Cumulative Veno Fixes Please
Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear
Posts: 406 Arc User
Alright, I think it is honestly time to fix us Venos. Why has it taken the Devs so LONG to fix the myriad of issues with Venomancers? We have to be one of the most bugged classes in the entire game. I KNOW that the Chinese have a great dislike of Kitsune and their ilk but come ON. Anyway, here is a list of the bugs that really need to just be laid to rest already:
1) When trying to change your skin color it only changes your face AND it changes your tail color which it is not supposed to and is bannable. Seriously, the GAME does this not us. It is not a **** it is a Bug so please can we have this corrected?
2) Pet Models show as the "Far/Low Quality" model instead of the "Close/High Quality" Model. The Close Model obvioulsy exists and I am certain this would not cause any more lag than Genies or having pets to begin with so can we please have correct looking pets? They can switch to Far Model when people are "Far" from them as approprait.
3) Make Swimming Mastery work. Every race has their specailty when it comes to movement. Humans are great at SUDDENLY covering a lot of ground. Elves can fly from the first day they log on. Untamed are supposed to have the highest consistant speed be it from Summer Sprint, True Form, or Swimming Mastery. It is not over powering in any way to allow Venos to Swim faster in keeping with this theme. I have NEVER seen PvP in the water and I doubt it is very common. Even if it does happen and the opponent feels disadvantaged they will just take to the air so I cannot FATHOM how this skill is so OP. Either make this one work or take it out for both altogether.
4) Flesh Ream is bugged in PvP according to pretty much everyone. I understand that our pets do not deal as much damage as a player but there is still no reason to have them so specially privaledged especially with just one skill. Just make it code like Garrote, Draw Blood, the Tiger's Flesh Ream, or any other Player's Bleed Skill and get it taken care of.
5) Air Pet Attack Bug that makes the Monster it is attacking unable to fight back but not reset and regen like it would for anything else attacking in the air. I am not precisely sure how to bring this about but I know I have done it on accident a few times against normal monsters and again this is a bannable offense that is NOT OUR FAULT. If this bug were fixed then it would never happen and we would not get in trouble for it but as it stands unless you know why it happens it makes it really hard to never do it and it is just inane that you have to watch for it all the time just because the Devs have yet to fix this problem. (Never been reported or anything myself but if I was for doing it on accident I would be steaming mad)
6) Air Pets attacking ground Monsters often get stuck on hills and any other object that is slightly raised...This is just annoying and it would not seem like such a big deal to force them to rise up the way players do when driving into a solid surface like the ground. A quick fix to end this sometimes maddening issue.
7) Swamp of the Wraith is an EXTREMELY annoying place for Venos because the water there seems to randomly make our Pets Unsummon which can be deadly and frustrating. This requires us to use air pets which can lead to a lot of 5 & 6 happening during already stressful battles. There has to be SOME way to label that water as not deep enough to be a problem for our Pets or some other way to stop that from happening all the time because it is really frustrating.
8) Pulling through Doors & Barriers is another obvious Bug and while it can be helpful and is much easier to avoid doing than the other Bugs it is still a Bug and should be taken out. Best fix for this might be just to not allow Camera mode to Clip through objects because then we could not target the opponent behind the Door to begin with. Though, while we are at this let us also be fixing the enemies ability to attack US through barriers Please.
9) Being unable to Switch INTO or OUT OF Fox Form Barehanded when it clearly states you can do so in the description can be frustating. It can be rough when the weapon breaks while in Fox Form and prevents your ability to change Back (at least for some Venos...Not me LOL) and it makes taming weaker pets harder when you want to take your weapon off but still have the defense of Fox Form so you survive but do not slaughter the poor monster.
That is all the Veno problems I am currently aware of/can remember but anyone may add others to this list please. There is one that is universal that I find distasteful which is the fact that for Females the various Spark Erruption skills cost Coin & Spirit yet for Males they are free. Come on, do not wear a sexist attitude on your sleeve please. It is bad enough we have the "Carry" issues but that is much more blatantly insulting so could we either make every gender pay or be free for all and get that squared away?
Thank you anyone for reading this and please reply if you agree, have any other Bugs you know of, or have any constructive criticism besides "Programming is Haaard" and "This is not the full game so of course it is bugged" because neither are really acceptable defenses.
1) When trying to change your skin color it only changes your face AND it changes your tail color which it is not supposed to and is bannable. Seriously, the GAME does this not us. It is not a **** it is a Bug so please can we have this corrected?
2) Pet Models show as the "Far/Low Quality" model instead of the "Close/High Quality" Model. The Close Model obvioulsy exists and I am certain this would not cause any more lag than Genies or having pets to begin with so can we please have correct looking pets? They can switch to Far Model when people are "Far" from them as approprait.
3) Make Swimming Mastery work. Every race has their specailty when it comes to movement. Humans are great at SUDDENLY covering a lot of ground. Elves can fly from the first day they log on. Untamed are supposed to have the highest consistant speed be it from Summer Sprint, True Form, or Swimming Mastery. It is not over powering in any way to allow Venos to Swim faster in keeping with this theme. I have NEVER seen PvP in the water and I doubt it is very common. Even if it does happen and the opponent feels disadvantaged they will just take to the air so I cannot FATHOM how this skill is so OP. Either make this one work or take it out for both altogether.
4) Flesh Ream is bugged in PvP according to pretty much everyone. I understand that our pets do not deal as much damage as a player but there is still no reason to have them so specially privaledged especially with just one skill. Just make it code like Garrote, Draw Blood, the Tiger's Flesh Ream, or any other Player's Bleed Skill and get it taken care of.
5) Air Pet Attack Bug that makes the Monster it is attacking unable to fight back but not reset and regen like it would for anything else attacking in the air. I am not precisely sure how to bring this about but I know I have done it on accident a few times against normal monsters and again this is a bannable offense that is NOT OUR FAULT. If this bug were fixed then it would never happen and we would not get in trouble for it but as it stands unless you know why it happens it makes it really hard to never do it and it is just inane that you have to watch for it all the time just because the Devs have yet to fix this problem. (Never been reported or anything myself but if I was for doing it on accident I would be steaming mad)
6) Air Pets attacking ground Monsters often get stuck on hills and any other object that is slightly raised...This is just annoying and it would not seem like such a big deal to force them to rise up the way players do when driving into a solid surface like the ground. A quick fix to end this sometimes maddening issue.
7) Swamp of the Wraith is an EXTREMELY annoying place for Venos because the water there seems to randomly make our Pets Unsummon which can be deadly and frustrating. This requires us to use air pets which can lead to a lot of 5 & 6 happening during already stressful battles. There has to be SOME way to label that water as not deep enough to be a problem for our Pets or some other way to stop that from happening all the time because it is really frustrating.
8) Pulling through Doors & Barriers is another obvious Bug and while it can be helpful and is much easier to avoid doing than the other Bugs it is still a Bug and should be taken out. Best fix for this might be just to not allow Camera mode to Clip through objects because then we could not target the opponent behind the Door to begin with. Though, while we are at this let us also be fixing the enemies ability to attack US through barriers Please.
9) Being unable to Switch INTO or OUT OF Fox Form Barehanded when it clearly states you can do so in the description can be frustating. It can be rough when the weapon breaks while in Fox Form and prevents your ability to change Back (at least for some Venos...Not me LOL) and it makes taming weaker pets harder when you want to take your weapon off but still have the defense of Fox Form so you survive but do not slaughter the poor monster.
That is all the Veno problems I am currently aware of/can remember but anyone may add others to this list please. There is one that is universal that I find distasteful which is the fact that for Females the various Spark Erruption skills cost Coin & Spirit yet for Males they are free. Come on, do not wear a sexist attitude on your sleeve please. It is bad enough we have the "Carry" issues but that is much more blatantly insulting so could we either make every gender pay or be free for all and get that squared away?
Thank you anyone for reading this and please reply if you agree, have any other Bugs you know of, or have any constructive criticism besides "Programming is Haaard" and "This is not the full game so of course it is bugged" because neither are really acceptable defenses.
Post edited by Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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I've personally experienced 7) - the unsummoning of a pet in Swamp of the Wraiths...and that IS annoying...and was deadly to me twice. It's also allowing the game to cheat against the player and grant the wraiths advantages they should not have. Just as I do not condone players that cheat, nor do I condone NPCs that cheat. I'd like to definately see bugs like this stepped on a.s.a.p.
Also had 6) - Air pets getting stuck on hills...this is just as bad as 7)...and can be just as deadly to a veno...espcially if that veno gets aggro when it happens.
Not sure about 8)...if you mean things like a mob shooting you/poisoning you from the other side of a wall, then yep I've had that happen....secret passage is notorious for that...another NPC "cheat" move classic and a nasty cheap shot.
Had 9)...I need a weapon to change in and out of fox form, but this doesn't niggle me as much as the other bugs above, this bug I can tolerate...lol. I do keep my weapons and armor regularly repaired after each grinding run and have multiple weapons to chose from, so not too much agrrivation for me.
Never really experienced problems with the other items you list here. My Veno is red all over and appears so on my display, didn't have the tail colour change etc.
The swim boost seem to work and I have noticed I swim faster than some people...but only marginly...seems more noticable over a longer distance too. Also before my veno got swim mastery she swam slower than a snail going up hill through frozen treacle on a frosty day...lol, after she got Swim Mastery she moved faster...don't think I want that removed thanks :-)
as for 4) The Flesh Ream/pet skills, well I always thought the pet skills were a touch...lame, even when on a higher lvl I'm left sitting there wondering if there's any point in buying pet skill upgrades when they considerably weaker than both NPC and Player versions of the same skill type. There needs to be more consistancy with skills right accross the board. At the moment I just stick to my pet's physical attacks which are considerably stronger than their crackerjack skills.
for 2), dunno what to make of this one...I don't appear to get that bug, so at this point I'm wondering if it's something to do with either the graphics settings on the game, one's graphics card or some other factors such as drivers/codecs that are installed and what not. This might go hand in hand with me not experiencing the tail/face colour change bug as well. It's a long shot, but I'd suggest checking to make sure you have the latest Direct X runtime installed (Direct X 9.0c I think...), if it's not that perhaps try one of the codec packs you can get (make sure you set a system restore point before installing codecs incase of undesired effects), K-Lite codec pack is pretty good and there's a Vista equivelant available if one searches google.
And before you jump down my throat and accuse me of thinking you're an idiot...no I don't think that, I'm merely covering the bases...better to do that than not communicate and make false assumptions.
Also if you have Vista, which has Direct X 10, you should still install Direct X 9.0c or whatever the latest DX 9 Runtime is at the time. This won't over-write DX 10, and it helps when running pre-Vista games and software for backwards compatibilty reasons.
If this stuff I meantioned about codecs and DX doesn't apply to you for whatever reason, then I appologise....and it'd mean you got a problem/bug that's gonna leave me scratching my head for a while...o.O
I hope some of my input has been useful at least.
Perhaps we'll meet in-game sometime...lol :-P0 -
I have a veno alt, and I approve the OP's post.0
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This is kinda the full game. But wholeheartedly agree, a lot of it is down to the coding of pets. The game doesn't react to them the same way as players hence the flesh ream, skull marked, flying attacks, luring through doors, poor terrain movement bugs etc.
Swimming mastery and fox form changes are the ones that suprise me. They had no problem editing the skill effects of bramble hood so why haven't they fixed those two?
Also I'm fairly certain that my spark erupts have both costed(albeit small) spirit and money.Currently flying internet spaceships around dodixie, moving to amarr soon.
Send me a mail if you wanna ask/request anything
Sanctuary's retired king of wizards alongside queen Saintblu.0 -
Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »This is kinda the full game. But wholeheartedly agree, a lot of it is down to the coding of pets. The game doesn't react to them the same way as players hence the flesh ream, skull marked, flying attacks, luring through doors, poor terrain movement bugs etc.
Swimming mastery and fox form changes are the ones that suprise me. They had no problem editing the skill effects of bramble hood so why haven't they fixed those two?
Also I'm fairly certain that my spark erupts have both costed(albeit small) spirit and money.
Hmmm really? I noticed that on neither my own Blade Master nor my Husband's Barbarian did he have to pay for his Eruptions but for my Cleric, This Character, and my friend's Female Archer they have all had to pay.0 -
SuccubusGenX - Heavens Tear wrote: »8)...if you mean things like a mob shooting you/poisoning you from the other side of a wall, then yep I've had that happen....secret passage is notorious for that...another NPC "cheat" move classic and a nasty cheap shot.
Never really experienced problems with the other items you list here. My Veno is red all over and appears so on my display, didn't have the tail colour change etc.
The swim boost seem to work and I have noticed I swim faster than some people...but only marginly...seems more noticable over a longer distance too. Also before my veno got swim mastery she swam slower than a snail going up hill through frozen treacle on a frosty day...lol, after she got Swim Mastery she moved faster...don't think I want that removed thanks :-)
as for 4) The Flesh Ream/pet skills, well I always thought the pet skills were a touch...lame, even when on a higher lvl I'm left sitting there wondering if there's any point in buying pet skill upgrades when they considerably weaker than both NPC and Player versions of the same skill type. There needs to be more consistancy with skills right accross the board. At the moment I just stick to my pet's physical attacks which are considerably stronger than their crackerjack skills.
for 2), dunno what to make of this one...I don't appear to get that bug, so at this point I'm wondering if it's something to do with either the graphics settings on the game, one's graphics card or some other factors such as drivers/codecs that are installed and what not. This might go hand in hand with me not experiencing the tail/face colour change bug as well. It's a long shot, but I'd suggest checking to make sure you have the latest Direct X runtime installed (Direct X 9.0c I think...), if it's not that perhaps try one of the codec packs you can get (make sure you set a system restore point before installing codecs incase of undesired effects), K-Lite codec pack is pretty good and there's a Vista equivelant available if one searches google.
And before you jump down my throat and accuse me of thinking you're an idiot...no I don't think that, I'm merely covering the bases...better to do that than not communicate and make false assumptions.
Also if you have Vista, which has Direct X 10, you should still install Direct X 9.0c or whatever the latest DX 9 Runtime is at the time. This won't over-write DX 10, and it helps when running pre-Vista games and software for backwards compatibilty reasons.
If this stuff I meantioned about codecs and DX doesn't apply to you for whatever reason, then I appologise....and it'd mean you got a problem/bug that's gonna leave me scratching my head for a while...o.O
Firstly, thanks for the rather indepth reply lol. More importantly though to 8 yes that is what I am talking about.
You appear to be a "Demon" veno by appearence and they do not experience the skin color problem only Fox Tailed Venos have the bug. Make a Fox Veno character some time then go back and edit her (before that period is done) and change her skin color and watch it mess up.
For the pet models thing it depends on the pet sometimes. Herc & Nix of course are immune but grab any Foxwing and look at it closely. Or see it on someone else, their front legs are 2D from the sides, their fur texture is largely missing, their front rough is 2D...Wolves look more scrawny and scraggly. Minkies lose their ordamentations as pets often and some others get this problem. I am not sure how much it effects Golems and Bugs (I think it makes the Bugs look slightly less fleshed out) and Mecha Crabs seem immune thankfully but it does happen. As for my system, it is a fully up to date gaming machine so it is not a graphical problem. I can run the game full blast with only minor slow downs (mostly only in West Arch) and I still see this problem.
I agree with Pet Skills they are outragously expensive to upgrade considering how small of an improvement you get and how weak pets are compared to people. It would be a alot better if they just made all of them a bit more robust to make up a bit for pet stats or lowered the price to upgrade. I mean who wants to pay 100K for 2 more points or 2% more all the time?0 -
Only Fox venos, eh?...that is weird. must be a bug relating to the character model's grouping/textures/UVmaps of that particular figure, it's the only unique thing I can think of anyways regarding that kind of anomaly. I'll have to try that create/edit a fox veno to test it out as you suggested.
Good to hear you got a fully up-to-date gameing machine..it's nice to have a good rig...heh. :-)
I haven't noticed any missing textures on my foxwing...which is currently sitting in my bank as I prefer the Insect Mistress for a flying pet (it seems to be tougher)....but I might have to pull it out of there and grab some screenies soon. Also I don't recall any of my foxwing's legs looking 2D...but I did notice their legs looked a very basic 3D "blocks" which I was unimpressed with which is why the memory stuck...lol.
In all honesty I haven't noticed any graphical differance between pets before and after tameing, and I got the graphics settings on max...and a pretty good gameing/graphics PC, so it beats me as to why it's happening on yours.
It wouldn't be the first time there's been a difference when someone noticed a graphic bug and I didn't. This might be one for the x-files or twighlight zone or something...lol.
The only real difference with tamed pets I've noticed on my end is the tamed pets seem to forget the skills they had before they were tamed. A good example is, the Tabby Plumdrop has a vampiric ability before it's tamed...after, that's gone...meh. Guess wonder horse is waiting behind every tree in PW and kicks our pets in the head when we tame 'em so they forget the skills...lol.
I really hope they correct this and allow pets to retain the skills they had prior to being tamed....and we're back on the skills issue again...lol.
so pets are nerfed in more ways than one it would seem.
And you're right about my veno...a female demon is what I was aiming for...hence the name...lol.0 -
I wish there were male Venos and female Barbarians as well, although this isn't really a bug.Owner of Sonic the Plumber.0
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You know what else should be added/fixed,the fact that venos whitenamed can have their pets attacked while inside a safezone,its BS,you revive your pet inside safe and have a whole bunch of morons kill it again before it can be healed rendering you next to useless b:angry
Oh and the fact you can't heal your own pet while sword marked.
I also agree with the path finding of pets it's haphazard implementation.Quit 100%...and surprised my forum account wasn't banned...yet0 -
MentalEdge - Heavens Tear wrote: »You know what else should be added/fixed,the fact that venos whitenamed can have their pets attacked while inside a safezone,its BS,you revive your pet inside safe and have a whole bunch of morons kill it again before it can be healed rendering you next to useless b:angry
Oh and the fact you can't heal your own pet while sword marked.
I also agree with the path finding of pets it's haphazard implementation.
I do not PvP flag so obviously missed this one but thank you for adding it because those two sound like really rediculous bugs to have to deal with.0 -
SuccubusGenX here is some screens of the pet model issue for you. The shots on the top are of my Foxwing of the Void and the ones on the bottom are of a wild Foxwing of the Void. Just look at how much texture is dropped between the two and the 2D leg problems. (Sorry about the bottom middle shot, my own glow made him look a bit pink lol)
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SuccubusGenX - Heavens Tear wrote: »as for 4) The Flesh Ream/pet skills, well I always thought the pet skills were a touch...lame, even when on a higher lvl I'm left sitting there wondering if there's any point in buying pet skill upgrades when they considerably weaker than both NPC and Player versions of the same skill type. There needs to be more consistancy with skills right accross the board. At the moment I just stick to my pet's physical attacks which are considerably stronger than their crackerjack skills.
I still don't see how pet skills are so lame and inferior to characters spells? Even without the missing pvp reduction flesh ream on a lvl 90 phoenix would deal 10650 physical damage over 9 seconds. The archers demon bleed skill deals only 5200 damage over 15! seconds...0 -
Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »I still don't see how pet skills are so lame and inferior to characters spells? Even without the missing pvp reduction flesh ream on a lvl 90 phoenix would deal 10650 physical damage over 9 seconds. The archers demon bleed skill deals only 5200 damage over 15! seconds...
They are lame because you have to spend a LOT to get them (Usually 300K or more, 700K for some of the better ones) and then 100K per level you want to upgrade them. Ontop of that most of them are just a flat-out Damage boost to a base Damage that is comparatively weak. Your damage calculation above fails to account for the fact that your base damage will blow a Phoenix out of the water and you Crit often when pets never do. Also pets have no AoE of any kind whatsoever, no knock back, and no stun that I have ever seen.
Also when doing those calculations keep in mind that if you are using Nix & Herc then you better be using the equivalent class with a +11 weapon of the same level because Nix & Herc are that much more insanely powerful than a normal pet and should NEVER be considered to be "Standard" in ANY fashion.0 -
Im not a Veno, but alot of people say that your pet is the shield, and you are the damage-dealer.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »They are lame because you have to spend a LOT to get them (Usually 300K or more, 700K for some of the better ones) and then 100K per level you want to upgrade them. Ontop of that most of them are just a flat-out Damage boost to a base Damage that is comparatively weak. Your damage calculation above fails to account for the fact that your base damage will blow a Phoenix out of the water and you Crit often when pets never do. Also pets have no AoE of any kind whatsoever, no knock back, and no stun that I have ever seen.
Also when doing those calculations keep in mind that if you are using Nix & Herc then you better be using the equivalent class with a +11 weapon of the same level because Nix & Herc are that much more insanely powerful than a normal pet and should NEVER be considered to be "Standard" in ANY fashion.
I don't want another venos-are-imba-(or not)-diskussion. All i want is to point out that pet skills do NOT suck and are NOT, as a matter of principle, inferior to player skills like you've stated. Regarding the spirit and coin price, to get my crappy archer bleed to lvl 11 demon would cost me 2.672.100 spirit and 3.096.000 coins. Even if the pets bleed lvl 5 would deal reduced damage in pvp, it would still have more then 3x the damage per second of the archers bleed skill. And don't forget: it doesn't suffer from the 75% damage reduction.
You are right about aoes and knockbacks (even tho i don't know why you would need them) but there is a pet stun. It's called pounce, has a 80% chance to stun and increase your pets attackspeed by 25%. The chickenbombs in fb 39 and the phoenix have it.
And regarding your +11 weapon suggestion: you can't compare +11 refining to a battlepet - neither in price (+11 costs nearly 1500$) nor in effectivity.0 -
Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »I don't want another venos-are-imba-(or not)-diskussion. All i want is to point out that pet skills do NOT suck and are NOT, as a matter of principle, inferior to player skills like you've stated. Regarding the spirit and coin price, to get my crappy archer bleed to lvl 11 demon would cost me 2.672.100 spirit and 3.096.000 coins. Even if the pets bleed lvl 5 would deal reduced damage in pvp, it would still have more then 3x the damage per second of the archers bleed skill. And don't forget: it doesn't suffer from the 75% damage reduction.
You are right about aoes and knockbacks (even tho i don't know why you would need them) but there is a pet stun. It's called pounce, has a 80% chance to stun and increase your pets attackspeed by 25%. The chickenbombs in fb 39 and the phoenix have it.
And regarding your +11 weapon suggestion: you can't compare +11 refining to a battlepet - neither in price (+11 costs nearly 1500$) nor in effectivity.
What I am trying to get through to you is that you keep forgetting your own base DAMAGE. Yes, the bleed is better for the Nix but your initial hit is going to be more powerful as an archer which is going to counter balance the Total Damage, especially if you Crit which is VERY likely. Also yours hits at RANGE and the Nix does not have RANGED attacks so you might want to factor in that your opponent is still trying to cross the distance and whereas the Nix has to be in their Face to even initiate that attack. What are you doing while waiting for the bleed and for them to reach you? I suspect you are dishing out even more of the ungodly Archer Damage either via Skills or Straight shots and if you do the calculation of actual DPS (Damage Per Second) you Vs. the Nix you will find out that you blow it away. Also your Demon Skill Heals you while they are taking that Damage which makes it a Life Stealer so there is NO comparison at ALL. As for the price it will be 1.1 Million Coin to get and upgrade that skill JUST TO LEVEL 5...You are talking about a lvl 11 skill vs. one you only get to level 5 and it already costs 1.1 Million to get it that high and let us not forget that in the meantime the Veno is still spending Coin and Spirit on HER skills. For normal pets she also is going to need to spend more Coin for even more skills if she wants them to be very worthwhile and this is where the price problem comes in. You are spending a lot of Coin for an ultimate skill whereas the Veno is going to be spending a lot of Coin of mediocre skills for a Pet they may not even keep their entire play time (Because not all of us run around with a Nix thank you very much). It would be like having your Bow/Slingshot/X-Bow have skills of its own and it is pretty much worthless without them so you better get it the right skills and get them up or you are just wasting your time but each skill it has is going to be pretty bland even when you spend to max it out. Now you still need your archer skills too so you better be careful what you spend all that coin on. Oh and in the meantime it will never Crit so you better not count on any Spike Vs. Charms either.
Most pet skills are, as I said, just extra Damage in some flavor of Element or Straight out Damage. Bash for instants will always suck compared to Take Aim/Deadly Shot. Lightning Strike > Thunderbolt, Pyrogram > Fireball, Penetrate Armor > Pierce (The Prior Deals Damage & Lowers P. Def the latter just reduces P. Def), Devour >> Pierce...etc...I could go down the whole list and show you the Player Skills which are better but the Players also have a lot of skills that Pets do not have anything even close to. I would LOVE my pet to have a version of Leech for instance but no Dice. So the base argument you want to make "Pet Skills are not weak compared to Player Skills" is wrong. One Pet skill, Flesh Ream, on one Pet, Nix, is more powerful than one Player Skill if you ignore Base Damage & Range...Wow...That is not a trend that is only one faulty example.
As for the comparison the Nix is the ultimate Damage dealer for a Veno and is going to run her around $200 to get and much much more to keep fed (That is $4 to $7 a Week depending on how the Veno chooses to Feed it and how often they use it) so it may be cheaper in the short term if your estimates are correct but over time it is just going to keep costing and unlike your weapon which will be set for life the Veno has to level this Pet and keep it from Dying in combat and can NEVER sell it to anyone. You want to point out the Nix as your example then you have to anchor that in the reality that if you are talking about one ultimate weapon you have to compare it to another ultimate weapon (Not Warsole though because that is unobtainable) or the comparison is flawed. That is like saying that a person can do more damage with a Rocket Launcher than a 30 Cal Rifle...Sort of obvious and not worthy of comparison. Now I am not going to get started on Nix & Herc being unfair but let me assure you I am not a huge fan of them anyway.
For the Pet is your Shield and you are their DD above there are problems with that. If your pet does not out DD you at least every so often they lose Aggro and you are going to be Tanking. If you have to spend all your time healing your pet they become the DD and everything takes forever with their low DPS. I find in my experience that as no Veno is as powerful by herself as a similar class (Mage Venos damage =/= Wizzards or Clerics, Fox Venos Damage =/= Blade Master or Barb) that it is really that your Pet and you are both Half the Damage and Half the Tank of the team. You are really meant to be a Team of Two which sometimes works good and other times...well...Does not. This is why Knockback for Mage Venos could be a good thing because it would get the enemy off their pet long enough for a bit more healing and extra ranged damage from the Veno.
In conclusion I know I should not bother explaining all this with that infernal logic and all as it is not the point of my Thread but I get tired of people making outrageous claims about what Veno pets can do compared to themselves without really taking the time to think it all the way through. Like has been said "A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing."0 -
b:shockedb:cry
You didn't understand me. Fist off, i completly agree with your initial post and i think you are right about all the fixes are needed but you missed the point in what i've said. It wasn't my intention to start another discussion about veno pets strength. I only disagreed with SuccubusGenX saying in this post (paragraph 6) that pet skills, especially flesh ream are inferior to their player-equivalents both in cost and effect.
There is no point arguing about archer hits harder then pets do but i've never tried to disprove that, but i appreciare your effort to defend your pets.
so long,
Osiris
Edit: what is wrong with the forum? I tried to send this about 100 times but it always posted only 30% of my text...0 -
Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »b:shockedb:cry
You didn't understand me. Fist off, i completly agree with your initial post and i think you are right about all the fixes are needed but you missed the point in what i've said. It wasn't my intention to start another discussion about veno pets strength. I only disagreed with SuccubusGenX saying in this post (paragraph 6) that pet skills, especially flesh ream are inferior to their player-equivalents both in cost and effect.
There is no point arguing about archer hits harder then pets do but i've never tried to disprove that, but i appreciare your effort to defend your pets.
so long,
Osiris
Edit: what is wrong with the forum? I tried to send this about 100 times but it always posted only 30% of my text...
The forum is against you... it is purely personal, not technical reason why it is doing itToo often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Osiris your comments sound more like someone that's never played as a veno before.
Pet skills DO suck....BIG TIME!!
here's an accurate comparrison for ya - my Veno's Noxious Gas is way more powerful when it was LEVEL ONE than my Florafang Guard's Toxic Mist currently is which I believe is a LEVEL 3.
Also add to this that tamed pets lose much of their skills and strength once tamed campared to what they're like when you battle the damn thing to get it and you got a feeling of being "ripped off" with something that's half baked...meh.
NO pet of mine does 10K dmg....not even close!!...I'd be lucky to get 10% of that kind of dmg.
Nixes and hercs ARE NOT regular pets...those have to be bought, so please stop useing those as baseline comparrisons, the average veno player doesn't have those.
Also Hasukurobi brought up some very valid points as to why pet skills DO suck and you practicly ignored the entire post.
Half of what I was going to say is in Hasukurobi's post...lol.
by the way, nice post Hasukurobi....heh. :-)
and thanks for the screen shots....I still don't get that on my Foxwing...or leastways, I didn't use to unless they mucked something up on the last update...lol.
Is a weird bug that one...and looks like an irritating one.
back to pet skills - I think what it boils down to is some players out there are afraid of what would happen if the devs did the decent thing and made pets so you got exactly what you tamed in the first place (i.e. the Echo Maid type mermaid creatures with that deadly whirlpool skill....or the Tabby Plumdrop with the leach/vampiric drain skill)...that and the same toughness/strength the NPC version has and the Veno has a PROPER bodyguard instead of a mouse pretending to be a rhino...lol.
The problem is then the Veno's pet would actually be able to keep some people busy in PK mode while the Veno sneaks up from behind the pet and donks them on the head...(as it should be...lol).
I don't plan on going PK mode, that is why I'm on HT and not one of the other servers, so the PK worry is kind of a moot point.
So crappy PK mode aside...I'm more concerned about the mobs who have no problem taking every advantage they can get against a Veno who has a nerfed pet...and if you don't think mobs take advantage...just try creating a veno and sending a pet into Swamp of the Wraiths...o.O
I'm pretty sure a lot of Venos out there know exactly what I mean.
Bottom line, devs should either grant tamed pets with exactly the same stats/strengths/skills etc as the pre-tameable versions...or nerf the pre-tameable versions to match the tamed ones (so if, for example, a veno's Echo Maid don't have the whirlpool skill thing...then neither should the NPC version).
Sounds fair to me...lol. :-P0
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