Can a guild be saved? And how?

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Fishcake - Heavens Tear
Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
edited April 2009 in General Discussion
Well, what is the best route for a guild to do, that has lost pretty much all of their high level members to an upstart new guild, and finds itself almost unable to now TW, when they used to be able to TW on a regular basis.

You can't continue to only recruit level 70+ anymore, because all the 90's are gone, and there isn't really anything to offer someone in this level range anymore due to all the fad of the week, power guilds gobbling up all the people in this level range. With promises of glory and future bragging rights.

Is there any possible way to rebuild once a guild hits this point? Or has the fat lady sung, and is it time to consider closing it's doors?
Post edited by Fishcake - Heavens Tear on

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  • Mothergoose - Sanctuary
    Mothergoose - Sanctuary Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Just recruit lower lvl people and build back up. Hey, you're still better off than new guilds recruiting lvl 10+.
  • Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear
    Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear Posts: 722 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    First of all, there are too many guilds

    Second the problem isnt neccessary with the guild but with the community. Put any random 5 PW players together in a squad and 14seconds later you have a huge fight on your hands. TW guilds seem to go hand in hand with greedy obnoxious personalities.

    I'd say rather than trying to recruit "new" players(those dont exist on HT), start looking at how many medium and small sized guilds there are and talk to their leaders about a merge.
  • Mothergoose - Sanctuary
    Mothergoose - Sanctuary Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Try to rebuild as a non-TW guild. As far as higher lvl guilds go, those tend to be far more stable. There are worthwhile activities other than TW.b:victory
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Merges have been discussed, and we even have done a merge or two, but usually other guilds want you to merge with them, because they don't want to lose their power.

    And as far as recruiting lower level toons to recoup a guilds numbers, what do you do with the high level members you have still left in the guild, that are refusing to accept these lower levels, and talk about leaving themselves if we lower the limit?

    Seems to be a nasty catch 22.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    my guild on LC has really grown alot.. About a month ago, we had only one 8x and rarely had more than 20 people on at the same time. Now, we frequently have 70+ members online... and most of them being 7x or 8x, and a few 90+. Not really sure how we grew so fast, but I can say that the guild kinda grew up.. Been in there since I was lvl 20, and the officers recruited a few lvls around 30ish and really helped us out with everything. Now that we are getting higher, there are a lot of us that are more loyal to the faction than other places, with good friends etc and now the recruits are a lot higher levels. Anyway.. getting off topic.. but what I would say is to go recruit people at a lower level, help them out a lot and get a few loyal members. As they level up, you will be attracting a lot of newer players. You might also try merging with a guild or two... that usually builds up a guild pretty quick :D
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  • Hisui - Heavens Tear
    Hisui - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,369 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    reputation reputation reputation.

    If you want to become a strong TW faction, the only way is to TW TW and TW until you have build up a reputation as a TW faction.

    Everyone will be high level in time. Whats most important is you create an atmosphere for all your guild members to have fun and enjoy each others company.
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  • Defected - Heavens Tear
    Defected - Heavens Tear Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    There is a way...

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=257272
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    Changed my mind. Permanently Retired - Only here to troll.
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Actually we have been a TW faction for many months now, even held some land on the map a time or two. The loss of our highest level players, seemed to be due to some new guilds forming, and pulled members from us, and several other guilds. Next thing we knew all our 90s were gone, and now seeing some 70s and 80s leaving because of it.

    It just seems like a seeping wound, that just don't wanna scab.
  • h1meyou
    h1meyou Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Lemme guess... Roadkill/Ultra ?
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    h1meyou wrote: »
    Lemme guess... Roadkill/Ultra ?

    If you guessed right, I wouldn't acknowledge who we were. No reason to make a bad situation even worse.
  • Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear
    Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    h1meyou wrote: »
    Lemme guess... Roadkill/Ultra ?
    Ultra never had level 90s as far as I know, and I wouldn't describe RK as holding land only "a time or two".

    SentinelS? Shadow? I bet if we keep guessing we can figure it out.
  • h1meyou
    h1meyou Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Fishcake - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you guessed right, I wouldn't acknowledge who we were. No reason to make a bad situation even worse.

    hmm..u sure you're from HT?
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ultra never had level 90s as far as I know, and I wouldn't describe RK as holding land only "a time or two".

    SentinelS? Shadow? I bet if we keep guessing we can figure it out.

    It does not matter who we are. The topic of the thread is how to fix a troubled guild, if its even possible. Stop trying to Hijack the thread.
  • Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear
    Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Try to rebuild as a non-TW guild. As far as higher lvl guilds go, those tend to be far more stable. There are worthwhile activities other than TW.b:victory

    in all honesty i agree with this. u need to stick with the ppl u got now loyalty is key for a long lasting guild. offer things other than TW. like guild events, WB's, TT raids and other things that makes ur guild differ from the others. ur current members will stay in guild longer and get stronger while helping u get new ones. chin up bruh it could be worse. u could have ended up like R.O.C. b:bye
  • h1meyou
    h1meyou Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    ok i digress, my bad.

    some advice maybe; try to have a core group build up rapport with others, new or old members, and then slowly spread out to the entire faction. not just small 'cliques' which usually make the rest feel left out.
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Yeah we been pulling our hair out trying to figure out how to reverse the trend we find ourselves in. One thing that I do find peace in, with all this is with all those members we lost to go somewhere completely new, with no history and loyalty built up, is they will also be just as likely to bail on them when the next fad, power guild of the week pops up. And they can be repaid for their sins of recruiting members of established guilds, in their haste of being power hungry. What goes around comes around.

    Everybody is in a rush for power and glory, and so few actually want to work for it, and be loyal to friends they have played with for months. It's actually kinda sad if you ask me.
  • Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear
    Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    the worst rep u can have is a guild jumper rep. if there a guild jumper it's not worth having in ur guild regardless of lvl. they seriously mess up moral for any guild
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    So rebuilding the guild obviously is what we need to do, what level would you say is reasonable to start recruiting? Some in the guild say 50-60s, but I wonder if even lower shouldnt be considered.

    And from all accounts some of our remaining high levels arent too happy about lowering the recruiting limit. Is recruiting 40s and 50s worth losing some more of our 80s? Don't seem like a good tradeoff.
  • Rebela - Heavens Tear
    Rebela - Heavens Tear Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Fishcake - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It does not matter who we are. The topic of the thread is how to fix a troubled guild, if its even possible. Stop trying to Hijack the thread.

    i think i know which is the troubled guild ..nw i won't tell b:victory
    all i can say is that ur guild reached this situation because when was formed random ppl joined based on their lvls, few groups of friends were from the beginning there, all that came along were just trying to fit or they just joined because of TW, to be on their own or bond later and not because the friends they have are there. You just can't make a guild last longer, if on the way u merge with another guild that ur faction members don't get along to or don't have friends/acquaintances there. The bonding will not last.
    PS: might not be the guild i'm thinking of, but in many cases this applies.
  • Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear
    Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    most guild are made starting off with a group of random ppl
  • Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear
    Black_Ghost - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    P.S. lvl 60+ best bet
  • Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear
    Kimyrielle - Heavens Tear Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    First of all, there are too many guilds

    Second the problem isnt neccessary with the guild but with the community. Put any random 5 PW players together in a squad and 14seconds later you have a huge fight on your hands. TW guilds seem to go hand in hand with greedy obnoxious personalities.

    I'd say rather than trying to recruit "new" players(those dont exist on HT), start looking at how many medium and small sized guilds there are and talk to their leaders about a merge.

    I usually never have any problem with the randoms I play with. I have no idea why your teams always end up in drama.

    Second, there are not too many guilds, there are exactly as many guilds as people wanted to make since supply=demand. No, the vast majority of those can't do TW, I guess it's because they don't want to. As far as I am aware of only a very small fraction of all HT guilds even want to TW, so there aren't really many of them at all.

    And last, of course there are "new" as in "freshly started" players in HT, we often recruit some. But then again, we recruit people, not levels. I guess the problem is that most TW guilds want L70+ players, and of course those don't come as "new". Most experienced players are already in a guild or don't want to be in one at all. In both cases, I would indeed think that advertising for L70+ players in WC is pointless more often than not.

    To the OP: Your best option is probably indeed to go for a merger with another aspiring TW guild. The issue why those don't happen often is that to my experience, most guilds want the other guild to just move into the other, no questions asked. Why would another guild want to do that unless they are dramatically smaller than yours?

    I guess one thing you have to realize when running a PvP oriented guild is that most people always want to be with the winners. That's why Enrage, Radiance & Co have waiting lists from here to Moscow and smaller TW guilds don't get members at all. The best idea is running a good guild and building strong networks of friends. Loyal people don't leave. Might even want to think about recruiting L40s or maybe L30s, even if most TW guilds will consider that advice to be the closest possible thing to blasphemy. Today's L30s are tomorrow's L70s and in those 40 levels they probably will get attached to your guild and not quit it after the first TW defeat.
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  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Fishcake - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Well, what is the best route for a guild to do, that has lost pretty much all of their high level members to an upstart new guild, and finds itself almost unable to now TW, when they used to be able to TW on a regular basis.

    You can't continue to only recruit level 70+ anymore, because all the 90's are gone, and there isn't really anything to offer someone in this level range anymore due to all the fad of the week, power guilds gobbling up all the people in this level range. With promises of glory and future bragging rights.

    Is there any possible way to rebuild once a guild hits this point? Or has the fat lady sung, and is it time to consider closing it's doors?

    I am guild leader of guild that is over 4 years on another game.The best way is to kick the inactive out and recruit low lvls and help them out.Don't do anything for them just show them how.This is one step in rebuilding as those low lvls progress promote them and get them recruiting.Those that go to glory guilds as you say will be in for hard lesson.

    You can still keep your inactives incase they do come back but set a date or an aproximate time.Don't do what that link tells you want to do.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Fishcake - Heavens Tear
    Fishcake - Heavens Tear Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Sitting here with head in hands, not wanting to admit our TW days are now over.b:cry
  • Torsay - Sanctuary
    Torsay - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Do you know the saying "Loyalty is blood"?

    Having a big guild in long term is about constant work with lowbies. The better you can do that the bigger guild grows. Once you stop the numbers in guild start to drop after a while. Thats a general rule.

    If any problems appear and few of your members leave cause of this and that, which is always inevitable in long term, and you already stopped recruiting for a while then you are going to fall.

    Think about where it got screwed up first, then you can find out how to get back.... might be too late.

    In this game things are pretty different for the top few guilds that keep winning TWs because of their influence that the huge rewards give them they dont have to work with lowbies so much and some of these guilds not anymore.

    Work with lowbies is a real mess and thats where this game gets pretty twisted. Guilds that are on top and dont have to mess with lowbs then they get everything.

    I guess the new servers caused few guild to drop on the older servers.

    Well I am just trying to say that this game doesnt show the real leaders, just those who were able to achieve some things first before others. I figured this out at level 40 or so and for a while I thought this game is a trash... but then I changed... game I cant get addicted to... cool... its also a money war which is what I dont have atm, so I cant take it any serious :P

    Go on the new servers or go play something else... or get used to live without your TWs.

    I hope that advice doesnt sound too harsh. :)
  • Wolfgang - Dreamweaver
    Wolfgang - Dreamweaver Posts: 438 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Another idea is to find another guild (or two) in your same situation and disband both guilds to form a new guild with a new name. That would be a true merge. You can agree upon a name beforehand, so it won't be an issue. I know most guilds want you to merge with them and they won't merge with you, but perhaps you can find a guild or two that recognizes the wisdom in working together.
  • Kazue - Heavens Tear
    Kazue - Heavens Tear Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Fishcake - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yeah we been pulling our hair out trying to figure out how to reverse the trend we find ourselves in. One thing that I do find peace in, with all this is with all those members we lost to go somewhere completely new, with no history and loyalty built up, is they will also be just as likely to bail on them when the next fad, power guild of the week pops up. And they can be repaid for their sins of recruiting members of established guilds, in their haste of being power hungry. What goes around comes around.

    Everybody is in a rush for power and glory, and so few actually want to work for it, and be loyal to friends they have played with for months. It's actually kinda sad if you ask me.

    Some guilds have a tendency to become arrogant when they acquire power. It’s true that people flock to the top guild. But the top guild got there mostly due to the people that it recruited in its infancy, less due to the ones who showed up later. As part of the leadership, it’s your responsibility to recruit new members that a good fit for the guild and not just let any moron in. And if you can’t do that, step down and let someone who can take over. And if your members left to join some unnamed guild, that’s pretty much all your fault. Those that left to join an unnamed guild are not the ones to rush to power and glory. After all, they are giving up a TW paycheck to start anew. What’s sad is your inability to inspire loyalty.
  • starman17
    starman17 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    also, you could do what big bankrupt companies are doing and sell your faction name to an up and coming faction. this is assuming your faction name is something like RoadKill, which has been around for a while and well-known.
  • Miatemaro - Heavens Tear
    Miatemaro - Heavens Tear Posts: 700 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Fishcake - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If you guessed right, I wouldn't acknowledge who we were. No reason to make a bad situation even worse.

    Let me say the guess then. Legion.
    working it Q_Q
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  • jemima
    jemima Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ultra never had level 90s as far as I know, and I wouldn't describe RK as holding land only "a time or two".

    SentinelS? Shadow? I bet if we keep guessing we can figure it out.

    I'm pretty sure Shadow's never owned land.

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