What is fake bidding?

lamerboi2003 · May 2009

GetPurged - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol, which time? And what server are you from?
I'm gonna guess you're talking about the...
"QueenBII/Charity" ban a month or so ago?

LOL!! I didn't mention any names....

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary · May 2009

Say TheFalls owned half the map (LOL!, as if...).

lame irony, the leader of the faction who owns the 22 territory half of the map on sanc is named Falls. and i heard he got banned for this whole fake bid **** too (rumor going around)

Maddrox - Harshlands · May 2009

I understand why there was a ban, it's not fair who can't affford to outbid those who havee massiv amount of $ to protect themselves from being attacked.
Shame on you b:bye

Besides, i'm sure they have evidence in the servers that made them decide on who to ban.

lamerboi2003 · May 2009

Saw some people doing for fun bids and got banned.

Jayson_fall - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

lame irony, the leader of the faction who owns the 22 territory half of the map on sanc is named Falls. and i heard he got banned for this whole fake bid **** too (rumor going around)

Was just a poke at my own faction on HT. All my characters have the last name '_Fall(s)', as do my wife's. So we made a guild called...you guessed it, TheFalls.

Back OT, I guess it does kinda suck if someone got banned for fake bidding, if they were the only one to bid. Actually, that really doesn't make sense.

Oh well. Just ad it to the growing list of things I'll probably never understand that happen behind the scenes. I find it hard to believe the GM's would go ban happy with out proof their actions were legit.

Saomuel - Dreamweaver · May 2009

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What's wrong with 'fake bids'?

Spend some time on PW-BR and you'll get your question answered.

By the way, I already left it and came to PWI. And compared to that, I'm feeling in paradise now.

Aoe - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Actually the reason why fake bidding is a bannable offense is because it exploits a part of the game that it's original purpose wasn't intended for. It's not a tactic to protect your territory it's cheating. It's a design flaw that thankfully the gm's caught. It's like finding a bug in the game that could render you millions and taking advantage of it. I do believe pw has policy about exploiting the game in their terms of service when everyone registered to play the game.

# (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
# (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

So players who cheat shouldn't be surprised when they're caught.

RogueFox - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Chappy_Happy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I dont get it...
What's wrong with 'fake bids'?
Isnt that just strategy? It's like divide and conquer...kinda...I think...
I think it's a good money sink. Less coins, less inflation that way.

yeah but than enrage and Rad will continue holdin both ha;f of the map in HT

lamerboi2003 · May 2009

Aoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually the reason why fake bidding is a bannable offense is because it exploits a part of the game that it's original purpose wasn't intended for. It's not a tactic to protect your territory it's cheating. It's a design flaw that thankfully the gm's caught. It's like finding a bug in the game that could render you millions and taking advantage of it. I do believe pw has policy about exploiting the game in their terms of service when everyone registered to play the game.

# (k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
# (l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,

So players who cheat shouldn't be surprised when they're caught.

What about the players without the intent to exploit and got banned from it? Would that be considered harassment and abuse?? o.O
I feel that it'd be better to talk to the players and giving them knowledge on what and what not to do....Even though I've seen in the agreement saying that a person could be banned with or without notice, with or without reason, with or without warning.....Just a thought saying that it'd be wise to communicate to fellow players instead of being a ninja with the banhammer, and work it out professionally.

FangJingShan - Lost City · May 2009

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Annual is too long. You realize of course that with all this QQ about faction domination on the map PWI hasn't even been out for 1 full year yet right?

I know that PWI has only been out since September, however all the complaining is because there is massive domination and the only way to change that currently is by having another guild slowly take over. Were there an annual reset already in place from the beginning, people wouldn't be complaining about a single guild slowly dominating the entire map.

Also, there fifty-two weeks in a year and fourty-four territories on the map. Even if one guild happens to take them all, the most amount of time they will keep all of them at once is for eight weeks. If you make it shorter than a year, there will be no chance at all for any faction to take every territory, which is part of the point behind TW. If you couldn't take all the land and hold it for at least some time, what would there really be to accomplish?

Even assuming CQ were able to take all the territories, with an annual reset they would soon after lose them all. So unless you want to go with limited amounts of territories per faction, the only other good suggestion is to have a reset, and anything shorter than a year is not enough to give some leeway for losing a few battles.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary · May 2009

It could just be they have their accounts locked for investigation and are not totally banned. Most MMOs lock player accounts when investigating illegal activity, so dont jump to conclusions.

also at above poster, this isnt diablo, we dont do year long ladder systems. if there is resets, TW would have to occur more than once a week, and get reset every 4 months or so to better implement it

Aoe - Heavens Tear · May 2009

lamerboi2003 wrote: »

What about the players without the intent to exploit and got banned from it? Would that be considered harassment and abuse?? o.O
I feel that it'd be better to talk to the players and giving them knowledge on what and what not to do....Even though I've seen in the agreement saying that a person could be banned with or without notice, with or without reason, with or without warning.....Just a thought saying that it'd be wise to communicate to fellow players instead of being a ninja with the banhammer, and work it out professionally.

The thing about this is and i apologize if this offends anyone, but how could you not have malicious intent when fake bidding. Everyone know bidding on territory gives the opportunity for other guilds to siege to own new territory. However when you exploit the game like this you ruin everyone's fair chance. If it was a "joke" then still you violated the terms of service.

Now if you mean people who had no idea their guild had done this or people got banned who had nothing to do with this. Then I suggest that they summit a ticket so their account can go under investigation. Sometimes the IP addresses for players are so similar that a simple typo end up in a mistake. FACT: GM doesn't mean there is a robot policing the servers. These are human beings who like every other human sometimes makes mistakes. PW isn't so cruel that they would ban innocent people and not let them back to play. Even though their term of service allows them that right.

As far as talking to players on what to do and what not to do. That is what your term of service is there for. You shouldn't register for a game without reading through what your getting yourself into. The saying goes "When in doubt don't do it." If you think it's something that could get you in to trouble don't do it. Send a ticket to the GM or ask about it in the forums some players can help you out. Also if you see a bug like that or a flaw that could end in someone cheating it's good to be the honest person and report it to the GM's and Dev's. Sad to say many people rather be dishonest and gain an unfair advantage over others. Then when they've gotten caught they come crying to the forums as if they were innocent and hadn't done anything wrong.

Vazil - Sanctuary · May 2009

Personally, I do not believe there should be such a large financial reward for each territory owned. Using one poster's example, a particular dominant guild is receiving 220,000,000 coins PER WEEK. With a max member count of 200, each member would be recieving at or close to 1,000,000 per week. That's the equivalent of $100 USD each week. This is the incentive to "fake bid" - to keep the coin flowing in with little or no effort. These members then have the buying power to obtain massive amounts of items (botique or otherwise) - again, with little or no effort while driving prices up for everyone else. Meanwhile, players in smaller factions are relegated to either spending real dollars or grinding for coins to just keep up.

I'm not saying that good factions should not be rewarded for their accomplishments; but the reward should be more in line with the effort. Further, "fake bidding" is not really an accomplishment. Ultimately though the existing system which allows one or two guilds to completely dominate TW is rediculous. To get that much coin on a weekly basis (and maintain it) from territories should really require some effort besides "fake bidding" and just showing up.

My last comment on this subject is in relation to the effect of TW on the player community. The last two factions I was in wanted to TW. We bid and won and while very close, ultimately lost. Immediately following the loss, the faction started to fall apart as members bailed. I stuck it out for a while in each faction, but the ones who left tended to be the most active as well and the faction was really no longer a faction. I've seen this same thing happen to other factions as well - some of them having been pretty large at the time, then falling apart due to a TW loss. It's a shame that the player community (as well as PWI itself) has placed such an emphasis on TW and especially success in TW b:cry

Aoe - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Vazil - Sanctuary wrote: »

My last comment on this subject is in relation to the effect of TW on the player community. The last two factions I was in wanted to TW. We bid and won and while very close, ultimately lost. Immediately following the loss, the faction started to fall apart as members bailed. I stuck it out for a while in each faction, but the ones who left tended to be the most active as well and the faction was really no longer a faction. I've seen this same thing happen to other factions as well - some of them having been pretty large at the time, then falling apart due to a TW loss. It's a shame that the player community (as well as PWI itself) has placed such an emphasis on TW and especially success in TW b:cry

I was thinking that too. Players need cash that is obvious and it's difficult to go up against a guild with that kind of money since they have such "pimped out players". TW is definitely a guild destroyer, but it has a lot to do with the people in the guild. Rather than keep trying and supporting the guild until they can win something they just quit out of discouragement hoping and waiting till they get into one of the larger guilds. Loyalty is something that this game's player genre lacks the greed for money is very strong. Anytime you have a player that plays the game to win and have money you guarantee that person is ditching your guild. If you find people who play to make friends and enjoy the game and do a little TW for fun most likely they'll stick around.

Your best ability for now is too, grind, farm as much as you can to pimp out your player yourself. I'm afraid every standard mmo i encountered is like this with their tw or whatever term they use. It motivates players to spend cash shop money so that they are able to win in tw. As unfair as this might seem, that is what economics is all about. I'm not to sure dev's will change something that gives thier consumer the motivation to spend.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary · May 2009

Vazil - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally, I do not believe there should be such a large financial reward for each territory owned. Using one poster's example, a particular dominant guild is receiving 220,000,000 coins PER WEEK. With a max member count of 200, each member would be recieving at or close to 1,000,000 per week. That's the equivalent of $100 USD each week. This is the incentive to "fake bid" - to keep the coin flowing in with little or no effort. These members then have the buying power to obtain massive amounts of items (botique or otherwise) - again, with little or no effort while driving prices up for everyone else. Meanwhile, players in smaller factions are relegated to either spending real dollars or grinding for coins to just keep up.

I'm not saying that good factions should not be rewarded for their accomplishments; but the reward should be more in line with the effort. Further, "fake bidding" is not really an accomplishment. Ultimately though the existing system which allows one or two guilds to completely dominate TW is rediculous. To get that much coin on a weekly basis (and maintain it) from territories should really require some effort besides "fake bidding" and just showing up.

My last comment on this subject is in relation to the effect of TW on the player community. The last two factions I was in wanted to TW. We bid and won and while very close, ultimately lost. Immediately following the loss, the faction started to fall apart as members bailed. I stuck it out for a while in each faction, but the ones who left tended to be the most active as well and the faction was really no longer a faction. I've seen this same thing happen to other factions as well - some of them having been pretty large at the time, then falling apart due to a TW loss. It's a shame that the player community (as well as PWI itself) has placed such an emphasis on TW and especially success in TW b:cry

i said 240m, they own 2 cities. and their members get paid 1.5m a week for doing nothing. and their leader got banned for allegedly fake bidding. doesnt help the other major faction on sanc blew up their laptop. lol now both major factions are leader less ownoesssss

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · May 2009

Vazil - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not saying that good factions should not be rewarded for their accomplishments; but the reward should be more in line with the effort. Further, "fake bidding" is not really an accomplishment. Ultimately though the existing system which allows one or two guilds to completely dominate TW is rediculous. To get that much coin on a weekly basis (and maintain it) from territories should really require some effort besides "fake bidding" and just showing up.

Sadly, I think thats the diff. between a free game and a pay game =/ The overall environment just seems like a survival of the strongest and richest (whether or not it be cheat or no) and so many factors are involved since it IS a company and all.

My last comment on this subject is in relation to the effect of TW on the player community. The last two factions I was in wanted to TW. We bid and won and while very close, ultimately lost. Immediately following the loss, the faction started to fall apart as members bailed. I stuck it out for a while in each faction, but the ones who left tended to be the most active as well and the faction was really no longer a faction. I've seen this same thing happen to other factions as well - some of them having been pretty large at the time, then falling apart due to a TW loss. It's a shame that the player community (as well as PWI itself) has placed such an emphasis on TW and especially success in TW b:cry

Some pple probably just need some patience and loyalty instead of trying to get an easy gain. Its hard to find pple that will put in the effort after a loss to try better =(

starman17 · May 2009

fake bids can also be used to make a defending guild split its forces, as it might be attacked on multiple fronts at the same time without knowing whether or not an attacking guild poses a threat.

Maddrox - Harshlands · May 2009

lamerboi2003 wrote: »

What about the players without the intent to exploit and got banned from it? Would that be considered harassment and abuse?? o.O
I feel that it'd be better to talk to the players and giving them knowledge on what and what not to do....Even though I've seen in the agreement saying that a person could be banned with or without notice, with or without reason, with or without warning.....Just a thought saying that it'd be wise to communicate to fellow players instead of being a ninja with the banhammer, and work it out professionally.

I like ninjas

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · May 2009

starman17 wrote: »

fake bids can also be used to make a defending guild split its forces, as it might be attacked on multiple fronts at the same time without knowing whether or not an attacking guild poses a threat.

You can tell how strong an attacking faction is by looking at the "Max Refund" value. The value is based upon the number and level of players in the guild.

So, for example, a Max Refund of 180,000,000 indicates a genuine threat, while a Max Refund of 750,000 is just a few lower-levels either goofing around or putting in a fake bid.

starman17 · May 2009

interesting stuff..

starman17 · May 2009

i was just thinking, while it may seem like a 1 person faction bidding isn't hurting anybody, the fact is that this faction is increasing the minimum cost of a territory war bid from 500k to 600k, which is a 20% increase.

Though unlikely, it could be pricing the poorer factions out of the opportunity to fight in a TW.

Agravain - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Fake bidding is protecting territory from attack by outbidding opponents for tw using any alt guild that has no intention of actually doing battle. Naturally many of these requisites are subjective and so it really falls to the GMs discretion to determine if indeed fake bidding has occurred.
Enrage, however, would likely not stoop to fake bidding at this point since they are on a short leash with GMs for other bad behaviors and since there is only one guild that has a chance against them anyway. I can see only one strategy in which they would be tempted to do this and that would be if they see a bid for tw at a time that would be inopportune for them... ie during another battle. However, it would totally surprise me that they would stoop so low, especially since they seem to be anxious for a battle with an equal opponent.
The new director of Radiance, however, I believe has already stooped to this in the past when a member of Elysium. It is rumored that she was banned for this... little wonder her promotion to director is controversial.

starman17 · May 2009

PWI: We Know Drama

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Agravain - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Enrage, however, would likely not stoop to fake bidding at this point since they are on a short leash with GMs for other bad behaviors and since there is only one guild that has a chance against them anyway. I can see only one strategy in which they would be tempted to do this and that would be if they see a bid for tw at a time that would be inopportune for them... ie during another battle. However, it would totally surprise me that they would stoop so low, especially since they seem to be anxious for a battle with an equal opponent.

I'm going to point out that the red bolded part is nothing more than your opinion, and is irrelevant considering Fake Bidding will get anyone banned even if they've never committed a single infraction and were the nicest person to ever exist.

What is fake bidding?

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