Kill-Stealing [KS] & Loot-Stealing [LS]

Harromellow - Heavens Tear · March 2009

This game is obviously one of the best free MMORPGs i have ever played, but one of the major flaws in this game are the people who kill-steal.

What Kill-Stealing is:
"Kill-stealing is when a person intends to kill a monster, and someone else (the kser) comes and attacks that very same monster and gets credit for the kill, and yet the second person is not in the first person's party/squad."

What Loot-Stealing is:
"Loot-stealing is when a person kills a monster and has the right to loot the dropped items, but yet a person comes over and in turn, loots it for their own personal gain."

*In general, Loot-stealing does not exist because it is not a major problem, but please continue reading to find a way to prevent any conflict between plays regarding any KS/LS situation*

My Suggestion for both:
- Monster Tagging
~Make it so that when a monster is hit, the first person that hit that monster will be the "rightful owner" of that monster kill. In other words, when the monster is hit by [Player A], the monster's name will be IMMEDIATELY greyed out (similar to World of Warcraft's system of ks). When the monster is greyed out, the monster will not give EXP or Item Drops to anyone but the first person who hit the monster (along with his or her squad). This is the only fair way to assure that everyone is getting the equal amount of kills without someone interrupting their gameplay by kill-stealing.
~The monster will only be greyed out for anyone else but the first person who tagged the monster. For the tagger, the monster's name (along with the rest of the info) will remain the same as it was before it was tagged.
~When greyed out, monsters will only give quest drops/kills to the first person who tagged it.
~Threat levels will still apply to everyone. Even if the monster is greyed out for [Player B], [Player B] can still cause a greater amount of threat than [Player A], causing the monster to attack [Player B]. When [Player B] acquires the monster's attention, it will still remain greyed out. [Player B] will still receive no EXP, Item Drops, or Quest related drops.
~Dropped items will remain under the killer's rights for around 30 seconds. After that time period, the item becomes public and anyone can loot it, even people who did not contribute in killing the monsters. To prevent conflict, disable public looting. After the 30 seconds (if this rule is patched, please change 30 seconds --> 1 minute), the item will automatically disappear.
~Make it possible for players to somehow buy (using either Zen or in-game money) a "vacuum-pet" that will automatically loot items dropped under that player's rights. If this rule is patched, please make sure that it is secure and that no one can easily exploit this service.

MAIN GUIDELINES IF SUGGESTIONS ARE FULFILLED:
- Even if a monster is greyed out and is still attacked by someone other than squad members, that the tagger (first-hit player) still receives the same amount of exp and drops.
- Again, make sure that no one can exploit the "vacuum-pet" service.
- Create a bigger map (extend coords proportionally so that the map is spread out more, but not extended in anyway until a separate patch is put in place. This is to create more room for monster spawns and to separate monsters from players so that there is a less chance of ks/ls).
- Create more spawns (not too many, perhaps by 5 monsters) This is to make sure that everyone has a share in the kills. Since this is a unifed channel-server, everyone will be fighting in the same map. When multiple people need to fight the same types of monsters, then there will automatically be ksing if a squad is not formed).
- Make items disappear after the looting period is over instead of turning on public loot (this is because some people get caught up in battling that they do not have time to loot until near the very end of the loot periods.)

This is all that i can think of at the moment, i will most likely be posting more helpful suggestions to improve the world of PerfectWorld International! If there are any questions or comments regarding my suggestions, please email me at | kevin.ip.j@gmail.com | I will reply to your requests as soon as possible! I can also be contacted inside the game on these SNs:

*Bold-Faced names are the characters I play. The others are inactive characters.*

HarroMellow - Level 16 Wizard, Heaven's Tear
HarroVenom - Level 23 Venomancer, Heaven's Tear
HolyMellow - Level 23 Priest, Heaven's Tear.

Please Mail/Whisper to me in the game on HarroMellow regarding anything at all! See you guys in the game! b:bye

Choote - Sanctuary · March 2009

Loot stealin is only possible when the person just kinda walks off from it and the timer has expired. If I see someone obviously grinding near some loot I'm not going to snag it. If it's there on the ground nobody is around and able to be picked up, then it's fair game. Not my fault you left it :P

Onetwobuff - Sanctuary · March 2009

i was grinding in silverpool for a while and i had just gotten a triple elemental fragment drop then i touroc jumpped me as i was going to get the loot so i stopped to kill the touroc and a barb runs in grabs the loot while im trying to keep alive xD

another time i was harvesting mats and i get attacked while harvesting herbs and another barb comes in harvests the mats while im fighting and i got stuck waiting 10 minutes for another spawn only to have the same thing happen

as for ksing i do alotta grinding magic mobs and outta no where an archer keeps ksing i end up takeing the hits and i never get drops and i only get half if that much xp

i love this game but i swear the noobs that intentionally ks me are ruining the entire game for me and im sure theres others that know the feeling real well

Seveneyes - Lost City · March 2009

A very well written out suggestion Harromellow. I do have a few comments on it though.

Firstly yes, kill stealing is a problem to some extent. Although the majority of attempted "kill steals" do actually fail. Or beyond that they are actually accidental. I personally conducted 2 accidental kill steal yesterday due to the fact I was on my old laptop and had to turn off player visibility and the player I kill stole was using Take aim... I was more careful after that.

As for intentional kill stealing I think it is something that you just have to put up with. The fact is, contrary to the game's name this is not a perfect world and you have to put up with those who ruin it for others (Just think it could be MUCH worse.) Alternatively try joining the PvP server and then just pk anyone who kill steals you.

As for loot stealing I gotta agree with Choote here. 99% of the time any loot left on the ground past the expiry time was never intended to be picked up. The 1% are just unlucky to not be able to reach it.

I personally like to keep track of the area for any potential aggro I could get from mobs and try to avoid it when fighting and picking up the drops. Only takes a few seconds and saves me getting ganged upon.

So loot stealing is definitely not a problem!

My last and possibly most important point is that this won't be able to be implemented by PWI. PWI are not the creators of this game, they only bought the code and the right to use it from the code's distributors (Beijing Perfect World). If PWI have anything like the rights that PW-MY had then they do not have the ability to change the dynamics of the game (Of which I would say is correct due to the fact quite a few of the same bugs in PW-MY are in this game.)

But what this means apart from the look and feel of Perfect World and probably a little more. PWI do not have the ability to change a main feature of the game (movement/fighting/new class etc.) They can only go off what comes from Beijing Perfect World.

Corwin - Harshlands · March 2009

i would think if we tried your grey system, then a lvl 5 or waht not could hit a much higher level npc while kiting and have his lvl 50 buddy (not in his squad of course) do the killing getting the low level insane amount of exp and drops.

good suggestions tho, you cant just expect the best out of any game. the developers intentions are there, but anytime something happens someone finds something to exploit and make the game harder for everyone who doesnt exploit it.

Onetwobuff - Sanctuary · March 2009

im not so much bothered with ksing since most my fighting is alone on mobs no one wants to touch lol and i think the majority of the intentional ksers are just mad at the world cause they messed up that or they are just little selfish kids with no morals

Jordana_vale - Dreamweaver · March 2009

More often than not 'kill stealing' is an honest mistake by people with their graphic settings too low (or the best performance mode on which also turns on the hide players outside a certain range). They just don't see you until it's too late. Sometimes it's just people trying to help.

Any GM or Developer of any MMO will tell you you don't own the mobs, so there's no such thing as as 'kill stealing.' Same goes for the plants and mines. You don't own those either. Even if you were irrupted by a mob while harvesting something. If someone comes up behind you and gets it before you have a chance to, then tough luck..

And for the loot stealing if you didn't pick it up before the timer ran out, then that's your problem.

MadDawgggggg - Lost City · March 2009

When this happens the drop expired for the mob you killed. When you kill a mob go get it right away just incase the timmer runs out because that can happen. Some of the drops have a negative time rate. I dont know how this works but thats why there are loot stealers. b:angry Glad to help b:pleased

Eorween - Heavens Tear · March 2009

Think of it this way if you want any non intentional KS happen.
everyone in the game have to set their distance at minimum 100.
with other characters display.

even if you do that you still cant see what that character is doing
which target he/she attacking. only when they actually hit the target
then you see where the spell is heading toward.
specially when you in a pack place where there are like 30 mobs in close area.

beside just accidents, some player use macro that chains spell or skill together.
AS we all know that hitting escape in this game dont do a thing about stopping what you are attacking.

only way to stop is move your character, means you have to use mouse click somewhere fast else you spell/skill is used

Archer even more difficult cause 90% of their skill have 0.5 channel.
lot of these are accident but if you find it to hard to deal with.
there are always certain spot/place that hardly anyone goes to go hunt there.

I do sometimes see people just been a r3tards, like im casting 5 feet away from them, they turn my way from behind me and charge forward to attack my target..
those are the people just idiots or they just want to start something.
maybe he/she find its fun to have a most stupid arguement with you.
maybe he/she just so bore want to make this their entertainment.

I have hit others people targets a lot myself but want meant for ks.
i cast from one side they cast from other side and stop spell not easy.

Overall lot of people out there dont have the high speed computer or high end graphic card.
all action are delayed.

_abby - Sanctuary · March 2009

Eorween - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Think of it this way if you want any non intentional KS happen.
everyone in the game have to set their distance at minimum 100.
with other characters display.

even if you do that you still cant see what that character is doing
which target he/she attacking. only when they actually hit the target
then you see where the spell is heading toward.
specially when you in a pack place where there are like 30 mobs in close area.

beside just accidents, some player use macro that chains spell or skill together.
AS we all know that hitting escape in this game dont do a thing about stopping what you are attacking.

only way to stop is move your character, means you have to use mouse click somewhere fast else you spell/skill is used

Archer even more difficult cause 90% of their skill have 0.5 channel.
lot of these are accident but if you find it to hard to deal with.
there are always certain spot/place that hardly anyone goes to go hunt there.

I do sometimes see people just been a r3tards, like im casting 5 feet away from them, they turn my way from behind me and charge forward to attack my target..
those are the people just idiots or they just want to start something.
maybe he/she find its fun to have a most stupid arguement with you.
maybe he/she just so bore want to make this their entertainment.

I have hit others people targets a lot myself but want meant for ks.
i cast from one side they cast from other side and stop spell not easy.

Overall lot of people out there dont have the high speed computer or high end graphic card.
all action are delayed.

that is so true tho i find people running up while im attacking and attacking then i get called a noob or in more recent cases more vulger words and that the ticks me off when people are so aragent that they think they can do w/e they want
one classic example is an archer demanding i give him 150k for him to leave me alone and he kept ksing me intentionally for an hour -.-'
the few unintentional ksers i encounter (normally while grinding aimlessly trying to lvl) are decent people in my opinion but for every 1 unintentional i find 4 intentional when questing

Clearwing - Lost City · April 2009

_abby - Sanctuary wrote: »

that is so true tho i find people running up while im attacking and attacking then i get called a noob or in more recent cases more vulger words and that the ticks me off when people are so aragent that they think they can do w/e they want
one classic example is an archer demanding i give him 150k for him to leave me alone and he kept ksing me intentionally for an hour -.-'
the few unintentional ksers i encounter (normally while grinding aimlessly trying to lvl) are decent people in my opinion but for every 1 unintentional i find 4 intentional when questing

well i don't get it how do you kill someone though? i try to do a spell on someone who is lvl 30 or up and i can't why? and i'm not in a safe zone.

Pantufinhas - Sanctuary · April 2009

Clearwing - Lost City wrote: »

well i don't get it how do you kill someone though? i try to do a spell on someone who is lvl 30 or up and i can't why? and i'm not in a safe zone.

u have to press Ctrl to be able to atack someone

press and hold the key down and u can kill whatever u want

Btw i totally agree with the sugestion for the Ksing sistem. I complain about ks all the time its pretty anoying especially on events... like those oracle mobs
damn high levels that are as.sholes (like verticoli) ks all the mobs without even caring about the other people who also need them, so this ksing sistem that was sugested its really nice to prevent ksing

Clearwing - Lost City · July 2009

Pantufinhas - Sanctuary wrote: »

u have to press Ctrl to be able to atack someone press and hold the key down and u can kill whatever u want

Btw i totally agree with the sugestion for the Ksing sistem. I complain about ks all the time its pretty anoying especially on events... like those oracle mobs
damn high levels that are as.sholes (like verticoli) ks all the mobs without even caring about the other people who also need them, so this ksing sistem that was sugested its really nice to prevent ksing

hmm well i know that now,

Clearwing - Lost City · July 2009

Choote - Sanctuary wrote: »

Loot stealin is only possible when the person just kinda walks off from it and the timer has expired. If I see someone obviously grinding near some loot I'm not going to snag it. If it's there on the ground nobody is around and able to be picked up, then it's fair game. Not my fault you left it :P

umm i have another question, if your like pink or red, and someone pks you, can you drop a boutique item? like a dress or mount? or a crimson flametalon??? sorry lol i was just wondering that for awhile.b:cute

Darkette - Sanctuary · July 2009

SUGGESTION

Kill stealing and loot stealing are major annoyances for me. I'd love to see a fix where the thief is available for PvP for 60 seconds.

If you're going to steal, you should be placed in jeopardy.

Roojie - Lost City · July 2009

One thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned(last I read before writing this) is not just when two people start and finish attacking the same mob; but the real Kill Stealers who wait until I have already nearly done in the mob and then take the last hit and basically steal what was to be my loot. I can imagine on a PvE server this is a real pain because on PvE you can't just whip around and bite off anyone's head, they have to be available for PK by their own will. (And no Kill stealing jerk is going to put themselves up for the slaughter.)

As was previously mentioned, the system could be exploited for power leveling and I can't see a way around that at the moment as any EXP and SP decreases would make it easy for a high leveled player to harass a low leveled one. However, I also wonder if that is worth the implementation of the system, I mean, how often does that even happen?
It might be better if the player who did the most damage gets the loot and EXP and not the one who frolicked in at the last minute. So at least the KSers who like to let their chosen victim do all the work, won't get anything.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · July 2009

Darkette - Sanctuary wrote: »

SUGGESTION

Kill stealing and loot stealing are major annoyances for me. I'd love to see a fix where the thief is available for PvP for 60 seconds.

If you're going to steal, you should be placed in jeopardy.

Make a new character in a pvp server, than you can just kill them before they even do anything.

Anyway, there is already a timer on the drops, so if someone picks your drops, it is because you did not wanted them. If you say you had too many mobs to kill, than it was your choice to get more exp faster instead of picking up your stuff.

Reserving mobs would be an horrible idea. You would see some guilds "tagging" all the cult bosses and demanding you to pay for the privilige to join their squad to get the kill and get your cult done. So, horrible idea. KSing is really only a problem at lower levels, when people are still getting used to the game. Once you get higher, the problem is really not there, it may happen once in while, but it is something that is not an issue.

Budika - Sanctuary · July 2009

Yeah this system sounds good with some exceptions.... I think as soon as mob resets aggro it would go back to regular.... I think whoever killed the most should get the xp... As a barb I thought Wizzy's and Archers were a bunch of KSing Jerks... Now playing a Wiz alt I understand I was a like a KS'ing jerk their in the middle of channeling and I run up and hit it... Sure they out DPS me so we split the xp but I get the Kill count for my quest... See right now whoever hit's first get's the quest count... Honestly I think this is a good system...
As to the person who had an archer being a total jerk... I'd say REPORT the ****... that's Greifing and it's a banable offense. Take a screenshot or 3 of the jerk including the words he's saying... and send it in (support ->submit ticket)... Attach the file (well turn it into jpeg...)

The game should have J-peg compression enabled for screenshots...

As far as loot stealing you've got 30 sec to pick it up that's plenty of time... don't click on it to pick it up use the loot key it'll auto get it for you... I don't see loot stealing as a problem if I've left it there for the 30 sec it's my fault...

As to the killing mobs so you can farm resources... That's Rude in my book to steal the resource while I'm killing it's guardian. Anytime anyone has done that to me I send a Duel request. Sure they don't have to give it to you but they know their doing wrong. It's everyone's game not just theirs/yours.

Kill-Stealing [KS] & Loot-Stealing [LS]

Comments

Categories