Genie Leveling Experience Calcuations

esotericsoul · May 2009

How much penalty does a higher level player experience when leveling up a new Genie?

I understand that the genie levels are based on 40% of the player experience. But I assume that means if you level your genie at the same level as your character. Hence as seen on other posts:

Level 1: 55 player exp, 22 genie exp (40% of 55 = 22)
Level 2: 220 player exp, 88 genie exp (40% of 220 = 88)
Etc.

But has anyone figured out what the calculated penalties are for leveling a genie lower than your character? And are there different penalties or experience conversions depending on if you level you genie through cubes, experience transfer, or spirit transfer?

More to the point, another way to ask this is:

For a genie 10 levels below your character level:

1. there is a ??? percent penalty for exp transfer
2. there is a ??? percent penalty for spirit transfer
3. there is a ??? percent penalty for using the cube

For a genie 20 levels below your character level ?
For a genie 30 levels below your character level ?
etc., etc.

If this known, we can determine if it would be more efficient to create a new character to train a genie than to feed the points from your higher level character. For example, if you are at level 60, would it be more effective to make an alternate character to bring a genie up to, say, level 20, or level 30 (there must a break even point), and then transfer it to your level 60 player?

Some one out there must be working on a little app that we can plug these numbers into...

aazadan · May 2009

Genie level/player level. Minimum of 10%. Multiply the result by 5 in the case of spirit.

esotericsoul · May 2009

aazadan wrote: »

Genie level/player level. Minimum of 10%. Multiply the result by 5 in the case of spirit.

Ok, I am not a math person, but let me see if I understand. So a level 60 player has a genie at level 19 and wants to get it to level 20:

Player experience for level 20 is 25,000 exp, so a genie would need 10,000 exp:
(40% of 25,000 is 10,000)

But since the player is level 60, there would be a penalty 31.6% penalty for transferring experience:
(genie lvl / player lvl = 19 /60 = 31.6%)

So you would need to infuse 13,160 of the player experience to level the genie:
(10,000 + (31.6% of 10,000) = 10,000 + 3,160 = 13,160)

But in the case of spirit, you would need to multiply the answer by 5:
(36.6% of 10,000 X 5 = 3,160 X 5 = 15,800)

So we would need to infuse the genie with 25,800 spirit points to level it?
(10,000 + 15,800 = 25,800)

Do I understand it correctly?
THANKS!

aazadan · May 2009

.4*25,000=10,000 that's how much exp the genie needs at that level.

Now, to transfer exp, 19/60 is .3166. So, your exp transfer rate is 31.66%. If you instead transfer spirit, you'll transfer it at a rate of 158.33% (19/60*5=1.5833).

10,000/.3166=31585.59 which will be 31586 exp given to your genie in order for it to get the necessary 10,000. If you instead use spirit it would be 10,000/1.5833=6115.92 which is 6116 spirit transferred in order to level the genie.

Xhinzo - Harshlands · May 2009

The only annoying thing I find so far is the waiting period before being able to trade genies. That was simply uncalled for.

aazadan · May 2009

It makes sense to me, if they didn't do that what would be the point of using Mirage Stones to get a new Genie? You could simply delete and remake characters to quickly get a free one.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · May 2009

I'm not sure if that math is correct. According this guide here:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=281472

it states that "1 SP = 5 XP". This means you need to divide by 5 for Spirit, not multiply by 5.

I haven't touched my genie beyond equipping it, so I don't really know what I'm talking about. I'm just quoting the guide.

aazadan · May 2009

It's correct according to the several levels I've checked it at on my genie. The way I wrote the formula makes 5 xp worth 1 sp, you're thinking about it backwards.

esotericsoul · May 2009

Thanks, aazadan.
Although I like my results better...your calculations make more sense.b:surrender

Obsessed - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not sure if that math is correct. According this guide here:

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=281472

it states that "1 SP = 5 XP". This means you need to divide by 5 for Spirit, not multiply by 5.

I haven't touched my genie beyond equipping it, so I don't really know what I'm talking about. I'm just quoting the guide.

That states it correctly, and it does mean -multiply-. You are just interperting incorrectly.

1 SP = 5 XP
1 XP = 1 XP

Therefor SP gives 5 times more then XP.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear · May 2009

aazadan wrote: »

.4*25,000=10,000 that's how much exp the genie needs at that level.

Now, to transfer exp, 19/60 is .3166. So, your exp transfer rate is 31.66%. If you instead transfer spirit, you'll transfer it at a rate of 158.33% (19/60*5=1.5833).

10,000/.3166=31585.59 which will be 31586 exp given to your genie in order for it to get the necessary 10,000. If you instead use spirit it would be 10,000/1.5833=6115.92 which is 6116 spirit transferred in order to level the genie.

Actually, 10,000/1.5833 is 6315.92 . I think you have a typo in your numbers.

Furthermore, you have some rounding errors in your math:

10,000 = XP * (19/60)
10000 / (19/60) = XP <- You can paste this into Windows Calculator to verify
10000 / (19/60) = 31,578.95 XP

Now, assuming 1 SP equals 5 XP:

(10000 / (19/60)) / 5 = 6,315.79 SP

Or, simply, divide the XP result by 5 and you get the SP result.

I don't think I have it backwards; we both (aazadan and I) are correct. There is a factor of 5 somewhere in the math. aazadan applied it in a different part of the math (via multiplication) than the way I did (via division).

What I was confused about was esotericsoul's math, which utterly threw me off. And because his math threw me off, I thought it had something to do with the 5-factor.

aazadan · May 2009

You're right on the 6315.92, that was a typo. Anyways, that's still 6316 exp in order to level, thanks for catching that, I was wondering what was up when I divided exp needed by spirit needed earlier and came up with 5.15 or something, that was pretty far off from the 5 it should be.

As far as the rounding errors go, if you really want to get specific, the displayed modifier only goes 1 digit past the decimal, rounding it up. Using my current genie as an example, it's 38 and I'm 64, it displays 59.4% infuse rate for exp and 296.9% for spirit while the actual math works out to 59.375% and 296.875%. I ended up just rounding stuff off as a result.

Messing around with it now, however I see that the game isn't actually rounding at 1 decimal, but rather truncating the final exp result, with no rounding before that (or no significant rounding atleast). For example, I just tried converting 6901 exp and it works out to 4097. So if I were going off that displayed rate it should be 4099 exp, but since it's 4097, it shows that you're actually right there and the amount needed would be 10000/(19/60) as you said rather than 10000/.3166.

esotericsoul · May 2009

Ok.. I put together a spreadsheet that will give you the amount of player expereience or spirit points that you need to infuse your genie to level-up at any given player level.

How it works:

You change the current player level in the yellow box, and the spreadsheet will calculate the rest. The default posted example is for a level 20 player.

You cannot edit the spread sheet online (the file was created in Microsoft Excel 2003) so you will need to download it. Click the link below, then "file" , "export" , ".xls"

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rhqdjxWYBjyWX1Q5dkrvC6Q

These formulas have been calculated based on the information posted so far and have not been completely tested for all levels in the game. (If there is anything wrong, PLEASE LET ME KNOW (politely) and I will remove or fix it--I do not want to spread erroneous information.)

esotericsoul · May 2009

From my tests, the spreadsheet appears to run correctly. Anyone else try it out? I'd apprecaite any feedback.

Playing around with it, it clearly shows that it takes a Level 40 Player roughly twice as much to level a genie from 1 to 20, than it does for a Level 20 Player to bring a Genie up to level 20. (Or course, the argument can be made that the level 40 player can obtain more experience easier than the level 20 player.)

Level 20 player:
Cumulative amounts to raise a new Genie to level 20: 99,520 exp or 19,908 spirit.

Level 40 player:
Cumulative amounts to raise a new Genie to level 20: 197,320 exp or 39,464 spirit.

(Just waiting to see if a tool like this pops up on ecatomb.net.)

erethizon1 · May 2009

Seeing as how you cannot raise your genie past your current level I am really surprised they did it that way. Sure it may only take 22 experience to raise your genie when you are level one but it doubles to 44 when you get to level 2. That is particularly lame when you consider that you cannot get the genie to level 2 until you have already reached level 2. I guess you need to make sure and pump 21 experience in at level one so you only have that last point doubled. There should have been at least a 1 level leeway before the penalty started and ideally a few levels.

yarok · May 2009

Player experience at lvl 20 is 25,000 to reach lvl 21. As the example refers to getting a lvl 19 Genie to lvl 20 should the maths refer to player experience required at lvl 19 to get to 20 i.e. 22325 ??

I note that esotericsoul spreadsheet works on the player lvl being 19 meaning you need to transfer 28200 Exp to get Genie to lvl 20, not 31,578.95.

Alyyy - Sanctuary · May 2009

b:sweatb:puzzledb:beatenupto many numbers here i got confused

esotericsoul · May 2009

yarok wrote: »

Player experience at lvl 20 is 25,000 to reach lvl 21. As the example refers to getting a lvl 19 Genie to lvl 20 should the maths refer to player experience required at lvl 19 to get to 20 i.e. 22325 ??

I note that esotericsoul spreadsheet works on the player lvl being 19 meaning you need to transfer 28200 Exp to get Genie to lvl 20, not 31,578.95.

Yes. You are right. I believe the spreadsheet gives the correct totals, and my original example assumed the incorrect numbers. (I've tested this for a few levels in game.)

As far as "too many number", it is a bit daunting at first, but heres a simple way to look at it: Put your player level in the yellow box. (the current spreadsheet has "20", but you change this to YOUR PLAYER LEVEL) and you see the following:

a. Every possible player level/genie level is listed down the left column (Columns "A" and "C")
b. The RED columns are player experience required to infuse genie.
c. The BLUE columns are player spirit required to infuse genie.

For the results: You really only need to look at the red and blue columns:
1. For the amount you need to infuse at each level, look at column "E" for experience, or column "F" for spirit.
2. For the total amount you need to infuse if you start with a new genie, look at the last 2 right columns ("I" and "J")

So, to walk through it, with the spreadsheet as posted:

Spreadsheet link here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rhqdjxWYBjyWX1Q5dkrvC6Q
You can download the excel spreadsheet to edit for your particular player level by following the link, then click "file" , "export" , ".xls"

Example 1: You are a player at level 20, and you have a genie at level 13.

So you put "20" in the yellow box. Let's say you want to know how much you need to infuse get a genie from level 13 to 14. Look for Genie level 13 (down on column "C") and go across to columns "E" and "F": it say, you need 6,120 player experience to infuse, or 1,224 spirit to infuse to level your genie from level 13 to level 14.

Example 2: You are a player at level 20, and you are getting a brand new genie. (And you want to level this genie all the way from 1 to 14.)

So again, put "20" in the yellow box. How much TOTAL experience or spirit do you need to get the genie to level 14? Look for Genie level 13 (your desired level minus 1), and go across to Columns "I" and "J": it says, you need a TOTAL of 41,460 player experience to infuse, or 8,292 spirit to infuse.

Clear as calculus?

b:surrender

yarok · May 2009

Thnx for the spreadsheet esotericsoul, much appreciated.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · May 2009

esotericsoul wrote: »

If this known, we can determine if it would be more efficient to create a new character to train a genie than to feed the points from your higher level character. For example, if you are at level 60, would it be more effective to make an alternate character to bring a genie up to, say, level 20, or level 30 (there must a break even point), and then transfer it to your level 60 player?

But what's the rate that the level 60 character gains XP/Spirit vs. the rate the level 30 character does? Wouldn't you still need to figure this out through experimentation to know which is going to be a more efficient use of time?

esotericsoul · May 2009

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

But what's the rate that the level 60 character gains XP/Spirit vs. the rate the level 30 character does? Wouldn't you still need to figure this out through experimentation to know which is going to be a more efficient use of time?

This is true. A higher level player should be able to gain more amounts of experience quicker than a lower level player. But that really would depend on so many factors, like player style, quests avaibile, grinding, etc. that I am not sure how you could easily compare.

HOWEVER, what this DOES show is that if you level your genie along with your character, in the end you will have to invest a lot less experience total overall in your genie.

To illustrate, take a look at the example of the level 20 player on my spreadsheet:

LEVEL 20 EXAMPLE:
1. A level 20 needs to infuse a total amount of 99,540 experience to bring his genie up to level 21.
2. Now, if you got your genie as a level 1 player and raised the genie level along with you every step of the way, when you both reach level 20, you will have to spend a total of 69,042 experience throughout the 20 level life of your character on your genie. (You figure this out by adding the numbers in Column D since you have a 100% infusion rate at each level. That is, 22 + 88 + 198 + 352 + ... + 10,000)

(A savings of 30,498 total experience!)

LEVEL 60 EXAMPLE: Plug 60 into the current player and you get the following:
1. At level 60, to bring a genie up to level 61, you need 3,893,000 experience.
2. Now, starting at level 1 and taking your genie up with you every level, you only need 2,835,534 experience throughout your 60 levels.

(A savings of 1,057,466 total experience!)

Considering at level 60, you only need 468,000 experience to get your character to level 61, this is a significant savings. Another way to look at it is that you need to get the experience equivalent of a little more than 2 levels above 60 and feed that into your genie to get it to your level. So you are basically delaying your character growth of 2 levels in order to bring your genie up 60 levels. (Of course, this is considering you are using experience and no spirit.)

Now, am I advocating everyone start over and raise their genies with their characters?

Not neccessarily, since at higher levels, chances are, we have some extra experience and/or spirit, and higher players have a greater ability to gain larger quantities of experience than the lower players. Also, how important is it to have a genie at the same level as your character, or will you be happy with getting a genie to a certain level to unlock their skills and leveling as you see fit after that?

So....I can only assume this infusion rate penalty was the intent of PWI to introduce the genies in the most fair way to all level players. Plus, as we all know, it's an incredible experience and spirit sink no matter which way you look at it, which will slow down the growth of your character(if you choose to invest in a genie) and prolong the game (not to mention the potential of all the genie-related cash shop items they could release).

Pretty clever if you think about it.

Leaderalan - Lost City · May 2009

NEW Full genie skill list
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=288021

truekossy · May 2009

esotericsoul wrote: »

This is true. A higher level player should be able to gain more amounts of experience quicker than a lower level player. But that really would depend on so many factors, like player style, quests avaibile, grinding, etc. that I am not sure how you could easily compare.

HOWEVER, what this DOES show is that if you level your genie along with your character, in the end you will have to invest a lot less experience total overall in your genie.

To illustrate, take a look at the example of the level 20 player on my spreadsheet:

LEVEL 20 EXAMPLE:
1. A level 20 needs to infuse a total amount of 99,540 experience to bring his genie up to level 21.
2. Now, if you got your genie as a level 1 player and raised the genie level along with you every step of the way, when you both reach level 20, you will have to spend a total of 69,042 experience throughout the 20 level life of your character on your genie. (You figure this out by adding the numbers in Column D since you have a 100% infusion rate at each level. That is, 22 + 88 + 198 + 352 + ... + 10,000)

(A savings of 30,498 total experience!)

LEVEL 60 EXAMPLE: Plug 60 into the current player and you get the following:
1. At level 60, to bring a genie up to level 61, you need 3,893,000 experience.
2. Now, starting at level 1 and taking your genie up with you every level, you only need 2,835,534 experience throughout your 60 levels.

(A savings of 1,057,466 total experience!)

Considering at level 60, you only need 468,000 experience to get your character to level 61, this is a significant savings. Another way to look at it is that you need to get the experience equivalent of a little more than 2 levels above 60 and feed that into your genie to get it to your level. So you are basically delaying your character growth of 2 levels in order to bring your genie up 60 levels. (Of course, this is considering you are using experience and no spirit.)

Now, am I advocating everyone start over and raise their genies with their characters?

Not neccessarily, since at higher levels, chances are, we have some extra experience and/or spirit, and higher players have a greater ability to gain larger quantities of experience than the lower players. Also, how important is it to have a genie at the same level as your character, or will you be happy with getting a genie to a certain level to unlock their skills and leveling as you see fit after that?

So....I can only assume this infusion rate penalty was the intent of PWI to introduce the genies in the most fair way to all level players. Plus, as we all know, it's an incredible experience and spirit sink no matter which way you look at it, which will slow down the growth of your character(if you choose to invest in a genie) and prolong the game (not to mention the potential of all the genie-related cash shop items they could release).

Pretty clever if you think about it.

This doesn't account for one thing: The one week time duration it takes to set a genie to trade state. If your character is able to grind an equivalent amount of exp/spirit as the character that stays behind and levels with their genie in a week or less, then it's easier to just let the higher leveled character raise the genie (assuming they don't have an excess amount of spirit) since that character will also have the plus of better mob drops... which means more coin to buy chi stones or getting better chi stones from decomposing gear, and that's IF you choose to spend your coin on chi stones.

erethizon1 · May 2009

esotericsoul wrote: »

LEVEL 60 EXAMPLE: Plug 60 into the current player and you get the following:
1. At level 60, to bring a genie up to level 61, you need 3,893,000 experience.
2. Now, starting at level 1 and taking your genie up with you every level, you only need 2,835,534 experience throughout your 60 levels.

(A savings of 1,057,466 total experience!)

Considering at level 60, you only need 468,000 experience to get your character to level 61, this is a significant savings. Another way to look at it is that you need to get the experience equivalent of a little more than 2 levels above 60 and feed that into your genie to get it to your level. So you are basically delaying your character growth of 2 levels in order to bring your genie up 60 levels. (Of course, this is considering you are using experience and no spirit.)

I think the main thing these numbers show is that it was totally unnecessary to have an experience penalty for higher level players at all. Even without an experience penalty it would take six levels of experience for a level 60 character to raise his genie up to him and the penalty makes it eight instead. Is that really necessary? There really is no need for a penalty. People that wait until 60 to raise their genie do not get the benefit of a higher level genie during those first 60 levels. That is all the penalty that is needed. Adding an extra two level penalty is unnecessary.

Genie Leveling Experience Calcuations

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