Archers Should have Crit Rate Buff?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Guardgodess - Sanctuary wrote: »

just for the record, bramble guard is a useful buff when you are fighting against those nasty, physical aoe bosses. bramble can add a decent amount of DD when casted on squad members, as it reflects a decent amount of the aoe damage.

Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote again.

Zanira - Sanctuary · July 2009

DevoL - Lost City wrote: »

i wouldnt mind having bramble or the water buff (lvl10 increases attack alot) @_@

Lets just trade wizards with evasion/speed buff lol. One hand blue the other one red b:pleased

The "red hand" u are referring to isnt the evasion/speed buff archers have. It's blazing arrow that makes our hands glow red.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · July 2009

Aldryami - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbs have the highest HP in PW...I cant believe they would have a buff for more............duh.

Crit buff for archers is an excellent idea. Get rid of the evasion/speed buff, it is almost useless.

You forget its because the barbs high HP and clerics constant cures that allow you to attack and crit the mobs continuously without being mauled like one of your stick arrows. Of course they need high HP, their wiping the **** of one of the most unsoloable PvE classes in PWI, while they mindlessly crit their head off, most of which dont even know how to measure aggro by spacing out their attacks. Unless your just planning to buy 40-50M+ worth of TT80s 90s gear, youll be near willing to pay them to get high HP, hell happy youll even get a barb that constantly goes TT.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · July 2009

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

archers dont need a crit buff, a good geared demon one can easily get ~40% crit at 89+ ~_~

add in their attack speed buffs from demon spark, rank 4 armor, TT90 gold, and/or crimson horn... and you have one nasty class >.>

If a good geared demon archer can "easily" get 40% at 89 I must be a total fail for having 28% at level 97.

The only "easy" demon skills are Blazing Arrow, Take Aim, and Frost Arrow. None help your crit at all.

Ohh and I'm pretty sure frost blade works like the archer skill blazing arrow. Adds a % of weapon attack as elemental damage to normal attacks. The only difference is that its water and not fire and goes on the right hand and not the left.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear · July 2009

You obviously have not done any research on what level it takes to learn those skills as well as how hard it is to get those books. And as for the crit bonus for X seconds skills, they eat MP like nuts and have their own cooldown. If you stack them the first few will prob wear off before you finish buffing. It just doesn't work that way.

XxHKSSxx - Heavens Tear · July 2009

i have done my research xD

most of the 92 skills he/she mentioned is from fb109 which isnt even out yet i think. and the demon sharptooth is 99 skill from cube.
winged blessing and bow mastery has crit, but its from fb99 with 1% drop rate. how rare is it?

but i agree that the evasion buff dont really do much difference. maybe make evasion more useful rather than just some numbers and more random misses.

Mosz - Heavens Tear · July 2009

XxHKSSxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i have done my research xD

most of the 92 skills he/she mentioned is from fb109 which isnt even out yet i think. and the demon sharptooth is 99 skill from cube.
winged blessing and bow mastery has crit, but its from fb99 with 1% drop rate. how rare is it?

but i agree that the evasion buff dont really do much difference. maybe make evasion more useful rather than just some numbers and more random misses.

rebirth/arena too
.1% droprate, wish it was 1%

Aldryami - Sanctuary · July 2009

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

You forget its because the barbs high HP and clerics constant cures that allow you to attack and crit the mobs continuously without being mauled like one of your stick arrows. Of course they need high HP, their wiping the **** of one of the most unsoloable PvE classes in PWI, while they mindlessly crit their head off, most of which dont even know how to measure aggro by spacing out their attacks. Unless your just planning to buy 40-50M+ worth of TT80s 90s gear, youll be near willing to pay them to get high HP, hell happy youll even get a barb that constantly goes TT.

You did not register my irony?

I was attempting to imply that crit is to an archer what HP are to a barb.

The barb is graced with high hp. The archer is graced with high crit.

In response to the ill-thought-out argument that because archer crit is high they should not have a crit buff I attempted to point out that barbs have a hp buff even though they have high hp.

I am GLAD the barbs have a hp buff. I would also be glad if the archers (and any other class with useless buffs) had a useful buff.

I hope now you more clearly understand the intention behind my irony.

DevoL - Lost City · July 2009

Zanira - Sanctuary wrote: »

The "red hand" u are referring to isnt the evasion/speed buff archers have. It's blazing arrow that makes our hands glow red.

lol i know if we traded buffs with a wizard we would have water attack and and fire attack buffs. Sorry for the confusion b:surrender

Gerrat - Sanctuary · July 2009

what I miss at PWI are atk speed buffs / chan speed buffs. Would be cool if we Archer gets them :P

Ormindo - Heavens Tear · July 2009

+ $d245777abca64ece2d5d7ca0d19fddb6.png$ for the attack speed buff!

Draco_lust - Sanctuary · August 2009

Ehhh just a wizzys response....it seems as if our water spell sucks majorly....its suppose to increase the dmg by 12% of our base magic dmg at lvl 1....which right now unbuffed would be an extra 200 dmg off of me....yet if i sit there and watch nothing changes...plus another pretty useless spell for the wizards is our healing spell....At my level im taking 300-400 dmg a hit...this spell takes enough time for 2-3 hits to be landed on me....and it only heals 780 at lvl 4(Which is messed up cause its suppose to be 580 +17% of base which is 1897)...so by the time it is casted its useless because you already lost the life you recover by casting it....I know wizards arent meant for anything other than major dmg...but seriously we arent much good without at least a decent buff to help us...we get killed at the worst times....plus people say we dont have to pay equipment costs....to get lvl 56 alone with no deaths at all cost me almost 200k in repairs...not as bad as the barbs or bms but bad enough...and i dont even have any legendary equipment

Alyyy - Sanctuary · August 2009

wrote:

archers dont need a crit buff

yes....why would u guys need a crit buff if ur crits are alreay high? i mean lol?

for the wiz above dont QQ about wizards and learn to kite if u dont wana get hit lol

yes.....wizard=suicide unless ur charmed lol(or if u know how to play)

Draco_lust - Sanctuary · August 2009

lol im pretty good at not getting hit...its just people dont need to complain about their classes cause everybody has problems lol...but overall its pretty balanced...although ther emight be a need for a check on the frostblade to make sure it works lol

Alyyy - Sanctuary · August 2009

lol im pretty good at not getting hit...its just people dont need b:quietlol eweryone needs to pay 4 repairs....exept venos......well they pay the weps....maybe >.>

>.>

Draco_lust - Sanctuary · August 2009

lol whyd you respond to that post with something about repair costs....confuses the **** outta me lol....but theres people saying wizzys are easy cause they have no repair costs lmao

Cbastor - Lost City · August 2009

i think instead of archers having an evasion buff they should have a pt accuracy buff and wizzard should give magic def buff instead of water attack or w/e

Kapacity - Sanctuary · August 2009

Yes, our Evasion Buff is pretty useless. I've recalled getting hit less without my buff so go figure >.>. Still...Getting a Crit% buff wouldn't be the best option, we have enough crit already and its not really necessary in my Opinion.
I read all the posts and my favourite, by far, is the Attack rate buff. Sure it doesn't benefit magic users, but they have their "magic only" buffs as well

. An Accuracy buff would be good too, at least it can really benefit us and meleers too since we all hate missing >.>

On a Wiz's position, I don't really know. I thought their Water Buff was useful since they added water damage to their attacks(Like Blazing Arrow unless I'm mistaken).

Lady_Selan - Sanctuary · August 2009

The wizard's frost blade ONLY affects physical attack damage which is something a wizard simply doesn't do. It needs to be replaced with a mag attack buff if anything.

Archers critical rate is fine like it is and they already out damage wizards in terms of dps, and archers have a shield skill to help out. If an archer takes the demon path, their critical chances will be much higher.

Their evasion/speed buff is NOT useless. It comes in handy while holy path is in cooldown while inside dungeons for example. If you focus on evasion gear, this buff will make it much easier too. Best part it affects everyone around you that's in your squad given the ones without decent speed the much needed speed. Of course it isn't very useful as other buffs but the point is it's not useless unlike a wizard's frost blade to themselves.

truekossy · August 2009

Don't feel like quote chaining. Sue me.

Lady_Selan - Sanctuary wrote: »

The wizard's frost blade ONLY affects physical attack damage which is something a wizard simply doesn't do.But it DOES help melee classes, so it's not like it's completely useless. It needs to be replaced with a mag attack buff if anything.

Archers critical rate is fine like it is and they already out damage wizards in terms of dps, and archers have a shield skill to help out. Do you mean that winged shell thing? The one that seems awesome when we get it and as time goes on we learn it breaks in... say... one hit from anything?. If an archer takes the demon path, their critical chances will be much higher. Yeah it'll be a bit higher but see what was already posted about our skills, MP costs, cooldowns, etc. If a Demon archer tried to full buff themselves with stacking their skills for crit, the crit boost from the first skill would wear off long before they got to their last one.

Their evasion/speed buff is NOT useless. Oh yes it is. It comes in handy while holy path is in cooldown while inside dungeons for example. 6 squad members = constant holy path if all squad members have it and choose to use it. Also it gets replaced when ANY OTHER speed buff is used, so the archer would have to constantly re-use it if holy path were being used, or apo pots for that matter.Besides, the cooldown isn't an issue for Holy Path. Just the cost in stamina (and energy if you have below 150 on your genie). Oh and if we really needed the speed boost, our level 79 skill, or even Wings of grace would do a fine job of that, thanks. If you focus on evasion gear, this buff will make it much easier too. Evasion? Magic never misses and we have no self heal outside of tree, charms, and pots... which are available to everyone. Besides with how cheap misties are now, it's gonna be a tad bit difficult dodging anything that easily. There's a reason why even on the archer subforums, nobody ever recommends trying to focus on evasion. Not. Worth. It.. Best part it affects everyone around you that's in your squad given the ones without decent speed the much needed speed. See our non-useless skill we can cast on the slow cleric/wiz that actually gives them a noticeable speed boost. Then again, lolholypath. Of course it isn't very useful as other buffs but the point is it's not useless unlike a wizard's frost blade to themselves. Bolded your key words right there. May be useless to themselves (unless you're some sort of HA wiz with calamities or something. lol) but ISN'T useless to... hmm... BMs, Barbs, Fox Venos, and Archers. A buff for a stat that doesn't do anything in PvE and is sickeningly easy to counter in PvP, or that will be overwritten the instant you use any type of movement enhancing ability? I'd rather have a cleric's m.atk buff since at least then my buff would be more than decoration for others (even if it wouldn't do a thing for me).

Draco_lust - Sanctuary · August 2009

truekossy what you said about the wizards spell not being useless for others pretty much is what you guys are complaining about with the archers....your skill isnt a MAJOR help to you so your complaining at least its a help at all...

truekossy · August 2009

That's the thing. Our skill isn't a major help to ANYONE.

From a PvP standpoint:
Barbs will have low evasion anyway from low dex and will be more focused on taking the hits than dishing them out.
Mages/Clerics will have pretty much nonexistent evasion to begin with (meaning a percentage increase won't help much unless it's like our useless 1000% evasion buff which doesn't really do much fo the cost or duration0
Vit BMs don't have much in terms of evasion. Dex BMs already have realized it won't help that much against those with misties (which are incredibly cheap now) and accuracy pots exist for those without them.
Unless you're a LA veno, again not much evasion to start with. Plus they'd have the same problems as others with it. magic doesn't miss and it's pathetically easy to boost accuracy.
Speed boost? Use some other kind of speed boost (most of which will give above the 15% this buff has). Original speed boost is now gone.

From a PvE standpoint:
Ask any archer how often monsters that attack them actually miss. That should make it obvious enough. As for the speed boost, same as above. Every other one will override this buff.

As it stands, this skill pretty much has one real use: generating chi outside of combat. Oh wait, blazing arrow can do the same thing AND gives us a useful effect.

Draco_lust - Sanctuary · August 2009

i was thinking that to...what mana cost is your blazing arrow and how much chi does it recover?

Isala - Sanctuary · August 2009

truekossy wrote: »

That's the thing. Our skill isn't a major help to ANYONE.

Unless you're a LA veno, again not much evasion to start with. Plus they'd have the same problems as others with it. magic doesn't miss and it's pathetically easy to boost accuracy.

LA Fox Veno, here. Do you realize what power the Archer's evasion buff holds to not only Fox Venos, but also LA Wizards? We both have skills that reduce accuracy, and if we shard ourselves with Evasion? Giving us an Archer's Eva Buff is like giving us God Mode. Yes, I know, Magic doesn't miss, but who sends casters after magic classes anyway? You send Archers. Archers who have a tendency to miss. They miss even more when you've got a metric ton of Evasion on your side.

Also? It's pathetically easy to boost Evasion, as well. There are several items I know of that give + Eva. There are TT rings that give + 30% Eva, an Eva Necklace with + 10% eva, a Magic Defense Belt with + 10 Eva. That's 80% right there, and Eva is also easier to shard than Accuracy. The catch is? Everyone thinks Eva is useless, so nobody looks into these things. Maybe people should start.

truekossy · August 2009

~200ish at max and recovers 10 chi.

Though we have the free spark skill at level100 (for 1k chi lol) and chi pots are a pretty common way of getting it when you're out of the lower levels.

Personally, I'd prefer it either be made to some more useful type of buff (move speed, lowering channel, increasing FLIGHT speed, possibly an accuracy boost, maybe a small boost that adds a set amount of crit%) or for it to have a higher boost to evasion/move speed (Demon version is only 50% evasion/20% move speed) and be able to stack with other buffs. After all, even IF it were made to a more useful speed boost (not even looking at evasion for now) it won't help much if the instant you use Holy Path or the like you wind up losing the buff.

truekossy · August 2009

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

LA Fox Veno, here. Do you realize what power the Archer's evasion buff holds to not only Fox Venos, but also LA Wizards? We both have skills that reduce accuracy, and if we shard ourselves with Evasion? Giving us an Archer's Eva Buff is like giving us God Mode. Yes, I know, Magic doesn't miss, but who sends casters after magic classes anyway? You send Archers. Archers who have a tendency to miss. They miss even more when you've got a metric ton of Evasion on your side.

Also? It's pathetically easy to boost Evasion, as well. There are several items I know of that give + Eva. There are TT rings that give + 30% Eva, an Eva Necklace with + 10% eva, a Magic Defense Belt with + 10 Eva. That's 80% right there, and Eva is also easier to shard than Accuracy. The catch is? Everyone thinks Eva is useless, so nobody looks into these things. Maybe people should start.

LA fox, eh? What happens when the archer uses aim low and kites so you can't get close enough to debuff? What about when the BM has some decent dex to begin with and uses an accuracy pot so they can get a stun chain started before your purge (or if they're lucky, interrupt your cast)? Since you're running in fox, pretty sure a smart person would assume you're prepped for melee and physical combat and toss in some magic to be safe. Besides, archers can get comparable, or MORE evasion/accuracy than you easily with the whole... ya know... 4 dex per level and dex boosting gear thing. Level 100 archer will have at least 3.3k base accuracy and 2.4k base evasion. Level 100 sage veno in fox? 1.4k accuracy and 624 evasion. Any evasion gear you can use, an archer can as well... with the consequences that everything but low dex BMs will tear through you when played smartly.

You're right. Eva IS easier to shard than accuracy, but to do so you'd lose out on pdef, HP, and mdef. That means when a physical hit gets you, it will HURT. When someone figures out you can dodge a few physical hits (aside from all the ones that, you know, never miss) and they use magic on you, not only will it HURT but you'll also probably die from it due to low HP. And I'm sure most would much rather survive overall than hope that guy you're facing isn't competent enough to find ways around your evasion. Again, 80% evasion from... 4 equips... versus 100% accuracy from two. Plus accuracy pots. Evasion is good and all if you're solo against a BM/barb who doesn't use misties and, in the case of the BM, doesn't put much into dex... but against anything else in mass PvP, you're screwed. And as some archer had posted with the results of before/after using a 1000% evasion buff on themselves, it doesn't help as much in PvE as we wish it did.

Isala - Sanctuary · August 2009

truekossy wrote: »

LA fox, eh? What happens when the archer uses aim low and kites so you can't get close enough to debuff? What about when the BM has some decent dex to begin with and uses an accuracy pot so they can get a stun chain started before your purge (or if they're lucky, interrupt your cast)? Since you're running in fox, pretty sure a smart person would assume you're prepped for melee and physical combat and toss in some magic to be safe. Besides, archers can get comparable, or MORE evasion/accuracy than you easily with the whole... ya know... 4 dex per level and dex boosting gear thing. Level 100 archer will have at least 3.3k base accuracy and 2.4k base evasion. Level 100 sage veno in fox? 1.4k accuracy and 624 evasion. Any evasion gear you can use, an archer can as well... with the consequences that everything but low dex BMs will tear through you when played smartly.

You're right. Eva IS easier to shard than accuracy, but to do so you'd lose out on pdef, HP, and mdef. That means when a physical hit gets you, it will HURT. When someone figures out you can dodge a few physical hits (aside from all the ones that, you know, never miss) and they use magic on you, not only will it HURT but you'll also probably die from it due to low HP. And I'm sure most would much rather survive overall than hope that guy you're facing isn't competent enough to find ways around your evasion. Again, 80% evasion from... 4 equips... versus 100% accuracy from two. Plus accuracy pots. Evasion is good and all if you're solo against a BM/barb who doesn't use misties and, in the case of the BM, doesn't put much into dex... but against anything else in mass PvP, you're screwed. And as some archer had posted with the results of before/after using a 1000% evasion buff on themselves, it doesn't help as much in PvE as we wish it did.

I've fought Archers packing two Misties before. They missed. Without even being Debuffed. The trick is to find a happy medium, and to use the right gear. My gear comes with +HP, Eva, Accuracy, Vit, Dex, and Str. Not to mention, when I PvP, I use a Genie with Anti-Stun Skills. 624 evasion? Try having over double that, and that Accuracy? Laughable. I hit way over 2k. And I'm only level 80, packing gear that's not even close to the stats on the set I've planned for Endgame.

All it takes is a bit of Refining, for the HP, and I'm even wearing an HP hat for an extra 300 HP, sharding for Eva, and wearing P-Def Jewelry with Acc/Eva buffs. I have yet to find an Archer that can actually threaten me. While, yes, it may not work as well as we think, it still works quite well, when combined with other things, for example, Stunning blow. Freezes you in place for several seconds. All I have to do is get that off, and you're a sitting duck. Then, I debuff your accuracy, use Extreme Poison and Amplify Damage, and you're dead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Because now that you can't move, you'll not only have me, but my pet on you, and no Archer is going to survive being pounded on like that.

And as you said, Barbs, and BMs are going to be whacking on me, so I'll have full use of my Accuracy Debuffer on them as well. Venos, all I have to do is pop a few genie skills, and I'm golden. I've got Anti-Bleed, and Anti-Wood on my Genie. Nix can't bleed, Veno can't cast. It all bounces off, and Pounce isn't going to last long enough to stop me. Clerics? Unless they see me coming, spark, and crit on Tempest, they're not going to kill me. Anything weaker bounces off the metal defense I have. Wizards, I get on top of, Stunning Blow, and then use Fox Wallop to slow their channeling down by 40%. Yeah, they'll get a few shots off, and it'll probably hurt, but as with Archers, once I'm on top of you, you're dead.

And yeah. I know about the pots. But we all have the option for the same pots, and I for one, pack Elixirs, and Damage Absorbing Pots. Not to mention, my Leech gives back a very large amount of HP when I use it. I've got more ways for keeping my HP up than any class besides clerics.

Antaury - Dreamweaver · August 2009

nom nom nom nom, they already crit too much <.<, are u crazy? first give the wiz more power and then u can give everybody else what ever they want, FIX the fussing WIZARD!

Cursedsteel - Heavens Tear · August 2009

For those of you that think that the archer eva buff is pointless i laugh at you. You may not see a difference 1v1 on mobs but try in rebirth, even wiz love getting hit 1 less time every 20 hits. The BM and barb can tank the mobs in there with less charm ticking and for those of us archers that have lvl 11 barrage it makes it easier for us to tank some mobs. In pvp 1v1 against a melee class you'll see a difference not much but usually enough for you to survive alittle longer, in TW the eva buff is only seen as pointless because you usually have more then 1 person attacking youb :cry

As for getting a crit buff.......lol go demon archer we get 2 different skills that buff our crit by 10%, one of which is very easy to get if you know how to cube.

Archers play their part as a DD class not a buff class.

It is the curse of all melee classes that we can never get 100% accuacy on players. I have 5700 accuacy and 5k buffed eva, i hit alot but i can still miss even robes with 300 eva. BM's and barbs at 90+ usually know to use accuracy orbs to hit me better but even if they dont you can always get hit, thats why i will never stack my eva.

Archers Should have Crit Rate Buff?

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