Fox form with pet for grind?
dabrozwadowski
Posts: 25 Arc User
Hello.
I'm just curious if light armor build Venomancer will be good for playing in foxform only?
I mean lvling in foxform with pet.
Will that work?
Or If I want to play always in foxform & pet it's better for me to choose blademaster?
Which one would lvl faster? foxform & pet or bm?
I'm just curious if light armor build Venomancer will be good for playing in foxform only?
I mean lvling in foxform with pet.
Will that work?
Or If I want to play always in foxform & pet it's better for me to choose blademaster?
Which one would lvl faster? foxform & pet or bm?
Post edited by dabrozwadowski on
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Comments
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Well, I dunno about earlier levels, but at 60+ BMs are pretty much the fastest lvlers out of anyone, as they can AoE grind...
if you want to go fox form only, best to go heavy fox build... follow the sticky.HT clerics at their finest:
hari: can you do mdef debuffs? makes the fight go faster
naughty_x: waste, I do more damage without them
hari: ...you do more damage in 2 seconds than reducing mdef by 35% for 4 casters does in 20 seconds?
naughty_x: is waste, i do more damage
hari: 3-3 BH goes a lot faster with a sin
naughty_x: no, only a difference of like 3 minutes
hari: ...we've been in here a lot longer than 3 minutes already
naughty_x: your opinion0 -
It is possible. I'm doing it, and I find that it works very well. But I don't know if it's faster than a blademaster. I just bet that you have a better survivability, thanks to your pet.
I do not recomment using heavy armor, but light armor. You pet still tanks, and light armor gives enought defense for the rare case when you get hit.
look here for some details: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=246471
If you feel like doing it, just ty it!0 -
dabrozwadowski wrote: »Hello.
I'm just curious if light armor build Venomancer will be good for playing in foxform only?
I mean lvling in foxform with pet.
Will that work?
Or If I want to play always in foxform & pet it's better for me to choose blademaster?
Which one would lvl faster? foxform & pet or bm?
Fox Form Veno with Pet will outspeed a BM so much that it would make the BM's head spin lol. They cannot deal Damage but you can Tank & Deal Damage and even Kill 2 to 3 Monsters at the same time but honestly...Forget the Light Armor. Light Armor is junk for a Fox Veno. Go with your main plate and pants as Heavy Armor of the highest you can use, the Bracer and Boots as Arcane and your Necklace & Belt with high Evasion bonuses. Light would almost work due to your evasiveness but you do not need Dex for accuracy as a Fox and if you sink points into it you will gimp your damage horribly. You have to have almost = amounts of Str and Magic (Magic to power your skills and to allow you to equip worthwhile weapons and Str to make your hits mean something more than a nerf bat. If you do not out damage your pet you are probably doing something wrong TBH) with a bit of Vit and Dex thrown in early but about 40 Vit and 30 Dex max.
That mix of equipment will keep you safe from Physical Damage, Elemental Damage, & Damage in general when they miss you because of Befuddling mist. Use slots in armor to add to your evasion where you can and you can Solo very well and are still quite useful for party fighting once you learn to Pull and get Amplify Damage.
Do keep one very important thing about Fox Venos in mind though: All your skills will be based on Physical Attack Damage, NOT MAGICAL, so use Physical Attack boosting Rings and Similar Stones in your "Magic Weapon" of choice and always look for the highest Physical Attack on those crappy Magic Weapons you must use. (This is also why having no strength means having no damage output because Strength increases how much Physical Damage you deal as well as how much Physical Resistance you have)
Also, as a Fox Veno do not be afraid to get in the face of your enemy and beat them up. You are not a squishy mage as a Fox and you can fight right up there with your pet though I would advise against a Golem as they are slow and ill suited to deal the damage output you need. I would go more with a Sharptooth wolf but that is my experience. You are essentially a light Tank Damage Dealer as a Fox Veno with your Pet acting as a full out Tank with you as its Cleric. The Fox Veno can be a LOT of fun and very rewarding and refreshingly different from any "Mage Class" so much so most people will not know what to expect from you which can be a serious advantage heehee.
Non-Fox Form spells you may want to consider will be Metabolic Boost, Nature's Grace (Not very important but worth getting with Extra SP if you have it) and Bramble Guard (Get it, Max it, Cast it on yourself and friends then shift to Fox and enjoy).0 -
I don't agree about the damage output and light/heavy. Read the link I posted. Light armor is not that bad, and I think it's better for leveling.
In short, heavy armor stops you from using the last weapon for your level, and the higher str is not enough to have better damage. Don't forget the skill Melee Mastery which will amplify the effect of your weapon.
For the pet, the best dps and max damage hit I've found so far is the scorpic. But take the one you like.0 -
TLDRHasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Fox Form Veno with Pet will outspeed a BM so much that it would make the BM's head spin lol. They cannot deal Damage but you can Tank & Deal Damage and even Kill 2 to 3 Monsters at the same time but honestly...Forget the Light Armor. Light Armor is junk for a Fox Veno. Go with your main plate and pants as Heavy Armor of the highest you can use, the Bracer and Boots as Arcane and your Necklace & Belt with high Evasion bonuses. Light would almost work due to your evasiveness but you do not need Dex for accuracy as a Fox and if you sink points into it you will gimp your damage horribly. You have to have almost = amounts of Str and Magic (Magic to power your skills and to allow you to equip worthwhile weapons and Str to make your hits mean something more than a nerf bat. If you do not out damage your pet you are probably doing something wrong TBH) with a bit of Vit and Dex thrown in early but about 40 Vit and 30 Dex max.
That mix of equipment will keep you safe from Physical Damage, Elemental Damage, & Damage in general when they miss you because of Befuddling mist. Use slots in armor to add to your evasion where you can and you can Solo very well and are still quite useful for party fighting once you learn to Pull and get Amplify Damage.
Do keep one very important thing about Fox Venos in mind though: All your skills will be based on Physical Attack Damage, NOT MAGICAL, so use Physical Attack boosting Rings and Similar Stones in your "Magic Weapon" of choice and always look for the highest Physical Attack on those crappy Magic Weapons you must use. (This is also why having no strength means having no damage output because Strength increases how much Physical Damage you deal as well as how much Physical Resistance you have)
Also, as a Fox Veno do not be afraid to get in the face of your enemy and beat them up. You are not a squishy mage as a Fox and you can fight right up there with your pet though I would advise against a Golem as they are slow and ill suited to deal the damage output you need. I would go more with a Sharptooth wolf but that is my experience. You are essentially a light Tank Damage Dealer as a Fox Veno with your Pet acting as a full out Tank with you as its Cleric. The Fox Veno can be a LOT of fun and very rewarding and refreshingly different from any "Mage Class" so much so most people will not know what to expect from you which can be a serious advantage heehee.
Non-Fox Form spells you may want to consider will be Metabolic Boost, Nature's Grace (Not very important but worth getting with Extra SP if you have it) and Bramble Guard (Get it, Max it, Cast it on yourself and friends then shift to Fox and enjoy).
Darling you need a magic weapon to use skills in fox form. That cripples your damage a buttload, and absolutely calls for LA
. Youll be able to equip better magic weapons and not rely totally on melee. You aint gunna out level any axe BM, ever either.
I think melee foxform would just be a pain in the butt to level, even with the pet to help. If you wanna go animal shapeshifting and have nice damage with melee, make a barbs :P0 -
So If I aim for 1 vs 1 (me vs mob) grinding I should choose a BM fist style?
It will be better for 1 vs 1 with mob than foxform & pet?0 -
I'm leveling a melee foxform, and so far I don't find it slow to kill or something.
A barb is a pain in whatever you want to level because of his low damage (and no pet to help), and it's even lower in tiger form.
I personnaly think that considering the time you'll last leveling your char, just take one you enjoy. As for BM weapon, aim for the one you like (fast weak hits or slow strong hits). If you like fox form, just do it, it's very doable.0 -
So I have to decide between foxform veno and fist blademaster...
Hard decision...
BM will get nice eq since I pay only for charms... Veno will be collecting all the gold for herc and pheonix...
Tough decision... I just want to one who will grind faster in his way....
What You ppl think?0 -
Try them both ;-)
As an option : why do you want so hard to grind as fast as possible? Why is grinding more important than you char?0 -
dabrozwadowski wrote: »So I have to decide between foxform veno and fist blademaster...
It's the axe/hammer blademaster that has the AOE skills. It's pretty fun watching them grind - almost like a mini-zhen.0 -
nononononono the word fist should not be in your vocab! if you want 1v1 fighting as a BM, go sword or dual blade. Theyre way better offensively( Optimal speed vs damage here). If you have the money, go axe and youll level like crazy.
@Succubae-
Axe barbs do -not- have low damage >_>; in your higher levels, after application of skills on the mob, you can kill it 2-3 melee hits. With their own def breaking skills, a long lasting stun, + @ 70 when you can start using calamity axes, youll notice barbs arent ask weak as you think :P0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »TLDR
Darling you need a magic weapon to use skills in fox form. That cripples your damage a buttload, and absolutely calls for LA. Youll be able to equip better magic weapons and not rely totally on melee. You aint gunna out level any axe BM, ever either.
I think melee foxform would just be a pain in the butt to level, even with the pet to help. If you wanna go animal shapeshifting and have nice damage with melee, make a barbs :P
There is a quest reward wand: Wand of Colors with no magic requirements. HA venos have a high strength which adds to the physical damage done with the magic weapon, but most fox form damage skills say "Inflicts base physical damage plus X damage" which means a veno should deal the same damage in fox form with those skills whether or not a weapon is actually equipped.
Also, Fox Form skills say "Unarmed, Magic Instruments" which means they can be used barehanded.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »I don't agree about the damage output and light/heavy. Read the link I posted. Light armor is not that bad, and I think it's better for leveling.
In short, heavy armor stops you from using the last weapon for your level, and the higher str is not enough to have better damage. Don't forget the skill Melee Mastery which will amplify the effect of your weapon.
For the pet, the best dps and max damage hit I've found so far is the scorpic. But take the one you like.
Right now I out DPS a non-tiger barb of my level with my build so I suspect the damage loss is very noticable. Getting a higher level weapon faster is not that big of a deal because our weapons are horrible for physical attack anyway and if you get a good 3* of a slightly lower level it can easily last you past the baby step weapons onto the next one.0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »There is a quest reward wand: Wand of Colors with no magic requirements. HA venos have a high strength which adds to the physical damage done with the magic weapon, but most fox form damage skills say "Inflicts base physical damage plus X damage" which means a veno should deal the same damage in fox form with those skills whether or not a weapon is actually equipped.
Also, Fox Form skills say "Unarmed, Magic Instruments" which means they can be used barehanded.
Nice thought...but...No, sorry. The Base it is talking about includes our weapon damage and Melee Mastery buffs that even further. If I have no weapon equiped I suffer a very noticable drop in DPS but with my weapon I have some truly noteworthy killing power.
Using our skills barehanded...is...weird...I have no idea why it even allows us to do it TBH because it does not help in any way unless you want to use skills during a fist-fight LOL which can be fun.0 -
Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Right now I out DPS a non-tiger barb of my level with my build so I suspect the damage loss is very noticable. Getting a higher level weapon faster is not that big of a deal because our weapons are horrible for physical attack anyway and if you get a good 3* of a slightly lower level it can easily last you past the baby step weapons onto the next one.
^^
Got to agree with this poster. I imagine we have a similar build.
Damage isn't a problem. Sometimes I steal aggro from my golem even when it has bash on. And when you find a good weapon with these types of builds, you're going to keep them for a very long time.
A lot of the damage we do in foxform has more to due with our extra strength than it does our weapons damage.
How about this. Try building a light and a heavy veno. When you get around level 40-50, duel a barb near your level (barbs love trying to duel with my foxy). I guarantee you'll never go back to light. ^_^0 -
Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »Nice thought...but...No, sorry. The Base it is talking about includes our weapon damage and Melee Mastery buffs that even further. If I have no weapon equiped I suffer a very noticable drop in DPS but with my weapon I have some truly noteworthy killing power.
No, what you are talking about is non-skill melee damage, not skill damage. The skills specifically state "Base Physical Damage", and not "Weapon Damage".
For example, Venomous Scarab reads "does base Magic damage plus 100% weapon damage plus X damage". IF Fox Wallop or any other fox form skill used any percentage of weapon damage the skill would read as Venomous Scarab does. An example of what I mean comes from the Blademaster skill Aeolian Blade which reads "deals base Physical Damage + X% of weapon damage + Y".[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
lets run a test of that, ill go try it and document my results right now0
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here we are. Looks like it DOES include weapon onto the "base physical damage" I think the x% of weapon damage is added on top of it as a bonus when it comes to those other skills you refer to lazer, like (base) + x% of base + (fixed dmg) = total before resistances/level differences are calculated in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sFJW3MvbNw0 -
I've decided to make a Blademaster.
In Fist way I guess cuz I aim for 1 vs 1.
Good choice?0 -
dabrozwadowski wrote: »I've decided to make a Blademaster.
In Fist way I guess cuz I aim for 1 vs 1.
Good choice?
no. sword or dual blade is way better in 1v1 combat, in both mobs and PVP0 -
So sword or maybe these common axes?
And how about polearm?0 -
polearms specialty is its bleed damage, theyre pretty nice in 1v1 pvp too.
has nice range and knockbacks.
axes specialize in AOEs and stuns
swords have knockbacks, and nice debuffing skills0 -
Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »here we are. Looks like it DOES include weapon onto the "base physical damage" I think the x% of weapon damage is added on top of it as a bonus when it comes to those other skills you refer to lazer, like (base) + x% of base + (fixed dmg) = total before resistances/level differences are calculated in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sFJW3MvbNw
Um, try writing the numbers down since the video makes them unreadable.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
bleh **** the numbers, look how much slower the killing is in the unarmed test even using skills, isnt that enough >_>?0
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dabrozwadowski wrote: »I've decided to make a Blademaster.
In Fist way I guess cuz I aim for 1 vs 1.
Good choice?
If you are going to go BM, I highly recommend going to the BM forums and reading the BM guide.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=143481Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »bleh **** the numbers, look how much slower the killing is in the unarmed test even using skills, isnt that enough >_>?
Except the game is based on numbers, not observations which means that only by looking at the numbers will you get anywhere.
Human form with 102 strength and no weapon, my veno has 52 Physical Damage. In Fox Form with no weapon she has 73 Physical Damage which means that 12 of the Human Form damage is possibly considered as "weapon damage" for the purposes of Melee Mastery.
Her Befuddling Mist does base + 474.7 physical damage, and in attacks on frail blobs with no weapon was doing 444 damage. Her melee attacks were doing 59 damage, and with a base melee of 73 meant the blobs had a physical DR of 19%. With a physical DR of 19%, Befuddling Mist was doing 444 which is ~81% of the stated addon damage + 81% of her physical damage. That number was pretty static except sometimes it only showed her doing the damage that Befuddling Mist was inflicting without the additional "base physical damage" which was odd.
Now, with her weapon equipped, her Physical Damage goes up to 373-472, of which 185-250 is the Weapon Damage which means her base damage should be ~178-222. This is important to note since when she goes to fox form, the weapon damage gets amplified by Melee Mastery, and increases to 335-446 weapon damage, including the 21 point increase that you get without a weapon equipped. That leaves ~177-220 that can be attributed to the characters Strength/level with a weapon equipped.
In Fox Form, melee damage is all of the Physical Damage, and the average of that is ~476 after applying 19% DR, and the average of her attacks over 32 attacks came out to ~476, and removing the average of the non-weapon damage leaves ~315 damage to attribute to the Weapon itself which matches the average of the amplified damage from the glaive after 19% DR. Also, in Fox Form, her Befuddling Mist was hitting for ~853. After the add-on damage is taken out, that leaves ~470 average damage. Take out the average base physical damage, and that leaves ~309 damage which is ~98% of the average weapon damage.
The conclusions here are that the game is including part or all of the weapon damage in the Fox Form skills, and that equipping a weapon also amplifies the character's bonus physical damage gained from strength.
*sigh* hypothesis was wrong. <.< Oh well. Yay at refuting my own hypothesis. b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »*sigh* hypothesis was wrong. <.< Oh well. Yay at refuting my own hypothesis. b:chuckle
Been there, done that. b:laugh0 -
baritomaris - Sanctuary wrote: »A Lot Of The Damage We Do In Foxform Has More To Due With Our Extra Strength Than It Does Our Weapons Damage.
How About This. Try Building A Light And A Heavy Veno. When You Get Around Level 40-50, Duel A Barb Near Your Level (barbs Love Trying To Duel With My Foxy). I Guarantee You'll Never Go Back To Light. ^_^
No, no and no. I did the computations, and weapon is a huge part of the damage, due to Melee Mastery.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=246471
If you duel a barb, the insane Pdef of a heavy veno in fox form is the only advantage over a light veno. If you get no damage, of course you'll win... Try duel a mage or a cleric in your heavy armour...0 -
Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »If you duel a barb, the insane Pdef of a heavy veno in fox form is the only advantage over a light veno. If you get no damage, of course you'll win... Try duel a mage or a cleric in your heavy armour...
Or try duel a cleric in light armor.. Without ur pet, you'll be as dead as u can be...*Semi retired*0 -
Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear wrote: »Or try duel a cleric in light armor.. Without ur pet, you'll be as dead as u can be...
Yup, but slower than a heavy... ;-)
I just wanted to point out that the big advantage against a barb is the Pdef, not the damage.
Still, the biggest advantage is what you have between the chair and the keyboard...0
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