Melee Masher idea
I had a concept for a melee masher that did a build of 4-1 Str-Dex every lvl. Armor would be high defense armor and weapons would be high damage, and armor sockets would be combo of HP mostly and Magic defense. I only just started the character and wanted to see if, in your opinions, it is worth pursueing for higher lvls, or should I convert to tank?
Post edited by r64 on
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I had a concept for a melee masher that did a build of 4-1 Str-Dex every lvl. Armor would be high defense armor and weapons would be high damage, and armor sockets would be combo of HP mostly and Magic defense. I only just started the character and wanted to see if, in your opinions, it is worth pursueing for higher lvls, or should I convert to tank?
Most will tell you to roll a BM if this is the path you want to take. Barb's are built ( mostly ) to *take* damage and don't really start dishing it out until 80-90. Even then they focus on Vit. Take a look at the guides stickied at the top here.Mark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
Yeup, our wingued friend has a point there.
We are made to tank, no one can do it better than we do and we rule at it.
It's true that I can't kill anything (not that I want too, I like my CareBear status b:cute) but it's hard for anything over 80 to take me down.
People like you to tank as much as they like clerics to heal, not DD. We're mostly team players b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
yea and if you have a cleric melee mashing can be looked as tanking. A cleric spam healing melee mashers make tankers. I mean really barbs are designed as tanks for this game and yet they could do so much damage if done right, and the right healing turns them into perfect tanks. With the damage output nothing could steal agro from them. Im still gonna run it and ill let you know how it turns out.0
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the point of it is you have to look at what a class is catered toward in this game... the classes aren't created equally in terms of stat distribution.. they get different amounts of health from each point of vit..
i'd like to see you setup a cleric as a melee tank just by having a cleric heal them.. they won't have the health or pdef to handle the hits let alone the aggro skills to hold aggro on them
barbs can do damage if done that way.. yes its true.. but a BM done the same way will most likely do more .. hence why people say roll BM... the way PWI classes are.. there really isn't that much versatility ... venos are the only ones you can really do a buncha different builds with0 -
Really you have to look at the primary role, for the case of this game, of a class in a squad. after that there are ways to optimize that role but you dont need to stict to one build. In a well structured party this build will be a usefull character, I think. We'll see how it runs as I play it.0
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Really you have to look at the primary role, for the case of this game, of a class in a squad. after that there are ways to optimize that role but you dont need to stict to one build. In a well structured party this build will be a usefull character, I think. We'll see how it runs as I play it.
Then I guess you weren't actually interested in our opinions then ( OP ).
Good luck.Mark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
it all depends on what you mean by a well structured party.. for TT a well structured party could be 5 venos with hercs and a cleric .. in which case your class as a whole would be no good b:chuckle0
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thats very true.
well so far its a lvl 13 and working pretty well solo. if you want to track progress his name is Fehrnor.0 -
Your build will work beautifully until you're lvl50. Why? Because till then a barb doesn't really tank anything and all normal world mobs are mainly physical.
Later when every mobs a caster that lands 500 hp per hit and when TT bosses can land 8.5K hits on you with their mag attack, thats when you will be hard pressed to find help.
You can by all means go this path and be a meeker DD, but sooner or later you will either restat or restart.When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
yea and if you have a cleric melee mashing can be looked as tanking. A cleric spam healing melee mashers make tankers. I mean really barbs are designed as tanks for this game and yet they could do so much damage if done right, and the right healing turns them into perfect tanks. With the damage output nothing could steal agro from them. Im still gonna run it and ill let you know how it turns out.
i am just gonna ask something...if you have little hp and low magic defense even with hp and mag def shards...how are you going to do damage? if they are going to kill you before you even get to them like in the lvl 40+ area where all the chiselers are on shattered jade shore...thats like 5 mobs attacking you at once that have magical attack and physical attack (plus a stun)...and so far all you have killed is physical mobs...and plus...you are making a barb dependant on a cleric all the time...so what...if there is no cleric friends online you are going to wait for them? are you crazy? you can't depend on everyone around you because sooner or later they are going to get sick of it.probably one of the smartest in perfect world
yet the lowest of level0 -
first off i asked for opinions because i didnt know about any of the higher level stuff, and second why do you bash ideas so far from the norm like this? I mean hell, you all are more or less screaming "you're stupid restart", at least thats what it seems like. I had a different idea and now from what was said it will turn out to be bad at higher levels, but then again no one just came out and said "higher levels were mainly magic user you need to plan for that". Well if this how new ideas get treated i wont ask for advice in the future.0
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first off i asked for opinions because i didnt know about any of the higher level stuff, and second why do you bash ideas so far from the norm like this? I mean hell, you all are more or less screaming "you're stupid restart", at least thats what it seems like. I had a different idea and now from what was said it will turn out to be bad at higher levels, but then again no one just came out and said "higher levels were mainly magic user you need to plan for that". Well if this how new ideas get treated i wont ask for advice in the future.
sorry just geez...i will put it in a better tone "it would be advisable not to do what you are doing becuase it would leave you dependant on others and it will leave you weak overall in end game" is that better?probably one of the smartest in perfect world
yet the lowest of level0 -
a little but non the less thats all i see. if a new idea doenst conform to the norm its bashed as opposed to "heres why your idea most likely wont work". I mean really go back through this thread and youll see that the idea was bashed and not explained. my highest level character is only 21 so i dont know whats at the higher levels. I even made mention of it and most people were imediately "oooo thats just not gonna work you have to do it this way". If it had been explained to me then I would agree. This build was not made to withstand magic aggros and if thats what the higher levels are then it won't work.0
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a little but non the less thats all i see. if a new idea doenst conform to the norm its bashed as opposed to "heres why your idea most likely wont work". I mean really go back through this thread and youll see that the idea was bashed and not explained. my highest level character is only 21 so i dont know whats at the higher levels. I even made mention of it and most people were imediately "oooo thats just not gonna work you have to do it this way". If it had been explained to me then I would agree. This build was not made to withstand magic aggros and if thats what the higher levels are then it won't work.
okay how about this i will explain it to the best of my ability:
if you have 4-1 dex str then you have no points for vit.
when you have no vit you have no hp regen so it will take longer to heal
when you have higher attack and little defense you will basically be like a bm high attack but little to no tanking abilities (unless axe bm but still lower hp) with little to no tanking abilites and the cleric healing everyone else (like in fbs where they shouldn't have to heal you much until the boss) so they don't die. with that even though you can hit the mobs they can hit you all the same. just it has a bigger and more drastic effect. then there are mobs that run away that have agro like the bowmen wolf things or the pyro guys. where they run in different directions but still do damage. the cost for sharding and refining everything is astronomical when all said and done plus with the repair costs for your equipment and the cost for pots or charms = an extremely to almost imposible build that will leave you broke or will leave you weak.probably one of the smartest in perfect world
yet the lowest of level0 -
ok thankyou for explaining it to me. I will now, most likely, restart the barb if I play a barb. For now I think ill just play my wizard so i can expereince the higher levels.0
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ok thankyou for explaining it to me. I will now, most likely, restart the barb if I play a barb. For now I think ill just play my wizard so i can expereince the higher levels.
glad to be of help and sorry for the "bashing"probably one of the smartest in perfect world
yet the lowest of level0 -
a little but non the less thats all i see. if a new idea doenst conform to the norm its bashed as opposed to "heres why your idea most likely wont work". I mean really go back through this thread and youll see that the idea was bashed and not explained. my highest level character is only 21 so i dont know whats at the higher levels. I even made mention of it and most people were imediately "oooo thats just not gonna work you have to do it this way". If it had been explained to me then I would agree. This build was not made to withstand magic aggros and if thats what the higher levels are then it won't work.
You asked for advice on your build. So advice was given. If you want abit more detailed explanation, then all you need is ask.
4str 1dex per level. You have great damage, good pdef, decent accuracy, lowish hp. Levels 1-30 will breeze right through, 30-50 will be slightly more difficult but manageable. 50+ is gonna be real hard.
Why? At these higher levels all mobs are aggressive.
So? you're used to handling 3-4 mobs at a time already.
But these mobs all have mag atks and they dont do physical attacks until you are in their face, literally. Now when if you aggro 3 mobs, you start attacking one, it switches to physical attacks (roughly 100-150 dmg) whilst the other two mobs don't run to you as they did at lvl30. They stay well out of reach of you and start casting their magical attacks non-stop one after the other. And those hurt (400-500 dmg if not more). Now you're taking 1k damage every 3-4seconds. As a str/dex build you wont even have time to run away, without triggering your charms or maybe even dying.
Vit doesnt just add HP. Vit adds Hp, increases HP regen, adds almost as much pdef as str and also increases magdef albeit slightly. Barbs have low magdef to begin with, so the slight increase is still significant and really helps when coupled with mag def jewelry/shards.
If I had a friend/guildie that I knew was always gonna be with me, I'd have gone the opposite of you and made a max vit build (with just enough str for armors). Would've tanked all mobs and had my friend do the damage. But I didn't want to be dependent on anyone so I rolled a tank build.When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
so many ppl have said it befor so im gonna say it again;
roll bm b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Forsakenx0 -
I think you should go with w/e build u wanna go. You must know what ur going to deal with ahead of you but if you wanna do something diff, then hell, go for it. You don't have to be like everybody else, which most barbs go tank. All im saying is do w/e you wanna do.
wow late response oO0 -
About ur build...I say go for it.ppl make it seem as though all u will ever do is tank as a barb.At higher lvls.As i've said in the past tanking is relatively easy, and doesnt need a build based upon it to be good at it.Its like a barbs second nature and its not all about u, u have to count the ppl thats keeping u alive(clerics).
Normally those that go with the basic build, (dump all in Vit and enough strength/dex for equips.) that they have looked up on forums dont kno much about there character because they have done everything by the book. Even if ur build is a epic fail. When u restat at least u will kno exactly where u need to put more points at.Depending on what u do in ur 70+ dayz.
P.S.my build= strength = 50% more then needed for axes
dex = left it at 40.
Vit = add when i feel as thou i could use some more.0 -
I know what you mean Nasty. I myself have deviated form the "book" quite frequently. I have sacrificed some vit for some more dex, since I have bezerk axes and I didn't want to miss after losing 5% HP .
Its not that you have to play it 'exactly' to the 'book', you adjust your build to your equips and needs, but to put no vit at all as the OP was suggesting is what I think makes this build fail at least over 50.When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
Yeah im all for ppl using their own brains when making their character instead of blindly following advice with no clue at all as to what theyre doing...
But just doing something different for the sake of doing something different is a dumb idea imo, but anyone is free to do as they please naturally.
anyways on the barb build, like Hazardus says - no vit on higher lvl will leave you unable to tank anything a barb is needed for, for example the drumboss in TT 1-2 will oneshot you if you miss alacrity.
Im also not a fan of adding more dex then needed, a point in dex doesnt give you much benefit compared to vit or strength, acc can easily be corrected with gear0 -
Bolinhas - Lost City wrote: »they like clerics to heal, not DD.
Clerics make great Damage Dealers. Don't believe me? Roll one, level it to 90, and see how kickass you are in PVP.0 -
I have been reading your posts and experiencing the problems mentioned. Pots have become rather expensive in the quantities I was buyin them so heres the build I've corrected it to:
20 Str
6 Dex
4 Vit
every 10 lvls.
more along the lines of the hybrid, but still maintaining my core ideal. I now have 1k hp, or close to it. I just finished my FB 19 and got the weapon. I hit 205 was the lowest with a regular hit. 467 with mighty swing and 824 with a crit with the skill. This is the layout I will continue with and we'll see how it works out.
Thanks for the advice and comments posted.0 -
I have been reading your posts and experiencing the problems mentioned. Pots have become rather expensive in the quantities I was buyin them so heres the build I've corrected it to:
20 Str
6 Dex
4 Vit
every 10 lvls.
more along the lines of the hybrid, but still maintaining my core ideal. I now have 1k hp, or close to it. I just finished my FB 19 and got the weapon. I hit 205 was the lowest with a regular hit. 467 with mighty swing and 824 with a crit with the skill. This is the layout I will continue with and we'll see how it works out.
Thanks for the advice and comments posted.
Er...every 10 levels is 50 pts.Mark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
well i've gotta say something.......
u say bms hit harder than barb....
the strongest bm build is axe build which needs 6 str and 1 dex every 2 lvls and rest into vit or dex......
since barbs also use axes wudnt they also require a similar build with the rest of points into vit??
so y isnt barbs damage equal 2 bms .....plz explain0 -
im not an expert on BM, but i believe axe BM isnt per se the build that deals most damage to one target, but rather good at AOE.
but you are somewhat right, even though the benefits gained of stat points are different for each class, the damage difference between an axe BM and a barb isnt that big.
the skills are still different though, and thats also a factor, as well as crit % and accuracy which is greater on BMs (less misses equals more dmg over time)0 -
Erado - Heavens Tear wrote: »im not an expert on BM, but i believe axe BM isnt per se the build that deals most damage to one target, but rather good at AOE.
but you are somewhat right, even though the benefits gained of stat points are different for each class, the damage difference between an axe BM and a barb isnt that big.
the skills are still different though, and thats also a factor, as well as crit % and accuracy which is greater on BMs (less misses equals more dmg over time)
plus the fact that their skills are easier to use overall then barbs.probably one of the smartest in perfect world
yet the lowest of level0 -
their skills are easier to use? i dunno about you but i press a button for a skill/macro same as a bm does ... barbs don't have to like.. press secret key combinations or sacrifice a chicken to get their skills to work.. b:chuckle
(note: not sure what you exactly meant by that.. and you probably didn't mean pressing a button.. but it just sounded so silly that i had to comment on it)0 -
BM is meant for dealing more damage than a barb.
A axe BM and barb would probably do the same damage per hit. In that respect they are almost identical. But:
The BM with less vit and more acc will do more damage over time (simply less misses).
The Barb with extra vit can take more beatings.
A barb gains 60% pdef with intensity (tigerform passive) but loses out on 50% weapon damage. The BM can gain the same pdef increase with golden bell without sacrificing the damage output. And then ofcourse the BMs have the alter marrows and sutras for even more defense and some HP recovery.
A barb on the other hand also gains an added 30%+30% HP, with buff and tigerform, and so that makes us more survivable. But the 60% is calculated on your base hp. So unless you've got some uber gear, you're HP boost isnt gonna be great as an attack barb (maybe you only gain 1k hp even?).
So a full str/dex barb may have almost the same attack as an axe BM, (I still believe that the same str on both a BM will still have a slightly higher attack), but due to the low HP to begin with, and combined with lower defense, the attacker barb will be wiped more easily than the BM.When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420
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