Sage vs Demon for Barbarians?

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear · May 2009

::Intro::

Also known as Heaven/Hell or Holy/Evil.
You get to choose which path you can take once you're lvl89. You also get to upgrade your lvl10 skills to lvl11 with a Sage/Demon boost. In addition, you get to have a fairy fly around you. Having lvl11 skills is awesome but the catch is finding the appropriate skill book for it and then paying spirit and coins. The cost ranges from 1mil to 2mil!

I've got most of the info from ecatomb. I'm listing the improvement from the lvl11 skill to the Sage/Demon. Both Sage and Demon have the same lvl11 skill but the boosts are either Sage or Demon depending on your path. In other words, the differences between Sage and Demon would be on the second and third line of the skill.

::Fairies::
You get a fairy that flies around and they evolve twice.
You first get it at lvl89. It changes when lvl99. And a final time at lvl109.
Click the link for the pictures to the fairies.
Pictures
Bigger Pics

::Sage vs Demon::
First off, there is no 'better' path to take. Others may tell you otherwise but Sage/Demon path depends on your own play style (and the fairy looks for some).
Sage in general is more for the PvE'ers. People who like defending, survivability, stability, and endurance.
Notable Sage skill bonuses are: mp regen, more hp for using Blood Bath, more dmg (+35%), +50chi every 1min, no charm tick for using Peredition, more hp in tiger, longer buffs, more pdef in tiger (+40%).
Demon in general is more for the PvP'ers. People who like attacking, high spike damage, criticals, and big numbers.
Notable Demon skill bonuses are: hp regen, 50% more chi per hit, more acc, more crits (+37% in human), no dmg penalty in tiger.

Arguments for Sage:

Tiger is for tanking, most damage skills are in Human form. Might as well get more hp/pdef
Mastery+Titans gives more stable damage boost than Demon
Extra hp/pdef would help loads in TW

Arguments for Demon:

Crits Crits Crits!
10% hp and more pdef is irrelevant lvl100+ with godly equips

The level when you can buy/use the skill may also affect your choice.

Another factor in choosing which path is the availability of the books and/or their costs. You can check out pwdatabase to check out monster drop rates by typing in skill names.

However, most would suggest Sage for being able to tank some bosses with the increased hp and pdef. And Mastery+Titans negates 35% of the 50% damage penalty while in tiger form.

::Skills::

.:Buffs/Misc:.

Feral Regeneration (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: Regen 25hp per second
Sage: Regen 10mp per second
Demon: Regen 10hp per second

Beast King's Inspiration (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +35% max hp
Sage: 1hr duration
Demon: +50% more chi per hit

Blood Bath (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: -15%hp, +225%acc
Sage: -5%hp (total = -10%)
Demon: +75%acc (total = +300%)

Strength of the Titans (lvl99, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +40% dmg
Sage: +10%dmg
Demon: +5%crit for 1min

Axe/Hammer Mastery (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +75%dmg
Sage: +25%dmg
Demon: +2%crit

Beastial Rage (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +6chi for 15secs
Sage: +5secs
Demon: +2chi

Spark Eruption (lvl89, free)
Sage: recover 20%hp, +500%dmg, 25%dmg reduced for 15secs, 3sec invinibility
Demon: recover 20%hp, +500%dmg, +25%atk spd for 15secs, 3sec invinibility

One of the following skill is acquired for free after completing spiritual cultivation.
Sage Master Li's technique: gives 50 chi instantly. Cooldown: 60 secs[/COLOR]
Demon Mo Zun's Taunt: takes away 50chi from target (you don't get extra chi). Cooldown: 30 secs

.:Human Skills:.

Stomp of the Beast King (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 1920dmg
Sage: 25% to recover 20chi
Demon: cooldown +3secs, but wont miss

Garrotte (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: bleed 3897dmg over 15secs
Sage: +15% bleed dmg
Demon: -3secs from bleed time (faster dmg)

Swell (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 1785dmg
Sage: range +50%
Demon: -2sec cooldown (from 8s to 6s)

Mighty Swing (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 2227dmg, 50% to stun
Sage: -1sec cooldown (from 6s to 5s)
Demon: +10% stun

Penetrate Armor (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 3129dmg, -35% target pdef for 10sec
Sage: -10%more pdef (45% total)
Demon: -10chi (from 30chi to 20chi)

Firestorm (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 4336fire dmg
Sage: +1500fire dmg
Demon: 25% to not use spark

Slam (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 3373dmg
Sage: -2sec cooldown (from 8s to 6s)
Demon: +18chi

Beastial Onslaught (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 3600dmg
Sage: +0.7channel and never miss (0.4s to 1.1s)
Demon: +35% crit for 6sec

Peredition/Armageddeon (lvl99, 2mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 5000dmg
Sage: -15% hp/mp cost (from 50% to 35%)
Demon: +10% total dmg

.:Tiger Skills:.

Shapeshifting Intensity (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +80%pdef
Sage: +40%pdef
Demon: +2%crit

True Form (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +30%hp, +60%spd, -50%dmg
Sage: +10%hp
Demon: removes the -50%dmg

Flesh Ream (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 3974 bleed over 15sec
Sage: -5chi (from 20chi to 15chi)
Demon: -0.5sec cooldown (from 3.0s to 2.5s)

Alacrity of the Beast (lvl89, 1mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 1894dmg
Sage: +800dmg
Demon: -1sec cooldown (from 8s to 7s)

Surf Impact (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: -50% target spd for 8sec
Sage: -15%spd (-65%spd total)
Demon: 25%chance to freeze target for 4secs

Roar/Talk is Cheap (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: "Higher level results in a more powerful effect."
Sage: -30% target's matk for 10secs
Demon: reflect 100% physical dmg for 10secs

Frighten (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: ---
Sage: 33% freeze for 3secs
Demon: 20% stun for 3secs

Poison Fang (lvl92, 1.5mil sp/coins)
lvl11: +40% wood dmg
Sage: +15min duration (30min total)
Demon: +10% wood dmg (50% total)

Sunder (lvl99, 2mil sp/coins)
lvl11: 9245dmg
Sage: recovers 6666hp
Demon: recovers 4000hp, 100%crit for 5secs

::Notes::
-Sage Peredition will still do the same damage as if you did use 50% hp/mp
-There are NO automatic passive bonuses depending on your path. (eg Sage dont passively get more hp and defence. Demon dont passively get more dmg and crits.)
-Go to ecatomb for skills
-Go to pwdatabase for monster drop rates
-I dont how Psn Fang really works.
-Grr...cant put pretty pictures in post. Someone disabled IMG tags...
-copied xjej's idea from HEREb:surrender
-copied Damewort's format from HEREb:surrender

Reevoive - Lost City · May 2009

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sage Peredition will still do the same damage as if you did use 50% hp/mp

WRONG
it still goes by how much hp and mp is spent
the special thing about sage is that it costs less so its safer to use.

Minouft - Lost City · May 2009

Reevoive - Lost City wrote: »

WRONG
it still goes by how much hp and mp is spent
the special thing about sage is that it costs less so its safer to use.

Before posting such thing i advice you to be sure of what you saying.
It does half your hp/mp in damage its not reduced.

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear · May 2009

About Psn Fang, I still dunno how exactly it works.
1- Does it convert a % of the damage output into wood?
or
2- Increases the damage by % as wood damage and doesnt show up on stat window?

According to the skill description, it would suggest #2. But skill description can be misleading depending on interpretation. (eg Sage Peredition, Genie's Healing and Blood Clot, etc)

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · May 2009

It converts a % of your weapon damage into wood damage and yes it doesn't show up in your character stats.

[EDIT] sorry Chappy, on rereading your post I understand your question better. Yes it adds a extra % of your weapon damage as wood damage. Your overall damage is increased. [/EDIT]

Contrary to popular belief, I now believe it works in both humanoid and tiger form.

Btw, whats the deal with the genie's heal? I haven't got that one yet.

Garlix - Lost City · May 2009

Yeah sage barb is better and safer the demon one is critical it is about your luck xD but sage is safer and the important thing is that you stay alive that is the first rule for barb and you will much easyer stay alive being sage than demon.

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Skill descriptions arent correct yet as seen HERE.

So if Psn Fang is #1, then Sage Psn Fang is better than Demon version.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Sorry Chappy, think I didn't answer your question correctly. Post edited ^_^

And Demon poison fang does more damage than sage.

Arravis - Lost City · May 2009

Imo, Demon is definitely better than Sage at 89. You get a skill that never misses (making that two no-miss skills, with Mighty Swing) and full damage in tiger form, which is better for PVP AND grinding.

Due keep in mind, that all the skills other than Stomp of the Beast King, Garotte, and True Form are VERY VERY hard to obtain, as they only drop from the last boss in fb99.

This being said, I had a long talk with an experienced PW player the other day. For him, the Demon barbarians is a lot more fun PVP-wise and allows for further usage of the tiger form than just tanking, and is much better earlier in the game.

However, he also stated this: "If a werebeast could ever obtain every skill book...Hell couldn't even compare to the power of Heaven."

Bolinhas - Lost City · May 2009

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

However, he also stated this: "If a werebeast could ever obtain every skill book...Hell couldn't even compare to the power of Heaven."

Interesting quote.... I'll keep that in mind ^^

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Hell > heaven. heaven is for carebears

5 seconds of straight crits is win.

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

However, he also stated this: "If a werebeast could ever obtain every skill book...Hell couldn't even compare to the power of Heaven."

Agree 100%. While demon gives you some crazy crits, sage gives much more steadier damage increase, with loads more survivability.

But as you say, getting the skills is the problem.

Demon true form pwns sage true form I'll grant that and since its soooo much easier to get than say the shape shifting intensify, I think we will be seeing a lot of demon barbs.

But I'll still go sage, you know, care bear and all.

Starang - Lost City · May 2009

Arravis - Lost City wrote: »

Due keep in mind, that all the skills other than Stomp of the Beast King, Garotte, and True Form are VERY VERY hard to obtain, as they only drop from the last boss in fb99.

You can get lv99 skill books from cube. Finish cube at lv90+ and you will get a page of fate, collect 30 of these and you can craft a random 99 skill book. I myself got Heaven Titans Strength as the first 99 book from cube and its gonna be so good ^^. You can get old book pages with cube credits or you can get them from Godless Valley from Boss drops. Collect 20 old book pages and you can craft a lv92+ skill book.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear · May 2009

sage gives some more steady damage, but crit rate you get from demon is too much to pass up. decreased cooldowns, and 10% increase on stun also. demon ftw and you cant forgot 300% accuracy with BB

Hazardus - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Starang - Lost City wrote: »

You can get old book pages with cube credits or you can get them from Godless Valley from Boss drops. Collect 20 old book pages and you can craft a lv92+ skill book.

About those pages from cube. Do you automatically get some when you finish cube? And if so, how many per run? (please don't be one b:chuckle).

Dreadmaul - Heavens Tear · May 2009

0.o this thread made me change my mind.... imma go demon!!!

Bolinhas - Lost City · May 2009

Dreadmaul - Heavens Tear wrote: »

0.o this thread made me change my mind.... imma go demon!!!

it's called Sunder --> Tree of Protection --> Spark Pot --> Perdition

b:dirtyb:dirtyb:dirty

for those of you confused about this, let me clarify it for you:
Demon Sunder: 5s crit
Tree of Protection (genie skill): +35 % HP (at my level)
**you have one spark**
Spark Pot
Perdition with crit and +10 % more damage as you are in hell... or they are... oh well

---

I'm still going Heavens b:victory, since the 5s cooldown time for stun is funny...

Starang - Lost City · May 2009

Hazardus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

About those pages from cube. Do you automatically get some when you finish cube? And if so, how many per run? (please don't be one b:chuckle).

You will get one page,exp and some old HT crafting mats when you finish cube.

Arravis - Lost City · May 2009

Starang - Lost City wrote: »

You can get lv99 skill books from cube. Finish cube at lv90+ and you will get a page of fate, collect 30 of these and you can craft a random 99 skill book.

Forgot to mention this, but yes, tis true, although I'd say getting to 99 first would be somewhat harder than actually getting the 99 skill books b:surrender

You can get old book pages with cube credits or you can get them from Godless Valley from Boss drops. Collect 20 old book pages and you can craft a lv92+ skill book.

Still not used to this Goddess Valley, as it was introduced somewhat late in MY-EN b:beatup Thanks b:thanks

Beraun - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Pwdatabase shows that the Axe and Hammer Mastery skill can be crafted with Axe and Hammer Mastery pages. Does anyone know where you can obtain these or if they are even implemented in this version of the game?

Vorgen - Sanctuary · May 2009

My Barb is a hybrid with a hell of alot of hp nearly 8k just standing with buff. Not bad. But i have alot of attack power as well and i like the idea of crits i play a very aggressive style so i would think this route would be better for me.b:victory

But do i think sage barbs are weak. No hell no. They are sage because they are willing to go that extra mile to keep everyone alive. Not to mention they are hella hard to kill

Kamikiri - Lost City · May 2009

Vorgen - Sanctuary wrote: »

My Barb is a hybrid with a hell of alot of hp nearly 8k just standing with buff. Not bad. But i have alot of attack power as well and i like the idea of crits i play a very aggressive style so i would think this route would be better for me.b:victory

But do i think sage barbs are weak. No hell no. They are sage because they are willing to go that extra mile to keep everyone alive. Not to mention they are hella hard to kill

Demon hands down is best for pvp. However sage barbs are far from weak, Have these skill books and you'll be doing smooth consistant damage in pvp:
Strength of Titans, Axe and Hammer mastery, Beastial Onslaught, Might swing, Penetrait armor. A note however, diffrent situations call for diffrent things, thus demon barbs are capable of being great tanks, and sage barbs are capable of being good in pvp.

Bolinhas - Lost City · May 2009

it all depends on the skills of the player imo

_BioHazarD_ - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Ok, here is what i think.
At 89 lvl the skills are a bit better for sage . U get range in swell, extra dmg in alacrity , 1hr buff for hp instead 30mins, mp rec b:dirty and 10% hp +40% deff. Demons get only 2% crit and full att in tiger form . So if u wanna see the point of the demon u need to go to lvl 92 when u get Beastial Onslaught (35% crit for 6 sec) .I think thats the most important skills for demons, and i am sure its super rare and expensive .Without this skill theres no point to going for demon at all . At 92 the demons skills are pretty much better but its a waste not having beastial.And i dont think i need to coment 99 lvl skills , yes they are gr8 but almost none of us will get there. So probably my choise will be sage bcoz Demon beastial onslaught's price will be one of the highest from all skills and i have to wait till 92.

Marok - Heavens Tear · May 2009

well _BioHazarD_, thats nearly exactly what i think, too ^^

iam a tank for my life and i like this nice red HP-bar which shows me a very big number ^^

and to get even more HP in tigermode makes me crazy ^^

after all i look forward lvl 86 with Perdition/ Armageddon lvl 10 --> will be great fun b:laugh

Dreadmaul - Heavens Tear · May 2009

i shud probably go demon if i wanna start pking rite?

Umeru - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Heaven > Hell barbs imo, sages are the ultimate tank, b:chuckle
Also it depends on the player, which is a fact. Yes I am a "carebear" barb that is tank built and loving it b:pleased, on top of that fleash realm, alacarty of the beast (looks like an argo skill o.O I took argo from someone when i was in squad i think) and roar (I never gotte yet) are the best skills to argo. some demon skills look nice (DMG penalty removed on true form for demon >.> i'd go for demon just for that skill since I solo 99% of the time but i got humanoid skills)... So sage is suitable for me b:chuckle

riddiculus · June 2009

what about PVE server ---> sage and for those PVP servers ---> demon?

poverty · August 2009

necro, necro, necro. . . .

andracil · August 2009

... Closed.

Sage vs Demon for Barbarians?

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