Is Undine Strike REeeeeeeeeaaaaaallly worth 7 freaking million?

damani
damani Posts: 105 Arc User
edited May 2009 in Wizard
Just wondering, I can do a ****load with that money instead, is it really worth it?
Post edited by damani on
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Comments

  • Chocooo - Lost City
    Chocooo - Lost City Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Without undine, a mage isn't a mage.
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    *blinks* D...did you really just ask if a Wizard should get Undine Strike or not...?

    O.o

    ...yes, they should. Undine is worth any amount of Gold/Spirit needed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    who doesn't want a big yellow flash that does unimaginable horror to the one being flashed?
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    damani wrote: »
    Just wondering, I can do a ****load with that money instead, is it really worth it?
    uhm...what part in reducing the targets mag res with 60% is not clear?
    ____________
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  • Astoru - Heavens Tear
    Astoru - Heavens Tear Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Undine strike + Dragon strike = **** on any HA build.
    ●Wizard (Male) - Fasditious and pretentious, carries the arrogance of intellectual superiority. Feels the need to remind everyone of his world-ending power, but grows a little manic and unhinged when he finally is allowed to unleash it. "Ahh-hahahahaha!! NOW YOU ALL BURN!!!!"
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  • Dalamaar - Heavens Tear
    Dalamaar - Heavens Tear Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    one word.. yes
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Extreme Poison + Undine Strike + Dragon Strike = b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Chocooo - Lost City
    Chocooo - Lost City Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Extreme Poison + Undine Strike + Dragon Strike = b:shocked

    Undine Strike + Extreme Poison + Frenzy + Dragon Strike = b:shockedx2!
  • Forp - Heavens Tear
    Forp - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,445 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    oh this is a fun game.

    undine strike + extreme poison + elemental seal + amplify damage + heaven's flame + ...

    well. you could probably wand a barb to death with that combo.
  • Chocooo - Lost City
    Chocooo - Lost City Posts: 238 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Scary part is, besides your combo Forp, the above ones are very possible to do with a mage alone :p
  • damani
    damani Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    What's dragon strike, black ice dragon strike?

    I didnt know people even used that when blade tempest looks so juicy, school me
  • Astoru - Heavens Tear
    Astoru - Heavens Tear Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Blade tempest = Death of squishies.
    Dragon strike = Death of Heavy armor
    ●Wizard (Male) - Fasditious and pretentious, carries the arrogance of intellectual superiority. Feels the need to remind everyone of his world-ending power, but grows a little manic and unhinged when he finally is allowed to unleash it. "Ahh-hahahahaha!! NOW YOU ALL BURN!!!!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    In duels, all I need is Force of Will, Distance Shrink back (if needed), Extreme Poison, Sutra, D. Pyrogram, Glacial Snare. Usually done by then...if needed, I still have Sandstorm and another D. Pyrogram I can use during Sutra Time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • damani
    damani Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Extreme poison the genie skill?

    Also I need to lvl my D. Pyro so my Sutra isn't worthless :)
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    damani wrote: »
    Extreme poison the genie skill?

    Also I need to lvl my D. Pyro so my Sutra isn't worthless :)

    Oh, yes... b:sin ...I have it maxed out as well, so it's 20% extra damage for 10 seconds...more than enough for Sutra. Also, my D. Pyro and Sandstorm are maxed out...working on Glacial at the moment. :P

    ...actually, strike that. I'm working on getting UNDINE...then Glacial.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • fluwerbas
    fluwerbas Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    It is worth it and even more, specially for PvP.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    i'm sure I'm going to be getting this skill, but a cleric guildie recently told me that he tested it with a friend and his resists barely went down at all :O He was saying the extra damage was not very noticable, but it's good... just not as good as all the hype. I talked to another friend that says it is super amazing making you do 60% more damage..

    My understanding was that it did a significant amount more damage but not 60%. Just curious if anyone has any numbers with it :)
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
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  • Ty - Heavens Tear
    Ty - Heavens Tear Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    60% defense reduction sounds good on paper but in reality its not that much, not even close. PvE wise it adds maybe 15-20% damage.

    With the advent of genies it means you can delay or skip undine if you'd rather have the cash. Choosing extreme poison and/or Frenzy has similar if not better results and for a fraction of the cost.

    Prices should go down for Apo pages, I've seen 275k WC in HT. I paid 400k for a few of mine a few months ago.
    I like pie
  • damani
    damani Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Lol I couldn't even sell my pages for 250k yesterday.

    The 60% reduction in defense will definitely not make you do 60% more damage, 15-20% does sound more reasonable.

    Still on the fence here, 7 million will buy a ****load of CS.....
  • King_Solomon - Heavens Tear
    King_Solomon - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Ty - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Prices should go down for Apo pages, I've seen 275k WC in HT. I paid 400k for a few of mine a few months ago.
    bought for 220-250k earlier. ink could be cheaper also...
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    If you're willing to join another online game do NOT join any hosted by K2 NETWORK. Want to know why? Check BBB complaints.
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    ok, about the Undine: the 60% reduction will not increase your dmg output by 60%.
    To see the exact amount of dmg you do, get off some gear from your char to have a 60% reduction in mdef and see what is the damage reduction percentage.
    I'm not in game to do the tests, but I can give u a short example (numbers are out of the blue, don't take them for good):
    Before Undine:
    - 5000 mdef - 65% reduction (hover the mouse over the numbers in the stats window to get the percentage reduction)
    After undine:
    - 3000 mdef - 44% reduction.
    Here is your ~25% in damage. Undine does exactly what it says it does, we just jump over the conclusion and don't pay attention to details.

    The reduction % doens't increase/decrease on par with the mdef increase/decrease.
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    It's the combination of Undine and Ex Poison which is great, rather than both individually. 6-7k sandstorm crits unbuffed on Heavy Armor users = lol. And that's with my LA build and +2 weapon, the potential is much higher.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • damani
    damani Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    It's the combination of Undine and Ex Poison which is great, rather than both individually. 6-7k sandstorm crits unbuffed on Heavy Armor users = lol. And that's with my LA build and +2 weapon, the potential is much higher.

    Well I'll probably get it just to combine with Extreme Poison, that will be good for TW's.

    For the record, 7k is nothing to a barb with 14000HP....it MAY tick his charm, and unless you have a whole squad wailing on him as well you still have no chance to kill him.

    But I just ran a wined 89 with some people, took two hours and I didn't get a single page out of it, so I'm back in the "it can wait" boat.

    Thanks for all the replies though.
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Just a little advice, don't focus on getting a skill the minute it becomes available. When I turned 79, I was so excited about getting Undine, and I was a little upset when I found out the cost.

    But now that I've had some time to think about it, I don't really need it right here, right now. I mean, I know a few 90 wizards who haven't gotten any of their 79 skills yet, and they fare just fine (especially since the Genies; I think EVERY mage should get and max out Extreme Poison). ^_^

    So don't worry about it. Remember, the destination my be awesome, but the trip there can be equally as awesome-sauce.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    - 5000 mdef - 65% reduction (hover the mouse over the numbers in the stats window to get the percentage reduction)
    After undine:
    - 3000 mdef - 44% reduction.

    He he. Your example leads to a bit confusing results. I believe there is a mistake with the mdef after undine. If it was 5000 before, the reduction by 60% means it would be 2000 after. But It's not important. The reductions are out of the blue anyway.

    Now Let's assume your raw damage is x. Before undine the target gets
    x - 65%x = 35%x.
    After undine the target gets x - 44%x = 56%x

    And from the casters perspective the increease in the damage is

    (56%x - 35%x) / 35%x = 0.6. Exactly 60% :)

    I don't know if the formula is correct but I've found it in some thread in the forums. According to it the reduction is

    mdef / (mdef + 40*level)

    and it's not said explicitly, but I believe the level is the attacker's level. But let's assume The levels of both attacker and the target are equal, the formula is correct and mdef is (40 * level) which gives exactly 50% reduction. After undine the new reduction is

    0.4mdef / (1.4 mdef) = 28.6%

    And the damage increase form the caster's perspective is

    (71.4%x - 50%x) / 50%x = 42.8%
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/Legault_/2009-05-2022-41-01.jpg
    Killed a higher level barb by bypassing his hiero

    http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee231/Legault_/2009-05-1821-56-18.jpg
    Annnd just some random gank outside of 1k streams where my damage was nice


    ^why I like undine+amp.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • missqq
    missqq Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    CQ barb with 6k HP?
  • Pirodar - Sanctuary
    Pirodar - Sanctuary Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Hm

    I played a bit with those formulas and if they are correct the damage increase calculated as I described before can grow pretty high. The higher the reduction from mdef the higher the damage increase from undine. (I'm talking about the damage increase relative to the damage before undine). At 83.3% reduction the damage increase should be almost 100%. Could someone test it?
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    missqq wrote: »
    CQ barb with 6k HP?
    No, I got him to like 70% HP before that.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Uncanny - Lost City
    Uncanny - Lost City Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    eruption fist + extreme poison + undine strike + sandstorm = profit.

    with a genie wizards can actually one shot some peeps b:pleased

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