Crystalline Or Kowlin?

kowlins are hands down the most beautiful creatures in the game, i think. they are more versitile than some think, who believe them good only for pulling. i have been using mine recently to hunt towerlings, death knights and other such high level mobs. with Phoenix's great move set ( similar to that of the bird) she can take down mobs faster than a golem can, in general. she *does* need to be babied a bit, by watching her health meter, and backing her up as a secondary function to that. if you are looking for fast knockdown, by a beautiful, sleek streak of black lighting, the kowlin is for you

You could, I think, but there'd be some difficulty. I think that if your golem can't handle any mobs, your kowlin definitely won't, so it's not really good as a back up pet. If your kowlin dies, you can use your golem to take care of things better, which is helpful.

Kowlins are also pretty expensive. They range from about 1 mil and up, sometimes going down to 900k, but that's rare.

At around endgame, the golem will have higher hp, higher damage, higher phys. def and mag. def. Kowlin will have higher accuracy, dodge, attack speed and running speed. Kowlin also has a pretty high attack ratio too, but not as high as the golem's.

Kowlins are also pretty expensive. They range from about 1 mil and up, sometimes going down to 900k, but that's rare.

That's much cheaper than the cost of the skills it comes with, and it's speed makes it a good delivery vehicle for those debuff skills (for same level mob grinding). Some skills cost 900k alone at NPC.

At around endgame, the golem will have higher hp, higher damage, higher phys. def and mag. def.

If you're still using a golem as a tanker for endgame: you fail. The Qingfu beetle is more suitable, and the Hercules is easier to obtain than level by level 80. Golems suck as grinders, and have little use on bosses as tankers because many bosses are combined phys/mag with mag often being stronger. Qingfu's are faster. Before pointing out the higher DPS of the Golem, people should realize that all applied skills generate aggro, and Howl on a Qingfu would likely make killing with it faster than killing with a Golem without Howl. Howl is also more useful for squad tanking than bash, flesh ream, etc.

Kowlins are pointless (as are all "rare" pets), except maybe as a status symbol.

Pounce is one of the rarest pet skills in the game, and probably sells for well over 10m, but comes on the bears. People consider using their Hercules as a lurer, but don't realize that the Armored bear has better mag defense (better for luring), and with Tough; it's about as hardy as a Hercules for the small amount of time they're luring. The bear is faster and comes with an excellent debuff luring skill: Threaten. At Level 84, I was using my Armored Bear in Eden (FB89) to debuff lure with stupendous success.

I'm no fan of the Kowlin and believe it shouldn't be considered a lure pet. The Eldergoth Marksman and Sharpshooter are superior in multiple ways:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=323451

The Kowlin is a debuff pet, not a lurer. Some people with small screens, or poor visual response like it for it's flashy red swirly, but that's a personal issue.

Rare pets can have uses, they just aren't always obvious.

tweakz wrote: »

If you're still using a golem as a tanker for endgame: you fail. The Qingfu beetle is more suitable

I thought a level 1 pet levelled up would make the supreme tamed pet, and I levelled up one of those level 1 beetles to 30.
What I found was that it was superior to the magmite at the magmites level, but by 30 it had fallen behind the magmite in tanking.

This is explained by saying that although the beetle gets more initial advantage for being a lower level pet to begin with, the bonus per level for health and armor and damage aren't as much, so it gradually falls behind.

Some people have said to me that they have seen the stats for the lvl 1 beetle (at level 100) on some website and that they exceed the magmite, but that doesnt fit with my own observations. OK, I only got it to level 30, but the trend of it getting less per level wasn't in any doubt.

Its a moot point of course, as I think any veno that makes it to the 80's or 90's should probably have enough saved up to buy their own herc without having to use any dollars. If anyone has actually levelled a beetle up to high level and can post its stats Id be interested though (as opposed to reading it on some website).

MissEbil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bloodthirsty Adalwolf -
1. Better Mag Def than a magmite
2. Good HP regen rate (you can actually see it move)
3. Speedy enough to pull with
4. Enough HP to tank with
5. More damage than a magmite
6. Comes with Bash and Slow
7. Looks a damn sight better than a magmite


b:dirty Elvis

8. Better evasion
9. Better accuracy

I think people may have gotten the false impression that speed was all important when luring just because their Magmites couldn't handle the magic attacks.

Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »

Quinfu does not work as grinding tank, I can tell you from first hand experience. It doesn't hit hard enough to keep aggro, even if you max bash.

Didn't I already point out that non DD skills also generate Aggro? It doesn't need to hit hard to help kill as fast or to keep aggro.

Golem, while having a slot attack rate, also hit far harder, resulting in far more aggro generated due to aggro skills' nature of working on a per hit basis. Golem, for it's role of grinding tank, is replaceable only by herc, nothing else.

It is slow. It's like dragging around a pile of rocks then trying to hurl them at your enemy when tossing a couple spears would be quicker. You're continuing with the false assumption that only DPS or DD causes aggro. If that was the case, barbarians in tiger form would fail as tanks.

Pounce is not the most desirable skill, almost everyone replace pounce with bash on their herc.

Most veno's also run around with a magmite, and sawfly despite them being poor options for extended use. Herc is built and designed with skills to tank bosses. It's inferior to other pets for general grinding. Putting bash on it makes it more of a grinding pet. Pounce is also very much used on Phoenix's in TW.

Kowlin is not useful.

I like how you speak in absolutes of such things. Kowlin is fastest pet at laying debuffs on grinding mobs. It's also fastest in lower level FB's for rescuing tabbers. I'm not a big Kowlin fan, but it can be usefult.

There are cheaper and more effective options for any roles that Kowlin can fill. Eldergoth sharpshooter is slower, but is ranged.

Which makes it a better lurer/tanker. I don't consider a Kowlin a lurer.

This means far easier luring and almost guarantees unsummoning before the mob hits back.

Debuff luring is even easier.

Pvp debuffing pet have to be airborn.

Pvp is popular in SP because there's no airborn.

Pve debuffing pet is unnecessary, and resummoning tank pet after unsummoning debuff pet often results in you taking hits.

Debuff pet is fare more effective than DPS pet at killing bosses faster in squad mode.

Kowlin does too little damage, and is too limited to land, to be an effective pvp damage dealer in anything other than a duel.

DD on pets is over rated. They have so many other abilities to exploit.

its for holding aggro in TT doofus.

quit talking like you know venos. you obviously dont.

7. No trolling, or flaming.
Any form of personal insult will not be tolerated. General rule of thumb: if you think that what you are about to post is insulting, don't post it.

- http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=63291

Foxx - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is explained by saying that although the beetle gets more initial advantage for being a lower level pet to begin with, the bonus per level for health and armor and damage aren't as much, so it gradually falls behind.

Some people have said to me that they have seen the stats for the lvl 1 beetle (at level 100) on some website and that they exceed the magmite, but that doesnt fit with my own observations. OK, I only got it to level 30, but the trend of it getting less per level wasn't in any doubt.

Health increase per level:

Jaden Qingfu (lvl 1) : 32.5 on average (alternates between 32 and 33)

Quadrastral Beetle (lvl 2): 32.5 on average (alternates between 32 and 33)

Magmites: 32.5 on average (alternates between 32 and 33)


With respect to the health, the magmite has lower health than the beetle, but has higher P. Def, so it's a tradeoff, but because they all have the same health stat increase, the difference will remain static.


P. Def increase per level:

Jaden Qingfu (lvl 1) : 86.667 (87, 86, 87)

Quadrastral Beetle (lvl 2): 87.667 (87, 86, 87)

Magmites: 100

The magmite starts with a higher P. Def than any of the beetles, and because of the higher increase per level they will gain 12.33 more P. Def per level than the beetles thus increasing the gap each level.

M. Def increase per level:

Jaden Qingfu (lvl 1) : 73.33 (73, 74, 73)

Quadrastral Beetle (lvl 2): 80

Magmites: 66.67 (66, 67, 67)

The beetles, on the other hand have higher M. Def increases per level than the magmite, and have a higher M. Def than the magmite does at the same levels. Eventually the beetles will slowly elciplse the M. Def of the magmite by 5.33 (Qingfu) and 12.33 (Quadrastral).


By level 100 the difference will be:

Jaden Qingfu:
HP: 52
P. Def: -1167
M. Def: 770

Quadrastral Beetle:
HP: 49
P. Def: -1176
M. Def: 1425


Actual stats:

Jaden Qingfu:
HP: 3311
P. Def: 8625
M. Def: 7298

Quadrastral Beetle:
HP: 3308
P. Def: 8616
M. Def: 7953

Crystalline Magmite:
HO: 3259
P. Def: 9792
M. Def: 6528

Ahh thanks for the breakdown of the beetle vs magmite. I'll take it as a given that the beetle gets less damage increase than the magmite per level, even when factoring in the faster attack speed.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He's not flaming you, he's pointing out the obvious.

I tend to agree with this. Sounds like a lot of theorizing without much practical experience.