Is this true about flying pets?
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What's the most commonly discussed so called bug in the game? -Flesh Ream in PvP? How many veno's use it for an advantage? How many should be banned for it?
The flying pet bug offers none if not little advantage in the game. Flesh Ream however does.
Do the producers of the game consider the fly pet thing a bug, or is it just PWI? (why would they have to notify the producers of it, and why no response?). Why is something that's causing harassment, and the banning of players who may do it accidentally not being fixed while we're bombarded with features that are cheapening the game? (Try shopping with a Neinbeast over the kitty shops, racing with one right in front of you, or being unneeded for luring now with genies). Surely if this is such a horrible bug that causes bannings and harassment, then wouldn't it take priority?
People are being harassed simply for attacking mobs from the air whether they're hitting back or not. I think for the sake of PW's consumer relations that they should recant their threats over it. Since I don't consider it an advantageous thing to do: I'm not here making excuses for using it.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
What's the most commonly discussed so called bug in the game? -Flesh Ream in PvP? How many veno's use it for an advantage? How many should be banned for it?
The flying pet bug offers none if not little advantage in the game. Flesh Ream however does.
Do the producers of the game consider the fly pet thing a bug, or is it just PWI? (why would they have to notify the producers of it, and why no response?). Why is something that's causing harassment, and the banning of players who may do it accidentally not being fixed while we're bombarded with features that are cheapening the game? (Try shopping with a Neinbeast over the kitty shops, racing with one right in front of you, or being unneeded for luring now with genies). Surely if this is such a horrible bug that causes bannings and harassment, then wouldn't it take priority?
People are being harassed simply for attacking mobs from the air whether they're hitting back or not. I think for the sake of PW's consumer relations that they should recant their threats over it. Since I don't consider it an advantageous thing to do: I'm not here making excuses for using it.
When the developers say something is a bug, than it becomes official... Fleshream, players complain about it, but it has never been officialy announced as being a bug.
The air pet attack thing was announced as a bug, and we were told by the gms that taking advantage of it would be grounds for warning/ban.
If you are not abusing the bug, than it is not even an issue. There are ways to check if the boss was fighting back (a little assumption that this game has logs....., based on my experience with other games), so I am sure that if the boss was fighting back, you will not find your account banned, even if someone decided to complain about it.
Also, what we think about it is irrelevant, according to the TOS.
Originally Posted by Terms of Service
PWE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
When the developers say something is a bug, than it becomes official... Fleshream, players complain about it, but it has never been officialy announced as being a bug.
Where are the official announcements for such things? All I've seen is a threat from a forum administrator buried in a forum thread.Also, what we think about it is irrelevant, according to the TOS.
Exactly: it's poor consumer relations. -Guess how many people are going to stop putting RL money into this game after reading this?
Another glitch or bug: the archer's barrage used in zhenning. - Zhen itself is an unfair advantage for wizards, clerics, and archers who could be afk and still get xp.
To nitpick on venos over something that isn't even advantageous to do on something they should have fixed by now and haven't made clear is poor consumer relations. -Doesn't matter if they have the right or not. Also: they CAN do what they want. They CAN also be sued and lose customers, and be penalized by credit card companies if customers complain.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »I feel that some posters in this thread are trying to make a justification for exploiting,
Please, do not try to argue by making assumptions about the intentions of others and then attacking those assumed intentions, it makes it look like you've already lost the real argument and are now resorting to attacking the people you were supposed to discuss with.Please do not make excuses for disobeying our rules, as this is a private company we can ban you for our own reasons.
Is that a threat? I thought we were discussing a longlasting and ever returning bug. This issue will come up again and again until you properly fix it - and it will likely cost more of your time when it remains unfixed.
I am a customer, I was willing to spend a few coins should the game catch on and a situation arise. Afterall, PWI has servers and people to pay. But your attitude in this has just reminded me of some good reasons to not do so. Good Job. Your boss will be pleased with you.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »You have the option to not play the game if you do not agree with their TOS.
Ah, there were are, so you'd agree it is nothing like rentals.... Digitaly agreeing to something is legaly binding, the same as if you signed it on paper, under the legal jurisdiction where the servers and the company are located (in this case the USA).
If you do business in a foreign country, you have to abide by their rules. If you don't want to do that, you have the option to not do business abroad.0 -
If you do business in a foreign country, you have to abide by their rules. If you don't want to do that, you have the option to not do business abroad.
Also, if you accept credit card as payment: you agree to abide by the credit card company's rules. People may want to learn some of those btw. ;-)
The response given does affect my recommending this game to others, does affect my attitude toward purchasing from the boutique, and may affect my future use of the game. So whether they have legal rights or not: they lose for having poor consumer relations.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
The flying pet on Gouf bug I've seen stated as bannable by a GM. Same with pulling pets through walls. I haven't seen any official post either way on Flesh Ream. The archer Barrage skill was declared working as intended. If you make a post in the general forums making some noise about it, I'm sure someone will be able to dig them up.Where are the official announcements for such things? All I've seen is a threat from a forum administrator buried in a forum thread.
I agree they could gain a lot of brownie points by posting a list of bannable bugs in the Official Announcements section.
I am not a lawyer, but I did have to deal with a lot of contract law in a previous job (including a group of lawyers who tried to **** us over on a contract). EULAs (end user license agreements) and TOSes (terms of service) are still a poorly defined area of U.S. law. There have been some cases supporting their status as contracts, and a few cases which severely limit their reach and scope. No consensus so far, so everything is still on a case-by-case basis.Ah, there were are, so you'd agree it is nothing like rentals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement#In_the_United_States
Some of the TOS I have serious doubts as to their enforceability. e.g. the "no selling items or accounts" clause. AFAIK, it's never come up in court. Regular online games get around it by having users pay a fixed monthly fee, so they can argue that they're providing a service, and are free to discontinue that service at any time (e.g. if the user sells the account). But in this game, you can pay RL money to buy specific items. That sounds a lot like a sale, which would invoke the first sale doctrine which specifically allows you to resell items you've purchased. What's needed is a court case to decide if the doctrine applies to sales of virtual items. e.g. reselling of Disney dollars.
The GM/mods didn't like it last time I brought this up, but it is still a grey area in U.S. law. I like the concept of F2P games so I'd like to see it resolved in a manner which allows the business model to survive. But it's still a big unknown.
The whole "doing business in a foreign country over the internet" thing is also something that's ill-defined. What's needed is a single set of international laws governing it, but all countries have their own opinions so this may never happen. We've already had cases where e.g. France strongarms Ebay into blocking all auctions of **** memorabilia in their country. So it's hard to say which country's laws apply. I'm not even sure who has jurisdiction if, say, I were to make a phone call to someone in another country and make a verbal contract. I'll ask one of my lawyer friends who does international contract law.If you do business in a foreign country, you have to abide by their rules. If you don't want to do that, you have the option to not do business abroad.0 -
Ah, there were are, so you'd agree it is nothing like rentals.
If you do business in a foreign country, you have to abide by their rules. If you don't want to do that, you have the option to not do business abroad.
Let me clarify:
Originally Posted by Terms of Service
PWE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.
If you do not play by their rules, they can just delete your account. And you agree to it everytime you log into the game.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Seems to me like the bugs giving a real unfair advantage are ok if they help directly generate income. (xp scrolls, charms, or other cash shop items)
But then there is the one where you can kill an Increased Magic Attack Phys Only Mob for extra XP/SP. -Probably get banned for doing that too. b:chuckleIf you do not play by their rules, they can just delete your account. And you agree to it everytime you log into the game.
That TOS has nothing to do with rules. They can delete your account no reason at all. They're pretty much saying that they make up the rules as they see fit. One day we're here, the next day gone.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
Someone else can reset it. I caught a veno doing this with Kimsa. I sent my herc in and let it bash till it took aggro. I informed her it was bannable but offered to get the quest for her party as we were there to kill it for someone else anyways.Byno - Sanctuary wrote: »The bug goes, so far as I know, that when you attack a purely physical mob from above it with your pet, it won't attack your pet and it won't reset. My guess is that it's some sort of AI glitch where it thinks your pet is too far to be hit, but since it's not it won't reset. Or something. But anyway, this glitch also works for pure phys bosses, such as Kisma and Gouf. If the mob is pure physical you might want to watch out, but if it has any sort of ranged attack you should be fine.
As for pulling through walls, I don't think it's walls, but specifically the wood doors. I've never really been concerned when other people do it, since mobs can aggro us through doors and walls themselves, but the gms seem to care more when you're using it specifically to bypass a challenge, such as pulling the fb29 boss so you don't have to kill the mobs in his room.0 -
Ayamehowl - Sanctuary wrote: »Someone else can reset it. I caught a veno doing this with Kimsa. I sent my herc in and let it bash till it took aggro. I informed her it was bannable but offered to get the quest for her party as we were there to kill it for someone else anyways.
That sounds like harassment to me which is also bannable. It's not your job to police PWI.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
That TOS has nothing to do with rules. They can delete your account no reason at all. They're pretty much saying that they make up the rules as they see fit. One day we're here, the next day gone.
That is another part of the TOS, where they state that. Section 2
"PWE may amend these Terms, the Rules of Conduct, and any EULA at any time in our sole discretion. Amendments and modifications will be effective immediately after publishing them on the Website or otherwise providing you a copy thereof, and you waive any right you may have to receive specific notice of such changes or modifications.. You agree to and are responsible for checking this Agreement, the Rules of Conduct and any EULA periodically so you will be familiar with their contents as they may be amended or modified from time to time. By continuing to use any portion of the Service, you are signifying your acceptance of any revised or updated terms. . If you do not agree to the amended terms, you must stop using the Service."Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
This thread influenced me from spending any more than $10 on PWI. I'm certainly going to be hesitant about putting any sort of substantial cash into my account if I can get banned for things that I'm not even aware of...0
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DMG - Dreamweaver wrote: »This thread influenced me from spending any more than $10 on PWI. I'm certainly going to be hesitant about putting any sort of substantial cash into my account if I can get banned for things that I'm not even aware of...
Usually companies with horrible business practices don't even allow discussion of such things.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
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I caught a veno doing this with Kimsa. I sent my herc in and let it bash till it took aggro. I informed her it was bannable but offered to get the quest for her party as we were there to kill it for someone else anyways.
I would take major offense to that, and submit a support ticket about it (over harassment).Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
You keep reiterating that without substanciation. Only that it offends you personally.I would take major offense to that, and submit a support ticket about it (over harassment).
Harassment - repeated behavior found threatening or disturbing
Someonewhat akin to you repeating your statement?
For what it's worth.
1. I didn't report her as she may not have known. Albeit ignorance of rules and law is not a defense we all do make mistakes.
2. Her air pet couldn't even take a sliver of life off of the boss's HP in 5 minutes.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »Let me clarify ...
Changing subject? You were blabbering about rental agreements as if you knew all about laws and the murky and uncharted waters of internet jurisprudence. Rather read what Solandri adds to the discussion, it's a different view all together and a change from the same old threadmill of arguments that have been going around.
They're all different, amateur views and who's or what is right or wrong is not going to be decided by any of us, including the admins. In years to come, lawmakers and judges will lay down the rules.
Meanwhile, obscure and (seemingly) arbitrary rules or rules made up along the way do not contribute positivily to the idea that money spent is a reliable investment in gaming fun.0 -
Changing subject? You were blabbering about rental agreements as if you knew all about laws and the murky and uncharted waters of internet jurisprudence. Rather read what Solandri adds to the discussion, it's a different view all together and a change from the same old threadmill of arguments that have been going around.
They're all different, amateur views and who's or what is right or wrong is not going to be decided by any of us, including the admins. In years to come, lawmakers and judges will lay down the rules.
Meanwhile, obscure and (seemingly) arbitrary rules or rules made up along the way do not contribute positivily to the idea that money spent is a reliable investment in gaming fun.
The example Sol gave with ebay is not a good one since ebay has a subsidiary in Europe eBay Europe. The French courts made the European company removed said items since they have jurisdiction over the European company. Keep in Mind that the main company is called eBay Inc, and it based in the US, while the european company is named eBay Europe.
Now back to the issue at hand.
In Bowen v. YouTube, Inc., 2008 WL 1757578 (W.D. Wash. 2008), the Court enforced YouTube's Terms of Use.
In support of the ruling, the Court noted that while new commerce on the Internet has exposed courts to many new situations, it has not fundamentally changed the principles of contract . . . when a benefit is offered subject to stated conditions and the offeree makes a decision to take the benefit with knowledge of the terms of the offer, the taking constitutes an acceptance of the terms, which accordingly become binding on the offeree.
In our case, everytime you come to the forums or log in to the game, you are accepting the TOS, no matter what they are.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
I would take major offense to that, and submit a support ticket about it (over harassment).
ಢ_ಢೂ MOAR, PLZ.
You won't get anywhere here with such an attitude.
Oh, and before I forget; it may not be her JOB to police PWI, but it is a kind act to do so. It's why things such as Citizen's Arrests exist...it may not be a citizen's JOB to police their neighborhood or area, but they can do it, anyway, and the real police do appreciate the extra help.
So kudos, Jazmin, on bein' a good Samaritan and stoppin' "bug abusers" one at a time.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »ಢ_ಢೂ MOAR, PLZ.
You won't get anywhere here with such an attitude.
Oh, and before I forget; it may not be her JOB to police PWI, but it is a kind act to do so. It's why things such as Citizen's Arrests exist...it may not be a citizen's JOB to police their neighborhood or area, but they can do it, anyway, and the real police do appreciate the extra help.
So kudos, Jazmin, on bein' a good Samaritan and stoppin' "bug abusers" one at a time.
The policy on that could and should change at any time. Regular users aren't equipped or trained on how to properly enforce rules. Earlier in this thread, a couple of us including myself indicated that we were harassed for nothing more than attacking ground mobs from the air.
Citizen's arrests are a joke. You face severe liability for attempting one. Police have legal protection, we don't. Similarly here what you may think is ok, the company may not.Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 10 above, you agree not to take any of the following actions:
(b) Impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
(f) "Stalk," threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
(h) Impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the game or in Interactive Areas on the Site or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS) "spamming" or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or PWE employees;
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within PWE's discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Website.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
If we investigate and maybe you did this once or twice, we'll most likely warn you about it and send you on your way. If we have evidence of you using an exploit constantly to the point where we feel that it is clearly abuse then this may not be the case.
Generalizations are easy to throw around, but when we receive reports there is no "generalized" response to every case. We're not going to permanently ban your account for using an exploit once unknowingly, but we may if you consistently use the same exploit again and again.
Think of it like this, if you have to come up with an excuse for why your play style is "not completely exploiting" then you're probably doing it on purpose. If you honestly had no idea then we will be able to tell.
There's nothing else to say on this subject, speculation will not change the reality of how tickets are investigated.
Click here to send a ticket to Customer Support * tumblr
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