Cleric vs. Wizards
OK, i was thinkin about the "competition" between those two. What is up with that? So this is what i ask you ppl, who do u think is better, and why. Also, whatever you say, im not gonna judge u no it or say anything more. As they say "If you can't beat em, join em"
Post edited by asim93 on
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Cleric is better cuz of heals and a physcial attack and stay ahead until lv100 when mages get the epic buff (mansomething) then it gets even (or even ahead) mages are for people who want to attack instead of healing (ppl hate FAC DX) and don't want a archer (and arrows)Casters FTWb:victory0
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What do you mean by better?
Gives more fun to be played? Is easier to be played? Is more challenging? Does better at duels? Kills mobs faster? Allows You to achieve bigger record on crit damage? Is in greater demand as a squad member and for what? Heals better? Can bring potions from the town faster (the only role wizards seem to be suitable for)?0 -
Pirodar - Sanctuary wrote: »What do you mean by better?
Gives more fun to be played? Is easier to be played? Is more challenging? Does better at duels? Kills mobs faster? Allows You to achieve bigger record on crit damage? Is in greater demand as a squad member and for what? Heals better? Can bring potions from the town faster (the only role wizards seem to be suitable for)?
They're (wizards) pretty good at stealing aggro too. Esp. on elemental bosses.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
By "better," if you meant more challenging, Wizard is better. If you meant anything other than more challenging, Cleric is better.0
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Ah right. We steal aggro quite well too but not necessarily better. At least some of us don't try to do it at any cost, like all archers I've seen. Clerics have it much easier here. They can always cast ironheart in between their attack spells so they don't steal aggro, are busy all the time and it doesn't look stupid. We have to endure the itch to press buttons0
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Pirodar - Sanctuary wrote: »Ah right. We steal aggro quite well too but not necessarily better. At least some of us don't try to do it at any cost, like all archers I've seen. Clerics have it much easier here. They can always cast ironheart in between their attack spells so they don't steal aggro, are busy all the time and it doesn't look stupid. We have to endure the itch to press buttons
I'm the total opposite. I need to stop my habit of watching TV while tanking bosses. I'm also lazy so I don't like to press buttons (yes, i dont like to hit f8, which is flesh ream b:chuckle). Surprisingly, my squad doesnt wipe too often.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
wizard ownz
i can take on a cleric 5 lvls above me and lose...but that cleric only has like 300 health left (if vit cleric)
FAC die faster b:chuckle FoW 2 hit b:laugh
wizards hit hard though and if you love seeing big numbers, play a wizard.
made a 7.8k crit today on fb 19 untamed boss (rend razorjaw or something like that) and i was like wtf. it wasnt sparked or anything. it just crit b:shocked
wizard is also a nice challenge until lvl 40 it gets bit boring until 49 when you have new toys to play with b:chuckleSins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »wizards hit hard though and if you love seeing big numbers, play a wizard.
made a 7.8k crit today on fb 19 untamed boss (rend razorjaw or something like that) and i was like wtf. it wasnt sparked or anything. it just crit
My regular pyrogram and gush hits for about 6k now and sandstorm does 11k on water mobs. What's a big deal about it? Holly **** does it really turn You on?
But what makes You think only wizards can do that? Have You ever seen cleric's skills? Look at ecatomb. Plume Shot is equivalent to pyrogram (in sage version it's stronger), The cyclone is an exact copy of gush, razor feathers is stronger than stone rain and additionally it's AoE. Thunderball is stronger than pitfall and crown of flames. Wield Thunder may be weaker than Sandstorm but in case of full mag cleric it's stronger than LA wizard's sandstorm. Similar story with Tempest and Black Ice Dragon or at least Tempest and mountain sieze. Now take into account that clerics have a debuff that reduces mobs resistance by 30% and can buff themselves at any time.0 -
Pirodar - Sanctuary wrote: »My regular pyrogram and gush hits for about 6k now and sandstorm does 11k on water mobs. What's a big deal about it? Holly **** does it really turn You on?
But what makes You think only wizards can do that? Have You ever seen cleric's skills? Look at ecatomb. Plume Shot is equivalent to pyrogram (in sage version it's stronger), The cyclone is an exact copy of gush, razor feathers is stronger than stone rain and additionally it's AoE. Thunderball is stronger than pitfall and crown of flames. Wield Thunder may be weaker than Sandstorm but in case of full mag cleric it's stronger than LA wizard's sandstorm. Similar story with Tempest and Black Ice Dragon or at least Tempest and mountain sieze. Now take into account that clerics have a debuff that reduces mobs resistance by 30% and can buff themselves at any time.
They really gave Wizards the short end of the stick. All those different attack skills... they're basically different element versions of the same set clerics have. They're just redundant. It's just trading cleric's utility skills for redundant attack skills.0 -
There is no competition.
To say we're better at 100 is a joke.
Manifest virtue is a lame skill that gives you an average of 200% extra magic attack for 30 seconds which does not stack with sparks, and itself costs a spark to cast.
Whats worse is it has a 5 minute cooldown.
If it stacked with spark, then a manifest virtue, frostblade, then sage/demon spark would have made it one of the best level 100 skills ever.
But here in pwi, we've got the craziest **** not stacking with each other that should have to begin with.
Let's name a few shall we?
Heaven's Wrath not stacking with spark (in fact it overwrites the spark's additional damage. wtf?)
Heaven's Wrath canceling our essential sutra
Cleric buffs canceling and overwriting apothecary regen pots.
And now, Manifest virtue gets overwritten by spark.
I think we've got a problem.0 -
Lol, it's still better than Cleric's lvl 100 Elven Boon though, 100% weapon dmg plus 1111 metal dmg. 15% chance to seal target for 2 seconds, 50% chance of recovering 500 hp. b:chuckle
Then there is Venomancer's Arcane Antinomy. Inflict *physical* damage equal to 50% of caster's max mana. Slow opponent movement by 70%, slow channel speed by 90%.
That's half a caster class's MP going into your HP, as physical damage, while crippling you. It'll mess up a wizard in a major way, regardless of damage output.
Then there's Belittle, aimed at physical classes.
The lvl 100 skills are terribly unbalanced among classes. It's as if the developer didn't even bother with balancing and figured it won't affect anyone anyway.0 -
I give u the answer
PWI GM and developers HATE Wizards b:chuckle0 -
well evenat end game I have to say clerics are hard to beat....still clerics can beat harder a good wizard but a wizard must have full chi to have a chance to win..because he just keps healing himself and its anoying...
BtW archers are much more mindless than wizards because arcers just shoot shoot and never stop to or to take a little break and they will get aggro...they die...i saw many many archers like this but I didn't saw near as much wizards doing the same at higher lvls.0 -
drag0nball wrote: »BtW archers are much more mindless than wizards because arcers just shoot shoot and never stop to or to take a little break and they will get aggro...they die...i saw many many archers like this but I didn't saw near as much wizards doing the same at higher lvls.
Ever thought that Wizards can't steal the aggro? Slow attacking rate and no criticals, archers pull twice as much hits as a wizard and do more criticals than they can count, if you ask me they do surpass Wizard's dmg on the long run by far.
Wizards are very underpowered in PW, live with it. Wich is something surprising and annoying judging by how they handled the balance between the rest of the classes..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Let me repeat it again. STEALING AGGRO DOES NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUAL DAMAGE OR DPS. High critical rate allows archer to do very high spike damage with 2-3 and even more crits in a row - this is what stealing agro. But on the long run... they are similar. And wizards have sutra which delivers a spike so high archers can only dream of; with it, steling agro is very easy. Hell, wizards are one of the few who can kill high level barb 1vs1, do you really believe they are underpowered?Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »Ever thought that Wizards can't steal the aggro? <...>
Wizards are very underpowered in PW, live with it.--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0 -
Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »Let me repeat it again. STEALING AGGRO DOES NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUAL DAMAGE OR DPS. High critical rate allows archer to do very high spike damage with 2-3 and even more crits in a row - this is what stealing agro. But on the long run... they are similar. And wizards have sutra which delivers a spike so high archers can only dream of; with it, steling agro is very easy. Hell, wizards are one of the few who can kill high level barb 1vs1, do you really believe they are underpowered?
I knew you would mention sutra, too preddictable.... 8 out of 10 9x Wizards say that Wizards suck. Look in the wizard forums how many "wizards suck" threads are there. That's what makes me say that they are underpowered, you're welcome to dissagree on that but I need something better in order to change my opinion.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
well Mister Wizard hater...they say such because they won;t and cannot refine their weapons and armors...thats why they suck..f they do they wont suck....and only 1-2 ppl telling they suck at lvl 90..and maybe they are not that talented to play a game..as I said...the player is much more important than the class...
And many skills are and many options..so high the possibility to make mistakes within spells and kiting or such... I saw many wizards dueling very very bad...they are starting with a sandstorm...or glacial...its very pathetic...they may be strong spells but at pvp u wotn have time to do that just like that... thats why many players say they suck...and fighting without chi is again another lost battle
And another strange thing is when I fought an easier boss so I never was worried if I steal aggro...and I hit spelover spell..and an archer at my lvl never could steal agro from me... And it was only normal attack without spark or sutra o whatever....
Actually the archers cirtical hits match the wizards normal hit as I experienced it if the wepaon is the same.... And I am not talking about your lvl 66 wizards and archers...as you are...
I couldn;t eighter tosteal aggro at that lvl
Just look how many archers hhave +8 weapon and wizards have at themots a +5 weapon at your server....
U never was counting that.0 -
Well, a cleric trying to learn to Wizards how to play?Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »I knew you would mention sutra, too preddictable.... 8 out of 10 9x Wizards say that Wizards suck. Look in the wizard forums how many "wizards suck" threads are there. That's what makes me say that they are underpowered, you're welcome to dissagree on that but I need something better in order to change my opinion.
You make me laugh dude, wizard are like venomancers, to shine they need to spend money on they gear. If those fail wizard you are talking about spent 200$ on they gear like nix/herc veno did, they wouldn't talk like that.
And remember this is a forum, and as it is, you'll always found lot of people QQing for this or that. I like my wizard like it is, even if dev made some mistakes. And the only thing I realy want to see is a increased chance of rooting target with hailstorm/pitfall. It's to easy to target running away from us.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
well Mister Wizard hater...
I'll get used to that title one day..they say such because they won;t and cannot refine their weapons and armors...thats why they suck..f they do they wont suck....and only 1-2 ppl telling they suck at lvl 90..and maybe they are not that talented to play a game..as I said...the player is much more important than the class...
So according to you all players suck except the ones that spend 300+ USD in the game to heavily refine their items. Very... err call it whatever you want.
Apart from that, will the difference between a full +12 Cleric and a full +12 Wizard change? Won't it be the same as it is for a not-refined-at-all cleric and not-refined-at-all wizard?Just look how many archers hhave +8 weapon and wizards have at themots a +5 weapon at your server....
U never was counting that.
*sigh* it had never to do with items.... just logic.Well, a cleric trying to learn to Wizards how to play?
I don't recall giving you any lessons or is my english that bad that i did so and didn't notice?You make me laugh dude, wizard are like venomancers, to shine they need to spend money on they gear. If those fail wizard you are talking about spent 200$ on they gear like nix/herc veno did, they wouldn't talk like that.
So a Cleric or Barb or BM or any other class won't "shine"(that word gets so old, full of hopes and stuff...) if they spend the same amount of money? My apologies, I didn't know that
Who's laughing really.And remember this is a forum, and as it is, you'll always found lot of people QQing for this or that. I like my wizard like it is, even if dev made some mistakes. And the only thing I realy want to see is a increased chance of rooting target with hailstorm/pitfall. It's to easy to target running away from us.
In forums you will mainly see the drawbacks/complains of a game/class/whatever, that's a fact. Thing is that there are about 10 90+ wizards in all the official servers. That's why it's sad to see such high lvls admiting they suck and it's sad for the game generally.
Now go on and say whatever you want, I'm open to any flaming or arguing or judging, just make it have sense.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »I'll get used to that title one day..
So according to you all players suck except the ones that spend 300+ USD in the game to heavily refine their items. Very... err call it whatever you want.
Apart from that, will the difference between a full +12 Cleric and a full +12 Wizard change? Won't it be the same as it is for a not-refined-at-all cleric and not-refined-at-all wizard?
*sigh* it had never to do with items.... just logic.
I don't recall giving you any lessons or is my english that bad that i did so and didn't notice?
So a Cleric or Barb or BM or any other class won't "shine"(that word gets so old, full of hopes and stuff...) if they spend the same amount of money? My apologies, I didn't know that
Who's laughing really.
In forums you will mainly see the drawbacks/complains of a game/class/whatever, that's a fact. Thing is that there are about 10 90+ wizards in all the official servers. That's why it's sad to see such high lvls admiting they suck and it's sad for the game generally.
Now go on and say whatever you want, I'm open to any flaming or arguing or judging, just make it have sense.
Blah blah. Its not worth going through the whole thing. This whole thing has been rehashed a bunch of times. Go look up the lvl 100 wiz duel and watch it. Now tell me how many people you see playing thier class with that level of skill. Clerics CAN be 1 shotted. Wiz's CAN be 1 shotted. Its about who's got chi and the most practice. Your build doesn't really provide you much room to work with and skill choices high end don't really matter either besides sage\demon. Everything maxed attacked from behind with no warning...which class is going to survive? Probably neither, but the wiz might sneak in a distance shrink to die 26m away.0 -
Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »Blah blah. Its not worth going through the whole thing. This whole thing has been rehashed a bunch of times. Go look up the lvl 100 wiz duel and watch it. Now tell me how many people you see playing thier class with that level of skill. Clerics CAN be 1 shotted. Wiz's CAN be 1 shotted. Its about who's got chi and the most practice. Your build doesn't really provide you much room to work with and skill choices high end don't really matter either besides sage\demon. Everything maxed attacked from behind with no warning...which class is going to survive? Probably neither, but the wiz might sneak in a distance shrink to die 26m away.
That's true too.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Well Mikel_oru actualy a + 12 wizard and a + 12 reifned cleric is another story...
U know if you have + 2 or + 5 refied both clerics and wizard its not enough...
taht refining gives HP wich is to give more time to defeat the other classes. And everbybody knows that wizards hit hardest but the channeling is too slow and they have no time to hit a 2-3 spells...only 1 if thy are lucky...And many times they are NOT . but as u see a wizard needs only 3-4 spells and the other class is defeated...However no time to do that thats why need refine... Even with + 12 cleric the wizard may not win so easily but still he wont be put down that easy eighter...He canto heal hiself so good but he can use pots...thats a backup...and if he has so much HP so he can wait till you sleep him or do u whatever u want...and after than when allskills used and its on cooldown he can use the ultimate comboes..sleep., debuff with undine, silenece and 5 spells in 8 secs and u cant hit because u are silenced stunned or whaterver..however must have full chi with 3 sparks and a smart wizard and refined gears too to can stand thsoe atatcks before he use that combo...0 -
Mikel_oru stay out of wizard forums.
PWI is to young to show things. Go face a wizard with moonshade mirage and channeling gear. I've seen things from pw-cn, somes wizards manage to get -50% channeling or more reduction. There is even one with -99%, yeah you read right, -99%. This mean instant casting. Try to face someone with that power. Read this
Is PWI wizard's have rank 8 gear? Is one of them have sirabansho? Is there a PWI wizard who learnt 99% of his celestial skills? When all those conditions will be there we'll see if wizard sucks. We have what? One lvl 101 on the 5 servers right now no? We have 3 level 100 wizards? And only with those few exemples you can say a entire class suck?
Really, don't talk when you don't know what you're talking about. Seriously, think and gather infos before posting **** on the forum.
Some links to show you "sucking" wizards:
Lvl 101 wizard guide from PW-CN
Demon wizard **** a nix veno
Demon wizard dueling a BM
You want more? go google it, and stop posting in our forum.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Agreed with the above poster.
When we see real late-game wizard (level 100+ with rank8 gear, -80% + channeling, +12 refined with stone), we'll see how it goes. It probably won't happen before another year, but it will eventually. I'm pretty sure at that point wizards will come at the top. Why ? The balancing of the wizard's spike damage is the channel time. Remove that and we get unbalanced. At least that's what I think, and that is why I keep playing my wizard (Also because I love it). I might be wrong, but I don't care. In the end its just a game and I don't care if I'm not the best. Also we're still the best class to kill catapul pullers in TW, so hey, we still have a job b:laugh
Edit: One word about cleric doing as much damage as a mage. They don't, because if they do (FAC), they won't be able to do their REAL job. Also having only 1 element damage and no real mean of escape means they are even easier to kill than wizard. (don't give me the buffs bull****, any PVPer gets buffed before any real fighting). At least wizards have an additional defense buff and distance shrink.
- Amy0 -
You still don't get it. Ok a wiz can get 99% - chaneling, a Cleric cannot? I didn't know that, excuse my ignorance. The Cleric will pwn your **** with physical dmg while it can tank Wizard's spells, wtf. only Wizards can get to 101 or get full +12 or.. or.. or..
Maybe you should both take off the forums. b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
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Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »You still don't get it. Ok a wiz can get 99% - chaneling, a Cleric cannot? I didn't know that, excuse my ignorance. The Cleric will pwn your **** with physical dmg while it can tank Wizard's spells, wtf. only Wizards can get to 101 or get full +12 or.. or.. or..
Maybe you should both take off the forums. b:victory
Your missing a bit here yourself. The contention is that wiz spikes are higher, that the thing slowing the DPS etc of the class is the massive channel times. Wizzys gain ALOT from - Channel.
While the cleric could get -channel gear, they can't makeup the difference in dmg that our spikes give. So clerics gain less from -Channel
The cleric physical damage thing is exactly the same thing that the class faces from every other class. It is handled several ways.
1) Stone Barrier to double our phys def
2) sharding+refining.
3) 1-shot the offending class.
4) Sneak up behind AND 2-3 shot the offending class.
5) Distance shrink and sneak back later.
6) In the event of death, get several friends and come back and use step 4.
Now ffs, kill this topic or go read the OTHER 1xxxx threads on it. When we have a fully outfitted 1xx wiz and 1xx cleric we'll let them duke it out and then we can all sit around and heckle each other. Otherwise, its all just speculation.0 -
Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »You still don't get it. Ok a wiz can get 99% - chaneling, a Cleric cannot? I didn't know that, excuse my ignorance. The Cleric will pwn your **** with physical dmg while it can tank Wizard's spells, wtf. only Wizards can get to 101 or get full +12 or.. or.. or..
Maybe you should both take off the forums. b:victory
you're missing one little detail as Rule said.
Look on ecatomb and the skills and dmg output for cleric and Wizz.
Cleric owns a wizz pre-60. After 60 gets harder. After 70 becomes a headache.After 80 with channel gear on ballance begins to change. At that point if the wizz has the first draw, there is no question who wins. If the cleric has the first draw he has high chances of win.
At lvl 90+ if u'r geared up properly every class becomes a 1 shot ( 2nd shot for finisher if needed)____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Physical damage? Did you look at the link I gave you? Did you see the lvl101 wizard getting the same 8,5k pdef and mdef and 8,7Khp to tank the damage? Did you see the demon wizard tanking the phoenix like it was nothing?Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »You still don't get it. Ok a wiz can get 99% - chaneling, a Cleric cannot? I didn't know that, excuse my ignorance. The Cleric will pwn your **** with physical dmg while it can tank Wizard's spells, wtf. only Wizards can get to 101 or get full +12 or.. or.. or..
Maybe you should both take off the forums. b:victory
Did you see the demon wizard tanking the BM attack while being stunned?
And you'r talking about physical damage? You prouve us you don't know ANYTHING about endgame. Do you know there is apothercary potion leting us tanking physical damage?
And most important, do you know at endgame that it's magic based class that hit the highest? LA wizard don't restat to pure at lvl 90 only for the damage reduction, the mdef is important too.
I will tell you one thing, go read the lvl101 wizard guide please. Make us the favor of getting the points in their totality. And take time to read our post before answering us.
Why there is always a cleric coming in wizard forum saying ****. It was Forp and now it you! Damn it...
PS: nice siggy Ursa "Don't try to protect people from their own stupidity. Idiots will always find a way to prevail" It resume pretty well this situation...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
you know what i made my decision....
im gonna be the first to get -99% channeling
BELIEVE ITb:victory
xD lmaoSins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0
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