits and i have agro.
Bash hits,i cast twice and still haven't got agro.
This is why I didn't have a problem with removing pounce from my herc. The herc is for those tough mobs, especially bosses. But pounce doesn't work on bosses - they automatically resist the stun. So in boss fights, having pounce is like not having a 4th skill at all.IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »The reason you get herc is for the 5% content that a regular pet just cannot handle, for the remaining 95%, there are pets that outperform the herc, or at least work as well.
Against bosses where player damage is reduced (e.g. TT) or who do a lot of melee damage, the herc's reflect is enough to hold aggro. But against ranged or magic bosses, it really needs the extra aggro from a 4th skill if you want the DD classes to be able to open up the floodgates. Especially now that they've added the level blessing inside instances. Archers and wizards can steal aggro from a herc with Bash almost at will. So if the herc is keeping aggro (with any 4th skill), it's as much due to them being good at playing their class as it is the herc's aggro-holding ability.
I removed it from my herc, but I'm very hesitant to remove it from my cub for this reason.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Pounce does build aggro. It just delivers it in smaller chunks (topping out at level 2 instead of 5), and at much a much slower rate (60 sec cooldown instead of 8). But it does generate aggro.
This is why I didn't have a problem with removing pounce from my herc. The herc is for those tough mobs, especially bosses. But pounce doesn't work on bosses - they automatically resist the stun. So in boss fights, having pounce is like not having a 4th skill at all.
Against bosses where player damage is reduced (e.g. TT) or who do a lot of melee damage, the herc's reflect is enough to hold aggro. But against ranged or magic bosses, it really needs the extra aggro from a 4th skill if you want the DD classes to be able to open up the floodgates. Especially now that they've added the level blessing inside instances. Archers and wizards can steal aggro from a herc with Bash almost at will. So if the herc is keeping aggro (with any 4th skill), it's as much due to them being good at playing their class as it is the herc's aggro-holding ability.
I removed it from my herc, but I'm very hesitant to remove it from my cub for this reason.
Even if it did generate agro which i highly doubt(i believe the only agro comes from subsequent hits after pounce has landed)it isn't enough to be of use to anybody unless your magic attack is highly underdevoloped or you enjoy waiting for a minute before hitting your first cast.
Actually i'm going to test this,i'll hit a mob with pounce from nix and try halt bird then before attacking the mob,and see if i'll take agro after taking off my equips and landing a single hit myself.
EDIT I stand corrected,took off my equips and first cast of 1k damage didn't take agro,2nd cast of 1k damage did take agro....so yes it does draw a tiny bit of agro,though not eneough to be of any use.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
I added Bash to my Herc and I love it, but I have a problem. When I added the skill it was sent to the end of the hotkey tab when my Herc is called up. Now when I attack if I don't click on the Bash icon my Herc will not use it, leaving me open to stealing aggro very easily.
Is there a way for me to move the icons around so my Herc will automatically use Bash? I would like to be able to fight without having to worry about constantly setting it off to keep aggro over a group of mobs.
Thanks0 -
_Kae_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I added Bash to my Herc and I love it, but I have a problem. When I added the skill it was sent to the end of the hotkey tab when my Herc is called up. Now when I attack if I don't click on the Bash icon my Herc will not use it, leaving me open to stealing aggro very easily.
Is there a way for me to move the icons around so my Herc will automatically use Bash? I would like to be able to fight without having to worry about constantly setting it off to keep aggro over a group of mobs.
Thanks
Not a way that makes economic sense....Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Yeah, I tested the aggro on most of the skills on my pets a while back, including Pounce (post #15).MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »EDIT I stand corrected,took off my equips and first cast of 1k damage didn't take agro,2nd cast of 1k damage did take agro....so yes it does draw a tiny bit of agro,though not eneough to be of any use.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=259391
But it's nice to get independent confirmation. I suppose I should've posted that link earlier since the OP's question was about aggro skills.
I do agree with you that the aggro it generates is relatively puny, about equal to one or less than one spellcast's worth of damage at level 50+. Add in the 60 sec cooldown and it's virtually the same thing as no aggro.0 -
_Kae_ - Sanctuary wrote: »I added Bash to my Herc and I love it, but I have a problem. When I added the skill it was sent to the end of the hotkey tab when my Herc is called up. Now when I attack if I don't click on the Bash icon my Herc will not use it, leaving me open to stealing aggro very easily.
Is there a way for me to move the icons around so my Herc will automatically use Bash? I would like to be able to fight without having to worry about constantly setting it off to keep aggro over a group of mobs.
Thanks
The only way would be to find all three rare buffs for sale, remove the buffs from your herc, relearn the buffs, and then level them up (and even then it would need to be level 80 to get them back to level 5). So, no. Not really any way, you just have to set it to Bash. If you set bash to auto, then hit your 3 buffs you'll usually manage to avoid having the auto cast not work, but you still need to watch it. If that happens, take it off autocast, use the skill, then put auto cast back on while bash refreshes.0 -
You just know that the day someone here spends the money to do all that, PWI is going to implement a new feature which lets you set which skill is the default when the pet is summoned.Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »The only way would be to find all three rare buffs for sale, remove the buffs from your herc, relearn the buffs, and then level them up (and even then it would need to be level 80 to get them back to level 5).0 -
Since it's not been mentioned - you do know that you can just right click a skill to make it the default?
You have to do it every time that you summon the pet, but since you're going to be putting fatboy's buffs back on anyway, that's hardly a problem.0 -
Different skills will have different purpose... Here's my experience with the following skills max...
1) Bash/flesh ream:
Pro: great for soloing and extra damage. Soloing dungeons where you just have time to sit back and heal ur pet and occasionally sneak in an attack. great cooldown for continuous damage (especially bash). Bosses with a (?) as their lvl, where people's dmg are reduce while pet's damage is still constant, there is close to no way in loosing aggro and you get more damage in killing the bosses faster.
Con: Aggro-wise... as long as your herc doesn't die or you get dc, or you are in a party with pure dex archers or pure magic wizard... you will most likely keep the aggro. Fighting bosses with an actual level (FBs/rebirth order) where every1 is doing full damage, there is a possibility of loosing aggro.. mainly toward the end.
2) Roar:
Pro: No matter what happens (herc dies during the boss fight due to any conditions), you dc and come back, some1 steal aggro... you will grab aggro instantly and Herc's reflect will help the herc's damage to maintain the aggro. 15 sec CD is more than enough to maintain aggro
Con: Roar doesn't do any damage. In case of soloing, it will take a bit longer to kill bosses. Useless in pvp/pk.
I wont bother with pounce for aggro wise.. cooldown is way too long to even do anything =\
Really it is your choice of wat most fit your style of play. I used pounce for awhile since it came with herc. Then I switched to max lvl bash for couple weeks and saw how inconsistent the aggro was when I partied with my friends. Therefore, I switch to Roar max level. Aggro-wise, it was the most consistent and keeping the aggro was close to no trouble for my herc. The only time i have problems with aggro keeping is when I party with friends with HH99 +8, GX+8 or higher... A lot of people will say that bash is very effective in keeping aggro, which is somewhat true, until something really bad happens to your herc or until it looses aggro, then how quick can you grab the aggro back is the next step.
The questions for you to think about, what is your style of play? primarily solo? in party a lot? grind a lot? dungeon a lot? Herc with bash/flesh ream are good for soloing and pvp/pk. Herc with roar are awesome for party base inside close to every dungeons (HH/TT, FBs, rebirth order). My herc was built for party oriented. How well can it tank with people doing the most damage possible and not worried about dying. How well can it help with dungeons run to alleviate the cost for the barb. Herc with any skills will do fine keeping aggros from bosses with (?) as their lvl. The skills will start to play a big factor once you mess around with bosses that has an actual level display. Some may even wonder wat about damage when I pk/pvp... well if i really want to pvp/pk I just pull out my nix =\ even golem/scorp/bee have a higher p.atk than a herc =\ I would rather spend a day in cube of fate to level a golem or scorp for ground pvp/pk where the nix is unabled. (TW used to be a huge factor for that, but now nix are allowed, the only places left for pvp/pk that you cant summon the nix is cube of fate).
Have fun messing around with the skills =P
O_O" just realized how much i just typed... =X0
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