Is this true about flying pets?

Neeala - Dreamweaver · July 2009

Ok so i was flying around on my slow **** manta with my Petite Sawfly, sending it to kill ground mobs. I got a pm from a fellow veno saying that that is a bannable offence, is that true? o.O

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · July 2009

There's some sort of bug/glitch that can be abused in that situation, iirc - but purely flying and using a flying pet isn't bannable, as far as I know.

Neeala - Dreamweaver · July 2009

Haha FatherTed - I LOVED that show!

So it's ok to send my flying pet to attack ground mobs? even when i'm flying on my Manta and attacking too? I'm not doing any pvp or anything, just purely against npc mobs.

tweakz · July 2009

Someone was nagging and threatening to turn me in for the same thing. I encouraged them to and heard nothing of it since. I've yet to see any official word on such a thing either. Ban for a flaw in their programming? -lose money = no good

Peritia - Lost City · July 2009

Short version: If the target mob is fighting back, all is well.

In some cases (not sure when/why/how), the ground mob will just stand there. In THAT case, you can risk a ban... But I've never had that happen to me, personally.

tweakz · July 2009

Peritia - Lost City wrote: »

Short version: If the target mob is fighting back, all is well.

In some cases (not sure when/why/how), the ground mob will just stand there. In THAT case, you can risk a ban... But I've never had that happen to me, personally.

Where is the rule posted?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Neeala - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok so i was flying around on my slow **** manta with my Petite Sawfly, sending it to kill ground mobs. I got a pm from a fellow veno saying that that is a bannable offence, is that true? o.O

They were thinking of Gouf and the glitch where he won't attack a flying pet attacking him. There are times when normal mobs will exhibit the same behavior, but it's such a rarity and they die so fast anyway it doesn't matter.

So, Gouf: don't attack with a flying pet.

Annondae - Sanctuary · July 2009

I was told this glitch also exists on Kimsa.

Frankly, sometimes you don't really have another choice than to use air pets + flying mount on land mobs. Swamp of the Wraiths, anyone? This area can be a real pain in the rear without using abovementioned method.

Neeala - Dreamweaver · July 2009

Thanks for the info guys and gals. I will just risk it as it seems to be such a rarity, i really can't imagine how they could ban anyone for something that isn't their fault anyway.

Would be nice to get some official feed back about this matter though as it seems i am not the only one confused!

Zorish - Harshlands · July 2009

Neeala - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thanks for the info guys and gals. I will just risk it as it seems to be such a rarity, i really can't imagine how they could ban anyone for something that isn't their fault anyway.

Would be nice to get some official feed back about this matter though as it seems i am not the only one confused!

The most "bannable" offense is to bug a boss, that other way you wouldnt be able to kill.
Bugging a normal mob, and getting banned for that, its just too "over 9000!!"
Sometimes with air pets it just happens, whether or not was your intention to do it.

Arshies - Sanctuary · July 2009

Kill ground mobs with fly pets is not banned, air attack, i usually do it with water mobs and ground mobs.

I think is absurd banned venos for use fly pet against ground mobs, they are banned at dungeons yet >.<

DreadSamurai - Dreamweaver · July 2009

Hy,
I'm a new player so please bear with me. I know this is not the topic for this question but it is almost the same. If i made a mistake sorry for that.
My question is only that how can i have a mount? I'm a human blademaster in the game.
Can you please decribe in detail like for a beginer? Thanks.

Arshies - Sanctuary · July 2009

DreadSamurai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hy,
I'm a new player so please bear with me. I know this is not the topic for this question but it is almost the same. If i made a mistake sorry for that.

U can use *search* to find that u want or made a new thread

DreadSamurai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My question is only that how can i have a mount? I'm a human blademaster in the game.
Can you please decribe in detail like for a beginer? Thanks.

Buy it from boutique, catshops or Auction House.
U need a requeriment lv for ride it u can check it here: http://www.ecatomb.net/mount-r.php

tweakz · July 2009

Zorish - Harshlands wrote: »

The most "bannable" offense is to bug a boss, that other way you wouldnt be able to kill.
Bugging a normal mob, and getting banned for that, its just too "over 9000!!"
Sometimes with air pets it just happens, whether or not was your intention to do it.

Still waiting to find where this rule is posted. I'd also think it more bannable to lure an AoE boss to other players, or harass other players like some of these wannabe pwi cops are doing.

Peritia - Lost City · July 2009

Specgoesemo - Lost City wrote: »

So to start, I will cover the Venomancer bug. Let me put this exploit in simpler terms that explain exactly what this bug is. A Venomancer tanks with its pet. There ya go, doesn't sound so bad now does it? Whether or not a Veno is in the air and his pet is tanking, or if it is on the ground, all that's happening is the pet is tanking a freakin boss. If a Veno is using this method of soloing bosses, GOOD FOR HIM/HER!

xarfox wrote: »

In your example above where a flying pet is "tanking" said boss, the boss is not attacking back, he is bugged. Yes it's a bug, and yes it has been reported to our developers in China. Now in the meantime, anyone caught abusing this mechanic is subject to punishment.

Just because a bug exists, does not mean it's open for exploitation until it's fixed. We here at PWE are here to enforce the rules, and one of those rules is as follows:

(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=96272&page=2

Arshies - Sanctuary · July 2009

Dam >.< I didnt know it was bugged b:surrender

Then u can use your flying pet while the mobs attacking u back cuz these arent bugged and u dont violate any rules

Nehemiah - Harshlands · July 2009

That's really not far to ban someone for a developer's mistake and especially if the person doesn't even read the boards, and I have not seen anything like this in the EULA. That's like accidentally putting in a level 1 horse that drops 5mil everytime you kill it and you get banned for their accident of making the horse drop 5mil. And most tough bosses are in dungeons and you can't even fly in dungeons

tweakz · July 2009

Yep, how are we to determine what is a bug and what isn't? You can use your flying pet from a flying mount to pick of mobs, and if they draw aggro from other mobs: you can hit them from a safe distance with noxious gas to reset them. -Bug? -How do we know better? If we do and most don't: then they have an unfair advantage.

Some people get to play Dragon Temple (only place rare pet skill scrolls come from) because they have Tuesday nights off from work, is that an unfair advantage that people are exploiting off of a design flaw?

If you invite people to your squad while you're bugging a boss, is that an unfair advantage?

Rules and laws are often meant to deter people, others are for profit (like laws against hemp), and some are for our common good. This one sounds like it's mostly to keep the veno haters happy (common good), but it's unprofitable.

Too many times my flying pet has landed on a mob, (not always on it's head) where it wasn't getting hit. To do anything about it, would've have been risky. To purposely exploit this would be a waste of time.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Nehemiah - Harshlands wrote: »

That's really not far to ban someone for a developer's mistake and especially if the person doesn't even read the boards, and I have not seen anything like this in the EULA.

Common sense would dictate that if you're attacking a mob, and it's not attacking back, something is buggy. No need to read the boards to figure it out.

Like has been said in this thread, it happens with regular mobs too. Most of the time I don't bother to correct it when it happens with regular mobs - in the time it takes to fix it, I could've killed the mob and healed my pet even if it were fighting back. But against bosses it does give a significant advantage since it'll let you kill bosses you normally couldn't kill, so is obviously a bug, and obviously something you shouldn't be exploiting.

There's also a bug where you can target a mob through a wall or door, and send your pet to attack it. That's supposed to be bannable too. I agree with classifying it as an exploit if the player deliberately sets out to do that. But the game is buggy enough that sometimes the mobs will attack you through the walls. I asked, if that happens and I send my pet to attack, am I exploiting a bug? Apparently the GMs feel yes, which doesn't make sense to me since that means my only options are to curl up and die, or defend myself and risk getting banned. (You could run, but I suspect that could get you banned for pulling inaccessible mobs through walls.)

So there's some grey area in that case. But the mob-not-attacking-flying-pet bug I think is pretty clear-cut.

Byno - Sanctuary · July 2009

The bug goes, so far as I know, that when you attack a purely physical mob from above it with your pet, it won't attack your pet and it won't reset. My guess is that it's some sort of AI glitch where it thinks your pet is too far to be hit, but since it's not it won't reset. Or something. But anyway, this glitch also works for pure phys bosses, such as Kisma and Gouf. If the mob is pure physical you might want to watch out, but if it has any sort of ranged attack you should be fine.

As for pulling through walls, I don't think it's walls, but specifically the wood doors. I've never really been concerned when other people do it, since mobs can aggro us through doors and walls themselves, but the gms seem to care more when you're using it specifically to bypass a challenge, such as pulling the fb29 boss so you don't have to kill the mobs in his room.

Reivi - Sanctuary · July 2009

the easiest way to not have a Phy mob/ boss to b glitch when attacking from above with an air pet is to attack it from some angle (45 / 60

tweakz · July 2009

Speaking of bugs, when I'm in an endless fall (fall keeps resetting )while getting hit, or have to wait for my pet to tag me before it can grab aggro off a spawned ranged mob that ambushed me, should I ban the game (boycott)?

I've been happy with the results of filling out support tickets, but I don't use them nearly as much as I could (as in above situations). Even people who don't pay cash to play the game are helping to pay for it through gold trading. We're all customers and regardless of rules: we're treated as customers. Even a ban as little as one week would compel others and myself to switch to another game.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

tweakz wrote: »

Speaking of bugs, when I'm in an endless fall (fall keeps resetting )while getting hit, or have to wait for my pet to tag me before it can grab aggro off a spawned ranged mob that ambushed me, should I ban the game (boycott)?

I've been happy with the results of filling out support tickets, but I don't use them nearly as much as I could (as in above situations). Even people who don't pay cash to play the game are helping to pay for it through gold trading. We're all customers and regardless of rules: we're treated as customers. Even a ban as little as one week would compel others and myself to switch to another game.

People get banned over it.....

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Nehemiah - Harshlands wrote: »

That's really not far to ban someone for a developer's mistake and especially if the person doesn't even read the boards, and I have not seen anything like this in the EULA. That's like accidentally putting in a level 1 horse that drops 5mil everytime you kill it and you get banned for their accident of making the horse drop 5mil. And most tough bosses are in dungeons and you can't even fly in dungeons

Always read the documents you sign.....

This game as a TOS. When you first create an account, you accept the terms of the service. You also accept the terms everytime you signed on.
On top of that, they are not require, by the TOS you agreed to, to notify you of any changes to the TOS, and you still have to follow the rules.

Think of it as Real World laws. Even if you did not know that something is illegal, if the cops catch you doing it, you are still in big trouble.

turtlewax · July 2009

As far as I remember this TOS did not mention bugged mobs, but then, in the real world, the TOS does not meet legal standards for contracts. But as long as it is f2p ...

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary · July 2009

turtlewax wrote: »

As far as I remember this TOS did not mention bugged mobs, but then, in the real world, the TOS does not meet legal standards for contracts. But as long as it is f2p ...

# (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
# (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

bugs = all bugs I would assume?

eatwithspoons · July 2009

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

# (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
# (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

bugs = all bugs I would assume?

That is correct, we are not required to list every single possible exploit for this to apply

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

turtlewax wrote: »

As far as I remember this TOS did not mention bugged mobs, but then, in the real world, the TOS does not meet legal standards for contracts. But as long as it is f2p ...

Actualy it does, think of it as a rental agreement. Pretty much it states the company owns everything, including your character. Therefore you agree to do whatever they say in exchange for being allowed the privilege to access the account and play. Unlike EULAs, which means you own something, the TOS, only states you are getting authorization to access an account, as long as you agree to their terms. So as long as you login, you are accepting the terms. If you do not follow their terms, they can just remove your ability to access said account, and since it is their property, there is really nothing you can do about it.

turtlewax · July 2009

No, it doesn't. For one thing, legally valid contracts must be in my native language. How can you claim to know that it does meet legal standards if you do not even know where - and by what laws - I live.

It's also not a rental contract, and PWI would better not argue it as such or there'd be no way in hell they could get rid of me.

As soon as people really start paying for services legal things can become nasty with ending services, you can afterall not expect to get away with cashing in and then not delivering the service. You may be a happy consumer throwing away the rights that your parents and grandparents fought for because the other party tells you to, but not everyone will see things in the same way.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

# (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
# (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

bugs = all bugs I would assume?

What are bugs? If it's a bug, why isn't it fixed? I would assume that 4+ years after release they would have taken care of even the rarely occuring bugs, let alone something that occurs frequently and reproducable. If it's not 'fixed', it's not a bug and one can assume it's part of the design.

Unless you know what to look for it is not obvious, most mobs -the type the OP was inquiring about- tend to die not only fairly quickly, but frequently they do so without changing the pet's healthbar in easily recognizable amounts.

Section (l) does not apply as the issue is (a) not about obtaining access to the service and (b) does not give any unfair advantage over other players.

However, Veno's not being able to use flying pets and mounts would however present a clear disadvantage to them, so be carefull what you argue :P

eatwithspoons · July 2009

I feel that some posters in this thread are trying to make a justification for exploiting, this should not be the case. Regardless of whether you feel you should be obligated to obey the rules, the following statement remains true:

Terms of Service wrote:

PWE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, BLOCK ACCESS TO OR DELETE THE SERVICE OR ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.

Please do not make excuses for disobeying our rules, as this is a private company we can ban you for our own reasons. If you are caught exploiting you will be warned and/or banned regardless.

To the OP: it depends on the situation, the above post is not directed at you, it is directed at those who are trying to justify intentional exploiting

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

turtlewax wrote: »

No, it doesn't. For one thing, legally valid contracts must be in my native language. How can you claim to know that it does meet legal standards if you do not even know where - and by what laws - I live.

It's also not a rental contract, and PWI would better not argue it as such or there'd be no way in hell they could get rid of me.

As soon as people really start paying for services legal things can become nasty with ending services, you can afterall not expect to get away with cashing in and then not delivering the service. You may be a happy consumer throwing away the rights that your parents and grandparents fought for because the other party tells you to, but not everyone will see things in the same way.

What are bugs? If it's a bug, why isn't it fixed? I would assume that 4+ years after release they would have taken care of even the rarely occuring bugs, let alone something that occurs frequently and reproducable. If it's not 'fixed', it's not a bug and one can assume it's part of the design.

Unless you know what to look for it is not obvious, most mobs -the type the OP was inquiring about- tend to die not only fairly quickly, but frequently they do so without changing the pet's healthbar in easily recognizable amounts.

Section (l) does not apply as the issue is (a) not about obtaining access to the service and (b) does not give any unfair advantage over other players.

However, Veno's not being able to use flying pets and mounts would however present a clear disadvantage to them, so be carefull what you argue :P

You have the option to not play the game if you do not agree with their TOS.
Everytime you play the game you are agreeing to the terms. If you are not happy or do not like them, stop playing. Digitaly agreeing to something is legaly binding, the same as if you signed it on paper, under the legal jurisdiction where the servers and the company are located (in this case the USA). You can try to justify as you want, the fact is you are agreeing to whatever is in writing everytime you log in.

Is this true about flying pets?

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