Arcane or Light?
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Fizzyy - Sanctuary
Posts: 13 Arc User
Heya im lvl 43 and im pure arcane, ive been told i should go light armour but not really sure what to go for, could someone help me out im really lost and dont wanna lvl up without knowing what to do, if im recomended to go light armour also how should i start investing my points?
Thanks heapsb:pleased
Thanks heapsb:pleased
Post edited by Fizzyy - Sanctuary on
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Arcane builds have an easier time grinding/leveling. Considering you're on a PVE server, stay Arcane.Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0
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Kkk thanks bud0
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My experience was fine with Arcane until around level 60ish.
I died too fast, and it sucked in Zhen parties, because sometimes if you took 1 or 2 hits you were done for.
I bought those reset things and reset my stats for Light Armor. It was an amazing choice.
LA mages are better in PvP and more useful in TW, because you won't die in 1 shot from an archer every single time.
Also, you might think that your damage will decrease a lot, but the difference is very small from what I can recall.
You'll be more valuable in zhen parties, in PvP, and in TW. Also if you're in a group with a WB who doesn't know how to tank properly, you won't be a one hit wonder.
Changing to LA was a great choice for me. If you don't PvP or TW, and have a very good zhen group later on, then stay arcane.I read the forums when bored at work for the lulz.0 -
Fina - Heavens Tear wrote: »My experience was fine with Arcane until around level 60ish.
I died too fast, and it sucked in Zhen parties, because sometimes if you took 1 or 2 hits you were done for.
I bought those reset things and reset my stats for Light Armor. It was an amazing choice.
LA mages are better in PvP and more useful in TW, because you won't die in 1 shot from an archer every single time.
Also, you might think that your damage will decrease a lot, but the difference is very small from what I can recall.
You'll be more valuable in zhen parties, in PvP, and in TW. Also if you're in a group with a WB who doesn't know how to tank properly, you won't be a one hit wonder.
Changing to LA was a great choice for me. If you don't PvP or TW, and have a very good zhen group later on, then stay arcane.
imo it ARE the 60's where arcane really shines, cause all mobs are magic.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Lv 67+ -> magic mobs never hit you, unless you get agro'd or somethingCeliaZ - Sanctuary wrote: »imo it ARE the 60's where arcane really shines, cause all mobs are magic.Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0 -
WOOOO SO ARCANE MAGE IS THE BEST TO GO, THANKS FOR HELP GUYSb:laugh0
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Each build has different strengths. PvP, PK, Zhen etc LA is nice. Reduces your random deaths at the hands of phys dmg. Lowers your dmg some, but you've still got the extra crit % to help out and you can always wear robes to reduce mag dmg if you find yourself facing arcane mobs.0
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each build has its strengts, but I'm beginning to think more and more that LA is just a bad version of a cleric. Dmg is about the same and sometimes less, and cleric has support skills on top of that.
Robe on the other hand can outdamage a cleric easily. I was under the impression that an archer does a better dps but I was questing yesterday at bondmaids near Tusk-town and an archer same lvl as me took a bit longer to kill. I was 3 shot-ing them, archer took a while to bring them down. True, they were weak to fire, but still...
As for TW, in the last 2 weeks that extra dmg I have as a robe, making me need 1 less shot to kill a cata-puller or BM kept me alive. Same 1 less shot helped me kill 2 phoenixes (3 shot) before they got me...couldn't get to the veno though...she was fleeing to fast ...lol. I died about 4 times i think last week, only once at the end this week, after the victory was already ours and timer was running out.____________
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The spikes are what will break a big barb pulling a cata. 6x,7x barbs don't really stand up. Get a high 8x or 9x and you'd best be hitting some crits.
Your extra damage is cool but getting 1hko from an archer, or from the pheonix if it hits you 1 time, or from the BM that stunlocks you, or from the tower you get too close to, or etc. is not particularly fun. If the pheonix is already sicked on you, unless its owner is low lev..9 times our of 10 your dead anyways. If you can catch the veno by surprise though...why target the pheonix?
Clerics of my level (and sometimes several levels higher) do not steal aggy from me. I'm belting out a crit appox once every other mob which is funny on 9% crit.
I can also go into the middle of 6-7 Demonic Rogueknights (lev 83) and burn them down solo with Dragons Breath. Killed 280 mobs in an hour with 23k repair bill that way. Using some event food and an hp charm, solo aoe grind
(Add Justice and One-man in for extra benefit.)
My pure build buddy has problems doing it with just 3 of em. Dies if a 4th shows up, increased attack or sac assault.
Rebirth order and Zhen, a robe wizzie skates the razors edge...LA has no issue.
The archer probably wasn't using thier skills, they seldom need to to kill except maybe thier knockback. 3 wizzies in party, using undine strike, one archer 1 level higher, the archer pulls the dmg every time
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Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »The spikes are what will break a big barb pulling a cata. 6x,7x barbs don't really stand up. Get a high 8x or 9x and you'd best be hitting some crits.
Your extra damage is cool but getting 1hko from an archer, or from the pheonix if it hits you 1 time, or from the BM that stunlocks you, or from the tower you get too close to, or etc. is not particularly fun. If the pheonix is already sicked on you, unless its owner is low lev..9 times our of 10 your dead anyways. If you can catch the veno by surprise though...why target the pheonix?
Obviously the key to killing high level barbs is to replace an otherwise consistent damage with a lowered damage combined with a game of chance. At that point, the future of your guild will depend on your luck rolling that crit dice, joy. From my experience, I don't really recall having problems avoiding EA's, unless they get some high crit in, in which case nothing would save you. Phoenix, well, drink a purify pot, only way to deal with glitched ****. BM aren't a considerable problem, I've gotten stunlocked for ages and I still don't die. No class should be getting close to towers unless they have a cata, either way, a robe mage can fend off several hits before dying. Even then, we don't need to go around pretending we're a tanker class.
Edit: omfg, the first page curseAs only the child that I was, I tread with giants.
Their footprints on the sand, marked for times immemorial, serve as evidence of hope.
And though my short legs could not keep up, my heart was always by their side. Conqueror.0 -
Pull the agro, may be? It does nothing to do with real dps. Criticals pull agro very easily even if actual dps is significantly lower.Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »The archer probably wasn't using thier skills, they seldom need to to kill except maybe thier knockback. 3 wizzies in party, using undine strike, one archer 1 level higher, the archer pulls the dmg every time--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0 -
Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »Obviously the key to killing high level barbs is to replace an otherwise consistent damage with a lowered damage combined with a game of chance. At that point, the future of your guild will depend on your luck rolling that crit dice, joy. From my experience, I don't really recall having problems avoiding EA's, unless they get some high crit in, in which case nothing would save you. Phoenix, well, drink a purify pot, only way to deal with glitched ****. BM aren't a considerable problem, I've gotten stunlocked for ages and I still don't die. No class should be getting close to towers unless they have a cata, either way, a robe mage can fend off several hits before dying. Even then, we don't need to go around pretending we're a tanker class.
Edit: omfg, the first page curse
Little heated there.
Don't know about your TW's but most of the time I'd be facing higher level classes than myself where a 1hko from an archer is an expected on a robe. Not being high 8x or 9x robes just don't really stand up so well to a sparked demon archer, crits or no. Same thing when dealing with a barb 10-15 levs higher, your constant damage just isn't going to make it through. Higher lev BM stunlock should take you out...else the BM just isn't doing the job right. The pheonix thing...how many veno's crow about 2 second KO on robes with thier pet? Most robes don't survive long enough for purify to matter...cause of the incoming stuns and phys damage.
Your lev 9x now, I'm sure at some point you've had to fight people 10+ levs over you...where you just couldn't put a dent in them no matter that you had 3-4 people on the same person? Constant damage just won't cut it in that case, gonna have to get lucky.
Lemme think, there were some chocolates that increased your crit rate by 5% for 5 mins, think that might help with the game of chance? 9% doesn't sound so hot..but 14% is starting to be constant damage...
Not trying to get in an argument here, each build has thier ups and downs, argued over since forever by much higher levels than myself. I can only bring my experiences to the table. Being 9x pure I'm sure you've got some of your own to show how neat your build is.0 -
Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »Pull the agro, may be? It does nothing to do with real dps. Criticals pull agro very easily even if actual dps is significantly lower.
Take that one up with the archers and the rest of the server. Its a common accepted that archers out DPS wizzies.0 -
Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »Take that one up with the archers and the rest of the server. Its a common accepted that archers out DPS wizzies.
Yep agreed. Archer can just regular shoot while wiz gotta use skills and yes wiz skills do more damage but archers can get off 2-3 shots by the time u get off a skill like gush and more with skills like sandstorm etc and exceed damage of a wiz due to high crit factor.0 -
Not sure I get this advise at all. I'm pure and now in my early 60s and it's been tough up until my 60s. I find myself in trouble FAR less often than ever before. I just now am finding my squishy to damage I do ratio starting to pay off. Only thing I can figure is I haven't zened yet, so perhaps light armor is advantages for that. I wouldn't know.Fina - Heavens Tear wrote: »My experience was fine with Arcane until around level 60ish....0 -
(not pvp wizzy) - u have light armor = u waste magic points into dex. u dont have so much more hp anyway. and defense is weak. so is ur magic attack. it takes u more time to kill a monster, so a monster hits u longer.
arcane= faster kills, cause of more magic damage. only thing is to get used to battle style. not just stand in one place ;p little prob with shooting mobs bu rest is ok.
After having veno i thought it would be hard to have pure magic wizzy but its not ^^0 -
HoVulpes - Sanctuary wrote: »(not pvp wizzy) - u have light armor = u waste magic points into dex. u dont have so much more hp anyway. and defense is weak. so is ur magic attack. it takes u more time to kill a monster, so a monster hits u longer.
arcane= faster kills, cause of more magic damage. only thing is to get used to battle style. not just stand in one place ;p little prob with shooting mobs bu rest is ok.
After having veno i thought it would be hard to have pure magic wizzy but its not ^^
HP is unrelated to LA build. Your physical defense is twice as much as an archer in LA, you should be getting close to 65% or more dmg reduction from phys mobs. Your magic defense should be twice any other class in LA due to your elemental shields. While not quite as high as pure arcane in robes, its still excellent compared to any other classes (in the element of your shield) You can wear arcane robes if required to tank a magic boss. This is equipment related and as an LA you can switch between the two negating any advantage a robe wearer would gather from this. *Its very expensive to maintain 2 sets of gear though, so it might not be possible for you.
The basic concept of a LA is that you gain considerable defense at the cost of some magic attack. While there are applications during normal grinding, usually its during TW\PK and other instances where you really come into your power.
You will have more survivability during normal grinding, but will take a loss in your damage output. Usually costs an extra spell to kill a mob. Your crit rate will increase which helps with this some, but its not an equal trade.0 -
Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »The basic concept of a LA is that you gain considerable defense at the cost of some magic attack. While there are applications during normal grinding, usually its during TW\PK and other instances where you really come into your power.
LA is not for TW... Because any given person can barely be targeted, or can just as easily escape, survivability is not much of a problem. Now, if you have a mage with meaninglessly high survivability and reduced magic attack, compared to a mage with good survivability and higher damage, which would you pick? I find that pure mages shine in TW, LA goes for PK, not both, it's strategically inadequate.As only the child that I was, I tread with giants.
Their footprints on the sand, marked for times immemorial, serve as evidence of hope.
And though my short legs could not keep up, my heart was always by their side. Conqueror.0 -
Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »LA is not for TW... Because any given person can barely be targeted, or can just as easily escape, survivability is not much of a problem. Now, if you have a mage with meaninglessly high survivability and reduced magic attack, compared to a mage with good survivability and higher damage, which would you pick? I find that pure mages shine in TW, LA goes for PK, not both, it's strategically inadequate.
Nice to have an opinion. I find the opposite is true.
I find it easy to target other people...... Seems they can target us easily enough also!!
If YOU can't ever target anyone...and they can't ever target you...which corner of the map are you hiding in? Generally I find the TW is between the bases somewhere....try out there.
Otherwise survivabilty DOES matter...else you'll have a dead nuke who's never fired a spell...0 -
Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »Nice to have an opinion. I find the opposite is true.
I find it easy to target other people...... Seems they can target us easily enough also!!
If YOU can't ever target anyone...and they can't ever target you...which corner of the map are you hiding in? Generally I find the TW is between the bases somewhere....try out there.
Otherwise survivabilty DOES matter...else you'll have a dead nuke who's never fired a spell...
Wrong, if there's a mass of 20 people, it is more likely that they will target the ones up ahead, where you, as a mage, shouldn't be. If you are targeted, distance shrink back, run a bit, and if they follow you to the depths of your own guild members they're **** and they will die soon enough, at which point you walk back and keep killing. Hence, increased survivability and hard to target.
As the attacker, we can target and attack anyone easily enough. That wasn't what I was discussing. I was explaining how our survivability was increased because of what I explained above, not any inability to target anyone else. Fair attempt at avoiding the topic at hand nonetheless.
I've explained the survivability issue above, it does matter, and I have covered it. Also, a LA is not a nuke, it's a crossing of a tanker and a DD, therein mastering neither. They're as reliable to DD as their crit dice allows them to be, which isn't a good factor during crucial moments.As only the child that I was, I tread with giants.
Their footprints on the sand, marked for times immemorial, serve as evidence of hope.
And though my short legs could not keep up, my heart was always by their side. Conqueror.0 -
Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »Wrong, if there's a mass of 20 people, it is more likely that they will target the ones up ahead, where you, as a mage, shouldn't be. If you are targeted, distance shrink back, run a bit, and if they follow you to the depths of your own guild members they're **** and they will die soon enough, at which point you walk back and keep killing. Hence, increased survivability and hard to target.
As the attacker, we can target and attack anyone easily enough. That wasn't what I was discussing. I was explaining how our survivability was increased because of what I explained above, not any inability to target anyone else. Fair attempt at avoiding the topic at hand nonetheless.
I've explained the survivability issue above, it does matter, and I have covered it. Also, a LA is not a nuke, it's a crossing of a tanker and a DD, therein mastering neither. They're as reliable to DD as their crit dice allows them to be, which isn't a good factor during crucial moments.
Different theories on survivability is all. Your idea of it is that you won't get hit.
My idea of it is that I will get hit, and survive.0 -
Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »Different theories on survivability is all. Your idea of it is that you won't get hit.
My idea of it is that I will get hit, and survive.
No... you will get hit, but you will avoid further damage. If you want to get hit repeatedly and do normal damage, roll a WB or something else.As only the child that I was, I tread with giants.
Their footprints on the sand, marked for times immemorial, serve as evidence of hope.
And though my short legs could not keep up, my heart was always by their side. Conqueror.0 -
Skyannie - Lost City wrote: »No... you will get hit, but you will avoid further damage. If you want to get hit repeatedly and do normal damage, roll a WB or something else.
Thanks no. I'll play an effective wizzy. And I'll even be nice and not force other people to play LA who don't want to.0 -
There's another kind of survivability in TW. The faster you kill, the faster you can move on. The longer you have to stand still, the more likely you'll be targetted. The only thing you have to be capable of is surviving an attack from someone you didn't see. At lower levels, you need LA to be able to survive an archer. At 90+ but some good shards/refines, you no longer need it.
I still think LA is only good for 89-, and that LA is better than Arcane at 89-. Both PK and TW. I don't know about 90+ PK, though.Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0 -
I think its pretty much an accepted that at 9x you restat to Pure and go on. When the EQ+Refine+Shards allow you to get to the point of diminishing returns in your resistances.0
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Ok look, after detailed planning and research IN MY OPINION, i believe arcane mages are the best in both simply because in tws everyones everywhere, not everyones focusing on YOU especially unless youve got a big head or something? anyway since youve got an arcane build, youve obviously got the highest attacks in the game, so why not use it as an advantage.
So why argue amongst eachother and admit, that LA mage is good for survavbility, well better than arcane, and arcane can pretty much 1shot some clerics, barbs and bms if they arent concentrating? im sure this reply will get loads of replys about me being wrong and really i dont care, my questions were answered and im happy, just dont argue simple as that, if we can use maximum damage on someone who isnt focused, deadly.....0 -
Fizzyy - Sanctuary wrote: »Ok look, after detailed planning and research IN MY OPINION, i believe arcane mages are the best in both simply because in tws everyones everywhere, not everyones focusing on YOU especially unless youve got a big head or something? anyway since youve got an arcane build, youve obviously got the highest attacks in the game, so why not use it as an advantage.
So why argue amongst eachother and admit, that LA mage is good for survavbility, well better than arcane, and arcane can pretty much 1shot some clerics, barbs and bms if they arent concentrating? im sure this reply will get loads of replys about me being wrong and really i dont care, my questions were answered and im happy, just dont argue simple as that, if we can use maximum damage on someone who isnt focused, deadly.....
Usually in TW I'd get a squad of other people focused on me 5-6 people, as my squad would focus on whomever I've got targeted the same way. LA has always been about more survivability, while Pure has always been hitting like a mack truck. The usual argument is whether the increased survivability is worth the lesser damage and quantifying that damage seems the way everyone goes to prove it. LA's believe its a fair trade. Pure's don't. Thems the nuts and bolts.0 -
I've been watching the Arcane vs Light threads for quite a while now, and haven't seen much of a straight answer yet for which is truly best and when - I'm seeing lots of crossover level wise as each wizard touts the plusses of their own personal choice.
I'll be reaching 3x soon and I'm on the PvP server Harshlands. I don't plan on hiding. I'm currently statted to LA - how worth it is it to stay LA right now?
From the perspective of solo grinding, it will take me an extra spell or two to take out a mob, but for the harder mobs that would get to me even as Arcane, I'll be able to take more hits from them. So, is it a draw for grinding purposes? Or would I really grind quicker if I worked my stats to Arcane?
From the perspective of PvP, how much assistance will my LA survivability tradeoff be, vs going Arcane at the early levels? Is it going to be a moot point for a while because anything over my level will be able to take me out in short order no matter what my armor, or will LA buy me enough time to retaliate and or flee if I don't feel much like playing target at that particular time? (Is fleeing even an option? XD) And is retaliating as LA even an option? (I'm not going to go into whether it's advisable to fight back and risk a KoS order right now...)
From the perspective of FB/TW/TT, is the DD gimping from the LA armor really going to impact a lot so that I'd be more valuable as Arcane? Or would the LA pdef save me from the AoE bosses (what level FB do we get those, anyway?)
Or is there no clear answer? XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0 -
Lareish - Harshlands wrote: »I've been watching the Arcane vs Light threads for quite a while now, and haven't seen much of a straight answer yet for which is truly best and when - I'm seeing lots of crossover level wise as each wizard touts the plusses of their own personal choice.
I'll be reaching 3x soon and I'm on the PvP server Harshlands. I don't plan on hiding. I'm currently statted to LA - how worth it is it to stay LA right now?
From the perspective of solo grinding, it will take me an extra spell or two to take out a mob, but for the harder mobs that would get to me even as Arcane, I'll be able to take more hits from them. So, is it a draw for grinding purposes? Or would I really grind quicker if I worked my stats to Arcane?
From the perspective of PvP, how much assistance will my LA survivability tradeoff be, vs going Arcane at the early levels? Is it going to be a moot point for a while because anything over my level will be able to take me out in short order no matter what my armor, or will LA buy me enough time to retaliate and or flee if I don't feel much like playing target at that particular time? (Is fleeing even an option? XD) And is retaliating as LA even an option? (I'm not going to go into whether it's advisable to fight back and risk a KoS order right now...)
From the perspective of FB/TW/TT, is the DD gimping from the LA armor really going to impact a lot so that I'd be more valuable as Arcane? Or would the LA pdef save me from the AoE bosses (what level FB do we get those, anyway?)
Or is there no clear answer? XD
Your at the heart of the argument. There is no clear answer, only opinion. At your level there is no difference in dmg, its mostly weapon based. Truthfully its a bit early to stat LA for you, but I look forward to seeing how you progress.0 -
And so we just keep spinning 'round, then.
I'll probably stick with LA. I prefer the armor look, and I have excellent luck at crafting 2* LA armor - the Pdef ends up being practically HA level for the NEXT stage up, and the Mdef ends up being within 10 of the current Arcane, plus sockets to play with
And with the damage dealt difference being in the low hundreds at this point...
How much does the damage gap widen at the higher levels?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Harshlands || Lareish (Wz), Enraged Executor || AKA Howl Leader Garmr
~~ ~~~ The semi-sane, optimistic cynic with a light heart. ~~~ ~~0
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