gs in essential sutra combo...

Sherekahn - Lost City
Sherekahn - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
edited July 2009 in Wizard
im wondering if any hi lvl mage can give me some insight whether i shuld lvl gs first for its high dmg, or save sp to max ss & earth mastery

i'm pure int & got pyro, sr, and dp maxed, ss lvl 7 earth mastery 7, fire mastery 3, no water mastery & gs lvl 1

on adalwolf geomancers [water mob] the sutra combo i ussually go for is ss, dp, sr, (mob is dead, nxt mob) pyro, ss (sutra ends) fow, ss, lvl1 crown of flame for quick low mp finisher (2nd mob is dead)

it works quite well the way i've been doing it.. the mobs can nvr hit me i'm just imagining tho for pvp even without any water mastery gs would prolly be far superior to sr w/ lvl10 mastery in a combo... can any1 confirm this for me or give me some more info?
Post edited by Sherekahn - Lost City on

Comments

  • Dalamaar - Heavens Tear
    Dalamaar - Heavens Tear Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I dont recommend using GS in a sutra combo.. it has one of the longest cast times so you will lose a chance to get off another skill.

    GS = 1.8sec cast

    Devine Pyro + Pyro = 1.8sec cast

    unless you want the super slow down caused by glacial snare it won't do as much damage as both pyro's cast in the same time.

    That being said I use GS as one of my main openers. Have it maxed so I can GS and SS the mob before it even really starts moving towards me.
  • CeliaZ - Sanctuary
    CeliaZ - Sanctuary Posts: 901 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    When I use glacial as 1st, 2nd or 3th spell I almost never get a 4th spell off... but the combo DP-SS-DP-GS works perfect for me. Of course if your GS is low level you are better off with DP-SS-DP-SR, but mine is lvl 8 so it works very well.
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  • Phsyco - Lost City
    Phsyco - Lost City Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    The best part of GS is the major slow down. It makes sence to use it first but since sutra allows you to cast spells so fast it makes it ok to use GS last in a combo because whatever ur attacking probably wont get in very close by the time you let it off.
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  • Sherekahn - Lost City
    Sherekahn - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    thanx every1 for sharing the wisdom, i lvl'd gs to 5 and i couldn't be happier

    now my sutra combo is more powerful than ever, and has a high chance of slow...

    ss,gs,dp,ss. or opposite order dp&gs. 5.8sec = 4 hits easy overkill as promised, and if the mob happens to survive... well it's almost always moving in super slow-motion so there's more than enough time to kite/knockback or fow :)

    thanks a billion again b:thanks i highly reccomend this skill for ALL mages

    edit: now, upon re-reading all this and thinking about it i'm not so sure gs is the best in a sutra combo.. as dalamaar said maybe gs is best as an opener without e.sutra... the thing is, i havent been able to get the combo i mentioned originally (ss,dp,sr,pyro,ss) to work for awhile now so i can't rly compare the dmg outputs.. it's only b/c the timing must be very precise to insta-channel the last ss, and impossibly precise if there's any lag. i'm still working on it cuz i kno for a fact i've gotten it to work before, but theoretically there should still be time even after a 'ss,gs,dp,ss' for one extra spell.. assuming that where the e.sutra description says 6 seconds it doesn't included all cast times in advance.... ok mebbe idk whut im talking about.. any1 else got more knowledge/suggestions to comfort me..? :p it's not incredibly important i suppose.. but then again, it is
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    GS in sutra is not a recommendation, is a MUST.
    I have 2 Sutra combos: GS-FoW-SR-SS-Gush ( for PvP and TW when an archer can stun you after first hit, FoW makes him unable to do it). Gush is there just in case. The second is full nukes: SS-DP-GS-SR. This one works wonders on cata pullers(and increase life mobs). I can peak about 13k+ in 6 sec on a 85+ barb if the lag is not huge. I always use it after charm tick, usually with some assist the cata-puler goes down like a rock
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  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    i use GS first when i know i can 2 shot the person *cough* BMs *cough* b:cute
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Cryxtal - Sanctuary
    Cryxtal - Sanctuary Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Depends on how well u execute ur attacks ! After playing for sometime if u realise, when u hit your 2nd skill RIGHT BEFORE ur first skill is carried out, there will be no delay in casting time between e 1st and 2nd skill.

    Which means after ur first skill then immediate 2nd skill will start casting without any delay/waiting time. Takes practice if u are new to this. Also in any case, i always pull off 4 skills with sutra , with GS as a opening because there is a need to slow melee ppl down. And at least finish sutra by the time the opponent reaches u. But its also hard to get this done if its a 1 v 1, and when the countdown timer starts, the melee tries to be an **** and starts running to u alr.

    My combo is GS>SS>DP>GUSH , SOMETIMES i do gush/ss/pyro/gush/stone rain depends . With the 2nd combo its easy to pull off 5 skills.

    Your 1st to 2nd spell should not have delay. between 2nd and 3rd will have delay, between 3rd and 4th no delay!
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  • Dalamaar - Heavens Tear
    Dalamaar - Heavens Tear Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Forgot to say in my other post, during a sutra the animations matter. For example if you were to cast DP from max range will take more time then if you did standing next to the person. If you watch you will notice that a spell that has something that flys from you to the mob\player like the flaming card on both pyros the next skill will not start until the animation is done.

    Use this to your advantage, learn the skills that have longer animations and you will be able to avoid them when sutra'ing from max distance. Try, if you got it, sleep, distance shrink to the player, FoW, Sutra combo. If you don't get the pk you better be prepared to run like hell though cause you will be in stun range.
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    if you use GS last you can get 4 skills

    SS>SR>DP>GS
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • Kannone - Heavens Tear
    Kannone - Heavens Tear Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    GS in sutra is not a recommendation, is a MUST.
    I have 2 Sutra combos: GS-FoW-SR-SS-Gush ( for PvP and TW when an archer can stun you after first hit, FoW makes him unable to do it). Gush is there just in case. The second is full nukes: SS-DP-GS-SR. This one works wonders on cata pullers(and increase life mobs). I can peak about 13k+ in 6 sec on a 85+ barb if the lag is not huge. I always use it after charm tick, usually with some assist the cata-puler goes down like a rock

    bullsh!t b:chuckle

    You've either never PKed & are making this up outa nowhere; or you're hacking:

    GS-FoW-SR-SS-Gush → 1.8seconds + 2 seconds + 1.4seconds + 1.5seconds + 1.0 seconds = 7.7 seconds on a sutra combo IF!!!!! if you hit every skill with seamless transitions... riiiiight b:pleased

    Best bet with sutra combo: Divine Pyro → Sand Storm → Stone Rain (or gush) → Divine Pyro.

    Alternately if you're being attacked: DP → GS → Heal → Heal (never gotten a second heal in, but I get nasty lag so w.e).

    Edit: nm, read Cali's post below, he's got an even better combo than the two already mentioned. This one is still winsauce though:

    If you're in deep doodoo: Gush →Heal → heal → Town Portal
  • tyrtallow
    tyrtallow Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    You forgot to factor in -channel gear. Likely some of the people posting are wearing some.
  • Calibix - Heavens Tear
    Calibix - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    tyrtallow wrote: »
    You forgot to factor in -channel gear. Likely some of the people posting are wearing some.

    Lol! Sutra = no channeling. GG.

    Anywho, your all silly with your sutra combos talking about trying to get a 4th spell. W. T. F.

    DP>Gush>Pyro>DP>(Glacial Snare, Sandstorm, Stone Rain). That's 5 spells in one combo. Even more effective after getting lvl 11 gush and pyro. Last spell is optional. I normally use glacial because its the highest damage of the three, but used sandstorm for a long time until glacial began to out damage it. Stone Rain is what I use in pvp combo because I am demon and the chance to stun is worth the small damage loss to glacial. There was a big long post about this months ago and it was pretty much unanimously agreed that this is the best combo.

    Make a macro for your combo, and by your combo, I mean the one I just told you. Put it on your hotbar, right next to sutra. Hit 1, then hit 2 (or whatever the hotkey is). There, now you don't have problems timing it. Only thing that will prevent 5 spells is lag. Oh, and undine and poison and weakness and frenzy and all that good stuff before you sutra.
  • tyrtallow
    tyrtallow Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Yes, the post makes better sense now. Confusing quaff with sutra, their names both have "sutra" in my old server.
  • Kannone - Heavens Tear
    Kannone - Heavens Tear Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    nice :D that is a great sutra combo, thanks for the advice Cali
  • Sherekahn - Lost City
    Sherekahn - Lost City Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    how would frenzy be good for a mage ...b:question
  • Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver
    Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver Posts: 256 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Sherekahn - Lost City wrote: »
    how would frenzy be good for a mage ...b:question

    because despite the weird description in the Genie skill tree, if you look in the actual description when you talk to the genie trainer guy, it gives +11 attack levels at level 1 (if i remember correctly) b:chuckle
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    89+ if your ping is good you can get off pyro -> gush -> stone rain -> pyro -> glacial snare.

    amazing dps
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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  • Phsyco - Lost City
    Phsyco - Lost City Posts: 327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    GS in sutra is not a recommendation, is a MUST.
    I have 2 Sutra combos: GS-FoW-SR-SS-Gush ( for PvP and TW when an archer can stun you after first hit, FoW makes him unable to do it). Gush is there just in case. The second is full nukes: SS-DP-GS-SR. This one works wonders on cata pullers(and increase life mobs). I can peak about 13k+ in 6 sec on a 85+ barb if the lag is not huge. I always use it after charm tick, usually with some assist the cata-puler goes down like a rock

    How the frig are u dealing 13k with that combo? I'm assuming your pure build but still 13k?? I can't do that unless I crit.
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  • Rinnve - Lost City
    Rinnve - Lost City Posts: 473 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Sherekahn - Lost City wrote: »
    how would frenzy be good for a mage ...b:question
    Cause if you extreme poison, only one target is pwned. When you frenzy your aoe, some massive destruction happens. That is, if no one is stopping you b:chuckle
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  • WitchBurner - Sanctuary
    WitchBurner - Sanctuary Posts: 1,394 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Frenzy lv.10 leaves you naked, so lights out if someone see's you x_x
    Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.

    Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything

    Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.
  • Calibix - Heavens Tear
    Calibix - Heavens Tear Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Frenzy lv.10 leaves you naked, so lights out if someone see's you x_x

    Click it as soon as your casting your ulti. If your not getting stunned out of it, it will run off almost as soon as the spell hits. Frenzy owns in tw.
  • ShadowDrag - Lost City
    ShadowDrag - Lost City Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    im not sure about that with sutra usally do SS>divine>Gs>SS and it always works
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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