Question about Venomancer Luring.

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shrededbox
shrededbox Posts: 1 Arc User
edited July 2009 in Venomancer
Today, when i was doing a FB with my guildmates. I told them that i should be using my Veno to lure. However two of my guildies said that it was useless and isn't very efficient especially at a higher level. Such as when i am 80+ are so. Is this true?
I'm Currently in my level 30's
Post edited by shrededbox on

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  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited March 2009
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    Well, if you were farming Apocalypse Pages in fb89 or such, I would assume luring would be useful. In fb69, you have to pull one of the two gigantic bosses near the end and they often run around with tons of enemies. In fb79, Linus and Transient are right next to each other.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Daerys - Sanctuary
    Daerys - Sanctuary Posts: 1,022 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Luring is never not useful. Those people are idiots. It's not always necessary, but there most certainly are some cases where you will not win without it. *cough, Wurlord, cough*

    Maiyas examples are also some of the more notable uses for luring.
  • NecroVaL - Heavens Tear
    NecroVaL - Heavens Tear Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Not really... Depending on mob or boss you are trying to lure... Sometimes its better for a barb to do the luring, than using veno's pet, as some might 1-2 hit killed your pet before your pet reaches the mob...
  • Daerys - Sanctuary
    Daerys - Sanctuary Posts: 1,022 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    NecroVaL - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Not really... Depending on mob or boss you are trying to lure... Sometimes its better for a barb to do the luring, than using veno's pet, as some might 1-2 hit killed your pet before your pet reaches the mob...

    If a barb can pull without grabbing adds then of course a veno doesn't need to lure. Luring =/= pulling.
  • Weng - Heavens Tear
    Weng - Heavens Tear Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If a barb can pull without grabbing adds then of course a veno doesn't need to lure. Luring =/= pulling.

    Like Daerys said, Luring is not the same as pulling. Anyone can pull, but only Venos can lure.

    Luring is the art of bringing out a single mob from a group. Only Veno's pets can do this. Try it with any other class, including archer, and you'll see the whole group coming at you or your party.

    -weng
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    luring is DEFINITELY needed in upper levels, theres a whole section -devoted- to it on important bosses everyone does. (Still waiting on pics for linus and his idiot buddies/Wurlord when i get 79/a 2-2 squad lol.)

    Heres a link: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=234672
    Important veno roles near the bottom, youll be expected to know how to pull, let the tank catch aggro, and not result in a party wipe. :)
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    NecroVaL - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Not really... Depending on mob or boss you are trying to lure... Sometimes its better for a barb to do the luring, than using veno's pet, as some might 1-2 hit killed your pet before your pet reaches the mob...

    ^ totally wrong :|. Ever try pulling with herc only using his def/mdef buffs? it works wonders.
  • Daerys - Sanctuary
    Daerys - Sanctuary Posts: 1,022 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ^ totally wrong :|. Ever try pulling with herc only using his def/mdef buffs? it works wonders.

    QFT. For those that didn't already know, don't ever buff Reflect when you want to lure. It hurts bad.
  • Ilikeboxes - Dreamweaver
    Ilikeboxes - Dreamweaver Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Thank you all for the posts. I am glad that i was right and they were wrong.
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »
    QFT. For those that didn't already know, don't ever buff Reflect when you want to lure. It hurts bad.

    theres no one trolling here. just a little kid with a bad attitude towards someone stating a fact. you can lure easily with the yellow **** without it dying, and theres so many duke shouts daily its hard to see someone without one
  • Daerys - Sanctuary
    Daerys - Sanctuary Posts: 1,022 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    theres no one trolling here. just a little kid with a bad attitude towards someone stating a fact. you can lure easily with the yellow **** without it dying, and theres so many duke shouts daily its hard to see someone without one


    I hope that's not directed at me. QFT = Quoted for truth, nothing to do with trolling.
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Weng - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Like Daerys said, Luring is not the same as pulling. Anyone can pull, but only Venos can lure.

    If you die when you pull a monster, your party can finish off whichever monster you attacked. Everything else will go back right away but your monster will keep waiting for several seconds.

    But of course most people do not like dying and venos can lure without dying.
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I hope that's not directed at me. QFT = Quoted for truth, nothing to do with trolling.

    lol QFT can also = quit f***ing trolling lol.
    not enough people hang out on /b/ :|
  • Kamarile - Dreamweaver
    Kamarile - Dreamweaver Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Well, it seems everyone think that all venos have herc. Not true, I don't have one. So, I want to ask. If you don't put Reflect on herc is it going to get 70% more damage? Also, why not use ranged pet? They could make a hit before getting any aggro.
    b:thanks
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Daerys - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If a barb can pull without grabbing adds then of course a veno doesn't need to lure. Luring =/= pulling.

    Luring with a pet is a form of pulling in which only the mob damaged gets pulled, and not the rest.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If you die when you pull a monster, your party can finish off whichever monster you attacked. Everything else will go back right away but your monster will keep waiting for several seconds.

    But of course most people do not like dying and venos can lure without dying.

    Have you actually tried it? I some time get problem when I lure wurlord in TT 2-1. if your method works, we could send a barb/BM to lure wurlord.
  • XKIAx - Heavens Tear
    XKIAx - Heavens Tear Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    swgs wrote: »
    Have you actually tried it? I some time get problem when I lure wurlord in TT 2-1. if your method works, we could send a barb/BM to lure wurlord.

    Believe me, its much safer for a veno to lure.

    Send pet to attack boss, cast bramble hood, unsummon pet and run towards the barb.

    Bramble hood is a must have. In TT2-2 wurlord does 5k damage to me with no hood, but only 750-1k damage when hood is on.
    If the barb's attack misses, you will probably get attacked at least once. So use hood.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2009
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    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ^ totally wrong :|. Ever try pulling with herc only using his def/mdef buffs? it works wonders.

    Yeah, tried it. Every time Herc gets hit, it wants to turn around and attack. Barbs have more control for pulling. A ranged pet would be better in that occasion as well.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited June 2009
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    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Luring with a pet is a form of pulling in which only the mob damaged gets pulled, and not the rest.

    A little addendum: oftentimes damage doesn't matter if the person doing the luring gets into auto-aggro range. The reason venos can lure one monster at a time without fail is when we unsummon a pet, the monsters not damaged have nothing in aggro range and therefore nothing to attack. Only the monster actually attacked will turn its hate towards the veno (at which point bramble up :O).

    This is opposed to a barb pulling where it steps into the aggro range of several monsters at one time. It only damages one, but still has the attention of the others.
    tweakz wrote: »
    Yeah, tried it. Every time Herc gets hit, it wants to turn around and attack.

    *coughs* Manual mode is such a beautiful thing. :3
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2009
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    Alphae - Lost City wrote: »
    *coughs* Manual mode is such a beautiful thing. :3

    -ouchie! Always learning.. ty!
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited June 2009
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    tweakz wrote: »
    -ouchie! Always learning.. ty!

    No problem, you've caught me a few times ;)

    Manual is mostly the mode I use, because I've gotten so used to clicking pet skills, it would be unnerving if the thing started doing things on its own. In tight situations I put my pet on defend to make sure it takes down everything that is attacking it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited June 2009
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    Alphae - Lost City wrote: »
    A little addendum: oftentimes damage doesn't matter if the person doing the luring gets into auto-aggro range. The reason venos can lure one monster at a time without fail is when we unsummon a pet, the monsters not damaged have nothing in aggro range and therefore nothing to attack. Only the monster actually attacked will turn its hate towards the veno (at which point bramble up :O).

    This is opposed to a barb pulling where it steps into the aggro range of several monsters at one time. It only damages one, but still has the attention of the others.
    I don't think it's quite that simple. Find a loose group of 2 or 3 aggro mobs. Position yourself so one is closer than the others. Tap the w key to inch your way forward a little at a time. When you aggro that closest mob, you should still be outside aggro range of the other mobs. But they will all still attack you.

    I vaguely recall an incident where there were 2 linked mobs at a spawn site. Someone pulled one and started fighting it, so I sent my pet in to fight the 2nd mob. Halfway through my fight, the other person died. The 1st mob went back to its spawn spot. My pet was outside aggro range of the 1st mob, but inside the range where attacking the 2nd mob would've caused the 1st mob to also attack. But the 1st mob did not attack. I was nervous so I stopped firing spells at the 2nd mob (the only reason I remember this). My pet finished off the 2nd mob, ran back to me, and I sent it in to attack the 1st mob.

    I think what's going on is that when a mob is attacked, it puts out an "assist me" call to its neighbors. Any other mob-type programmed to assist that mob-type and in range then joins the attack. But it only puts out this "assist me" call when it's first attacked, and against its initial attacker. So when you unsummon your pet, the mobs who were assisting lose aggro, but the initial mob still has agro to the veno.

    The use of genie skills which only debuff (don't do damage) seems not to cause the mob to make this "assist me" call. So you can use them to pull a single mob out of a group. Same goes for the veno tame skill (yes, you can use it to pull singles too).
  • Chabi - Heavens Tear
    Chabi - Heavens Tear Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    When genies entered the arena venos ability to lure took some hits. Now everyone with a genie and extreme poison can lure. There are more genieskills you can use to pull but i dont know the name of them since i only use extreme poison this days.
    Its alot faster using a genie skill for luring a mob (i hardly ever lure anymore) but and theres a BIG but.
    You cant use genie skill for luring in all situations. So a veno for luring is still in demand. And the reason is "range". A veno can lure from a far longer distance then when using a genie. Try lure Peachblossom Ritualist without having range as you advantage, thats a sure death. And many more bosses that has long range magicdamage cant be pulled safely without a veno using hers pet.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited July 2009
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    What is the best strategy/tatic for luring.I would think an Archer would be better for this.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.

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