Pole BM Videos/Screenshots/advice/bragging etc.
Hathian - Dreamweaver
Posts: 13 Arc User
As generally nearly everyone on my server uses axes, I feel somewhat pressured being a pole BM, and am beginning to feel that choosing this path was a stupid idea so, I humbly request any videos or screenshots of pole BM's pwning, or any words of wisdom from higher level pole users out there
-Hath
-Hath
Post edited by Hathian - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Does lvl 90 count?
i use pole since the beginning and to be honest
1) not good for leveling. why?
at 60, mobs does magic while u hit at far range(5m) so u have to move in to actually make him does melee (phy)
at 70, where people aoe grind easily with axe, you can only pick 3 or 4 and grind
2) not good for TW. why?
heaven flame + aoe = pawn with tt90 gold axe. end of story.
unless its 1v1. then its different. since tt90 andger give u the edge to beat hell when demon spark. so its your choice.
i will ask u to pick both weapon since axe lvl is way easier and spear just hit faster, hit harder and further without using any skills.0 -
Gah, well then I may switch to axe at 55
Anybody have anything positive to say..?0 -
well personally i use Poleblades myself and u can AoE 3-4 mobs at once by comboing Leap forward or leap back before u hit ur AoE linar skills cause the 4 mobs will run for u then u hit ur linar causing AoE dmg and Bleed i can also beat pure tank and pure Str Barbs my lvl and under as for Pking spellcasters use marrow after Magical then get close and do serious DMG my build is based on STR and DEX i dont focus on anything else and i do pretty good with poleblades causing bleed is frigging awsome so ur main skills would be Draw blood MAX AS SOON AS POSSIBLE max Pircing winds as soon as possible along with ur other polearm skills diamond sutra is also handy and for lvl 89 dont go sage go Demon :P ohh and im pretty even with Axe/Hammer BMs0
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also we BMs are effictive to kill monsters running away and lure with Farstrike and Drakes ray(Farstrikes range is 15 m)so yeah polearms a useful for both roles DD and luring and finishing kills on monsters running away whhen they have low health polearms may be slow but if ur smart like me use ur leap skills :P before using Linar AoEs and Fan sweep which is also an effective skill :P metor strike can be comboed with Peircing winds after use of Metor strike because it knocks mobs back(note Knock back does no effect in PvP) only prob for us would be ranged mobs cause if u use leap skill mobs wont follow which is why i use Drakes Sweep(lvl 44) and soon when i hit 59 Glacial Strike both will be effective to ranged mobs you can also use leap forward to catch up then do some Bleed skills killing ranged mobs i also have high Phys Def cause i mostly put points into str and high accuracy good crit and envasion from the DEX i dont bother for VIT cause i kill fast :P0
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I dont see why you guys are saying pole bm can only take 3~4 mobs. I can tank around 20 monsters per pull and then aoe them to death with Glacial spike( if you have the sparks if not it doesnt matter)->drake sweep->Meteor rush->PIERCINGWINDS ( if you have the spark doesnt matter if you dont use it) -> Meteor rush. The meteor rush allows our charm to tick and helps us handle MASSIVE mobs better than axe users IMO <- just a headsup. With a cleric, our aoe potential may be just a bit less than axes but that is compensated by our powerful skills and high range hits.0
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Ok to give you some headsup.
Polearm BMs rock. Why? We have more range, faster skills, harder hitting skils --> higher DPS.
I totally agree with AyaBrea on AoE grinding, its complete nonsense that we cant grind on more than 3-4 mobs. More like 15-20. Here's a great combo:
Gather mobs with Cloud sprint, use roar to get good aggro. Get a good position to hit them all with AoE: fan of flames - drake sweep - meteor rush. Once you have 299 chi, do the same and when they come back use advanced spark - fan of flames - drake sweep - piercing winds - meteor rush. With that combo most mobs are dead. You can use glacial spaike also in stead of spark.
Axe BMs are considered better because they are easier in groups. They dont push mobs back, and need no good position. Solo polearm is better in my opinion.
Just get the best from them, get all skills lvl 1 and some decent axes for use in groups, like rebirth. expecially for heavens flame.
One more thing, the best end-game weapon for BM is a poleblade: Dance of Universe. Better than Calloused lionheart hatches.
there, enjoy your polearm BM.0 -
Thanks for giving me hope again leonidas & unoox. I made myself a two socket sound chaser last night as motivation to hit level 51, so the motivation makes me feel like it wasnt a waste.
Im also happy to hear that grinding is so good, as I have a "personal cleric" ( my wife) to grind with
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AyaBrea - Harshlands wrote: »I dont see why you guys are saying pole bm can only take 3~4 mobs. I can tank around 20 monsters per pull and then aoe them to death with Glacial spike( if you have the sparks if not it doesnt matter)->drake sweep->Meteor rush->PIERCINGWINDS ( if you have the spark doesnt matter if you dont use it) -> Meteor rush. The meteor rush allows our charm to tick and helps us handle MASSIVE mobs better than axe users IMO <- just a headsup. With a cleric, our aoe potential may be just a bit less than axes but that is compensated by our powerful skills and high range hits.
LOL i will be able to do that when i hit 59 and get Glacial Spike i only have my linar aoes so untill then i cannot tskr on mobs not only that im A STR AND DEX BUILD ONLY0 -
Hathian - Dreamweaver wrote: »Thanks for giving me hope again leonidas & unoox. I made myself a two socket sound chaser last night as motivation to hit level 51, so the motivation makes me feel like it wasnt a waste.
Im also happy to hear that grinding is so good, as I have a "personal cleric" ( my wife) to grind with
haha i want to get a sound chaser mold so i can make one right now im currently using Blood stained Battle Scythe best poleblade for ur 40s but yea we Pole BMs can compare to the Axe hammers alot of those bms say we cant but just remember Hathian leap back is a key skill to effective Linar AoEs0 -
I agree with PoleBM can AOE just as many mobs as they choose to. I constantly do it now. Would never settle for just three or four, normally push 15+. Yeah leaps help, but are not needed even for AOE's. Push back from Meteor and you can set up all you want for your bleed AOE.
A ton more range yes, farstrike in TW can be equally as helpful on those stinking squishies.
Have been Pole and have no intentions of going Axe. I am not saying one is better then the other, just preference in my play style.0 -
correction on my last Post Tskr is TAKE0
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Leonidas, you shouldnt be aoe grinding till like 66 anyways,upto 53 is dustwraith where pole bm can handle just fine with 4~5 dustwraith at a time, and then 53~56 is questing, and then upto 63 is Foxwing supremes. then you can do 2~3 levels of bats and then you start grinding at seaweed thieves. You shouldnt judge a weapon's capabilities before you are 60, even at 60 its hard to gauge a weapons prowess. And speaking of leaps, it will not help you at all in AoE because it is wasting chi, with 299 chi you can do Glacial -> drakesweep ( makes back 1 chi for1 spark)-> piercing wind->fan of flame-> meteor rush. This combo is fatal because glacial spike reduces defense of the mob. And I think that pole arm is definitely the best PvP weapon for BM. the only think that makes axe seem better is because of XS which is just unfair IMO. every other weapon gets crappy things like phys atk+56 on their 70 weap, whereas XS gets Zerk, and a sht load of HP. If XS wasnt there nobody would be saying anything. However we cant ignore it so, thats the only thing that makes axe better, dps wise, however there r ways to counter it
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AyaBrea - Harshlands wrote: »Leonidas, you shouldnt be aoe grinding till like 66 anyways,upto 53 is dustwraith where pole bm can handle just fine with 4~5 dustwraith at a time, and then 53~56 is questing, and then upto 63 is Foxwing supremes. then you can do 2~3 levels of bats and then you start grinding at seaweed thieves. You shouldnt judge a weapon's capabilities before you are 60, even at 60 its hard to gauge a weapons prowess. And speaking of leaps, it will not help you at all in AoE because it is wasting chi, with 299 chi you can do Glacial -> drakesweep ( makes back 1 chi for1 spark)-> piercing wind->fan of flame-> meteor rush. This combo is fatal because glacial spike reduces defense of the mob. And I think that pole arm is definitely the best PvP weapon for BM. the only think that makes axe seem better is because of XS which is just unfair IMO. every other weapon gets crappy things like phys atk+56 on their 70 weap, whereas XS gets Zerk, and a sht load of HP. If XS wasnt there nobody would be saying anything. However we cant ignore it so, thats the only thing that makes axe better, dps wise, however there r ways to counter it
Axe bms have a 59 skill too... and pole path gets beserk weapon too. I'm not going to argue with you about which weapon is better for pvp but axes are definitely better for aoe grinding. Heaven's Flame has a much better debuff than Glacial Spike, and we don't need to line the mobs up in order to aoe0 -
Polearms are rubbish, sorry.All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring.0
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Filet - Heavens Tear wrote: »Axe bms have a 59 skill too... and pole path gets beserk weapon too. I'm not going to argue with you about which weapon is better for pvp but axes are definitely better for aoe grinding. Heaven's Flame has a much better debuff than Glacial Spike, and we don't need to line the mobs up in order to aoe
Axes are not definitely better for aoe grinding, they are however definitely better at pvp aoe. It's give and take for PVE.
1) Axes do not need to line up mobs, but they take much more damage than pole due to the mobs crowding them. Pole moves the mobs away from you. Any pole BM can aoe without a charm/cleric (sutra and tree is enough), but axes have more trouble with this. This is important because it means that if something were to happen to the market, and charms suddenly increased in price, pole bm would still be able to aoe efficiently (and independently) without them.
2) Although it is more difficult lining up the mobs, it makes every aoe situation unique, and prevents grinding from getting boring. For axes, every pull is exactly the same. Lining up mobs is not as difficult as people think it is, it just takes a bit longer. The advantage to axes is that they kill their pulls more quickly.
3) Meteor Rush can be abused to annoy the pesky herc aoe people, or anyone else aoe grinding mobs (including axe bms). This is the best way to kick venos out of dwp safe zone. b:chuckle Furthermore, having it ensures that we keep our aoe spots, and can even kick other people out if we wanted. The disadvantage to this skill is that it requires a lot of space (preferably open space) to be used. My only regret is that this skill is difficult to use in mass pvp, and pushback can only be used against veno pets in pvp.
4) My experience with Piercing Winds is that it is the second best single spark skill on the tree, and the only aoe spark skill on the tree. I maxed this recently, and I use it on bosses in combination with draw blood. This skill also probably ties with drake bash when being used on bosses (since most bosses can't be stunned). The graphic for this skill is amazing and most people don't even know what the skill is when they see it. Again, this skill is difficult to use in mass pvp, and is nice in 1v1 but not as good as drake bash.
5) While the spike damage for glacial spike is better than dragons, I am ambivalent about the debuff. Defense reduction is clearly a different thing than damage amplification, meaning that an axe bm can work with a pole bm on bosses (although it could be better just having two axe bms there). I don't know if the debuffs can be overwritten by clerics/venos. I need to learn more about this skill before talking about it, but I don't know if I want to level this or heavens flame as an ultimate. The graphic for the skill is nice, but the community feeling is that this skill is not as good as dragons.
Pole AOE is not better or worse than axe AOE on mobs, it is simply a different perspective, and cannot actually be compared as the skills have different purposes and work differently. The main give and take about differences is speed and costs. If you want high speed and high costs go axe. In my experience, pole saves more money but at the cost of killing slower.0 -
Just wanted to add 2 things.
About AoE grinding, axes kill mobs faster, but due to pole's capability to push mobs back, we take way less dmg. So we can take more mobs on the same time without dieing. Which more or less equals out the efficiency.
And the ultimates.
Heavens flame debuff is better than glacial spike debuff, BUT glacial spike lasts 10 secs and heavens flame 6 secs. If the amp from heavens flame would increase the dmg taken twice as much as glacial spike does, it would only be a bit better.
Honestly I dont know how much the dmg amp is on both, but I cant imagine one is more than twice the other. So my guess the the two are not that far appart.0 -
Just wanted to add 2 things.
About AoE grinding, axes kill mobs faster, but due to pole's capability to push mobs back, we take way less dmg. So we can take more mobs on the same time without dieing. Which more or less equals out the efficiency.
And the ultimates.
Heavens flame debuff is better than glacial spike debuff, BUT glacial spike lasts 10 secs and heavens flame 6 secs. If the amp from heavens flame would increase the dmg taken twice as much as glacial spike does, it would only be a bit better.
Honestly I dont know how much the dmg amp is on both, but I cant imagine one is more than twice the other. So my guess the the two are not that far appart.
lol i know but wheres the fun if theres no challange lol :Plove pushing back if only it worked in PvP damnit>.<love making the mobs bleed lol0 -
onn this id say leap back will get ur mobs perfectly lined up for ur aoes drakes sweep is a good skill to have cause of AoE same with Fan of Flames XDOk to give you some headsup.
Polearm BMs rock. Why? We have more range, faster skills, harder hitting skils --> higher DPS.
I totally agree with AyaBrea on AoE grinding, its complete nonsense that we cant grind on more than 3-4 mobs. More like 15-20. Here's a great combo:
Gather mobs with Cloud sprint, use roar to get good aggro. Get a good position to hit them all with AoE: fan of flames - drake sweep - meteor rush. Once you have 299 chi, do the same and when they come back use advanced spark - fan of flames - drake sweep - piercing winds - meteor rush. With that combo most mobs are dead. You can use glacial spaike also in stead of spark.
Axe BMs are considered better because they are easier in groups. They dont push mobs back, and need no good position. Solo polearm is better in my opinion.
Just get the best from them, get all skills lvl 1 and some decent axes for use in groups, like rebirth. expecially for heavens flame.
One more thing, the best end-game weapon for BM is a poleblade: Dance of Universe. Better than Calloused lionheart hatches.
there, enjoy your polearm BM.0 -
True, for me a few steps backwards does the trick too tho. That way I can save the chi for spark eruptions/glacial spike ^_^
About push back in PvP, im very glad it doesnt work! If would be amazing against other BM's and barbs, but a REAL pain in the **** against caster classes, which are pretty much all the classes we are strong against if we are in melee range... Push back would just get us killed there.0 -
Just wanted to add 2 things.
About AoE grinding, axes kill mobs faster, but due to pole's capability to push mobs back, we take way less dmg. So we can take more mobs on the same time without dieing. Which more or less equals out the efficiency.
And the ultimates.
Heavens flame debuff is better than glacial spike debuff, BUT glacial spike lasts 10 secs and heavens flame 6 secs. If the amp from heavens flame would increase the dmg taken twice as much as glacial spike does, it would only be a bit better.
Honestly I dont know how much the dmg amp is on both, but I cant imagine one is more than twice the other. So my guess the the two are not that far appart.
Even though glacial spike lasts 10 sec and heaven's flame only lasts 6, the damage taken from heaven's flame is much much more.
We all know that the more def one starts with, any additional gives a decreasing amount of resistance. For ex. if i only had 1k pdef, an extra 1k pdef would reduce damage much more than if i had 5k pdef and i got an extra 1k pdef.
Pirate minions lvl 76, have 1173 pdef. I took off most of my equips to get close to that number, and I got to 828 pdef which cuts dmg by 20% from mobs my level. I put on my leggings, and I got 2391 pdef, which cuts dmg by 43% from mobs my level. My pdef has almost tripled, and dmg cut has only increased 23%. I'm going to be generous here and say that if my pdef had doubled instead of tripled I would've dmg would've been cut by an additional 20% (that number should be under 20).
According to that logic, if pdef is halved (glacial spike), then dmg taken should increase by 20%. Now compare the two skills side by side
Heaven's Flame (Target takes 100% more damage for 6 seconds)
Glacial Spike (Target takes 20% more damage for 10 seconds)
Note that the 20% damage is assuming that target's pdef/mdef is extremely low (1k-3k). If you're in actual pvp where people have upwards of 5k def the 50% mdef/pdef debuff becomes even more ineffective.
If that still hasn't convinced you that heaven's flame's debuff is much better, then lets make up some numbers. To keep it simple lets say each hit deals 1000 damage, and axe users will get 8 hits in a 10 second interval while polearm users will get 10 hits in a 10 second interval
Axe user with heaven's flame = 2000+2000+2000+2000+1000+1000+1000+1000 = 12,000
Polearm user with Glacial Spike= 1200*10 = 12,000
Both end up with the same damage, even though the polearm hit 10 times while the axe user only hit 8. This example was generous to the polearm side anyway, I was assuming the axe user couldn't fit in a 5th hit in the 6 second interval heaven's flame debuff, and I was assuming that the polearm user could hit just as hard as the axe user. Also I was assuming that both were using NORMAL attacks, which is definitely not the case in aoe grinding where attack speed becomes useless due to spamming skills.
If you use skills instead of normal attacks, both the axe and polearm user should have roughly the same amount of hits, so then the axe user will definitely outdamage the polearm user due to heaven's flame debuff being far superior to the glacial spike debuff.0 -
Filet is correct. As a Polearm BM myself, I know that HF's debuff is much better. Reducing someone's resistance by 50% does not mean that they will take 50% more damage. One way to think of is that in the damage calculation equation for 1 player hitting the other, amplify happens to the result of the equation while resistance reduction applies to a part of the equation. Resistance doesn’t directly equal to damage taken but is a factor in the calculation. If you have A+B+C as the result of the damage taken and A is (1/resistance), decreasing resistance with Spike by 50% (increase A by 50%) is not the same as increase (A+B+C) by 50% which is the case for HF.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk0 -
You convinced me, Heaven's Flame is better.
Just want to comment on one thing: Filet states that "If you use skills instead of normal attacks, both the axe and polearm user should have roughly the same amount of hits"
If you look at the skill times, you will see that all polearm skills are faster than axe skills. So polearm would still land more hits.
And why is the skill description of Heavens Flame so unclear? It says target will receive 100% of that dmg over 6 seconds... That is something else entirely.0 -
And why is the skill description of Heavens Flame so unclear? It says target will receive 100% of that dmg over 6 seconds... That is something else entirely.
HF's description on Ecatomb is a little messed up. It made it sound like HF is doing DOT.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk0 -
Yea it rly does, hence my previous conclusion... Description is the same in game btw.
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT! This is a polearm braggin topic so Glacial Spike looks way cooler than HF! ^_^0 -
Yea it rly does, hence my previous conclusion... Description is the same in game btw.
BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT! This is a polearm braggin topic so Glacial Spike looks way cooler than HF! ^_^
Yeah true I just took a look and meteor rush is only 1.1 sec total while highland cleave and fissure are 2.4 and 1.7 sec respectively. The axe aoes do more dmg, although i dont know if that makes up for the slower skill speed. Either way I do agree that glacial spike looks better :P0 -
yay finally a topic in which ppl can agree with each other xD
*going polearm/axe hybrid to kick some serious *****0 -
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I refuse to conform to axe-usery until level 80-90 D;< (or until I have enough spirit to do it)0
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Bump of pole-arm justice!0
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