Sage and Demon
Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
Posts: 1,175 Arc User
I ask this on behalve of a friend.
Why does everyone recommend Axe BMs going sage, I see no reason to.
Can someone explain please?
Why does everyone recommend Axe BMs going sage, I see no reason to.
Can someone explain please?
We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
(Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
(Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
Post edited by Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »I ask this on behalve of a friend.
Why does everyone recommend Axe BMs going sage, I see no reason to.
Can someone explain please?
Because, either:
A) They are carebears.
They don't know what they are talking about. 0 -
so .. what s the explaination?
is it true , better will be sage than demon for axe BM?0 -
it all depends on how he plays... demon/sage both have their pro/cons.0
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people say that:
Sage = More HP/Def/Chi
And
Hell = More attack/Crit/Speed
And I honestly don't see why...lolBack.0 -
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Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »I ask this on behalve of a friend.
Why does everyone recommend Axe BMs going sage, I see no reason to.
Can someone explain please?
I went heaven for a few reasons, mostly vigor, axe and hammer mastery, golden bell ect.
for me I don't need weapon attack speed or crit; I don't melee mobs and I have 16% crit with axes. more pros to heaven than cons for my playing style.b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
I went heaven for a few reasons, mostly vigor, axe and hammer mastery, golden bell ect.
for me I don't need weapon attack speed or crit; I don't melee mobs and I have 16% crit with axes. more pros to heaven than cons for my playing style.
you're an axe bm and you don't melee mobs? that makes sense b:laugh0 -
Nevlik - Heavens Tear wrote: »you're an axe bm and you don't melee mobs? that makes sense b:laugh
Mobs people whatever. I use skills. Sorry I'll dumb it down next time.b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
16% crit with axes? where did you get that??0
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SirHawkEye - Sanctuary wrote: »16% crit with axes? where did you get that??
easy, 2% crit ring, 2% crit axes, crit blessing, crit arrow, and stacking alot of dex for accuracy and crit.b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
complexx wrote:easy, 2% crit ring, 2% crit axes, crit blessing, crit arrow, and stacking alot of dex for accuracy and crit.
Last I heard, crit arrows were tested as irrelevant on actual crit rate unless you're shooting them out of a bow. They do make your character menu crit rate jump, though, and everyone always loves a good placebo.0 -
easy, 2% crit ring, 2% crit axes, crit blessing, crit arrow, and stacking alot of dex for accuracy and crit.
What a fckn noob. Another fail WR from my-en stfu already you sucked **** then and you suck **** now. Stop spreading filth in my forums. What the **** are you doing with axes as your main and having at least 220 dex?
crit arrow lol "i dont melee mobs" Sinnerz thinks hes a mage.
Now listen to a pro WR...
most warriors, axes atleast, go heaven for the chi skill and the axe mastery. axe WRs rely on constant high damage not proc crits, and heaven offers us that.The fail EP that has emo butterly wings on a male character that talks the most trash0 -
Phoenix - Dreamweaver wrote: »Last I heard, crit arrows were tested as irrelevant on actual crit rate unless you're shooting them out of a bow. They do make your character menu crit rate jump, though, and everyone always loves a good placebo.
I dunno if they do or not, but in any case I have one on.Asma - Lost City wrote: »What a fckn noob. Another fail WR from my-en stfu already you sucked **** then and you suck **** now. Stop spreading filth in my forums. What the **** are you doing with axes as your main and having at least 220 dex?
crit arrow lol "i dont melee mobs" Sinnerz thinks hes a mage.
Now listen to a pro WR...
most warriors, axes atleast, go heaven for the chi skill and the axe mastery. axe WRs rely on constant high damage not proc crits, and heaven offers us that.
Awe guess you needa take out the tamp and cool off, someones heated over pixels, I use skills, if its pvp or grinding, I don't sit there and melee mobs one by one, if you want to confuse that because you're a dim witted fail troll go ahead, but really you just make yourself look dumb. How?
Well, I never played My-En. Sinnerz is my first account on any Perfect world game lol@your ignorance.
Second who said I have 220 Dex? O_o That's what you get for assuming and making yourself look re-tarded.
Pretty sure 8% crit off gear alone (yes includes the crit arrow in any case even if it doesn't work) didn't know 8% more crit = 220 dex. You're horribly stupid.
You get yourself all worked up over nothing and make yourself look like a idiot to everyone in the forums then say you're pro?
Im totally new to this game, this is my first time through. but im pretty sure having almost 8k hp unbuffed, enuff str for gx, and decent crit doesn't make me noob. Im sure my stats could be better but im not concerned. I never claimed to be pro.
Now please say something about me being fail, or me using a crit arrow, or me not meleeing mobs, It just goes to show you how ignorant people like you are.
Btw, Didn't I mention I went heaven for the axe and hammer mastery and chi? Guess you sure are a pro wr re-stating what I already said.
LOLUMAD?b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
K long way to go still, but what about Polearm? Demon or Sage?0
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b:chuckleb:chuckle0
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I dunno if they do or not, but in any case I have one on.
Awe guess you needa take out the tamp and cool off, someones heated over pixels, I use skills, if its pvp or grinding, I don't sit there and melee mobs one by one, if you want to confuse that because you're a dim witted fail troll go ahead, but really you just make yourself look dumb. How?
Well, I never played My-En. Sinnerz is my first account on any Perfect world game lol@your ignorance.
Second who said I have 220 Dex? O_o That's what you get for assuming and making yourself look re-tarded.
Pretty sure 8% crit off gear alone (yes includes the crit arrow in any case even if it doesn't work) didn't know 8% more crit = 220 dex. You're horribly stupid.
You get yourself all worked up over nothing and make yourself look like a idiot to everyone in the forums then say you're pro?
Im totally new to this game, this is my first time through. but im pretty sure having almost 8k hp unbuffed, enuff str for gx, and decent crit doesn't make me noob. Im sure my stats could be better but im not concerned. I never claimed to be pro.
Now please say something about me being fail, or me using a crit arrow, or me not meleeing mobs, It just goes to show you how ignorant people like you are.
Btw, Didn't I mention I went heaven for the axe and hammer mastery and chi? Guess you sure are a pro wr re-stating what I already said.
LOLUMAD?
dunno how 2% crit axes and a 2% crit ring give you 8% crit rate lol? and if youre not from my-en say chi not vigor and its 'bladmaster' to you so adress me as such. and unlike you i have gxs 10% crit and 8.8k hp unbuffed.
thanks for the tampon advice though it was crusty when i took it out. b:cuteThe fail EP that has emo butterly wings on a male character that talks the most trash0 -
Asma - Lost City wrote: »dunno how 2% crit axes and a 2% crit ring give you 8% crit rate lol? and if youre not from my-en say chi not vigor and its 'bladmaster' to you so adress me as such. and unlike you i have gxs 10% crit and 8.8k hp unbuffed.
thanks for the tampon advice though it was crusty when i took it out. b:cute
When I started this game, All the people I met used my-en terms, so that's how I learned, Blademaster is a lame term imo. I prefer warrior, Im next in line for Gx's so I will get them soon enough. Again im not concerned with having better stats than you.
Thanks for taking it out, you're alot more pleasant to talk to when you're not being a ****.b:cute
Sinnerz Lost City PvP.0 -
Asma - Lost City wrote: »dunno how 2% crit axes and a 2% crit ring give you 8% crit rate lol? and if youre not from my-en say chi not vigor and its 'bladmaster' to you so adress me as such. and unlike you i have gxs 10% crit and 8.8k hp unbuffed.
thanks for the tampon advice though it was crusty when i took it out. b:cute
You're a pro...At 40? And yes, i'm only level 26, but its obvious that #1: You are most certainly not, in anyway, a pro. Secondly: Complexx may be new to the stats, and understanding of THIS particular MMO, such as myself, but its obvious that knowladge from other MMO's and basic understanding are better then a god complex.
b:pleased @ Complexx. Ignore the morons.0 -
Looking at the skills on ecatome or however it's spelled; the axe is probably the only BM that can really benefit from going heaven. With everyone else it seems like the demon skills are superior, especially because the other weapons are single target for the most part.0
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lol Asma... dont give comments if you are going to make a fool out of yourself. You for one thing is a god damn noob... Go to forums and then read carefully not shooting your mouth off without even thinking.. oh wait do you even have a brain??? sorry I didnt know you were without one.0
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well as a fist bm im wondering if the active haste increase for demon will compensate for the additional 30% fists damage you would get as sage for fist mastery.
note i am only Conserned with Pve not pvp
for sage Shadowless kick reduced to 10 seconds would let me interupt more than every other cast a fight. Cyclobe heel would be guarented to Always be up since the duration is greater than the cooldown.
aura of bell more defence
sutra beter heal
demon does have a better higher dps triple spark but i can't see em spaming that as mutch as i do my double spark. basicly its seem that Hell is more Burst dammage and Sage is more susstained dammage over time. I wonder which would be better over a sustained boss fight and or solo grinding.0 -
Therondy - Sanctuary wrote: »well as a fist bm im wondering if the active haste increase for demon will compensate for the additional 30% fists damage you would get as sage for fist mastery.
note i am only Conserned with Pve not pvp
for sage Shadowless kick reduced to 10 seconds would let me interupt more than every other cast a fight. Cyclobe heel would be guarented to Always be up since the duration is greater than the cooldown.
aura of bell more defence
sutra beter heal
demon does have a better higher dps triple spark but i can't see em spaming that as mutch as i do my double spark. basicly its seem that Hell is more Burst dammage and Sage is more susstained dammage over time. I wonder which would be better over a sustained boss fight and or solo grinding.
Both celestial skills gain an increase over lvl 10; demon fist mastery is 75% and sage gets an additional 15% for 90%. However, the damage formula (1+(STR*2/3)+MAS) means that 15% isn't as great as you would think. By the time you can get the celestial version, you should have over 300 str for a build that focuses on DPS and damage. Meaning sage does a 3.9+ multiple, and demon does a 3.75+ multiple. Which comes out to the sage only dealing 4% extra damage over a demon, who gets 1% crit from that skill. But they also get more speed, meaning an appreciable difference in damage in favor of the demon. Also, higher you level, the less extra damage sage fist mastery does over demon.MoobyBlast - Lost City wrote: »Looking at the skills on ecatome or however it's spelled; the axe is probably the only BM that can really benefit from going heaven. With everyone else it seems like the demon skills are superior, especially because the other weapons are single target for the most part.
I'm not even sure that axe benefits from going heaven more. There are only 2 skills that are better sage; fissure that reduces mag 30% which increases damage a bit for 1 skill, and Highland which has only a 25% chance of happening. Demon gets Drake Bash with a longer stun time, and the ultimate skill which lasts 50% longer. And during that extra time, you can get 1 or 2 extra AoE skills damage doubled. So hands down, demon has the over-all damage ability.0 -
Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »Both celestial skills gain an increase over lvl 10; demon fist mastery is 75% and sage gets an additional 15% for 90%. However, the damage formula (1+(STR*2/3)+MAS) means that 15% isn't as great as you would think. By the time you can get the celestial version, you should have over 300 str for a build that focuses on DPS and damage. Meaning sage does a 3.9+ multiple, and demon does a 3.75+ multiple. Which comes out to the sage only dealing 4% extra damage over a demon, who gets 1% crit from that skill. But they also get more speed, meaning an appreciable difference in damage in favor of the demon. Also, higher you level, the less extra damage sage fist mastery does over demon.
I'm not even sure that axe benefits from going heaven more. There are only 2 skills that are better sage; fissure that reduces mag 30% which increases damage a bit for 1 skill, and Highland which has only a 25% chance of happening. Demon gets Drake Bash with a longer stun time, and the ultimate skill which lasts 50% longer. And during that extra time, you can get 1 or 2 extra AoE skills damage doubled. So hands down, demon has the over-all damage ability.
Sorry but your math is flawed. There is a 15% difference between sage weapon mastery and demon weapon mastery. And I doubt a fist user would have over 300str at that level. But who know.
I will use a hypothetical easy to use number to demonstrate.
If you hit for 1000 damage
Sage damage would be - 1900 damage
Demon damage would be - 1750 damage
A difference of 150 damage or 15%.
It will not change as you level up and deal more damage.
Edit: Just to use your own number
Hit without master deals 3000dmg
Sage - 5700dmg
Hell - 5250dmgRetired
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Sylvae is right actually.
The benefits masteries give you are dependent on your "weapon damage" not the actual damage you do, so the real difference between the 75% of demon and 90% of sage only shows when you have "high" level refine.
Someone describe it to me like this: "For a sage a +6 weapon feels like a +8; for a demon a +6 feels like a +7. But if both are unrefined it's not going to make much of a difference."
EDIT: I think my informant was talking in pvp terms which reduces the difference in damage even lower. In pve I think I makes a bit more of a difference than what he make it sound like.0 -
Okay, but you will have to go into more depth about the formula used. And some explanation on how the mastery's amplify damage works would be good. Does it amplify damage dealt by an weapon hit or just the weapon damage before calculation. And please site sources where this information was found. (because if its damage dealt by a weapon it could be amplified after hit calculation(this is how I read the skill) or is it damage of weapon in general is increased by % before any other factors are calculated.)
Skill description reads as follows.
Increases "Insert weapon type here" weapon damage by "insert % here"
But until then lets look at it again.
☆Calloused Lionheart Hatchets
Physical attack = 582-1358
If % increase is added to just weapon.
Math here is atk*1.9 - atk*1.9
Sage = 1105.8 - 2580.2
Math here is atk*1.75 - atk*1.75
Demon = 1018.5 - 2376.5
This is still a 15% difference.
Okay so I think this maybe what she is referring to.
Weapon Damage as it reads on Character Screen.
2107- 4209 minimum strength requirement used.
math used here is. Difference in atk add between sage and demon(above numbers used) added to weapon screen information.
Sage ? = 2630.8 - 5431.2
Demon ? = 2543.5 - 5227.5
Using this method weapon damage is less then a 4% difference. I believe this method is most likely flawed. As the amplify effect should show up differently in character overview if % increase is being applied to weapon only.(like a shard)
Now if using just the 15% increase per hit.
Sage ? = 4003.3 - 7997.1
Demon ? = 3687.25 - 7155.3
This is how I have understood the way the damage works. Because I am hitting an enemy with a particular weapon the % increase in damage is applied to the hit itself. (Weapon Damage (the hit itself) % increase)
More information is needed. If you would please use the math used in your formula. So i can see. An explanation on + mastery in the formula would be nice. And more importantly sources of where this information was gathered is needed.
Thank you for bringing this up. This is very interesting to me.Retired
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The difference between Heaven and Hell masteries is a mere 67~350 physical attack, depending how refined your weapon is (the latter one being at +12 refinement).
EDIT: I'll use an example:
Level 99 WR with 300 STR.
Weapon: Calloused Lionheart Hatchets (GX)
Weapon physical attack: 582-1358
Physical attack without anything: 297-297
Physical attack using GX: 2274-4602
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 1: 2319-4694
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 2: 2365-4786
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 3: 2410-4878
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 4: 2456-4970
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 5: 2501-5062
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 6: 2547-5154
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 7: 2592-5246
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 8: 2638-5338
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 9: 2683-5430
Physical attack using GX and Axe Mastery Level 10: 2729-5522
As you can see the difference between minimum physical attack increases by 45~46 and around 92 for maximum physical attack every Mastery level, because it increases weapon damage by 6%. Lets see how it looks with Heaven and Hell.
Physical attack using GX and Hell Axe Mastery: 2843-5753
Physical attack using GX and Heaven Axe Mastery: 2956-5983
There is a difference of 113 minimum physical attack and 230 maximum physical attack. Now with +12 refined weapon:
Weapon physical attack: 1332-2108
Physical attack using +12 GX and Hell Axe Mastery: 5655-8565
Physical attack using +12 GX and Heaven Axe Mastery: 5881-8908
There is a difference of 226 minimum physical attack and 343 maximum physical attack.
While it might be noticeable during PvE, it is pretty much nothing in PvP.0 -
So what path did you take Lyn and Why?
Edit: Wouldn't heaven be more noticeable in pvp if you zerk + crit. That would be a 904-1372 extra damage......Retired
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AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »So what path did you take Lyn and Why?
Edit: Wouldn't heaven be more noticeable in pvp if you zerk + crit. That would be a 904-1372 extra damage......
Damage which gets affected by PvP reduction and the defense of the opponent. That is, if you have a +12 Weapon.
And I'm Hell of course :P0 -
But the % increase in damage would still be the same......!!
And you never answered my question Lyn....Why demon...what were the deciding factors......Retired
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AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear wrote: »But the % increase in damage would still be the same......!!
And you never answered my question Lyn....Why demon...what were the deciding factors......
Yes, depending on how refined your weapon is you will get a 45-343 more damage than Hell WR with Berserker+Critical Hit...if it is just normal damage, then it is 11~85 more damage.
And the factors...pretty much every single skill and weapon. Hell is superior over Heaven for my playing style.0
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