Tank/herc

Xnastyx - Lost City
Xnastyx - Lost City Posts: 71 Arc User
edited May 2009 in Barbarian
Whats the point of going full tank build if a pet (herc) can tank better then a barb lol.
I heard this is y most high lvl(90+) barbs quit, or am i mislead reply's please
Post edited by Xnastyx - Lost City on
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Comments

  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    no there is alot of tanks left in the game. and to be honest yeah to anser your question there is no use in being a tank barb any more. hercs don't suffer from damage reduction in TTand the exp reward is enough to make the high lvl existing barbs who are tanks do your work for you.. if all else fails you could always just buy a charm for basically any barbarian who is 20 lvls higher than what you want done and they will tank it just for the free charm.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Hazardus - Heavens Tear
    Hazardus - Heavens Tear Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Umm, there are still plenty of bosses a herc cannot tank.

    FB69 boss Ceneques polearm being an example.

    To tank these bosses the herc needs to be a significantly higher level where as a much lower level barb can tank it.

    Ofcourse the barb needs good clerics tho.
    When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=760842
  • Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear
    Tequila_wolf - Heavens Tear Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    i've never been outdone by a herc, i feel they have huge limitations, when ti comes to holding aggro, and their dmg is limited also, as ours grows, which helps us hodl aggro even more, yes hercs are nice as if they die oh well, but we will neevr be completely replaced by them don't worry :)
  • Prowler - Heavens Tear
    Prowler - Heavens Tear Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    To name a few bosses which are barbarian territory, not Hercules:

    * Krimson Eyes [or much higher lvl BM]
    * General Wurlord in TT 2-x
    * FB69 last two bosses (or at least the debuff one)
    * Jewelscalen [or much higher lvl BM]
    * Crack Slasher in Ancient Lands
    * Dragon King (water boss) [or BM]

    Basically any boss that curses pets, and many water and air bosses. That is a fair number.

    If the expectation were that Barbarians would be essential for every boss, that would be greedy. I think the current distribution is quite decent.

    So, if there are any high barbarians on Heavens Tear feeling left out, please PM me in-game to join QuestSeek faction, you are assured of a warm welcome, and of being in constant demand!


    Warm Regards
    --
    Prowler (Venomancer) on Heaven's Tear

    Former Leader of QuestSeek: International level 3 faction.
  • origins
    origins Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I just made lvl 80 a couple days ago, and in the time since then I have been asked about a hundred times to tank for this or that. My guild leader is ten lvls higher and has a herc but still asks me to tank for harder bosses.
    In short yes a Herc is valuable but a tank at the same lvl is much better, and at higher lvls tanks are needed for almost everything.
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Some of my guildies have a herc, and they told my it has 3 major limitations:
    - Herc can't hold aggro as effectively as us barbs. This can be a problem in a squad.
    - Herc can't cancel skills from bosses. Especially on aoe skills this can be a problem.
    - Herc can't be purified. With the previous limit, this means debuffs are a major problem.

    Herc is an amazing pet, but it's still just a pet. I don't know many veno's that actually have a herc, saying it's a better tank then a barb. I think everybody agrees that barb + cleric is better than veno + herc.
  • Erado - Heavens Tear
    Erado - Heavens Tear Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    indeed, veno + herc rocks, but can never replace barb.

    not only because of the fact you cannot purify a herc, but also because of its hp shortage compared to a barbarian. especially if you look at how much some bosses hit, a pet just simply doesnt have enough hp to take that. like general wurlord that was mentioned above.
  • Tamaska - Heavens Tear
    Tamaska - Heavens Tear Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I have Tamaska (75 tank build) and a Velancia (68 fox veno w/herc).
    I'll give you the perfect reason that you still need a tank.

    You cant purify a pet. Plain and simple. Against a boss that debuffs, Herc will die every time.

    ~edit~ What Erado said =P
    If you want something great, you've gotta be willing to bet it all. If you bet it all, you had better be prepared to lose.
    ~No Regrets
  • Reivi - Sanctuary
    Reivi - Sanctuary Posts: 742 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I think that all has been said ;)

    Higher level tanks that leaves the game doesnt leave bcs of hercs..
    I look at all the trollers, and Pvpers.. and know they wouldnt have lasted 30sec on Camelot.

    Rules= Know your enemy (players and NPCs) gives you more chances to survive.
  • Cbastor - Lost City
    Cbastor - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    hercs canot out tank wb .like fb69 for example they cant tank that and,ahhh hercs cant tank things cuz of bosses aoes will kill the veno
  • _WillFire_ - Sanctuary
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary Posts: 563 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I'm suprised that no one has mentioned that Herc's can't pull cats. b:victory
    Mark 12:29-37
    _WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic
  • Tamaska - Heavens Tear
    Tamaska - Heavens Tear Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    _WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm suprised that no one has mentioned that Herc's can't pull cats. b:victory

    LOL Touche b:laugh
    If you want something great, you've gotta be willing to bet it all. If you bet it all, you had better be prepared to lose.
    ~No Regrets
  • xtinct23
    xtinct23 Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    The only higher level barbs that quit over a Herc are the ones that sucked to begin with.
  • Erado - Heavens Tear
    Erado - Heavens Tear Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    yeah thats probably right lol

    but overall, why not look at it from the bright side? because of hercs a barb doesnt have to show up for every other bosskill, which can get pretty demanding if your in a medium - large guild as high barbarian.
    and sometimes DDing instead of tanking can be fun too ^^ Remember you are still the only one with HP and phys attack buffs b:victory
  • Hazardus - Heavens Tear
    Hazardus - Heavens Tear Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Erado - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    yeah thats probably right lol

    but overall, why not look at it from the bright side? because of hercs a barb doesnt have to show up for every other bosskill, which can get pretty demanding if your in a medium - large guild as high barbarian.
    and sometimes DDing instead of tanking can be fun too ^^ Remember you are still the only one with HP and phys attack buffs b:victory

    Barb buffs FTW!!! b:victory

    And yes to the other part too. Lately I've been doing FB runs in my guild as a DD, coz I let the veno's pet do the tanking. Its a lot of fun when you arent the one getting hit. And as for a herc having aggro problems thats too true. Even I as a low power DD have managed to steal aggro from a herc from time to time.
    When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=760842
  • Tamaska - Heavens Tear
    Tamaska - Heavens Tear Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I'll agree with that all day long. Barb DD FTW! lol But even as a full tanker I have an agro problem with those damn calamaties I keep around. I can pull agro from a Herc 10 lvls higher than me without much work. XD
    If you want something great, you've gotta be willing to bet it all. If you bet it all, you had better be prepared to lose.
    ~No Regrets
  • Xnastyx - Lost City
    Xnastyx - Lost City Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    do u guyz kno if herc has like a aggro skill that the onwer can buy for it??cuz maintaining aggro does seem incredibly hard without one..b:chuckle
    and without true tanking abilities,what make that thing even special???
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Xnastyx - Lost City wrote: »
    and without true tanking abilities,what make that thing even special???

    Herc has really good tanking abilities FOR A PET. It normally only has to hold aggro for the veno. But the main thing that makes a herc special: it has 3 important buff skills no other pet has: Increase mag def, increase phys def and deflect. For a pet herc is really amazing, but it stays "just" a pet.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    don't know about others but i quit due to these 3 factors.

    lvl 60 players who are still noobs.
    either too much demand of my time or nothing to do.
    pk everything (pk based cleric not able to heal, pk based barbs w/charm who tank)

    yeah we can go DD instead of tank when there is a better tank than us but that is like tying a red blanket around our neck and seriously expecting to find louis lane
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    i guess the bottom line was that this game wasn't for me so i quit i think every one else who feels the same should and if your firend is trying to get out just let him or her don't try and keep them in.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • hiachisama
    hiachisama Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    i refuse to be replaced by a Veno's pet. Lol just remeber if the veno gets attacked and dies then thats the end of the herc b:victory
  • Kotecek - Lost City
    Kotecek - Lost City Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Barbs are needed..this's just stupid to quit playing as barb on 90+lvl IMO >.>

    Only barbs can take agrro of all mobs around by one skill ROAR. This safe lifes DDs... Herc need to attack single mob and this taked him a looong time ..

    And to be honest, here is more barbs then Hercs...
    My chars: 97 barb, 87 cleric, 91 veno, 80 archer, 74 Blademaster, 34 Psychic, 30 Assasin, 20 Wizard, 44 Seeker, 20 Mistyc.

    ^ I have SO many personalities to play them all! b:cute

    And YAY for my Phoenix!(on THIS veno ^^) b:victory
  • Hazardus - Heavens Tear
    Hazardus - Heavens Tear Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I agree with everything in your post Kotecek. b:victory
    Kotecek - Lost City wrote: »
    And to be honest, here is more barbs then Hercs...

    But that bit doesn't seem true anymore....b:chuckle
    When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=760842
  • Manovener - Heavens Tear
    Manovener - Heavens Tear Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    herc has allot of phys def but nowhere neer as much hp as a barb in tiger form.. i wanted to test this theory of urs, so i went to fake perfect world(a private server with higher exp rates). i made a barb and a veno, after a few days i had both of them at lvl 100. i went straight to heavenly illusion(fb89)
    wen i did it with my barb with a heiro i could run straight in there no problem and slowly take them all out. then i got to the boss and lured it out and killed it in like 5 mins, then i went on to farm the callas(giant ball dudes next to the boss, that do all mag damage, lvl 110) the barb can take a calas with a heiro easy it just takes a long time.

    when i ran in with the veno with herc, i came to the first mob and one hit halved the health, and i couldnt heal it fast enough, after a minute of healling the mob killed my herc and one-shotted me. turns out a lvl 100 herc has 5k hp wheras a lvl 100 barb has around 15k hp.

    so dont ever think the herc is better, especially since u cant heiro a pet
  • Kotecek - Lost City
    Kotecek - Lost City Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    "And to be honest, here is more barbs then Hercs.."

    Come to LC then b:victory Still I see more barbs then Hercs b:pleased
    My chars: 97 barb, 87 cleric, 91 veno, 80 archer, 74 Blademaster, 34 Psychic, 30 Assasin, 20 Wizard, 44 Seeker, 20 Mistyc.

    ^ I have SO many personalities to play them all! b:cute

    And YAY for my Phoenix!(on THIS veno ^^) b:victory
  • Prowler - Heavens Tear
    Prowler - Heavens Tear Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Manovener - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i made a barb and a veno, after a few days i had both of them at lvl 100. i went straight to heavenly illusion(fb89)

    ...

    when i ran in with the veno with herc, i came to the first mob and one hit halved the health, and i couldnt heal it fast enough, after a minute of healling the mob killed my herc and one-shotted me.

    Something odd here - Are you sure the Hercules was level 100? And that your pet heal skill, MAG and weapon were reasonable for that level?

    Level 90 herc healed by level 90 veno can solo FB89 including all 3 bosses pretty easily (from personal experience), so your experience arouses curiosity.




    Warm Regards
    --
    Prowler (Venomancer) on Heaven's Tear

    Former Leader of QuestSeek: International level 3 faction.
  • Arravis - Lost City
    Arravis - Lost City Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Most people have said the fair bulk of reasons for why barbs are still needed over hercs, but there is one important factor no one has mentioned yet.

    Regeneration Aura, AKA Blue Bubble cleric zhen, will cut all damage taken in half. That's a pretty nice bonus to have around when tanking bosses such as Forshura in HH...Hercs will never get to taste this skill b:victory
  • Dreadmaul - Heavens Tear
    Dreadmaul - Heavens Tear Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    also... if there r no buffs... then who's gonna give other ppl hp and damage buffs..
  • Hazardus - Heavens Tear
    Hazardus - Heavens Tear Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Arravis - Lost City wrote: »
    Hercs will never get to taste this skill b:victory

    Mmmm....and a yummy skill it is too b:chuckle.
    When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=760842
  • maroc
    maroc Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    well, i am a full-vit-barb and i must say, that i like it to have a venomancer with herc in the squad. because the TT/FB run goes much faster ^^

    nether the less, how other already told, there are a couple of reasons, a herc never be as good as a barb:

    - a herc is just a pet, not a real person playing a char
    - so you will act more seriously and not only "on command"
    - ever thought about the dmg you make in higher lvl with Armageddon/ Perdition - NO herc can deal with that
    - some bosses need a tank as well, such as Lord of Percussion, General Wulord, etc ....
    - and last but not least: a herc cant give 30% more max HP ^^ and have no cute tiger form ! b:laugh

    so be patient with your barb - he will rock in higher lvl ^^

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