archer are good hitters??

ghostv
ghostv Posts: 28 Arc User
edited May 2009 in Archer
lately i was grinding a bit and i saw that a lvl 38 (same lvl as me) hitted a lot higher.b:shocked I was convinced that an acher was the second highest hitter but now i realise that im hitting not so high.

Im a pure acher so build 4 -1
is it true that a cleric hits more or is it just temporaraly.
I really need some reasuring...b:sad

greetz GhostV
Post edited by ghostv on

Comments

  • Guardgodess - Sanctuary
    Guardgodess - Sanctuary Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    archer is a DPS class (DPS damage per second)

    archer hits rapidly with a decent damage every shot
    whereas, clerics need to charge up, but their skills hit for higher damage

    but, nice archers hit more rapidly, so archers will have a much higher DPS than clerics
  • sage0nemage
    sage0nemage Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Guardgodess - Sanctuary wrote: »
    archer is a DPS class (DPS damage per second)

    archer hits rapidly with a decent damage every shot
    whereas, clerics need to charge up, but their skills hit for higher damage

    but, nice archers hit more rapidly, so archers will have a much higher DPS than clerics

    Nubcake go play cleric then say that
  • Sylvini - Heavens Tear
    Sylvini - Heavens Tear Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    A lot of an archer's DPS at higher levels comes from criticals. You don't have a sky-high Dex yet, so your critical rate is still pretty low, but you'll still be getting many more criticals than that cleric, especially with your faster attack rate.
  • Xelea - Heavens Tear
    Xelea - Heavens Tear Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Ya archers ARE good hitters.. Hit em once and they hit the floor.. (that is when you DO hit em)
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    sage0nemage wrote: »
    Nubcake go play cleric then say that

    I wonder if your issue had to do with how many seconds were involved in Guardgodess's damage per second?

    I believe clerics can out damage archers over short periods of time. And I have often felt fairly useless, being an archer -- I can contribute almost nothing except I can kill things, and everyone can kill things.

    But... because of how and when I have pulled aggro in fights, I believe I can my sustained damage exceeds most other people's near my level. (Once a cleric I was squadding with asked me: "What are you using for ammo? Atomic bombs?" And I am not even close to some other archers, in terms of how much damage I do -- for example, sarendena consistently does nearly twice my damage.)
  • Mizuoni - Dreamweaver
    Mizuoni - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,533 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    lmao atomic bombs
    dont worry sweety i like girls who 1 shot me b:chuckle
    Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
    Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
    ...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
    Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
    So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze
  • LloydAsplund - Sanctuary
    LloydAsplund - Sanctuary Posts: 3,899 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Pure tank bowbarians are the best DPS. It combines the best of both worlds, good tanking and awesome ranged DPS.
    I was early taught to work as well as play,
    My life has been one long, happy holiday;
    Full of work and full of play-
    I dropped the worry on the way-
    And God was good to me everyday.
  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Fleuri - you need to understand, Archers pull agro because of the constant attacks, which are fairly weak, when compared to a cleric.

    Take into account that a cleric can shoot out 2-3 plume shots when an archer gets out 1 deadly shot,

    Pure magical side - Archers have

    -Storm rage eagleton
    -Thunderous blast
    -Thunder shock
    -Lightning strike

    Total channelling time = 6.5, stormrage has an insane 30 second cooldown.

    Cleric magical side

    Great cyclone
    Thunderball
    Sirens kiss
    Weild thunder
    Tempest

    About 12 seconds total channelling, 8 seconds without tempest.

    That's gonna out do an archer purely magical.

    On the physical side however *throws white flag*
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • Sylvini - Heavens Tear
    Sylvini - Heavens Tear Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Umm, Mystic, my math is different from yours on those plume shots. I'm pulling from ecatomb (don't have a cleric), so feel free to correct me, but plume shot has 1.5 sec channeling and 1 sec casting, for a total of 2.5 sec per. An archer's Deadly Shot has 3 sec channeling and 0.6 sec casting, for a total of 3.6 sec. A cleric could get 1/2 way through channeling their second plume shot when the archer fires. On top of that, they both do base damage (magical for one, physical for the other) + 100% weapon + extra, but Deadly Shot has about 4X the extra of Plume Shot at lvl 10.

    A lvl 10 Take Aim only has 0.2 sec more channeling (less with demon) and adds 300% weapon instead of any extra flat damage (500% with celestial).

    Based on that, I'm guessing that over, say, 10 seconds, an archer could well out-damage a cleric, especially if he crits on one or more of those attacks.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Fleuri - you need to understand, Archers pull agro because of the constant attacks, which are fairly weak, when compared to a cleric.

    Take into account that a cleric can shoot out 2-3 plume shots when an archer gets out 1 deadly shot,

    Pure magical side - Archers have

    -Storm rage eagleton
    -Thunderous blast
    -Thunder shock
    -Lightning strike

    Total channelling time = 6.5, stormrage has an insane 30 second cooldown.

    Cleric magical side

    Great cyclone
    Thunderball
    Sirens kiss
    Weild thunder
    Tempest

    About 12 seconds total channelling, 8 seconds without tempest.

    That's gonna out do an archer purely magical.

    On the physical side however *throws white flag*


    3 shots?


    Firstly, an archer would deal more damage by simply firing off normal shots.


    Archers have less time between shots, and a tendency to critical more shots.


    Secondly, deadly shot has a 3.0 second channel time with a 0.6 cast time. Your plume shot is a 1.5 second channel and 1.0 cast (2.5 seconds for a full revolution.) You'll be in the middle of channelling your second shot when deadly shot is released.




    Yes, single shots from archers arent as powerful as cleric spells. There is a good reason too... we require less channel and cast times for our skills. Clerics require more. The more channel time the more damage in a single shot.



    However, if you distribute the damage over a equal interval for comparison, archers clearly deal more damage.



    Clerics > Archers @ dealing damage at a single instant in time


    Archers > Clerics @ dealing damage when comparing it over an equal lifetime (ex. 2,3,4...n seconds)
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Pure magical side - Archers have

    -Storm rage eagleton
    -Thunderous blast
    -Thunder shock
    -Lightning strike

    Total channelling time = 6.5, stormrage has an insane 30 second cooldown.

    And archers have sage frost arrow, for pure magical damage.

    But archers also have impure magical damage (blazing arrow, vicious arrow, sage-free frost arrows, and apothecary). I think most of my shots deliver impure magical damage.

    But I do not think this matters, for most people?
  • Annor - Heavens Tear
    Annor - Heavens Tear Posts: 330 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I don't know why you broke it down into magic and physical... this seems fairly irrelevant. Archer is a physical damage class, our magic attacks are merely there to give us a little more utility. The only place having a strong magic attack is really relevant is when dealing with BMs/Barbs... which is a little off-topic.
    Meek with words, abrupt with arrows.
  • Suiryujin - Sanctuary
    Suiryujin - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    only time i ever use lightning is in PvP or when i want to mess around abit usually. hell i dont even bother using lightning on increased defense mobs, i just aimlow it>.>

    stormrage eagleon is a joke, shouldnt even be considered.

    overall archers do much much more dmg than cleric if u consider it in the bigger picture. i outdamaged a lvl 80+ cleric when i was only like 75 on the wood element boss for fb59. no i didnt have insane weapon, just +4 W&C with 1 flawless garnet with bracer of bloodmoon using the cheapest shot on pure dex build. i think the cleric had a glaive of divinity with +5 or +6 on it. cleric was not self healing, we had a 2nd cleric doing that
    My body is made of swords.
    Iron is my blood, and glass is my heart.
    I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated,
    Without once retreating,
    Nor once being understood.
    Always alone, intoxicated with victory on the hill of swords.
    Therefore, there is no meaning to that life.
    Perhaps this body is nothing but a sword itself.
  • ghostv
    ghostv Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Now ive heart here many things about an archer but

    What are archer needed for... ( im mean a barb good tank a cleric healt support,...)

    is it just support? or can they handel themselfes solo
    and even even do solo pking?
    are they good in pking and so are a class to watch out for in arena's or TW??

    and what are there strongest points of being an archer

    im looking end game can they beat the rest or do they struggle...
  • Sylvini - Heavens Tear
    Sylvini - Heavens Tear Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Archers and Barbs are generally considered the kings of PvP. Barbs for their endurance (and late-game damage) and archers for their insane hit rates, dodge rates, and critical rates.

    Archers can grind solo and quest solo reasonably well, though we're better when partnered with a cleric or tank. Don't even think about soloing any bosses or dungeons until you're levels above them.

    In dungeons, archers are DDers, and Sharpened Tooth Arrow is a godsend against bosses.
  • Fallenangelx - Heavens Tear
    Fallenangelx - Heavens Tear Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    archers generally do less damage than other classes but their speed of atk and their crit rates makes it so that overtime, archers will do more damage than any other class.

    barbs in general are tank classes while bms are half tank and dps, we do less damage compared to wiz, clerics and venos but their channeling time taken into consideration, we will always steal agro from them.
  • Sylvini - Heavens Tear
    Sylvini - Heavens Tear Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    My archer regularly does more dmg than my veno, who averages 10 lvls higher. This stopped being true when I got my TT weapon on my Veno, but took up again recently with the new lvl 50 Supply box bow.
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Clerics > Archers @ dealing damage at a single instant in time

    Archers > Clerics @ dealing damage when comparing it over an equal lifetime (ex. 2,3,4...n seconds)

    Totally agree.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    I broke it down to magical because classes with + hp have + phy defence.

    Also the thread was "Are archers good hitters" No they are not, the speed compensates for the lack of power.

    @Angellicdiety, Plume shot has less than 1.5 because Arcane gives alot of - channeling.

    I doh'd b4
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I broke it down to magical because classes with + hp have + phy defence.

    Also the thread was "Are archers good hitters" No they are not, the speed compensates for the lack of power.

    @Angellicdiety, Plume shot has less than 1.5 because Arcane gives alot of - channeling.

    I doh'd b4

    So what if you have channelling.

    Here, lets take it through this scenario:

    -50% channelling b:shocked

    Plume Shot: 0.75 second channel 1.0 second cast


    1.75 seconds per shot.


    You would be channelling for your third shot when deadly shot is released.


    It is impossible for a cleric to release 3 plumes before a deadly shot is released. To do so you have to have close to 100% channeling reduction.






    You need to understand, that we arent debating that a cleric deals more damage in a single shot.

    We are saying that archers deal more damage within an interval of time. Much, much more than a cleric could ever hope to deal given long intervals - I might add. With a 0.63 (crossbow) interval between attacks we can let off two regular arrows before you can release 1 plume shot. If any of those shots critical, the difference becomes even larger.
  • ghostv
    ghostv Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    im getting a great feeling that ive chose for acher
    ive doing some thinking an archer can hit at a greater distance than a cleric so if the cleric whats to kill me, he getsfirst hit whit psysical damage ( ive heart because they are jusing arcane armor thy are weak agains psysical)
    so the cleric will drop first( considerd same level) + eventual stuns slows and knocks and the archer will totally crush him

    but what are the characters that i need to look out for...

    im also thinking that this is the same for a cleric as a mage( archer long range them)
    barb bm's and veno can archers counter with some mage arrows
    am i thinking i the right way or does it work differently

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