Pet Skills Guide

tweakz
tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
edited August 2009 in Venomancer
*Subject to updates and corrections

*Helpers:
Laranda

Introduction

There are many misconceptions about pet skills, and choosing pet skills can be costly mistakes. Many of us have heard that we should have Bash for our pet to hold aggro, but bash has a multiplier effect on the pet's base attack. If your pet has a low base atk, it's not going to benefit as much from bash as other pets. Adding another applied skill like Threaten, Howl, or Slow which could be more useful and still generate some aggro.

Multiplier Damage Skills can change the DPS (Damage Per Second) ratings of a pets. If you have a hard, but slow hitting pet that has lower DPS than a lighter faster hitting pet, a Multiplier Damage skill like Bash, Flesh Ream and or one of the Elemental attacks can change that. Claw being a buff that applies to all damaging hits wouldn't work the same. For normal grinding aside from with a Phoenix, I've found that the DPS of a pet is almost irrelevant. A skill like howl makes a bigger difference in speed of combined killing but has a slow cool down rate. During boss fights with a barbarian tank, it's not wise to use your pet's applied skills. So, DPS and Damage multiplying skills appear to work best for when you're letting your pet fight while you're mining or doing something else.

Rare pet skills can be found on legendary pets, rare pets (the bears), in treasure chests in the Dragon Temple event on Tuesday nights or in the Auction House and Kitty Shops. Consider them carefully, as many of the common skills can be more effective for how you may be using your pet. IE: Tough would be better than Blessing of the Pack, or Protect & Strong for luring. Howl may work as good as Claw for normal grinding.

Common Skills

Bash (Launch a fierce strike at the enemy, dealing 140/155/170/185/200% of Pet's base physical damage)

Coin Cost: 300,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 8 seconds

Bash works great as an aggro holder and damage dealer for hard hitting pets as it multiplies on their base attack. Flesh Ream deals more damage but because it's cooldown rate is longer, it can fail to hold aggro as well as bash. Pounce is popularly replaced by Bash on Baby Hercules to make it a better grinding or squad tanking pet.

Flesh Ream (Bite an enemy, inflicting base damage plus 120/140/160/180/200% of Pet's base damage over 9 seconds)

Coin Cost: 300,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 15 seconds

Flesh Ream does 300% of base attack over time making it the highest DPS multiplier common skill (Claw and Sacrifice do more but are rare). Because it has a slow cooldown rate, it isn't as good for maintaining aggro as Bash or one of the Elemental skills. It's commonly used on Baby Phoenix's because the Phoenix has a high enough DPS to hold aggro well on it's own.

Roar (Roar to attract enemy's attacks)

Coin Cost: 150,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 15 seconds

Roar does no dammage, but is the best tool for initiating or regaining aggro. Unlike it's use for Barbarian's, the pets Roar is not AOE (Area of Effect - only works on one mob at a time). Roar apparently resets aggro on the mob and sets a hidden amount on your pet which makes it useful for regaining aggro.

Howl (Scare the enemy with a howl, decreasing enemy's Magic Defense by 20/24/28/32/36% for 15 secs.)

Coin Cost: 750,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 30 seconds

A great compensator skill for pets with low DPS since it raises yours in addition to generating some aggro. Works great on a fast pets like wolves and the Kowlin which come with it, as they can apply it faster. I put claw, flesh ream, and bash on the highest well known DPS pet (Varicose Scorpion), and found that I can grind through mobs faster with a well rounded pet and howl.

Pierce (Attack enemy and decrease enemy's Physical Defense by 20/24/28/32/36% for 15 secs.)

Coin Cost: 750,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 15 seconds

Not as useful as Howl because Ironwood Scarab has almost the same effect while applying damage. With land pets: you're doing a large percentage of the damage. Multiplying on your pets damage even if it's very high isn't near as gainful as multiplying on your own. Pierce could be more useful to the venomancers that prefer fox form, or let their pet do most of the work while they do other things.

Threaten (Threaten enemy to decrease enemy's Physical Attack by 20/24/28/32/36% for 15 secs.)

Coin Cost: 750,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 30 seconds

Not to be mistaken as a tanking skill, the cool down on this would render your pet unprotected for 15 secs! It's best use is for luring physical mobs. It's best applied on a tank lurer that can take some hits while applying it like the Armored Bear that comes with it. *Threaten does not count as a hit when luring.

Shriek (Shriek at an enemy to have a 60/70/80/90/100% chance to interrupt channelling)

Coin Cost: 900,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 10 seconds

Many complain that the timing is difficult with this skill, and it's use is probably very limited. If you got a frog which comes with it, it's high magic defense along with this skill on auto could probably spare a party some AOE damage with a nice fast cool down of 10 seconds. -*untested

Slow (Decrease enemy speed by 30/35/40/45/50% for 6 secs.)

Coin Cost: 900,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 10 seconds

This skill comes on all the petali's (a fast common pet family) I've seen. It doesn't count as a hit when luring, so the Petali's will best get away using it around physical mobs. It's also good for attempting to regain aggro since it will at least slow a mob down even if it fails.

Tough (Reduce damage taken by 30/35/40/45/50% for 15 secs.)

Coin Cost: 300,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 60 seconds

Because of it's long cooldown, this is best used as a luring skill on a tanker lurer like one of the bears which come with it.

Boost (Recover 8/10/12% of Maximum HP)

Coin Cost: 300,000
Pet level 10,20,30
Cooldown 10 seconds

On high defense pets like a frog (which comes with it), this can save some time and mp from casting a heal between each mob if timed right (hit boost just as you're finishing it). It doesn't recover a lot even at it's highest level, but can often put the right pet back in that comfort zone. After some time, I found it too burdensome to use.

Elemental Skills

Fireball, Icicle, Toxic Mist, Thunderbolt, Sandblow (Inflicts element damage equal to 140/155/170/185/200% of Pet's base physical damage.)

Coin Cost: 300,000
Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 8 seconds

Because most of your attacks are wood based, using Toxic Mist (wood damage) on your pet may help your pet maintain aggro on an earth based mob. Because you do little damage yourself to Wood based mobs, Thunderbolt (metal) could help do extra damage. It's probably wisest to stick with Bash if you'd like just a dd aggro holder, or use one of these to supplement Bash.

Rare Skills

Pounce ( Have a 80% chance to stun enemy for 3 secs. Increase attack rate by 15/25% for 15 secs if enemy is stunned)

Pet level 20,80
Cooldown 60 seconds

A very rare but popular as a PVP skill which comes on Hercules, Phoenix, and the Bears. It's often trashed on the Hercules for it's slow cooldown and poor aggro holding ability. It's also very useful for those occasions when you get an increased magic defense mob. You can Ironwood Scarab -> Fox Form -> Amp Damage -> Pounce, then melee your tail away! Normally the 25% inrease in speed would speed up your MP burn, but for Melee: it speeds up Chi building. Pounce is also good at interrupting channeling and useful for drawing aggro after the interrupt.

Sacrifice (Lose 75% of current HP to inflict 400% of Pet's base physical damage to an enemy)

Pet level 80
Cooldown 30 seconds

Practically useless on PvE, but can be a nice finisher surprise for PvP.

Penetrate (A fierce attack which inflicts 200,400,600,700,800 damage, neglecting target's defense)

Pet level 30,45,60,75,90
Cooldown 30 seconds

Reflect (Reflect 30/40/50/60/70% of melee damage taken for 1 hour)

Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 3 seconds

The closest you'll get to having an AoE skill on a pet! Hercules comes with this skill which helps it hold aggro a little when AoE'ing the mobs attacking it. One thing people don't realize is that when your pet isn't getting hit by melee (physical), it won't be able to hold aggro as well. Aggro will also be affected by how hard and frequent it's getting hit.

Claw (Increase Pet's base physical damage by 10/15/20/25/30% for 1 hour)

Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 3 seconds

This skill comes with the Phoenix. Because it works as a multiplier, it would be more effective on a high DPS pet.

Protect (Increase Pet's Magic Defense by 30/60/90/120/150% for 1 hour)

Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 3 seconds

This skill comes on the Hercules. Because it works as a multiplier, it would be wasteful to use it on a low magic defense pet.

Strong (Increase Pet's Physical Defense by 30/60/90/120/150% for 1 hour)

Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 3 seconds

This skill comes on the Hercules. Because it works as a multiplier, it would be wasteful to use it on a low physical defense pet.

Blessing of the Pack (Increase Pet's Maximum HP by 10/15/20/25/30% for 1 hour.)

Pet level 1,20,40,60,80
Cooldown 3 seconds

This skill comes on the Phoenix. Because it works as a multiplier, it would be wasteful to use it on a low HP pet.

Bloodthirst (Drain enemy life equal to 15/20/25% of Pet's Maximum HP, restoring Pet's life)

Pet level 40,60,80
Cooldown 30 seconds

Bloodhunger (Absorb enemy's life equal to half of Pet's missing HP, restoring Pet's life *Requisite Skill: Bloodthirst Level 3)

Pet level 40,60,80
Cooldown 30 seconds

Consume (Drain mana from the enemy equal to 15/20/25% of Pet's Maximum HP, restoring Pet's life.)
Devour

Pet level 40,60,80
Cooldown 30 seconds
Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
Post edited by tweakz on

Comments

  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    All in all, looks good, but I have a few nitpicks.
    tweakz wrote: »
    choosing pet skills can be costly permanent mistakes.

    Permanent suggests that once pet skills have been chosen, they cannot be undone. This is not the case. Pet skills can be removed.
    a Multiplier Damage skill like Bash, Flesh Ream or one of the Elemental attacks can change that.

    Imo, should be "and/or."
    -*but not Claw

    This sticks out like a sore thumb... Claw isn't a damage skill. It's a buff skill. It shouldn't really be mentioned in a paragraph about damage skills unless it's about boosting the damage of the damage skills.

    It should be a sentence too. It would be easier to understand as one.
    Threaten may work as good as Claw for normal grinding.

    This just sounds odd to me too. Threaten and Claw are for vastly different uses. I know; with claw, monsters die faster so less damage; Threaten lowers damage per hit. But it still sounds odd.
    Bash
    Flesh Ream
    Both of these skills are affected by defense and "Increase Defense" monsters. Just a minor addition. :P
    Blade Masters also have this debuff available.
    Not in the common skills. Spear/Polearm BMs do, but not the rest. The Polearm skill takes 2 sparks too. Iirc, Glacial Spike also reduces magic defense too. :P
    Pierce could be more useful to the uncommon heavy fox form users.
    Remove "heavy." It's useful to all fox form users. Imo, "uncommon" should be removed to as it isn't needed. But it isn't as inaccurate as "heavy."
    Bash has the same details in common but isn't subject to elements.
    Read above. :P I agree with the rest of what you say in that section. That said, I love fireball. Big explosion with big enemies. b:victory

    Beyond that, it may be worthwhile to add bash and an elemental skill. Multiple attacks can produce alot more aggro/damage than just one.
    it would be wasteful to use it on a low DPS pet.
    Imo, you shouldn't be judgmental here. It's also partially incorrect as the "PS" in "DPS" doesn't matter to claw. This would be better: "it's more effective on pets with higher physical attack."
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Thank you! I made some changes based on the notes. This was kind of a rush job considering how big of a project it is. I knew I'd need fixes.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    tweakz wrote: »
    *Subject to updates and corrections
    Elemental Skills

    Fireball, Icicle, Toxic Mist, Thunderbolt, Sandblow (Inflicts element damage equal to 140/155/170/185/200% of Pet's base physical damage.)

    The description for the first level of those skills says about 140% of base physical attack. I have Sandblow on my golem and Toxic Mist on my sawfly (both lvl 1) and those red numbers that appear over an enemy, when attacked, to indicate the damage inflicted, suggest it's rather 100%. I don't know it it's a bug in the skill description or in the system that shows the damage (or both) but I think there is some bug. Did anyone else notice this?
    tweakz wrote: »
    Pounce...

    You can Ironwood Scarab -> Fox Form -> Amp Damage -> Pounce, then melee your tail away!...

    This suggest that the status set on the target by that skill affects also a venomancer that is attacking the target. It's surprising. I would expect it to affect only a pet. Does it affect everything that is attacking the target? If Yes, it would be good to say it explicitly and even emphasize it :)
    Imo, you shouldn't be judgmental here. It's also partially incorrect as the "PS" in "DPS" doesn't matter to claw. This would be better: "it's more effective on pets with higher physical attack."

    Depending on the meaning of the word "effective" it's more effective for the pets with high DPS or equally effective for all pets as it's always 30%. I can't think of a meaning of the word effective, that it would be more "effective" for pets, that hit harder but more rarely, than for pets that hit more frequently but less hard. Bash, on the other hand, increases average DPS more for pets that hit harder but more rarely.
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    The description for the first level of those skills says about 140% of base physical attack. I have Sandblow on my golem and Toxic Mist on my sawfly (both lvl 1) and those red numbers that appear over an enemy, when attacked, to indicate the damage inflicted, suggest it's rather 100%. I don't know it it's a bug in the skill description or in the system that shows the damage (or both) but I think there is some bug. Did anyone else notice this?

    Probably has something to do with magic resists. I doubt there's a bug. o.o
    Depending on the meaning of the word "effective" it's more effective for the pets with high DPS or equally effective for all pets as it's always 30%. I can't think of a meaning of the word effective, that it would be more "effective" for pets, that hit harder but more rarely, than for pets that hit more frequently but less hard. Bash, on the other hand, increases average DPS more for pets that hit harder but more rarely.

    PATK 2000*.3=600
    PATK 3000*.3=900

    That's what I meant. Attack speed means nothing to claw hence why I think "Per Second" is inaccurate.
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Probably has something to do with magic resists. I doubt there's a bug. o.o

    I don't think it's just resistance. Yes resistance to magic is usually higher than to physical attack, especially for no element mobs, but in case of the element, for which the mob is weak, the resistance against that element is less, than against p attack. If You have a sawfly or other pet with toxic mist try Mutant Jackaleopardite. Those mobs are in the area of Your quests I believe. According to the database, they have p def 870 and resistance against wood element 628.
    PATK 2000*.3=600
    PATK 3000*.3=900

    Ok imagine a pet with p attack 4000 and attack speed 0.6 and another with p attack 3000 and attack speed 0.8. Without skills their DPS is the same. In the first case You gain 0.3 * 4000 = 1200 per attack and in the second 900 per attack, but in the first case You get 1200 6 times in the 10 s period and in the second 900 8 times. The gain is the same.
  • luna3clipse
    luna3clipse Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I've waited a long time for this type of guide. Absolutely nowhere else does anyone explain what each pet skill does, and how they are effective per pet.

    Thank you!
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    The description for the first level of those skills says about 140% of base physical attack. I have Sandblow on my golem and Toxic Mist on my sawfly (both lvl 1) and those red numbers that appear over an enemy, when attacked, to indicate the damage inflicted, suggest it's rather 100%. I don't know it it's a bug in the skill description or in the system that shows the damage (or both) but I think there is some bug. Did anyone else notice this?

    The damage you see over the mobs head is after the mobs magic DR is applied.



    This suggest that the status set on the target by that skill affects also a venomancer that is attacking the target. It's surprising. I would expect it to affect only a pet. Does it affect everything that is attacking the target? If Yes, it would be good to say it explicitly and even emphasize it :)


    Depending on the meaning of the word "effective" it's more effective for the pets with high DPS or equally effective for all pets as it's always 30%. I can't think of a meaning of the word effective, that it would be more "effective" for pets, that hit harder but more rarely, than for pets that hit more frequently but less hard. Bash, on the other hand, increases average DPS more for pets that hit harder but more rarely.
    [/quote]

    Pounce should ony affect the pet.

    Doodoo (Pounce)
    Gives a chance to stun opponent for 3 seconds. Increases own attack speed for 15 seconds if successful.

    CD: 60sec
    Rank 1: +15% attack speed
    Rank 2: +25% attack speed


    From: http://pw-wiki.onlinewelten.com/Pet%20Guide%20-%20Pet%20Skills.ashx
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    The damage you see over the mobs head is after the mobs magic DR is applied.

    I know, but the damage from physical skills is the same and the resistance for physical damage and for magical damage is not that much different. If the pet attacks with the element to which the mob is vulnerable the resistance is less than for physical attack.

    Numbers are out of my head. I need to write down some actual ones, but what I see is more or less this:

    Normal P attack about 900 - 1100. It's a range as some hits are after ironwood scarab and my memory mangles numbers from yeserday and from 3 days ago.
    bash lvl 1 about 1300 - 1400 (a bit less than 140% in fact)
    toxic mist or sandblow 900 - 1000. If the mob is weak against the element 1100.
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Ok imagine a pet with p attack 4000 and attack speed 0.6 and another with p attack 3000 and attack speed 0.8. Without skills their DPS is the same. In the first case You gain 0.3 * 4000 = 1200 per attack and in the second 900 per attack, but in the first case You get 1200 6 times in the 10 s period and in the second 900 8 times. The gain is the same.

    First Case
    base attack = 4000
    attack speed = .6
    buff multiplier = 1.3
    Flesh Ream multiplier = 2
    Flesh Ream PVP multiplier = 1 (assumed for simplicity)
    PVP multiplier = .25
    Fight duration after skill = 9 sec

    4000*1.3=5200
    (5200 * .25) + (5200*2*1) + (9 * .6 * 5200 *.25)
    1300+10400+7020 = 18720

    Second Case
    base attack = 3000
    attack speed = .8

    3000*1.3=3900
    (3900 * .25) + (3900*2*1) + (9 * .8 * 3900 *.25)
    975+7800+7020 = 15795

    Difference
    18720-15795=2925

    Claw boosts PATK. Attack Speed doesn't matter to it, and attack speed is removed from consideration when dealing with skills. That is why I said "DPS" is inaccurate.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Claw boosts PATK. Attack Speed doesn't matter to it, and attack speed is removed from consideration when dealing with skills. That is why I said "DPS" is inaccurate.
    I find it easier to think of the pets in terms of DPS, and remembering that pets with 0.6 attack speed get a bigger boost from skills than pets with 0.8 attack speed.

    Trying to sort the pets based on raw attack score, then simultaneously trying to account for both attack speed and skills is too complicated IMHO.
  • pws1234
    pws1234 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Nice guide - especially with the explanation of the acronyms.
  • Peritia - Lost City
    Peritia - Lost City Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Trying to sort the pets based on raw attack score, then simultaneously trying to account for both attack speed and skills is too complicated IMHO.

    I can see a solution for integrating both attack and attack speed if you consider individual skills to establish a "baseline". Something along the lines of:

    Pet A
    3000 ATK
    0.6 attacks/sec

    Pet B
    2000 ATK
    0.8 attacks/sec

    For a window of 40 seconds, using Bash:

    Pet A: 24 Attacks, 5 Bashes
    = 2175 raw ATK/s

    Pet B: 32 Attacks, 5 Bashes
    = 1850 raw ATK/s

    The one advantage this has is that it more accurately compares the advantage high attack power has when skills are included. When considering only attack and attack speed, the difference between A and B is:

    (3000 ATK * 0.6 sec) / (2000 ATK * 0.8 sec) * 100
    = Pet A has a 12.5% lead over Pet B in DPS

    But when you consider the numbers including bash:

    (2175 ATK/s) / (1850 ATK/s) * 100
    = Pet A has a 17.6% lead over Pet B in DPS

    Admittedly, this has piles of flaws, among them:
    - Doesn't include accuracy
    - If Flesh Ream is used as the Baseline, it assumes bleed lasts full duration

    But given Bash's predominance as the Threat-generating skill of choice, I do think it at least helps to provide a basis of comparison between pets of different attack speeds.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    For grinding, I think pet's DpS may be over rated. The only pet I've found to make a real noticeable difference is the Phoenix. The only pet skill I've found to make a real noticeable difference is howl regardless of pet's DpS. -That's in going from a regular 4 hits to 3 on same level mobs.

    The atk rate may have an advantage for debuff luring pets, since the debuff doesn't count as a hit for luring. It can also change how many hits go in between a non hit skill changing the DpS for that range of hits.

    I updated the OP (Original Post) with the coin prices on these skills. -Makes a good reference for when you're at the AH (auction house) or kitty shops. ;-)
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Peritia - Lost City
    Peritia - Lost City Posts: 397 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    tweakz wrote: »
    For grinding, I think pet's DpS may be over rated. The only pet I've found to make a real noticeable difference is the Phoenix. The only pet skill I've found to make a real noticeable difference is howl regardless of pet's DpS. -That's in going from a regular 4 hits to 3 on same level mobs.

    Agreed, but the DPS is still nice to know. Also nice if you're helping faction with bosses etc, assuming you don't need to worry about the pet getting itself killed. As for grinding, I'd have to agree that Howl is a fantastically useful skill.
    tweakz wrote: »
    I updated the OP (Original Post) with the coin prices on these skills. -Makes a good reference for when you're at the AH (auction house) or kitty shops. ;-)

    While it's good that you referenced them, I think you might need to stress more heavily that for the majority of skills, buying them from Mrs.Zoologist is a massive waste of coins. Most skills in her pricelist are incredibly overpriced.

    Flesh Ream being one of the few that is possibly worth its normal NPC pricetag, the others are all considerably lower value on free market. It's not uncommon to see skills like Slow, Threaten and Tough being listed for 100-200k or even lower. You may see higher listed ones, but if you return just before the end time you will most likely find that they remain unbid upon.

    It may take a while to acquire a specific skill, but the massive price reduction is likely worthwhile, especially since most pets are perfectly functional without skillset-tweaking.

    My own personal triumph was winning a Threaten Scroll for 10,500 coins... So to repeat once more, get your skills off auction - patience pays off!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I can see a solution for integrating both attack and attack speed if you consider individual skills to establish a "baseline". Something along the lines of:

    Yeah, we did something like that in that epic herc vs. magmite thread. But the problem is nobody knows for sure what types of delays there are in using skills like Bash. When you first send your pet in, the initial Bash attack appears to be simultaneous with the first regular attack. But in subsequent attacks, the Bash appears to delay the regular attack.

    And 0.6 attacks/sec results in 8.33 sec between the first and 5th attack. Does Bash fire again after 8 sec? Or does it fire after 8.33 sec? And does it have some sort of casting delay? Nobody knows for sure, and AFAIK nobody has been patient enough to sit there with a stopwatch and time it.

    Without answers to these questions, you can't get an exact DPS which incorporates skill damage.
  • Zetarana - Heavens Tear
    Zetarana - Heavens Tear Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Flesh Ream being one of the few that is possibly worth its normal NPC pricetag, the others are all considerably lower value on free market. It's not uncommon to see skills like Slow, Threaten and Tough being listed for 100-200k or even lower. You may see higher listed ones, but if you return just before the end time you will most likely find that they remain unbid upon.

    It may take a while to acquire a specific skill, but the massive price reduction is likely worthwhile, especially since most pets are perfectly functional without skillset-tweaking.

    My own personal triumph was winning a Threaten Scroll for 10,500 coins... So to repeat once more, get your skills off auction - patience pays off!

    Isn't the only place to get these skills, Mrs. Zoologist?

    If that is so, then why would someone buy the skill then try to AH it?
    Zetarana - Arcane Veno
    Nephandus - Arcane Wizard
    Faction: Nocturne
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Isn't the only place to get these skills, Mrs. Zoologist?

    If that is so, then why would someone buy the skill then try to AH it?

    You can also get them from the Dragon Temple event on Tuesday evenings. People used to do it primarily to get swimwear. It's where bikinis and swim trunks came from before they were added to the cash shop, so its popularity has gone down. But it's still a source for regular and rare pet skill scrolls. People who end up getting the regular pet skill scrolls usually dump them onto AH below Zoologist prices.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Yeah, we did something like that in that epic herc vs. magmite thread. But the problem is nobody knows for sure what types of delays there are in using skills like Bash. When you first send your pet in, the initial Bash attack appears to be simultaneous with the first regular attack. But in subsequent attacks, the Bash appears to delay the regular attack.

    And 0.6 attacks/sec results in 8.33 sec between the first and 5th attack. Does Bash fire again after 8 sec? Or does it fire after 8.33 sec? And does it have some sort of casting delay? Nobody knows for sure, and AFAIK nobody has been patient enough to sit there with a stopwatch and time it.

    Without answers to these questions, you can't get an exact DPS which incorporates skill damage.

    Bash fires after the next attack, and the delay is part of it's casting/channel time. You can see this by chaining them together. What happens is the skill fires, and goes into CD, then the next skill fires. Also, I believe the normal melee attacks do their damage at the beginning of the swing, and skills at the end because they are cast/channeled like melee skills for the classes are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    First Case
    base attack = 4000
    attack speed = .6
    buff multiplier = 1.3
    Flesh Ream multiplier = 2
    Flesh Ream PVP multiplier = 1 (assumed for simplicity)
    PVP multiplier = .25
    Fight duration after skill = 9 sec

    4000*1.3=5200
    (5200 * .25) + (5200*2*1) + (9 * .6 * 5200 *.25)
    1300+10400+7020 = 18720

    Second Case
    base attack = 3000
    attack speed = .8

    3000*1.3=3900
    (3900 * .25) + (3900*2*1) + (9 * .8 * 3900 *.25)
    975+7800+7020 = 15795

    Difference
    18720-15795=2925

    Claw boosts PATK. Attack Speed doesn't matter to it, and attack speed is removed from consideration when dealing with skills. That is why I said "DPS" is inaccurate.

    It took me a while to respond. I'm sorry. I had to find some time.

    Ok claw boosts P attack, I agree, and speed has nothing to do with that effect. This is correct.

    But You said about claw being more effective for pets with high P attack and not higher DPS. As I said, the word effective may be understood differently, but I think by "more effective" You mean the damage increase is higher (in absolute terms) and it seems odd to me, to compare the damage of one strike. As in the example above, to talk about effectiveness you compare the damage over some period of time, which is equivalent to comparing the DPS. I used an example where I neglected skills because it's easier.

    So in my example do You think the claw is more effective to one of those pets or is it equally effective?

    If You insist on taking skills into consideration, we have to judge the effectiveness of claw comparing the damage inflicted using skills both, with and without claw.

    In Your example the pet with higher P attack has higher DPS with claw and skills, but please notice it also has higher DPS without claw (but with skills of course because it only makes sense to compare it that way)

    Let's change the example.

    first Pet
    base attack = 3200
    attack speed = .6

    second pet without changes

    now

    damage without claw

    (3200 * .25) + (3200*2*1) + (9 * .6 * 3200 *.25) = 11520

    damage with claw

    3200 * 1.3 = 4160
    (4160 * .25) + (4160*2*1) + (9 * .6 * 4160 *.25) = 14976

    this is exactly 1.3 times the damage without claw because skill damage bonuses are based on P attack. There are skills that work differently but please let's explain things here first before we go into that mess :)

    and for the second pet

    damage without claw

    (3000 * .25) + (3000*2*1) + (9 * .8 * 3000 *.25) = 12150

    damage with claw

    3000*1.3=3900
    (3900 * .25) + (3900*2*1) + (9 * .8 * 3900 *.25) = 15795


    The increase of damage for the first pet is 0.3 * 11520 and for the second 0.3 * 12150

    According to Your understanding of the word effective, for which one the claw is more effective? The first one has higher P attack
  • Flame_tail - Sanctuary
    Flame_tail - Sanctuary Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    i have seen the claw skill and i was wondering witch pet has and/or how can i get plz let me know also a price or some advice on it will help plz and thxb:victory
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2009
    Phoenix comes with claw. Claw tends to sell from 5m-7m on Heaven's Tear (PvE), but is very rarely seen. I would pay over 10m for it IF I could find it.
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