Carebearland

Alex - Harshlands
Alex - Harshlands Posts: 113 Arc User
edited December 2010 in Dawnglory (EU)
I'm officially renaming the harshlands. Why? Because it fits better. There is no pk on this server. Only pk you'll have is some bs kos and you'll kill the same people over and over. Everyone spends more time in whispers and WC complaining about each other than anything else. If i screenshot how many whispers i get daily from people crying about being pk'd you'd see why this server should just merge with heaven's tear server and carebear it up.

It's a pk server for gods sake, stop complaining so much. Stop b!tching about someone killing you, uneaven numbers, levels and/or gear. Yes a phoenix veno will roll everyone 99% of the time, if you can't handle it move on. Yes people will kill you 30vs1 whenever they can, if you can't handle it move on.

As for the "talent" pool of pkers on this server, aside from the phoenix veno's there is none. Anyone with any actual pk talent remained on LC, and what you have here is the 2nd rate. Yes, everyone of you is second rate pkers. I'm sick of tired of hearing how pro people claim to be on this server. You're not, i've seen it, and you are not pro. Why do you think you have so many phoenix veno's? Why do you think they dominate any pk? They don't need talent to play with that class and that pet. Hell at least angerr and dejavu admit it.

So please, stop sending me whispers about your wee little insignificant battles and pk's because I don't care. I know this will anger a lot of you, but let's be honest, you're not pkers. Your skills are limited, your experience even more so. So stop taking all your little insignificant battles seriously, because they don't matter. Pend, crims, etc all those battles are insignificant.

So again, stop sending me your tales of battle, your requests for help, your QQ about dying and anything else pertaining to pk because this server has no pk. It has pve'rs trying to pk, and a whole lot of phoenix's.
Post edited by Alex - Harshlands on
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Comments

  • Lessie - Lost City
    Lessie - Lost City Posts: 917 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    It's a pk server for gods sake, stop complaining so much. Stop b!tching about someone killing you, uneaven numbers, levels and/or gear. Yes a phoenix veno will roll everyone 99% of the time, if you can't handle it move on. Yes people will kill you 30vs1 whenever they can, if you can't handle it move on.

    QFT
    b:cute

    Blacklist helps when u get QQ pms.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ^^ Made by Saitada ^^

    Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
    Lessie: Proof?
    Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
    Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day :D
    b:cute
  • Allure - Harshlands
    Allure - Harshlands Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Even LC was disappointly carebear. The mass hatred towards RageQuit shows that, if nothing else. It's still better than this server though.

    Honestly, I'm hoping Leviathan can get strong. This server needs a few nice little random PK guilds to make it more interesting.
  • Koyote - Harshlands
    Koyote - Harshlands Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Wait till i get to 30.b:sin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Koyote - Wizardhunter of Harshlandsb:pleased. (I hate wizardsb:angry)
  • Turnaround - Lost City
    Turnaround - Lost City Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    IMO alot of guilds want to pk but they also don't wanna KOS for w/e reason. But the second a random pk guild is created, they can call kos because they want to pk, and this way they can do it w/ minimal repurcussions. Alot of the guilds are trying to grow strong and take the map, which is why they are afraid of calling KOS in fear of slowing down their leveling. IMO this server is playing the waiting game. There are lots of ppl just begging for pk but the guilds aren't calling the kos's, and rpk=no land. Yes i do think 90% of ppl are waiting for 'endgame' to pk. Which imo, is the smart thing to do. U talk about skill but lets face it, at lower levels, the classes are rediculously unbalanced for any 'skill' to come into play. At 90+ the classes tend to even out, and we can have 'real' pk happening. Thats why, its mostly the archers and veno's complaining about lack of pk (few bms here and there.) Remember LC? CQ also played the carebear game while everyone else lowbie pked. Now they have no comp because they have all the high levels. in here, instead of 1 guild, the whole server is playing carebear. Which means once the fairies start popping out, and ppl have nothing better to do, all hell will break loose.
    Although I admit Crimson do have a huge advantage. This server is a step up from LC, because here u have all the guilds doing the smart thing, and in LC u had only 1 guild doing the smart thing, which was carebearing it up till 90+. You underestimate the server. Imo, things will be alot funner here then in LC, u just need to give it time.
  • Walterthewf - Harshlands
    Walterthewf - Harshlands Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I don't see how anyone on this game on any server can truly admit it takes a medium degree of skill or higher to play effectively as far as PvP is concerned.
  • Scarlet - Harshlands
    Scarlet - Harshlands Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Only pk you'll have is some bs kos and you'll kill the same people over and over. Everyone spends more time in whispers and WC complaining about each other than anything else.

    .. or sometimes, if you do PK, you're gonna be branded by fooramz trollz as "lowbie area farmers." It can be true at some point, but WTFBBQ? Why choose a PVP server if you're gonna wait til lvl 6X to PK then? >.>
    The mass hatred towards RageQuit shows that, if nothing else.

    IMO, RQ doesn't deserve that hatred. Actually, they deserve respect for that. I mean, PK'ing when you're around lvl 30 and be good at it, utilizing the skills and gear that you have at that level span, that's impressive. PK'ing when you have all your skills, all geared up and ish, it kinda strips away the fact that you have to push an effort being good at PK'ing.
    and in LC u had only 1 guild doing the smart thing, which was carebearing it up till 90+.
    Smart? eh. More like boring. If you wait til 9X, it's just like being in a PVE server having PVP TW every week when all the land has been taken. So yeah. Bottomline: *revert to Alex's post*
  • Elixlir - Harshlands
    Elixlir - Harshlands Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    we need a evil/strong guild....WE NEED EMOS!
  • Nova_ - Harshlands
    Nova_ - Harshlands Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Lol @ 2nd rate Pkers. Are you implying that you're good at Pking Alex? Cuz the only time you actually got "good" At killing people was when you figured out "Hey i can open my wallet, dump loads of cash into my toon, Kill some people and then call them all non-factors!" B4 that i barely ever saw you PK. When you did , with citafail, you got rolled.
    Inb4: your regular speil. Heard it all b4 , think of something new b:bye



    But yes i agree, this server is extremely carebear, Everyone is afraid of KoS's. IMO Go roll a PvE server if you cant take it. PvP Servers are about PK and drama, but everyone on this server just wants to PvE and be friends with everyone b:cute
  • realtalk
    realtalk Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Lol @ 2nd rate Pkers. Are you implying that you're good at Pking Alex? Cuz the only time you actually got "good" At killing people was when you figured out "Hey i can open my wallet, dump loads of cash into my toon, Kill some people and then call them all non-factors!" B4 that i barely ever saw you PK. When you did , with citafail, you got rolled.
    Inb4: your regular speil. Heard it all b4 , think of something new b:bye



    But yes i agree, this server is extremely carebear, Everyone is afraid of KoS's. IMO Go roll a PvE server if you cant take it. PvP Servers are about PK and drama, but everyone on this server just wants to PvE and be friends with everyone b:cute

    Man u guys need to start getting along....atleast for now. Theres bigger probs on the horizon. The pk will start getting to critical levels in a few weeks. And it will all be directed towards one guild. Trust me.
  • Nova_ - Harshlands
    Nova_ - Harshlands Posts: 346 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Realtalk stop spamming the forums with that ****...................................... let crimson think what they will :D
  • Alex - Harshlands
    Alex - Harshlands Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Waiting ti'll 9x to pk is dumb. Classes are NOT balanced at 9x. Wait ti'll you fight phoenix veno's at 90 and they roll your entire group solo, you'll see how balanced it really is.

    Do you people honestly think if you wait ti'll 9x to start pking, you'll magically be good at it? No, it takes practice to get good at pk. Like everything else in life, you need to practice constantly to be good at it. Only thing CQ is good at is having 10x the amount of high levels to anyone else. It's not skill, it's a zerg. Ask some CQ how much fun they're really having with the game. Most of them are bored out of there minds.

    No Nova, i'm not claiming to be pro. To be pro, you need to fight other pro's and win. Beating the people on this server does not make me pro. Competition makes someone pro, lack of it makes you a big fish in a small pond.

    Let's drop the sensitivity ****, and people start fighting. I want everyone heading to 90 to have plenty of practice in pk, so we can have some real fights. Drop all these grudges and have some fun. You get rolled, learn from it and try again. Don't complain and **** and moan about it. I fully accept the fact a good equal lvl phoenix veno will split my wig, i dont like it, but nothing i can do about it. Don't complain, adapt and pick other targets.

    What this server needs is mass pk. Every guild fighting every other guild for a solid week. Get everyone some solid pk experience.
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Waiting ti'll 9x to pk is dumb. Classes are NOT balanced at 9x. Wait ti'll you fight phoenix veno's at 90 and they roll your entire group solo, you'll see how balanced it really is.

    Do you people honestly think if you wait ti'll 9x to start pking, you'll magically be good at it? No, it takes practice to get good at pk. Like everything else in life, you need to practice constantly to be good at it. Only thing CQ is good at is having 10x the amount of high levels to anyone else. It's not skill, it's a zerg. Ask some CQ how much fun they're really having with the game. Most of them are bored out of there minds.

    No Nova, i'm not claiming to be pro. To be pro, you need to fight other pro's and win. Beating the people on this server does not make me pro. Competition makes someone pro, lack of it makes you a big fish in a small pond.

    Let's drop the sensitivity ****, and people start fighting. I want everyone heading to 90 to have plenty of practice in pk, so we can have some real fights. Drop all these grudges and have some fun. You get rolled, learn from it and try again. Don't complain and **** and moan about it. I fully accept the fact a good equal lvl phoenix veno will split my wig, i dont like it, but nothing i can do about it. Don't complain, adapt and pick other targets.

    What this server needs is mass pk. Every guild fighting every other guild for a solid week. Get everyone some solid pk experience.


    Phoenixes get easier at 9x and are basically nothing at 99+ because most people actually refine hh90 so their bleed still does 1.2k but you also have 6k+ hp now. The wf still hits for it's terrible 700 damage and now they actually have to attack several times to kill you so you can actually get in stun range.

    I somewhat agree that pking at 9x only is dumb. But I think it's in terms of moderation. PK too much pre-9x and you will fall behind the pver's, don't pk enough and you will still be using poison and serrated arrow (cough stick, latin) at 8x. Not pking at all puts you at a huge disadvantage. Really once you are 9x it's all about how much money you have. All the 8x's right now wont have just a level advantage at 90 because many people stop leveling or slow down. Once the people who somewhat pk and know how to play their class catch up, you're screwed.

    And yes about conq being boring, i stopped playing here for 2 days to maybe get 99 but i already quit again lmao.


    edit: about that money at 9x thing. people who i would 1 shot/2 shot when i quit could probably 2 shot me now.
  • Literature - Harshlands
    Literature - Harshlands Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Waiting ti'll 9x to pk is dumb. Classes are NOT balanced at 9x. Wait ti'll you fight phoenix veno's at 90 and they roll your entire group solo, you'll see how balanced it really is.

    Do you people honestly think if you wait ti'll 9x to start pking, you'll magically be good at it? No, it takes practice to get good at pk. Like everything else in life, you need to practice constantly to be good at it. Only thing CQ is good at is having 10x the amount of high levels to anyone else. It's not skill, it's a zerg. Ask some CQ how much fun they're really having with the game. Most of them are bored out of there minds.

    No Nova, i'm not claiming to be pro. To be pro, you need to fight other pro's and win. Beating the people on this server does not make me pro. Competition makes someone pro, lack of it makes you a big fish in a small pond.

    Let's drop the sensitivity ****, and people start fighting. I want everyone heading to 90 to have plenty of practice in pk, so we can have some real fights. Drop all these grudges and have some fun. You get rolled, learn from it and try again. Don't complain and **** and moan about it. I fully accept the fact a good equal lvl phoenix veno will split my wig, i dont like it, but nothing i can do about it. Don't complain, adapt and pick other targets.

    What this server needs is mass pk. Every guild fighting every other guild for a solid week. Get everyone some solid pk experience.

    What you said might be true if we were playing multiplayer Crysis or Fear 2 or something. O_o

    This game is all about how many people you have fighting with you...and how high a level you are above your enemy. Also depends on what class you choose. Why is it that melee classes have such an advantage over caster classes? They should take more damage from our nukes. :S
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    What you said might be true if we were playing multiplayer Crysis or Fear 2 or something. O_o

    This game is all about how many people you have fighting with you...and how high a level you are above your enemy. :S

    9x is all about money and getting people to farm with you. That's why I laugh at people who waste all their money on mp charms zhenning when they have 10k coins, g7's in weapons that last for weeks.. etc. I really hope they cash shop or they are gonna stop trash talking come endgame b:chuckle
  • Allure - Harshlands
    Allure - Harshlands Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    It'll be cute watching the PvE-till-90 kids try to PK. :3 I'm sure all of us PvPers do remember our first times? Adrenalin rushing, hands trembling, QQing in PMs...ah, the memories.

    They'll hit 90, get all their gear, refine it, and then think, "Sht, what do I do now?". These wannabes will then try to PK, and likely fail horribly...possibly get butthurt and /ragequit. With no motivation to level, and the only thing left to do being PK (which they're butthurt about), why would they even log on anymore?
  • Wreck - Harshlands
    Wreck - Harshlands Posts: 380 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I'm gonna laugh myself into a coma when the 9x start quitting cause Wreck the FailBeast is still killing them.

    Seriously, I have to be the worst werebeast I've ever seen.
  • xtazee
    xtazee Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    It'll be cute watching the PvE-till-90 kids try to PK. :3 I'm sure all of us PvPers do remember our first times? Adrenalin rushing, hands trembling, QQing in PMs...ah, the memories.

    They'll hit 90, get all their gear, refine it, and then think, "Sht, what do I do now?". These wannabes will then try to PK, and likely fail horribly...possibly get butthurt and /ragequit. With no motivation to level, and the only thing left to do being PK (which they're butthurt about), why would they even log on anymore?

    So naive is what most of you are! You all keep forgetting that majority of the people are high levels from other servers? Do not underestimate them and get too full of yourselves.
    I "used" to refer to Crimson as no-skill carebear PvErs too, but after watching them closely (eg. almost breaking the WarLords TW time record, steam rolling Pend in 11 minutes etc), I've noticed it's nothing but a facade. Less QQ and more observation ftw. This server is in for a surprise :)
  • Wreck - Harshlands
    Wreck - Harshlands Posts: 380 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    The only reason they steam rolled us is because 70 people zerged down lane B, against 30-35 people in our base. It has nothing to do with skill, I assure you.

    To say the least, though, we did not expect that.
  • Lessie - Lost City
    Lessie - Lost City Posts: 917 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Damn crimson didnt roll the pro-pvpers pend fast enough, come on crimson break the warlord record next time please.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ^^ Made by Saitada ^^

    Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
    Lessie: Proof?
    Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
    Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day :D
    b:cute
  • Angerr - Harshlands
    Angerr - Harshlands Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I <3 alt + 1 b:chuckle
  • Walterthewf - Harshlands
    Walterthewf - Harshlands Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Yah, learning the intricacies of PvP on this game will keep all the level 90's with refined gear in SZ vs level 8x's with pure skillz.



    Funnnnny.
  • Alex - Harshlands
    Alex - Harshlands Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Are you on crack Devoted? Werefox's shine in the 80's and 90's, and late 90's, early 100's is when, IF you refine the hell out of your gear, they are much better to deal with. A low 90's wf fighting other low 90's is going to steam roll them. Maybe you spent too much time on LC blowing passed the low 90's, with no pk, but you'll notice it on this server once some phoenix veno's hit 90.

    late game, 99+, dumping a solid few thousand dollars into the game, yes you can refine the hell out of your equipment that bleed won't be a factor as much. Low 90's, you're going to get steam rolled horribly.

    Grinding so you can level is fine, but then everyone swears they're pro pkers, everyone constantly complains about dying or the little battles they have, and it's all a joke. Honestly, every other post is about Crimson rick rolling pendulum. This is the biggest thing going on our server. Pendulum for gods sakes. They have 2 people who can pk, angerr and deja, the rest are like chickens without a head. Crimson outnumbers them 10 to 1, on a good day. This is not a fight, this is a slaughter as it has been since the kos started.

    Yet this is the highlight of the pk on our server. No epic giant battles, just a powerhouse vs ex-ragequit. Let me break down how it goes for you al:

    Pend jumps a crimson. Crimson bring back up and fight pend for a bit. More crimson arrive and steam roll pend. Pend sits in sz and complains. Crimson feels good they won.

    Or second example: some random pend is in a zhen/grind somewhere. Some random crimson jumps him and kills him. Said pend proceeds to span WC and complain. Flipt it around when it's the reverse.

    Enough already with the Pend/Crimson tales. You can only beat on a dead horse for so long until really, it gets boring. Crimson's won, pend's lost, lets move on and get some bigger battles brewing.
  • Bakura - Harshlands
    Bakura - Harshlands Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Oh Alex, Alex. Do you think Pendulum has lost the fight just because they get outnumbered in TW and lose their lands? Naive, how very naive. ;p
    We were together before we had lands and we will be together as we lose them. Lots of points to start over at, it's as far away from over as possible, lol.

    And to the first post, yes. I ****ing hate this server and am thinking of quitting it, it bores the hell out of me :p No PvP before 9x? How very stradegic and good call, hell yeah. I'm trembling from joy at the sick amount of carebearness. Why the **** is there pve servers to begin with? Just rename Harshland into a pve one, i bet there's more pvp action on the pve servers anyway.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PvP delivered straight to your doorstep since 2oo8.
  • Escobar - Harshlands
    Escobar - Harshlands Posts: 94 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    If anyone here actually cared about skill, they wouldn't be playing this horribly gear/nix dependent game. This has to be by far the most gear dependent game I have ever played. To actually play the game normally and get your gear all 4 socketed with all flawless^ and +5 is next to impossible. And let's face it, you can't be dominating without donating.

    If everyone wants to QQ about people's so called skill purchased from the cash shop, then move onto a skill based game.
  • Bakura - Harshlands
    Bakura - Harshlands Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    And I dont want to hear anything about PvP from you either, it makes me sad to hear a person from carebear guild to QQ how ppl cant PvP. Shut. The. Hell. Up.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PvP delivered straight to your doorstep since 2oo8.
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Are you on crack Devoted? Werefox's shine in the 80's and 90's, and late 90's, early 100's is when, IF you refine the hell out of your gear, they are much better to deal with. A low 90's wf fighting other low 90's is going to steam roll them. Maybe you spent too much time on LC blowing passed the low 90's, with no pk, but you'll notice it on this server once some phoenix veno's hit 90.

    late game, 99+, dumping a solid few thousand dollars into the game, yes you can refine the hell out of your equipment that bleed won't be a factor as much. Low 90's, you're going to get steam rolled horribly.

    Grinding so you can level is fine, but then everyone swears they're pro pkers, everyone constantly complains about dying or the little battles they have, and it's all a joke. Honestly, every other post is about Crimson rick rolling pendulum. This is the biggest thing going on our server. Pendulum for gods sakes. They have 2 people who can pk, angerr and deja, the rest are like chickens without a head. Crimson outnumbers them 10 to 1, on a good day. This is not a fight, this is a slaughter as it has been since the kos started.

    Yet this is the highlight of the pk on our server. No epic giant battles, just a powerhouse vs ex-ragequit. Let me break down how it goes for you al:

    Pend jumps a crimson. Crimson bring back up and fight pend for a bit. More crimson arrive and steam roll pend. Pend sits in sz and complains. Crimson feels good they won.

    Or second example: some random pend is in a zhen/grind somewhere. Some random crimson jumps him and kills him. Said pend proceeds to span WC and complain. Flipt it around when it's the reverse.

    Enough already with the Pend/Crimson tales. You can only beat on a dead horse for so long until really, it gets boring. Crimson's won, pend's lost, lets move on and get some bigger battles brewing.

    Your ego is so big it's making you delusional. You are a level 81 archer. I am a level 93 archer. I have fought phoenixes at level 81. I have fought phoenixes at level 93. I know the difference. Bleed gets maxed at level 80 and that's when nixes are pure ****. Once you get 90 bleed takes less % of your hp because bleed is already maxed and now the increase in damage is the pet's base attack, which doesn't increase as much at 90 when it takes longer to level. You don't need to spend money on this game. I didn't spend a coin on this game to refine my gear. Again as I said before it's all about money and people to farm with. My gear isn't even good. Infact, logging back into lc, my gear is **** compared to most people who didn't quit.

    About the pend/crimson fight. You have no right to complain about no epic pvp battles. What have you done to keep this server non-carebear? Atleast pendulum has the balls to step up against the biggest faction. You keep posting on the forums like you are some type of god. You aren't. I'm sure you'll come down to earth when you aren't 10 levels above everyone.
  • Alex - Harshlands
    Alex - Harshlands Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I didn't do ANYTHING to promote pk? Boy, I was running guilds off the server in pk before pendulum even existed. It's all we did from 30 to 60, thats when pk died and everyone just zhenned. Our battles with eminence and the other, now failed guilds, are what started pk on this server.

    What the hell do you do except run your meely little mouth on the forums? You are the weakest link in your guild, all you do is tell people what they should be doing, as if you know anything about anything. You were a fail EA, now you're a fail EP, Kiwi.

    Half the **** coming out of your mouth is just that. Keep trying to suck up to BC and Kylin so they can save you in the long run. There guild leaders are actually cool people, and your little games are going to blow up in your face.
  • Allure - Harshlands
    Allure - Harshlands Posts: 242 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Enough already with the Pend/Crimson tales. You can only beat on a dead horse for so long until really, it gets boring. Crimson's won, pend's lost, lets move on and get some bigger battles brewing.

    I actually do agree with this. The attention is flattering, but hey, we need something new. Someone other than us needs to stop 24/7 mijiing and get a nice red name.
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    I didn't do ANYTHING to promote pk? Boy, I was running guilds off the server in pk before pendulum even existed. It's all we did from 30 to 60, thats when pk died and everyone just zhenned. Our battles with eminence and the other, now failed guilds, are what started pk on this server.

    Keep over-inflating that ego of yours.
    What the hell do you do except run your meely little mouth on the forums? You are the weakest link in your guild, all you do is tell people what they should be doing, as if you know anything about anything. You were a fail EA, now you're a fail EP, Kiwi.
    lol i tell people what they should be doing? what are you talking about?
    you don't know my archer lol. you think hh80 gold is godmode, you don't know how to fight a nix. you think you know about endgame wf's. you know nothing. kiwi isnt even my main.
    Half the **** coming out of your mouth is just that. Keep trying to suck up to BC and Kylin so they can save you in the long run. There guild leaders are actually cool people, and your little games are going to blow up in your face.
    suck up to bc and kylin? i almost started kos between bc and for the 5 mins they were kos i killed 2 and crashed both their zhens. i know almost every person on the first page of kylin. i don't need to suck up to them.
  • Georgebush - Lost City
    Georgebush - Lost City Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2009
    Alex was from a PvE server b:laugh
This discussion has been closed.