Exactly how much lower is the atk (LA->Arcane robe)?
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I always heard that since u put points to dex instead of mag, you would experience a damage loss (which makes sense cuz the amount of points for magic has a huge impact on your magic attack), but what is the exact difference?
I currently have a lvl56 cleric, and with cyclone I hit around 3.2k on wood mobs (vipion revolutionary)(with mag atk buff lvl10 and metal mastery lvl1). How much should I expect my cyclone would hit the same mob if I restat to light armor?
I currently have a lvl56 cleric, and with cyclone I hit around 3.2k on wood mobs (vipion revolutionary)(with mag atk buff lvl10 and metal mastery lvl1). How much should I expect my cyclone would hit the same mob if I restat to light armor?
Post edited by ghui on
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The difference grows over time. At lvl 30, LA hits at 93% base dmg compared to Mag robe of same level, at lvl 100, 75%.0
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Difference depends on (1) your level, (2) your equipment. Attack spells have fixed part (predefined damage + weapon's %%), so unless your magical attack is much higher than that fixed part difference is not really big. You can calculate exact values with the help of http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ and http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php.
For example, let's take 75 cleric with Grief's Breath +5. For LA and vit build (mag stat is the same: just for requirements of weapon) matk is 2326-2725; for full mag build it is 3308-3877. Max pure damage of cyclone will be 2725 + 804 + 1372.6 = 4901,6 for LA/vit and 3877 + 804 + 1372.6 = 6053,6; then it'll be reduced by metal defence (say 40%), so real damage will be 2940,96/3632,16 in pve and 735,24/908,04 in pvp.--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0 -
It ends up with LA/Hyrbid to need one extra hit to cover the difference with the pure build or LA can surpass it with a crit (but better not depend entirely on luck). LA does have highter crit rate due to the extra dex.
Bottom line they end up beeing almost equal. I say go for survivality over dmg, others might say the opposite.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
1 extra hit? more like 2 or 3. at 8x, the damage is very significant. light armor is for people who fear archers. if you really, REALLY want to wear light armor; and really, REALLY want to hit a lot of crits, be a damned archer, k?0
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Just bring the numbers, Forp. Please.Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »1 extra hit? more like 2 or 3. at 8x, the damage is very significant.--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0 -
pure: 3442-4662
la: 2576-3489
those are raw numbers at level 80. assuming they both have an unrefined, ungemmed endless ambiguidy weapon, that's the difference in damage.0 -
Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »1 extra hit? more like 2 or 3. at 8x, the damage is very significant. light armor is for people who fear archers. if you really, REALLY want to wear light armor; and really, REALLY want to hit a lot of crits, be a damned archer, k?
Why do you always have that negative attidute towards everything you don't agree with? no much attention by your papa and mama?
To actually need 2 or 3 more hits you would have to do at least 2k less dmg than a pure build and even the m-attack berely reaches that high of a difference at 8x, let alone dmg done.
You must be a pro.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »Why do you always have that negative attidute towards everything you don't agree with? no much attention by your papa and mama?
To actually need 2 or 3 more hits you would have to do at least 2k less dmg than a pure build and even the m-attack berely reaches that high of a difference at 8x, let alone dmg done.
You must be a pro.
He may be arrogant, but he's also right. Average 2 more hits on a mob at 8x sounds right on mark.0 -
Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »He may be arrogant, but he's also right. Average 2 more hits on a mob at 8x sounds right on mark.
I would say 1 hit and sometimes 2 but never 3 more hits. If we take it as average then LA does kill faster since average crit at my lvl is 1 per 2 mobs, at lvl80 it should be highter. Sometimes I even kill mobs purely with crits, some other times I don't crit for more than 10 mins, some other times I make one crit on each mob, it's not stable.
So average talking the dmg output is about equal, of course pure has highter dmg but on the long run they're almost equal.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »I would say 1 hit and sometimes 2 but never 3 more hits. If we take it as average then LA does kill faster since average crit at my lvl is 1 per 2 mobs, at lvl80 it should be highter. Sometimes I even kill mobs purely with crits, some other times I don't crit for more than 10 mins, some other times I make one crit on each mob, it's not stable.
So average talking the dmg output is about equal, of course pure has highter dmg but on the long run they're almost equal.
1 crit per 2 mobs? How many hits does it take you to kill one mob? In any case, by lvl 80 you'll be be facing same lvl mobs. Unless they changed game mechanics in a major way, I don't see how that can be.b:tired0 -
Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »1 crit per 2 mobs? How many hits does it take you to kill one mob? In any case, by lvl 80 you'll be be facing same lvl mobs. Unless they changed game mechanics in a major way, I don't see how that can be.b:tired
Equal lvl mobs without crits if they are wood they need 4 hits the rest needs 5 hits and that one extra hit is nessecary to take out the 5-10% hp remaining of the mob, with crits they take 4 or 3 hits to die.
I still don't see where people find that great difference. Or the other saying... "after 60 all mobs are mag attack so LA gets owned" right... i see that now.. *rolls eyes*
Oh wait I'm not 80 yet, once I get there the mobs will be doing 5 times highter dmg and have 8 times highter mag def or something like that.. so my LA build will get wooped by them.
That's the kind of replies I always get.. sorry but those replies are not so convincing.
P.S.
The part with the replies is not related to the quote above, just some... "sauce"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »Equal lvl mobs without crits if they are wood they need 4 hits the rest needs 5 hits and that one extra hit is nessecary to take out the 5-10% hp remaining of the mob, with crits they take 4 or 3 hits to die.
I still don't see where people find that great difference. Or the other saying... "after 60 all mobs are mag attack so LA gets owned" right... i see that now.. *rolls eyes*
Oh wait I'm not 80 yet, once I get there the mobs will be doing 5 times highter dmg and have 8 times highter mag def or something like that.. so my LA build will get wooped by them.
That's the kind of replies I always get.. sorry but those replies are not so convincing.
P.S.
The part with the replies is not related to the quote above, just some... "sauce"
this is not related to the thread, but how much hp do u have?
I'm thinking of restating my lvl56 cleric to LA, so I want to get as much info about light armor clerics as possible :P
Thanks,0 -
this is not related to the thread, but how much hp do u have?
I'm thinking of restating my lvl56 cleric to LA, so I want to get as much info about light armor clerics as possible :P
Thanks,
With items unbuffed 2276, I always buy items that give me at least 50 hp bonus among sockets and fill them with hp shards.
This should help you make compares.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3a5855cffcd50766
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8887009902c63b82
generally, when switching to light from pure, you not only sacrafice mdef for pdef, but you get rid of a lot of matk. you're losing more than you gain as light, unless you're a wiz, and have a +100% pdef shield.0 -
Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3a5855cffcd50766
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8887009902c63b82
generally, when switching to light from pure, you not only sacrafice mdef for pdef, but you get rid of a lot of matk. you're losing more than you gain as light, unless you're a wiz, and have a +100% pdef shield.
Good stuff there.b:victory
Mikel_oru is probably just saying this stuff because he's LA.b:chuckle0 -
Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »It ends up with LA/Hyrbid to need one extra hit to cover the difference with the pure build or LA can surpass it with a crit (but better not depend entirely on luck). LA does have highter crit rate due to the extra dex.
Bottom line they end up beeing almost equal. I say go for survivality over dmg, others might say the opposite.
Survivability? Damage? Who cares about damage when your trying to HEAL, or have you been solo grinding so long you forgot your mainly a support class?
The extra damage is just a secondary benefit.
Dex is not helping anyone but yourself, gimping your ability to do your job. Its like you're a carpenter with one hand. You fail.0 -
So...if we compare both type of armors:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=015bc3e2bc1e2fad (modified the vit to 50 cuz I think going pure mag is too dangerous)
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6d2035d0bc4fb8a4
LA:
> More PDef (2179, damage reduction is 41% compare to the 30% for robe --> 11% higher)
> More evasion (426 compare to 174)
> Higher crit rate (7% compare to 3%)
> Higher physical damage (...)
> Higher accuracy (...)
Robe (with 50 vit):
> More MDef (6199, damage reduction is 66% compare to the 58% for LA --> 8% higher)
> Higher Matk (this is the part where I worry the most. ranged from 3.8k to 5k compare to LA's 3.2k - 4.1k)
> Bigger mana pool (7692 compare to 6684)
> Higher hp (cuz of the 50 vit, hp is 500 higher than LA)
hm........hard to choose ._.
I heard that LA on that lvls have nice hp bonus, so the hp difference should be smaller.
(Can LA build wear the +hp helmets?)
The things that really worry me is the loss in mAtk and mana.
Say u use cyclone to hit a lvl80 wood mob, how much would LA build hit, and how much would robe hit?
Will the difference be only a few hundreds, or nearly to 1k?
(for the two defs, I think LA ia actually a bit better: 11% increase in physical damage reduction, compare to the 8% decrease in magical damge reduction)0 -
So...if we compare both type of armors:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=015bc3e2bc1e2fad (modified the vit to 50 cuz I think going pure mag is too dangerous)
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6d2035d0bc4fb8a4
LA:
> More PDef (2179, damage reduction is 41% compare to the 30% for robe)
> More evasion (426 compare to 174)
> Higher crit rate (7% compare to 3%)
> Higher physical damage (...)
> Higher accuracy (...)
Robe (with 50 vit):
> More MDef (6199, damage reduction is 66% compare to the 58% for LA)
> Higher Matk (this is the part where I worry the most. ranged from 3.8k to 5k compare to LA's 3.2k - 4.1k)
> Bigger mana pool (7692 compare to 6684)
> Higher hp (cuz of the 50 vit, hp is 500 higher than LA)
The high vit robe build will also on average be significantly more survivable than LA unless it's for pvp, where your opponent concentrate on physical attacks to exploit pdef weakness. Evasion is insignificant, you're not an archer with high enough dex, you won't be risking dodging physical attacks as a cleric anyway. Crit rate that's high enough to kick in unexpectedly but low enough that you can't count on it only serves to steal aggro in a squad where you don't want to.0 -
the higher pdef is definitly a plus. the evasion isn't enough to mean anything, for either of the builds. crit is cool, but can be gained from rings. unfortunately, you're diminishing a lot of attack and a lot of mdef for a.. 2-3% boost in evasion and a slight increase in pdef, which can be made up with jewelery.
unless you're a wizard, fist bm, or an archer; light armor isn't for you.
this guy kills everyone anyways:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ca06c65fe3d17e830 -
1k of matk isn't exactly a lot due to high fixed part of all attacking spells. In your example average pure damage for cyclone will be 7029,6 for full mag and 5806,6 for LA; this "great" 1223 difference is just 305,75 in pvp against target with 0% mdef and about 100-200 against real target. (And I'm talking about pvp only because it's obvious that LA build is targeted for pvp.) For something powerful like tempest absolute difference is the same but damage greater and so relative difference is small, about 7-10%.Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »generally, when switching to light from pure, you not only sacrafice mdef for pdef, but you get rid of a lot of matk.
Moreover, difference in mdef is not really great, especially when buffed.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0b9ea48b74fc811f
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b8dce48e7b3688ba
8k against 6k? 4.4k against 2.8k is defenitely more. IMO vit build is better for pvp cleric than both LA and pure but LA is still completely viable.--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0 -
Everyone has its opinion, I was a pure mag cleric and if you play your class well with some decent equip (HP shards) you can do it ok until 65-70 maybe... then you just need to re stat to vit build, the only good build for cleric if you intend to play all the features of the game TT-TW-PvP.
And just one thing: WHO cares about magic attack and damage when after 59 you can aoe grind with any bm or zen.... aoe grind is all I have to say!0 -
Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »Good stuff there.b:victory
Mikel_oru is probably just saying this stuff because he's LA.b:chuckle
Numbers are nice to watch but go check actual dmg. You think that 1k m-attack is 1k more dmg? think again. If you were slightly good with maths you would understand what I mean. Also crits... i don't know if it's a bug or a miscanculation by the developers but even 1% crit is great difference and I've seen that with my own eyes I don't throw random judgement or assumations.Corwin - Harshlands wrote: »Survivability? Damage? Who cares about damage when your trying to HEAL, or have you been solo grinding so long you forgot your mainly a support class?
The extra damage is just a secondary benefit.
Dex is not helping anyone but yourself, gimping your ability to do your job. Its like you're a carpenter with one hand. You fail.
Clerics are mainly healers but they are not just healers, they're good on many aspects and that's why I like that class - never played healers before because usually they are purely for healing, that's not the case in PW and we all know that unless you're a newb. Like someone said before "a healer doesn't 1 or 2 shot other players".
About the grinding part, everyone who knows me knows that it takes me days to earn 1 lvl because I don't grind almost at all, I lvl mainly with daily quests fbs and stuff like that.
Come to think of it.... strange, i don't recall a single tank complaining about my heals, not even in TT70 runs me beeing the only Cleric in the party.
You fail.Mothergoose - Sanctuary wrote: »The high vit robe build will also on average be significantly more survivable than LA unless it's for pvp...
A high vit build also has sagnifically less dmg in compare to pure. The real hyrbid build has the same dmg with LA build, or is that news to you? Btw. my hp surpasses most 70+ Clerics and I'm LA, funny no?
Also LA is mainly directed to PvP and not PvE in case you missed that fact.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Few things:
There are more phys def buffs than mag def buffs. The one that is better to increase through buffs is phys def.
Crit comparisons that don't start with arcane have 2X% against LA 3X% are mid or low lvl comparisons only. Even without dex, arcanes can easily get 20% without sacrificing good benefits to get them.
Mag means more the higher your lvl. You get a base of 1 to start with for all classes, and another 1 for every 100 magic. It counts decimals if you're wondering. And with 2/3 of pur mage builds for mag stat, the higher it climbs the less that 1 skews it in their favor. Similarly, the larger the base magic number is, the less percentage that bonus dmg affects it. And for skills that don't have large bonuses, the dmg difference will be much larger. So 400 magic on pure would be 267 magic roughly. 5/3.67 is a base mag atk difference of 36% more. Then you'd have to compare to percent that base magic affects a skill. The higher the magic the bigger the gap between them. The better the gear, the more that difference becomes important.0 -
Obviously all three builds [LA, hybrid and full mag] are doable...there are pros and cons to each of them, but no one from each build has really said they've had a problem with too many deaths or bad healing etc. So it's really up to personal choice. The way I see it is that at a certain point in this game (lvls 65-70+), a cleric needs to have x amount of hp to be able to survive tough bosses in higher dungeons and PvP situations. If you're full mag or LA and can get enough hp through refining the heck out of your gear, then that's awesome-- you can stick with your build. However, vit is just a relatively cheap way to get that hp, which is why I think people are so in favour of hybrid.0
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I always heard that since u put points to dex instead of mag, you would experience a damage loss (which makes sense cuz the amount of points for magic has a huge impact on your magic attack), but what is the exact difference?
I currently have a lvl56 cleric, and with cyclone I hit around 3.2k on wood mobs (vipion revolutionary)(with mag atk buff lvl10 and metal mastery lvl1). How much should I expect my cyclone would hit the same mob if I restat to light armor?
You might want to take the time to find the character emulator, the skills and thier descriptions, and do the math yourself. Unfortunately the character emulator doesn't have all the items you can find in game so your results will be slightly off...but close enough.
As a general rule of thumb the major issue is mAtk. It affects both your damage and your heals. Heals not so much but still a signifigant difference. The amount Mag plays in mAtk grows in the later levels...a rather steep curve. I think the FAC guide touches briefly on this with an excel spreadsheet but not enough I think. I've done a lot of the math on different sites. A lot of the comments here that don't devolve into "you suck" have good points. LA isn't bad for it's purpose. Neither is full Mag. A balanced Vit build gives the best of both worlds if you shard pDef...especially when you hit your 90's ( the armor is incredible ).
If you need a link to character emulation sites let me know. It's worth putting in the time to study and figure out. I mean really...you are willing to put in a year to play the character...why not a few days to figure out exactly where it's going to go?Mark 12:29-37
_WillFire_ 8x Combat Medic0 -
LA is not for clericsWe're MysticAve my name is not Dave
(Poem in the making - Shall be epic)0 -
_WillFire_ - Sanctuary wrote: »A balanced Vit build gives the best of both worlds if you shard pDef...especially when you hit your 90's ( the armor is incredible ).
Where can I find info about that armor set? I wanna see both LA and Robe.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
pwcalc.ru/pwiMikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »Where can I find info about that armor set? I wanna see both LA and Robe.--
PWonline.ru, Sirius: Иней, 70 cleric - off.
PWI, Lost City: Rinnve, 7X wiz (frozen);
Allods Online, Раскол: Риннве, 2X occultist0
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