BB for pets also...

Aadi - Lost City · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote:

A pet being able to be healed by a cleric would also make a lot of clerics quit. They already have 5 other people to look out for in instances, why on earth would you add to their misery.

Plus the pet's HP isn't in the party list, how would we ever keep track ;__;

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Aadi - Lost City wrote: »

Plus the pet's HP isn't in the party list, how would we ever keep track ;__;

C'mon now! You know you can heal, buff, heal, buff, attack whats hitting you. Save the tank, while the squishys are yelling help, buff, heal, heal, heal, buff. Save yourself, all before you get blamed for a party wipe. Yeah, why on earth wouldn't you wanna heal a pet too?

Rillien - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Dude. Look at a veno's squad role. It's debuffing/secondary DD/luring. I'm not one of those people that thinks that venos cheat by using pets--their damage is nerfed so they have to use pets. But they are fine the way they are now. Everyone says, oh a veno should be able to do this or that, but the fact is, other classes were designated to fill those roles!

Honestly, I'm so sick of people complaining about balance when all they want are skills that make their classes much easier. The game shouldn't be about pressing the easy buttons and watching colorful animations and pretty numbers pop up. It should take some skill, and all these "improvements" people have been suggesting just makes it easier and easier to sleep in TT runs.

vampirevane · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

C'mon now! You know you can heal, buff, heal, buff, attack whats hitting you. Save the tank, while the squishys are yelling help, buff, heal, heal, heal, buff. Save yourself, all before you get blamed for a party wipe. Yeah, why on earth wouldn't you wanna heal a pet too?

Seriously , You just don't get it do you? I never said let Clerics heal the pets, I said let the pets BE ABLE TO BENEFIT from Clerics BB Skill WHILE in a Squad.

Read before posting please and Stick to the OP. b:bye

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Originally Posted by Mothergoose - Sanctuary
Encouraging venos to join squads instead of go it alone is hardly a bad thing for everyone concerned. Right now, venos have no reason to even bother with a squad. Other squad members offer nothing to the veno except leeching off drops. Making it so that another class actually offers some benefit to veno/herc, as far as I can see, is in fact strengthening the other class.

=========================================================

I would like the world to see that you just admitted. As things are, venos have NO reason to even bother with a squad. Meaning the class is clearly one that has way more advantages than any other class. I squaded with a veno friend of mine for 68 levels, he never ONCE indicated that I was "leeching" anything. If anything when he got in trouble all I saw was HELP HELP HELP. That was before herc tho. He got a Herc and a Phoenix and quit playing the class. As OMGLazerz states, if you wanna play easy breezy cover girl, get a herc. In other words, the game is played for you with little to no effort. This alone is why many who could have a herc, chose to not have one.

Bull,you give as much effort as any other class playing,especially instances,infact you spend 3 times as long soloing these things as veno than you would in a squad.The way most of you people talk on here it seems to me you're all just banging on about venos killing normal everyday mobs lol...thats easy for all classes.

Go do an unwined fb 89 for starters,then come back here and say venos that use herc for something like that use little effort

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No "may" to it. This WOULD happen. And boy don't I know it, the sad thing is the classes that are most fun to play, no one wants. Faster kills benefit any and everyone who doesn't want to spend an hour doing what they could do in 30 minutes.

Your idea of fun is another persons idea of boredom

Aadi - Lost City · August 2009

vampirevane wrote:

Seriously , You just don't get it do you? I never said let Clerics heal the pets, I said let the pets BE ABLE TO BENEFIT from Clerics BB Skill WHILE in a Squad.

Read before posting please and Stick to the OP. b:bye

BB heals as well as its other effect. Also, it wouldn't make much sense to make one skill in the healing line affect pets and not the rest, since they're all part of the same group of spells.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · August 2009

So venos still have no reason to join a squad, and you still have to wait an hour for a barb to become available instead of having a herc tank. Hey, if you guys want to make things difficult for yourself, that's fine.

I was just pointing out that making cleric BB affecting veno pet simply benefits the squad as a whole, not the veno, as they cannot bb. Venos can just farm the bosses that they can handle, hog and sell all the mats, like they do now.b:chuckle

Venos are already independent, and you would have it so that they still have no reason to bother joining a squad. Having a cleric's BB not affecting pets nerfs the cleric, not the veno. It's the cleric's skill that's nerfed.

Rillien - Heavens Tear · August 2009

^^ Point is, you're phasing out a barb's squad role. People don't roll barbs as much anymore, which just increases reliance on veno tanks which perpetuates this problem. There aren't enough bosses that only barbs can handle. If you made BB affect pets too, then squad mode AOE bosses suddenly become possible, and the only thing a barb has over a herc is the ability for a barb to be purified b:surrender.

Isala - Sanctuary · August 2009

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^ Point is, you're phasing out a barb's squad role. People don't roll barbs as much anymore, which just increases reliance on veno tanks which perpetuates this problem. There aren't enough bosses that only barbs can handle. If you made BB affect pets too, then squad mode AOE bosses suddenly become possible, and the only thing a barb has over a herc is the ability for a barb to be purified b:surrender.

Indeed. That abomination of a pet has ruined the entire game. It's either Herc or nothing now. Barbs are only wanted for bosses a herc can't do, and those are far and few between. It's a matter of people, not just Venos, being lazy. Because, really, in the case of a Herc in a squad, who's really doing the most work? The Veno. Everyone else is just DD. People talk about lazy Venos etc, but who do they ask for help 9 times out of 10? A Herc Veno. Pathetic, is what it is, honestly.

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Your idea of fun is another persons idea of boredom

I have every class to play except barb. I got a veno up to lvl 10 and didn't like it. I love playing wizard, I enjoy archer, cleric is even fun when ppl aren't snipping at you. BM wasn't all that fun to me but it was ok. I think that my idea of fun, is probably at least half of the other part of PW's idea as well. Since the game isn't made up of just barbs and venos.

Any veno with a half decent pet can tank and solo an fb 19 by the level of 25? Or close to. Name me another class that can do that? I know a lvl 69 veno that was killing lvl 92 creatures no problem. You don't see something seriously messed up with that?

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

So venos still have no reason to join a squad, and you still have to wait an hour for a barb to become available instead of having a herc tank. Hey, if you guys want to make things difficult for yourself, that's fine.

It may be that way on Sanctuary, or maybe its just me. I generally have no problem getting a barb for what I need accomplished. Then again, maybe there is just excess of them on HT. Or perhaps the barbs on HT are more friendly than those on other servers. I don't know. But with the venos taking over the tanking jobs, barbs are more available.

I was just pointing out that making cleric BB affecting veno pet simply benefits the squad as a whole, not the veno, as they cannot bb. Venos can just farm the bosses that they can handle, hog and sell all the mats, like they do now.b:chuckle
I think that this right here is exactly the reason that they are flamed so much. Venos (again generally speaking not pointing at you)as a whole don't want help. Most people (again not all) who roll a veno have done so because they have seen that it is a class that can afford to be greedy. You can fight alone. You don't really need help. Therefore everything that drops, is yours. You don't have to share.

Venos are already independent, and you would have it so that they still have no reason to bother joining a squad. Having a cleric's BB not affecting pets nerfs the cleric, not the veno. It's the cleric's skill that's nerfed.
I personally have a veno friend who does not have a herc, nor a phoenix. She has said she'd like to have a phoenix but refuses to get a herc. You are forgetting here, a squad of 6 (1 of every class in the game) makes an unbeatable force in any instance. But my friend is better than any veno I've known with a herc and a phoenix. She has several pets she uses for different things of course and she would prefer to be with a squad than be on her own just for the company of ppl. Of course my opinion doesn't count for all of PWI but I believe implementing something of this nature would kill the game. Who would want to play? And not everyone wants to play a veno.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · August 2009

Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^ Point is, you're phasing out a barb's squad role. People don't roll barbs as much anymore, which just increases reliance on veno tanks which perpetuates this problem. There aren't enough bosses that only barbs can handle. If you made BB affect pets too, then squad mode AOE bosses suddenly become possible, and the only thing a barb has over a herc is the ability for a barb to be purified b:surrender.

Those are all good points. But the problem is that what has already been done cannot be undone. PWI can stop selling hercs or give it a large nerf, but that'll cost them a lot of money. There's no way they'll go for that. Giving barbs more tanking ability will hardly help, as they can already tank everything, there aren't any extra bosses that they can tank while herc can't, without a herc nerf.

Now, we can either alleviate the problem by giving venos a reason to get back into squads, or keep things as they are, with everyone else getting nothing, venos soloing, and barbs often not available.

Isala - Sanctuary · August 2009

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Those are all good points. But the problem is that what has already been done cannot be undone. PWI can stop selling hercs or give it a large nerf, but that'll cost them a lot of money. There's no way they'll go for that. Giving barbs more tanking ability will hardly help, as they can already tank everything, there aren't any extra bosses that they can tank while herc can't, without a herc nerf.

Now, we can either alleviate the problem by giving venos a reason to get back into squads, or keep things as they are, with everyone else getting nothing, venos soloing, and barbs often not available.

See, there's plenty of Venos in parties. But only with their friends. If a Veno doesn't have a good reason for being in a party, they won't do it. And joining a squad of people that they don't know is pointless, when they can do the same job alone, and be guaranteed everything from it.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · August 2009

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

See, there's plenty of Venos in parties. But only with their friends. If a Veno doesn't have a good reason for being in a party, they won't do it. And joining a squad of people that they don't know is pointless, when they can do the same job alone, and be guaranteed everything from it.

Exactly, having bb affecting pet is hardly giving venos an extra advantage that they don't have already. Let's face it, they can just solo for even higher profit anyway.

This would mean 3 things:
1) When venos need TT mats for crafting from bosses that they cannot solo, they would join squads and help others along the way, instead of going through the hassle of soloing soloable bosses, sell off mats, and buy mats they need.
2) When venos don't have the 2+ hours needed to solo a dungeon due to real life issues, they can just help out a squad and make a quick, complete run in, say, 1 hour. The profit per hour won't be as high, but it beats idling.
3) When there are no barbs available (happens frequently in some servers), a squad can make a full run instead of waiting an hour for one or giving up.

In all situations, the other members of the squad benefited, not so just the veno herself. It's a matter of encouraging cooperation, not buff or nerf a certain class.

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have every class to play except barb. I got a veno up to lvl 10 and didn't like it. I love playing wizard, I enjoy archer, cleric is even fun when ppl aren't snipping at you. BM wasn't all that fun to me but it was ok. I think that my idea of fun, is probably at least half of the other part of PW's idea as well. Since the game isn't made up of just barbs and venos.

Any veno with a half decent pet can tank and solo an fb 19 by the level of 25? Or close to. Name me another class that can do that? I know a lvl 69 veno that was killing lvl 92 creatures no problem. You don't see something seriously messed up with that?

Nope,its good business sense to also cater for the lone type of player,not everyone enjoys having to spend hours even days at a time finding a squad to help them in quest progression and cultivations,get rid of veno class and you lose some of your playerbase.

Well done on the 69 killing a 92 mob,that is seriously messed up aye, wasting 10 minutes of your life spam healing the pet to kill a mob that will drop nothing and give rubbish exp.

Tbh i'm pretty sick of seeing forum posts by people that play a veno to not even lvl 50 and then cry how easy they got it compared to everyone else,yall love the veno when they helping you tank your TT's cause barbs have already got their gears and then give up on guildmates reaching for theirs(see it all too often)yall love the veno when helping you kill world bosses with the nix's damage,yall love the veno debuffing,fleshreaming,amping the enemy in tw...yeah until that same veno actually needs help from you,then sudddenly your squad mates dissapear:O....most probably to forums for a good moan b:laugh

For most venos they'll spend endgame life endlessly farming instances at 4-6 hours at a time or helping others by filling in for the MIA barbs who cry their role is being taken when infact they just don't wanna waste money and time on charms for the benefit of others.

Not relying on others=fun to me btw

Turned into a mini rant there but oh well,every other class does it daily on here.

On topic,BB affecting pets=stoopid.

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Exactly, having bb affecting pet is hardly giving venos an extra advantage that they don't have already. Let's face it, they can just solo for even higher profit anyway.

This would mean 3 things:
1) When venos need TT mats for crafting from bosses that they cannot solo, they would join squads and help others along the way, instead of going through the hassle of soloing soloable bosses, sell off mats, and buy mats they need.
2) When venos don't have the 2+ hours needed to solo a dungeon due to real life issues, they can just help out a squad and make a quick, complete run in, say, 1 hour. The profit per hour won't be as high, but it beats idling.
3) When there are no barbs available (happens frequently in some servers), a squad can make a full run instead of waiting an hour for one or giving up.

In all situations, the other members of the squad benefited, not so just the veno herself. It's a matter of encouraging cooperation, not buff or nerf a certain class.

would you please make up your mind which side you are on? You seem in one post to the OP to be encouraging the buff. Then in other posts you seem to be thinking it would be a discouraging thing.

In one post you give the reasons why this would be good, and then in this one explain how it wouldn't change things at all. B/c they can already do things solo anyways.

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nope,its good business sense to also cater for the lone type of player,not everyone enjoys having to spend hours even days at a time finding a squad to help them in quest progression and cultivations,get rid of veno class and you lose some of your playerbase.

Well done on the 69 killing a 92 mob,that is seriously messed up aye, wasting 10 minutes of your life spam healing the pet to kill a mob that will drop nothing and give rubbish exp.

Tbh i'm pretty sick of seeing forum posts by people that play a veno to not even lvl 50 and then cry how easy they got it compared to everyone else,yall love the veno when they helping you tank your TT's cause barbs have already got their gears and then give up on guildmates reaching for theirs(see it all too often)yall love the veno when helping you kill world bosses with the nix's damage,yall love the veno debuffing,fleshreaming,amping the enemy in tw...yeah until that same veno actually needs help from you,then sudddenly your squad mates dissapear:O....most probably to forums for a good moan b:laugh

For most venos they'll spend endgame life endlessly farming instances at 4-6 hours at a time or helping others by filling in for the MIA barbs who cry their role is being taken when infact they just don't wanna waste money and time on charms for the benefit of others.

Not relying on others=fun to me btw

Turned into a mini rant there but oh well,every other class does it daily on here.

On topic,BB affecting pets=stoopid.

LOL!!! Most of the time I agree with your posts. Some times I dont. As long as your ranting hurts no one, its all good

I don't do TT runs, it costs me more in MP charms, and often experience; to do several to get my gear than it does to just buy it. However; if a friend needs to do it for the quests involved I am there.

My mother has a veno, she loves it. She's 51 years old and it really helps her not have to concentrate so much on many things at a time. For someone with ADD that is a good thing. I am not saying the class should be nerfed, I'm not saying that it should be taken out, what I am saying is that the class is already viewed as an OP class by most. Why make this worse? Why cause more issue with the veno then there already is? I just wanna play the game and have fun, its why I've rolled everything except a barb (cause I can't be a girl). I'd also like the game to have more balance, and I don't just mean skills. I mean everyone should have the same opportunity to grind equally as the rest. Especially clerics/wizards who lack in that area. It would be quite the opposite if a Cleric could solo everything and no one else could.

In TT runs I've chosen to do for friends, I have found that a barb, coupled with a veno; is an unbeatable force. Everyone should be needed in this game, it is after all the reason all classes were formed. Thats my main gripe alone. The veno skills with and without pets are what they are, I don't know a solution to the ongoing issue.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

would you please make up your mind which side you are on? You seem in one post to the OP to be encouraging the buff. Then in other posts you seem to be thinking it would be a discouraging thing.

In one post you give the reasons why this would be good, and then in this one explain how it wouldn't change things at all. B/c they can already do things solo anyways.

The cleric buff(yes, a buff to the cleric BB skill, as opposed to a veno buff) would help nonvenos have an easier time with TT. People assume it would only helps venos. For venos, it wouldn't change things at all, since they can already solo and reap the profits. It would just help everyone else.

Feles - Dreamweaver · August 2009

I have to agree with the others in saying that BB shouldn't effect pets. Knowing when to have the pet out and when not to should be part of the things ALL veno's should know and frankly any pet replacing a "Tank" class is wrong and should never happen but then many people are lazy and rather take the easy way out instead of having to think.

XbladeXBm - Dreamweaver · August 2009

Maybe a weaker version should affect pets............... just not herc's b:laugh

Then atleast those veno's who cant afford a cash pet would be more wanted in squads

Isala - Sanctuary · August 2009

BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For someone with ADD that is a good thing.

I have ADHD, and it actually helps me to focus on a lot of things at once. That way, I don't get bored focusing on one thing.

BratFury - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have ADHD, and it actually helps me to focus on a lot of things at once. That way, I don't get bored focusing on one thing.

That is a bit different tho. ADHD is close, but not totally the same as ADD. With the H added in there, it becomes something a bit different. I'd say that it probably causes the hyperactivity part to calm down.

Different things for different ppls.

Sabre - Harshlands · August 2009

Lol, and while they do that, give barbs there own personal npc cleric that heals them, that can be lvled just like the venos pets!
Sounds about fair, don't ya think?

Mothergoose - Sanctuary · August 2009

Sabre - Harshlands wrote: »

Lol, and while they do that, give barbs there own personal npc cleric that heals them, that can be lvled just like the venos pets!
Sounds about fair, don't ya think?

Frankly, it does. Kinda like genie, but better. At least that means more people will be rolling barbs. Herc or barbs, it doesn't matter, as long as there are some tanks out there. Right now, tanks are plainly not available, and it's making the game unnecessarily difficult.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver · August 2009

vampirevane wrote: »

Lol!! actually Charms on pets wou'nt be bad .. more $ for Pwi!

LOL! that was a joke...........b:surrender

while they are at it why not make wizards do even more damage and immune to physical attacks and the bleed effectb:chuckle

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Right now, tanks are plainly not available, and it's making the game unnecessarily difficult

All those who feel there's not enough Barbs on Sanc................. Roll a Barb = Problem solved

b:bye

Misc - Heavens Tear · August 2009

Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Roll a Veno = Problem solved

Fixed.
10 chars

Skimi - Dreamweaver · August 2009

clerics already have to look over whole party and we have to click on pets to even see pet hp. if they would make pets healable i still would heal mainly people as they lose exp when die, could care less about pets what venos can heal themself

Alyyy - Sanctuary · August 2009

this is onyl for CLERIC's to decide all of you do nto have the right <.<

ewen if this would hapen i wouldnt BB out of protest

Brael - Dreamweaver · August 2009

It would be bad for the game really. The main weakness of a herc is its hp. If it could have BB mitigation, that's effectively the same thing as doubling it's hp and doubling a veno's heal. What that leads to is almost no bosses requiring barb's and that leaves them in a bad spot seeing as how they're supposed to be (and are) the top tank. Honestly, if a herc is getting the benefits from RB (haven't checked this to see if that's the case), that should be changed too, our dd pets like scorpions, phoenix's, and so on don't need a damage boost on top of what they already have.

That said, I for one am absolutely sick of the anti veno QQ, especially those who decry their hatred of veno's on the boards yet ingame will beg veno's to help them with FB's or the bosses they need that aren't in FB's because they can't get a squad yet at the same time refuse to let veno's into zhen groups or rebirth. Last night I saw a good 50 WC's asking for people for RB, every single class was asked for too except for one... venomancers. I even answered a couple of them and got the response of "sorry, no veno's". The most amusing part of that to me, was the guy that told me no was a guy I did an untabbed FB for a couple weeks back, who didn't think he would get it done because he couldn't get a tank/cleric together for it.

Those of you that hate hercs fine, go ahead and hate them but stop demanding we have them to get into your FB squads, and then want to use them to help you get your FB's/quest bosses but are unwilling to group us otherwise. Just because veno's can solo quite well (it is our class strength after all, even on the website class descriptions) doesn't mean we all want to solo all of the time.

Those of you that hate nix's, give it a rest. You hate flesh ream, not nix's (it's also quite odd it's barb's who complain about this the most, you're the least vulnerable to a nix). The two have nothing to do with each other. Though I suspect that if FR wasn't bugged, you would find another reason to hate them, maybe because of how much damage they put out. Oh ya, and FR is bugged against us too, level differences affect the damage it does unlike other pet skills. It usually does less damage than a Bash in PvE and has nearly twice the reuse time.

In short, if you hate veno's so much stop asking us for help, and then refuse to let us into your RB/Zhen/TT/grinding squads.

Alyyy - Sanctuary · August 2009

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In short, if you hate veno's so much stop asking us for help, and then refuse to let us into your RB/Zhen/TT/grinding squads.

rofl? a TT without a veno....<.<.....yea...

*imagines it*

me: wtf? >.< why isnt there a veno in squad
party:we dun like venos we just QQ about them....
me:<.<...who lures o.o
party: the archer is
me:.....if u all die including me i am not rezing u -_-*gets aside rdy to use holy path*
archer: wtf i died RUN RUN*mobs come after whole party*
@&%$@# has left the party*
me:ok <.< the barb just exited*uses holy path and a chanel pill and escapes*

*stops imagening*

b:cutesee? venos are needed

BB for pets also...

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