Marrows

Stophle - Heavens Tear · April 2009

This is not so much a "Max it or leave it at lvl 3?" question as it is a "Use it or no?" question. I am doing PvE and honestly I cannot see a real use for these skills. So I want to outline what I see and then find out what your thoughts are on it.

This is why I am not so sure I want to spend any points into these:

1) If I sacrifice any of my already low as heck Magic Defense to get more Physical Defense then if anything casts on me when I am not expecting it I am going to be in worlds of pain.

2) The Magic Def Enhancing Marrow is all but worthless because there are so very few pure Magical Monsters and even those hang out with Physical ones. (And even if I could time perfectly lag or frame drop would assuredly make me miss the critical moment to switch Marrows many times)

3) Casting this thing again and again, especially against Bosses and tough monsters, will lower my DPS by making me perform a non-damaging action

4) I am never going to have much MP (Obviously leaving Magic at 5) and wasting some of it on these things every 30 seconds seems like it would be a considerable drain on my limited supply I need for my attacks.

5) The Duration of these things is insanely short so I am likely to run out of that extra Def that is saving my hide just when I need it most making this skill a very bad thing to rely on and thus being unreliable it is also far less worth spending points in.

So in the experience of other BM's am I on the right track here? If not could you give me some solid reasoning as to why not?

Phoenix - Dreamweaver · April 2009

1) If I sacrifice any of my already low as heck Magic Defense to get more Physical Defense then if anything casts on me when I am not expecting it I am going to be in worlds of pain.
If you pay attention to your surroundings and know your targets, nothing will cast on you when you aren't expecting it. Even if they do, Marrow Magical is instant cast...

2) The Magic Def Enhancing Marrow is all but worthless because there are so very few pure Magical Monsters and even those hang out with Physical ones. (And even if I could time perfectly lag or frame drop would assuredly make me miss the critical moment to switch Marrows many times)
At higher levels, if you get adds they will primarily cast magic at you from a distance until you get into melee range. Marrow Magical is best for these times, when you can't keep 2-4 casters stunned indefinitely and have to eat magic damage. The reduced spell damage from 2+ mobs is worth the additional melee damage you'll take from one target. In 1v1 PVE, you should never really need Marrow Magical, though, unless you're targeting mobs that only cast. (There's a few types like that in the 50s.)

3) Casting this thing again and again, especially against Bosses and tough monsters, will lower my DPS by making me perform a non-damaging action
Cast it before you fight any regular monster, and it should last 1-2 fights, not requiring you to interrupt your 'DPS'. In boss fights, the reduced damage you take from AoEs is worth the whole half a second you have to stop attacking to get it off every 30 seconds. If the boss doesn't AoE, don't cast it.

4) I am never going to have much MP (Obviously leaving Magic at 5) and wasting some of it on these things every 30 seconds seems like it would be a considerable drain on my limited supply I need for my attacks.
MP Charms are your friends. They're cheaper than mana pots. The same applies to 50/100 mp regen apothecary powders. I have 3 Magic at 75, and over 1.4k MP. Your MP bar will live, trust me.

5) The Duration of these things is insanely short so I am likely to run out of that extra Def that is saving my hide just when I need it most making this skill a very bad thing to rely on and thus being unreliable it is also far less worth spending points in.
30 seconds isn't "insanely short". Marrows are not there to save your hide right when you need it. That's what Diamond Sutra/pots/meds are for. Marrows are a preventative measure designed to ensure you don't reach that point to begin with, or reach it slower than you normally would. You'll save more MP, and lose less XP from needless deaths, using Marrows than you would not using them.

That's leaving aside PvP aspects, in which they both become more important. In PvE alone, you're going to regret never leveling a marrow when the time comes for you to start AoE grinding phys only mobs. Get 3~6 Marrow magical (to be capped 90+), and cap Marrow Physical. They are not useless skills, you cannot find a good reason not to use them no matter how much rationalization you put them through, and you will get your returns on them.

Axemanek - Heavens Tear · April 2009

I think marrows are great!
and with the aura of the golden bell, and then using the magical marrow, it works wonders as i already have an increased physical defense, and then we get an increased magical defense aswell!...plus the cast time is next to nothing so I really dont see what you are complaining about...
xD

Alucard - Dreamweaver · April 2009

1) Panic Button! Magic marrow and sutra and fly if it's really bad. Otherwise, stun the thing you're already attacking then kill it and it's your choice to use your magic marrow or not.

2) There may be few pure magic mobs but the ones that are really, really suck. If you don't have a magic marrow your hp will go down sooooo quickly. Light armour+Magic Marrow= Not too shabby magic def and with your bell buff leveled your phys def won't be that bad either if you have them both on your hot bar it's easy to switch when you get hit by something else.

3) It's instant cast and if you're soloing, you'll save much more hp with the marrow, meaning you won't need to use your sutra as much, which would save time, no?

4) They only cost 20mp. And the money you'll be saving on HP pots/charms will easily make up for it.

5) How many of your fights actually last 30 seconds? You should be able to kill 1 or two mobs in that time, for single target. As for AoE grinding, you'll take a substantially smaller DPS from mobs because they're ganging up on you. I suggest, pull mobs for about 10 seconds, (give or take) pop your marrow and then kill them all in the 30 seconds. You should be able to do it.

nocturnalbastard · April 2009

I find myself using Alter Marrow Phys a lot. Magic not so much.

I would definitely level Alter Marrow Phys to max. A few levels of Magic are fine but since you're pure phys, I would leave it alone cause you would sacrifice all your real defense for magic which is your weakness anyway.

Stophle - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Firstly, thank you all for your responses.

You have made some arguements like the AoE thing with Bosses. For instance Stormhorn's Nuke certainly can be a very reasonable arguement for the use of the Magic Marrow even if it is a pain to keep casting due to just how utterly devestating that nuke is.

As for fight time one monster usually does not last 30 secs but if it is an Elite, Increased Def, or Increased Life it may last that long or longer.

I agree about the power of Apothecary items as they are very useful and far superior to Pots. I refuse to "buy" pots due to how crappy they really are and how easily you can find them laying on the ground from grinding. I also have never and will never be a Charm user. I am very good at keeping myself just barely alive but fighting that way would burn through Charms like a pack of cigs for a chain smoker LOL. I will save my $ and just meditate from time to time thanks. They just do not fit my play style very well. (aside from small cheap ones during boss fights)

So in conclusion I will get them when/if I have spare SP (<-- Yeah because we all know that happens...Uh huuuh) to throw into non-essential skills but otherwise keep them on low priority.

Phoenix - Dreamweaver · May 2009

Stophle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I also have never and will never be a Charm user. I am very good at keeping myself just barely alive but fighting that way would burn through Charms like a pack of cigs for a chain smoker LOL. I will save my $ and just meditate from time to time thanks. They just do not fit my play style very well. (aside from small cheap ones during boss fights)

That's a shame, because charms eventually become mandatory if you decide to do anything beyond 1v1 PVE grinding. Moreover, it's possible to keep yourself above 50% in normal grinding without much difficulty with diamond sutra, making charms a contingency plan for when sh*t hits the fan.

Your time, your game, your choice. I just wouldn't advise you to PVP ever.

Averian - Lost City · May 2009

I am like him and I dont use Charms and as a sword BM, I specialise in 1 vs 1 so yeah. However, I suggest that you get charms later on in the lvl maybe 60-70 cause they really help later on. A gold charm is 400k? I suppose in lost city it is and so it is really expensive later on in the lvl. Cause at higher lvls, your repair cost each time would be like 100k? If you dont go to town for like 20-40% or something? Thats what i heard so what is 400k to you?

Oldbear - Sanctuary · May 2009

Stophle - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree about the power of Apothecary items as they are very useful and far superior to Pots. I refuse to "buy" pots due to how crappy they really are and how easily you can find them laying on the ground from grinding. I also have never and will never be a Charm user. I am very good at keeping myself just barely alive but fighting that way would burn through Charms like a pack of cigs for a chain smoker LOL. I will save my $ and just meditate from time to time thanks. They just do not fit my play style very well. (aside from small cheap ones during boss fights)
So in conclusion I will get them when/if I have spare SP (<-- Yeah because we all know that happens...Uh huuuh) to throw into non-essential skills but otherwise keep them on low priority.

Let me try predicting your future. During the game some of your views change. So in the middle game you:

1)While you still keep thinking apothecary items are superior you've found that looking for herbs to make them takes considerable time and you've started to save them for occasions where you have to unexpectedly hurry up a quest. On normal grind you shall use pots and unless you're charm user you shall keep at least 20-30 MP pots around because they feed sutra skill.
2) You ARE charm user. it just came to you when opening the Beginner's box (or whatever the thing's called) you made your next+5 levels opened the box and whoah? MP 90000 charm. Sure you have put it on and now some time later it's rather worn. Will you buy another? You hesitate saying no.
3) You still save your real money. You know now that in-game coin buy you EVERYTHING you need. You make money by taking one-man army quest finish it within 15-20min and collect 30K worth items or so. If you've learned how to save you've put on a side a considerable amount of money. Soon you'll be millionaire.
4) You've said yourself by now "**** the meditation" you've discovered that quests like one-man army will pay for your armor damage and pots and leave you profit 20-30K in each run. You're well in + side and when properly stocked you don't have to stop ever (almost) for meditating. Quest gets done faster and you kinda like the "rush". That's why yo have now updated LV5-6 or so both marrow skills. You see that when using marrow they hurt you 20-30dmg less per each hit. Of course you use it.

Harukie - Lost City · May 2009

Averian - Lost City wrote: »

If you dont go to town for like 20-40% or something? ?

Im only lvl 61... and I do that, so I dont get a huge 50k repair bill...

and as much for marrow, Im a lvl 61 Fist BM. with a full, pretty good light armour gear. with cleric magic-res buff and AMM I have 4,8k in almost all magic ress and about 800 phy res, so magic mobs do low damage and same goes for Wizards in PvP.
So I love the skill, I use it all the time ^-^

Filet - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Harukie - Lost City wrote: »

Im only lvl 61... and I do that, so I dont get a huge 50k repair bill...

and as much for marrow, Im a lvl 61 Fist BM. with a full, pretty good light armour gear. with cleric magic-res buff and AMM I have 4,8k in almost all magic ress and about 800 phy res, so magic mobs do low damage and same goes for Wizards in PvP.
So I love the skill, I use it all the time ^-^

I think he means at least 70+ maybe 80+, when you have full TT gear. My 80+ faction mates do complain about the ridiculously high repair costs

Marrows

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