Wellspring Quaff Buff---Opinions wanted

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

The Wizard buff wellspring quaff provides us with an MP increase ranging from 15% at lvl 1 to 60% at lvl 10. This buff is considered a little 'meh' amongst wizards as we already have large mana pools and the spark cost to use it could be better used elsewhere.

The following is an examination of other classes buffs,

Aura or the Golden Bell(BM) adds between 15-60% PDef for 30mins(Whole squad)

Beast King's inspiration(Barb) adds between 12-30% HP for 30mins(Whole squad)

Wing's of protection(Archer) adds between 8-35% Evasion for 30mins(Whole squad)

Cleric buffs(Cleric) adds between 15-60% PDef/MDef or between 25-70% MAtk for 30 mins etc.(Squad versions of these skills are available)

So I ask you, whether Wellspring Quaff should be made into a full squad buff, this would help increase the number of players who choose the Wizard class and also make us more viable for squads.

Sorry for posting several threads regarding this, but I would like feedback from other classes and wizards.

Also feel free to vote in the poll

Heartstone - Dreamweaver · June 2009

just tell me.. how usable is it to have little more mana.. lol
ppl use charms anwyays. alot or little mana. just ur mana not run out in 5 secs it doesnt matter <_<

Evasion buff, pdef buff, hp buff etc all help u keep alive. mana buff wouldnt.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

Once again, not everybody can afford charms. 60% is not a little, as I explained to you before a barb with 1000MP before being buffed would have 1600MP after the buff. I might complain that the barb physical attack buff is pointless for me, but it is helpful to others, same with this.

Seablue - Sanctuary · June 2009

I don't really see the point to be honest, unless your squad don't use pots/charms at all. For a bm even with the buff it can only give me a few more aoes before I have to pot again.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary · June 2009

it would save money for MP charm users in the long run, but dont see this happening.
inb4moved2suggestionbox.

Pirodar - Sanctuary · June 2009

Heartstone

It may help clerics and thus indirectly help You

Witchburner

I'm the type who always sees some potential problems everywhere and in this case, I can see one too. 11 lvl of Wellspring Quaff has some nice effects and I can imagine, the fact, that it's a very non flashy skill is a great advantage, people, who use it, really like. I can bet, that if You actually manage to convince the devs to change it, we will get fireworks like those cleric's party buffs and some people will kill you

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

Pirodar - Sanctuary wrote: »

we will get fireworks like those cleric's party buffs and some people will kill you

What does this imply? I hope you mean in-gameb:surrender

do you mean if the devs decide to change it we'll end up with a 10m Seal below us and pyrotechnics flying all over the place?

Also please don't move this to suggestions, I want as much feedback as possible and people rarely post there.

Talshina - Dreamweaver · June 2009

As a Cleric, I would LOVE to have more mana.
The more mana I've got as a Cleric, the more times I can spray healing spells on the Barbarians who seem to THINK they're invincible...

Yeah, I've got a charm. It was given to me by a friend. They're bloody expensive, so I don't WANT it to tick over. The stupid thing fires when I've got 75% of my max mana, so effectively I've only got ONE FOURTH of my mana available to use "safely" without burning up the charm. I HATE the fact I can't remove it.

Although it would mean a tweak to the skill tree, I could see venomancers getting a party-wide version of Bramble Guard after getting it to level 10. Kinda like the party-buffs that clerics get...

Nelae - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Talshina - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a Cleric, I would LOVE to have more mana.
The more mana I've got as a Cleric, the more times I can spray healing spells on the Barbarians who seem to THINK they're invincible...

Yeah, I've got a charm. It was given to me by a friend. They're bloody expensive, so I don't WANT it to tick over. The stupid thing fires when I've got 75% of my max mana, so effectively I've only got ONE FOURTH of my mana available to use "safely" without burning up the charm. I HATE the fact I can't remove it.

So true, if it was 50% like the HP charm, it would make me more happy xD.

@topic:
I like the idea, 60% more MP would be really useful to clerics and even other classes...like in Zhen, 2more aoes are better then 0 aoes ;p

Pirodar - Sanctuary · June 2009

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

do you mean if the devs decide to change it we'll end up with a 10m Seal below us and pyrotechnics flying all over the place?

That was a joke of course, but yes, that's what I would expect looking at their work. Hm, it was a half-joke then

ShoeFury - Sanctuary · June 2009

I'd love to have Quaff as a squad buff... Our only buff which can be cast on others, Frostblade, doesn't do anything but make the hand glow...

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

whenever I squad with Pettra she demands that buff lol

Forp - Heavens Tear · June 2009

at level 10 frostblade adds +30% water damage from weapon. so, theoreticly, you hit 30% more damage which is elemental. that's good for a physical class.

if this skill were made into a party buff they would have to remove the fury cost, and i just don't see them changing that because you learn it at 29. all level 29 skills = 1 fury.

truekossy · June 2009

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

at level 10 frostblade adds +30% water damage from weapon. so, theoreticly, you hit 30% more damage which is elemental. that's good for a physical class.

if this skill were made into a party buff they would have to remove the fury cost, and i just don't see them changing that because you learn it at 29. all level 29 skills = 1 fury.

I don't see the need to remove the cost. Assuming it's a party buff in the same manner as a BM's Aura it could stay easily.

If it were made more like Veno's bramble, on the other hand, then yes it would have to be removed or the skill would no longer be that viable for buffing others.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

Frostblade doesn't cost a spark, if anything they'd add a spark to that as a squad buff. I don't mind if they keep the spark as a party buff for Quaff, currently though the spark cost doesn't make much sense(Except the Sage effect that makes it act like a spark erupt.)

Heartstone - Dreamweaver · June 2009

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Once again, not everybody can afford charms. 60% is not a little, as I explained to you before a barb with 1000MP before being buffed would have 1600MP after the buff. I might complain that the barb physical attack buff is pointless for me, but it is helpful to others, same with this.

im away alot. so reply late..

however if u go around 80+ without a charm. then i laugh at you. its cheaper than pots b:chuckle
if ur going around using pots and say charm is too expensive. then are you **** yourself :P

Edit: hmm saw cleric saying, ya would like more mana so it not tick so muhc.. but when it tick its just ticking for more MP each tick. so will give same loss in the end? or am i wrong =x.

truekossy · June 2009

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

im away alot. so reply late..

however if u go around 80+ without a charm. then i laugh at you. its cheaper than pots b:chuckle
if ur going around using pots and say charm is too expensive. then are you **** yourself :P

Edit: hmm saw cleric saying, ya would like more mana so it not tick so muhc.. but when it tick its just ticking for more MP each tick. so will give same loss in the end? or am i wrong =x.

1: Saying a charm is cheaper than pots assumes that the person in question actually buys pots. Regular pots drop easy from monsters/lucky packs and apo pots only require some time spent farming the plants.

2: Not quite the same loss. Skills that consume a relatively heavy amount of MP would no longer auto-tick the charm, which means between any regen buffs or pots (assuming you didn't buy them, of course) the charm will tick less often. So while it would tick for a greater amount when it happens, the fact that you'd be squeezing in a bit of extra regen to slow down the process means you get more out of the charm in the long run.

Alyyy - Sanctuary · June 2009

i would absolutely LOWE wizards if they would be able to cast that buff on the whole squadb:sin

Solandri - Heavens Tear · June 2009

Talshina - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a Cleric, I would LOVE to have more mana.
The more mana I've got as a Cleric, the more times I can spray healing spells on the Barbarians who seem to THINK they're invincible...

Yeah, I've got a charm. It was given to me by a friend. They're bloody expensive, so I don't WANT it to tick over. The stupid thing fires when I've got 75% of my max mana, so effectively I've only got ONE FOURTH of my mana available to use "safely" without burning up the charm. I HATE the fact I can't remove it.

It doesn't give you more mana. It only increases your max mana. Your mana regeneration rate is still the same, so there's no change in the number of healing spells you can spam in a given amount of time (taking into account downtime). Any advantage it offers you has a corresponding disadvantage. It lets you cast 60% more spells before you hit 75% and your charm would tick, but then you have to wait 60% longer for that mana to regenerate. Or if you charm does tick, it will eat up 60% more of the charm than it would without the buff.

The only way to get a pure benefit from this buff is if you have a skill which replenishes a fixed % of your mana bar. I know venos have a skill that does this. That skill would replenish 60% more at no additional cost.

truekossy · June 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It doesn't give you more mana. It only increases your max mana. Your mana regeneration rate is still the same, so there's no change in the number of healing spells you can spam in a given amount of time (taking into account downtime). Any advantage it offers you has a corresponding disadvantage. It lets you cast 60% more spells before you hit 75% and your charm would tick, but then you have to wait 60% longer for that mana to regenerate. Or if you charm does tick, it will eat up 60% more of the charm than it would without the buff.

The only way to get a pure benefit from this buff is if you have a skill which replenishes a fixed % of your mana bar. I know venos have a skill that does this. That skill would replenish 60% more at no additional cost.

The main complaint with charms ticking at 75%, however, is that they do it so fast your MP recovery has no chance to be used. This is even more obvious with skills that, when used, drain more than 25% of the caster's MP.

Assuming I had 1k MP and a skill cost me 300 MP to use, Getting to 1.6k MP from the buff would mean that I'd be able to use said skill without my charm ticking immediately each time. Then I'd be able to use things like powders or potions to supplement that and keep my charm from ticking for a longer duration of time. Same can be said of a cleric using full squad buffs. Normally, doing so would mean the charm ticks immediately. However as long as this buff got them to above 13.2k MP, they'd still have a chance to use pots, move around and regen MP, etc.

Also, being able to cast that 60% more spells before the charm ticks means you'll most likely waste less of the charm for something such as a boss fight where you may often find your charm ticks without need (IE: when the boss is near death and the charm tick simply restores MP you'd barely use)

For continuous AoEs, you're right in that it has no true affect (aside from giving you more leeway to increase skill level so you don't have to worry about using too much MP for the charm to cover and having your skill be canceled from that) but for other cases, including regular grinding, a 60% boost to MP for half an hour without skills also having an increased cost will let that charm's performance be a lot more useful than just to try and make itself vanish as quickly as possible.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear · June 2009

hey, i never noticed this before-how come venos dont have a buff that we can cast on a squad?? we can cast bramble on each member, but only one at a time...why?b:sad is it yet another way to nerf us?

but i am so glad for the help that the other players buffs have given me-they can be life savers!

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

The Wizard buff wellspring quaff provides us with an MP increase ranging from 15% at lvl 1 to 60% at lvl 10. This buff is considered a little 'meh' amongst wizards as we already have large mana pools and the spark cost to use it could be better used elsewhere.

The following is an examination of other classes buffs,

Aura or the Golden Bell(BM) adds between 15-60% PDef for 30mins(Whole squad)

Beast King's inspiration(Barb) adds between 12-30% HP for 30mins(Whole squad)

Wing's of protection(Archer) adds between 8-35% Evasion for 30mins(Whole squad)

Cleric buffs(Cleric) adds between 15-60% PDef/MDef or between 25-70% MAtk for 30 mins etc.(Squad versions of these skills are available)

So I ask you, whether Wellspring Quaff should be made into a full squad buff, this would help increase the number of players who choose the Wizard class and also make us more viable for squads.

Sorry for posting several threads regarding this, but I would like feedback from other classes and wizards.

Also feel free to vote in the poll

Esteban - Harshlands · June 2009

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

just tell me.. how usable is it to have little more mana.. lol
ppl use charms anwyays. alot or little mana. just ur mana not run out in 5 secs it doesnt matter <_<

Evasion buff, pdef buff, hp buff etc all help u keep alive. mana buff wouldnt.

Look at it from this point of view.. More mp= more dmg with perdition b:laugh

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

hey, i never noticed this before-how come venos dont have a buff that we can cast on a squad?? we can cast bramble on each member, but only one at a time...why?b:sad is it yet another way to nerf us?

but i am so glad for the help that the other players buffs have given me-they can be life savers!

Thats the reason I included the yes as long as veno's get a squad buff option. I'm all for at least 1 squad buff per class.

My personal favourite buff is the cleric MAtk buff.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · June 2009

off-topic

wizards complain the skill emberstorm leeches their HP immensely and the final dmg is not a trade off. what if emberstorm would leech HP from an entire squad? the HP drain would still be annoying but the final damage would make it worth using.

what about a change to frostblade? it's a bit weird to have a buff that's useless to our own class but we can live with it. the problem is that the damage gain is very poor even at lvl10. even then only archers notice any gain while it lasts only 15 minutes. cleric buffs are far superior... we've got only 1 "friend maker" skill so it's supposed to be powerful. it could also increase the chi gain per hit which is something clerics can't do or maybe adding a chance to leech MP from the target.

erethizon1 · June 2009

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It doesn't give you more mana. It only increases your max mana. Your mana regeneration rate is still the same, so there's no change in the number of healing spells you can spam in a given amount of time (taking into account downtime). Any advantage it offers you has a corresponding disadvantage. It lets you cast 60% more spells before you hit 75% and your charm would tick, but then you have to wait 60% longer for that mana to regenerate. Or if you charm does tick, it will eat up 60% more of the charm than it would without the buff.

The only way to get a pure benefit from this buff is if you have a skill which replenishes a fixed % of your mana bar. I know venos have a skill that does this. That skill would replenish 60% more at no additional cost.

The biggest benefit I can see is for boss fights with players that do not use charms or potions. Many boss fights (especially for clerics) can be done without any potions or charms as long as their mana pool is large enough (mainly because healing and buffing does not throw us into attack mode so our mp regen rate stays at 100%). A 60% larger mana pool means a battle can last 60% longer before we run out of mana. That is pretty nice.

While charms are pretty common, especially at higher levels, not everyone uses them and it is nice to have skills that benefit non-charm users. The cleric skill that gives a maximum of +10 hp/mp per tick is as example of a skill that is mainly for people that do not use charms. Seeing as how this wizard skill already exists, it sounds like a good idea to make it a party buff.

Isala - Sanctuary · June 2009

There is one thing every single person here has not actually realized. Sage Quaff, I believe, gives 100% extra Magic Attack for the duration of the buff, and that is something I think EVERYONE would be happy for.

Also... As for Veno buffs? I'm happy casting on a person at a time, but what I'd really love is the ability to use my self healing spells, and/or Bramble Hood on someone...

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

The sage buff lasts 15 seconds, it makes the skill a bit like a spark eruption.(Ecatombs description is a misprint/bad wording).

getmeoutofhere · June 2009

ok since your only lvl 76 i understand, but listen the more mp a wizard has at lvl 100 the more the lvl 100 wizard skill hits hence that 60% more mp is a must have if u will use your lvl 100 killer skill... yea u can learn a new skill at lvl 100 research it you'll prob like it.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · June 2009

I'm level 76, not level 20.

You seem to be unable to understand skill descriptions, Manifest Virtue is basically a regular spark erupt based on many calculations on the wizard forums, with full MP sharding and maxed Quaff it can increase MAtk by 350% but it also wastes a spark. Elemental Invocation is our good lvl100 skill, but that has very little to do with our mp gauge.

Quilue - Sanctuary · June 2009

i'd just like it to fill the mana bar after cast instead of just raising the max mana, squad or not. also, reduced mana regen in combat is lame

Kamikiri - Lost City · June 2009

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

just tell me.. how usable is it to have little more mana.. lol
ppl use charms anwyays. alot or little mana. just ur mana not run out in 5 secs it doesnt matter <_<

Evasion buff, pdef buff, hp buff etc all help u keep alive. mana buff wouldnt.

Perdition/Armagedon uses hp and mp

more mp = kinda helpful, kinda.. maybe...

Wellspring Quaff Buff---Opinions wanted

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