Mage Veno vs Foxform Veno

Depends a bit on if you get a Herc & Nix pets but let us assume a more normal pet selection.

Both Venos can pull monsters out of groups and let their pets do most of the Tanking while they add in damage and heal but the rest goes like this from what I can see.

Mage Veno Pros|
Cheap to play, does not need to buy Pots, Does not need to Repair.

Can kill things from range while Pet Tanks.

Does pretty solid Damage and their Weapon adds to overall damage nicely.

Can take advantage of Defense Nerfing Skills for their Pet's attack while their Pet usese Magic Defense Nerfing Skills for their attacks.

Easy to balance their Stat Points.


Mage Veno Cons|
Only two attack skills are really worth much for the longest time (read: Boring).

If anything manages to get close enough to hit you, you are dead. Super Squishy.

You only Deal Wood Damage which means Metal Things (lots of them) take less Damage.

Besides you pet you offer nothing to a Party that a Mage could not do better and a Cleric could not leave in the dust.


Fox Veno Pros|
You play a very valuable role in a Party by Maiming Bosses and Monsters with Befuddling Mist (Destroys Accuracy), Stunning Blow (Locks them in Place), and Amplify Damage (Super Super Awesome on Bosses as it makes them die MUCH faster).

You are not so squishy and can handle melee combat right along side your pet and if you play your cards right and watch your HP/MP should never die or get into a situation you cannot escape from with your life.

You get a Life Stealing move (that just HAS to stand alone as an awesome plus)

You can help your Pet survive and do more Damage by Amping harder monsters (Increased Life/Defense) and Misting them so they miss your Pet (assuming you get one with good Evade)

You can Debuff opponents (Mostly useful for PvP but it can be useful at times in PvE)

You can also Destroy Mana & Chi of enemies in PvP if that is your calling not useful vs. Monsters though.

No one plays a Fox Veno so no body will know what to expect when dueling you LOL.

Lastly, You just look so darned cute. Clerics like to help out cute little foxies heehee.


Fox Veno Cons|
You may need to buy potions or at least make your own as an Apothecary because you WILL be taking some hits.

You will need to repair your Weapon at the very least and armor but compared to Tank classes your repair bill will still be nothing.

Managing your stats is more tricky as you will NEED Strength and a mix of Heavy & Arcane armor to keep yourself Tanky with a good emphasis on Evasion without spending too much in Dex.

Magic Weapons SUUUUCK for physical Damage and require obnoxious Magic Requirements. The good thing is your skills and Pet will make up for this in the long run and you can use all that extra Magic to use Arcane Armor and your Mana as an extra Life Tank when you need to (Soul Shift I think is the skill's name for that).

You have no Ranged Attacks whatsoever, which makes killing Bosses alone a bit harder but usually you can handle normal mobs better than a Mage Veno (no dying because you accidently Aggro a monster yourself, you can take it)

You cannot cast Brambles, Metabolic Boost, or Nature's Grace WHILE tranformed and shifting to Human form during combat = Death

Lastly, no one plays Fox Venos so no body will really understand how you work and how you should be played lol. (Unless you contact me in game)


In conclusion I would say either class is fully viable even at high levels and can solo just as well as the other. Nix and Herc make either class over powered and make you feel a little more redundant as a combatant when you are a Fox Veno but they are NOT a normal Pet by any standard. Fox is a lot more USEFUL in a Party so if you like being in groups you may want to go that route if you prefer to Solo everything then Mage is probably better. Mostly it is a matter of person preference and taste.

Hasukurobi is very correct in her description
the way i see it is,
mage = pve
fox form = pvp

i choose fox form and lvling is slightly slower due to not beinging able to maintain mag requirement b:surrender
but in the other end, i was really successful in pvp(duels)

for those of u who is gonna start complaining that duel is nothing, it is a simulation, so it pretty reliable

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Fox Veno Pros|
You play a very valuable role in a Party by Maiming Bosses and Monsters with Befuddling Mist (Destroys Accuracy), Stunning Blow (Locks them in Place), and Amplify Damage (Super Super Awesome on Bosses as it makes them die MUCH faster).

You can help your Pet survive and do more Damage by Amping harder monsters (Increased Life/Defense) and Misting them so they miss your Pet (assuming you get one with good Evade)

You can Debuff opponents (Mostly useful for PvP but it can be useful at times in PvE)

I'm a mage veno and maxed my fox form, keep my Amp Damage & Purge as high as I can get them. I'm constantly going back and forth during boss battles to Amp and nuke.

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Fox Veno Cons|
You may need to buy potions or at least make your own as an Apothecary because you WILL be taking some hits.

You will need to repair your Weapon at the very least and armor but compared to Tank classes your repair bill will still be nothing.

I play in fox form the majority of the time and I have never bought a potion, except for once in level 20 when I was new and didn't know anything. And you still need to repair your weapon when you play in human form.

Other than that your list of pros and cons is quite accurate.

Nyxeris - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wonder if it's possible to play foxform w/ melee + debuff skills and true form w/ magic + range both. I want to be able to switch between those two when I need the diff. abilities, but is it possible to play foxform well enough with arcane???
Not asking for brilliance, just efficiency.

Also, do I need to add in strength? So far I've been going with pure mag. But I only want to deal with debuffs not that much close range action

Foxform abilities are based off of physical damage, so they might not be very effective for damage wise if your pure arcane build.
But if you're just going for the debuffs part, and not so much damage part, then it would probably be okay.

Though, if you want melee damage with it, most people go light build, for a balance between magic and melee damage.
Though your arcane nukes won't be as much damage as pure arcane, you can use both sides of the skill tree.

I can't say much of the mage veno. I played it for like 10 lvl, but I really didn't like to play it, so I stopped. I think the main pro and con is that it's an excelent solo class. You can do anything yourself, but you also will do everything yourself.

On the foxveno, a character I really like to play, I don't fully agree with Hasukurobi. The most interesting part of the foxveno is the multitude of different possible builds. Arcane + Heavy isn't a must at all, and there are various different strategies that work to efficiently play it. I play a pure fox veno with light armor, and it works really well. Arcane + heavy can be better, that's true, but it's way more expensive (you'll need specific added bonusses) and needs a lot of calculating and searching.
I also have 2 foxvenos in my friendlist. They use other builds then me, and we often discuss on strategies, pets and builds. I have a really cheap-to-grind debuff/party build. One of them is going arcane + heavy more orientated to future pking, and the other is golem + fox solo build. All three builds seem to work well.
The major downside of a foxveno is that most players don't know what you can add to party. They want you to do the same thing as a mage veno, but that isn't always compatible with your build. (I refuse to tank, because I believe it's the barbs job) However, if you can convince them you're usefull with debuffs, they will like it.

@Nyxeris
You can combine fox + humanoide. Simply take the light armor build (1str, 1dex, 3mag every lvl). This will allow you to use the latest mag weapon, and you won't be squishy in foxform. Don't use arcane only in fox, you will be to fragile and in fox the extra mag won't give extra damage. I know someone who uses a hybrid build like this. She uses venemous/ironwood scarab in humanoide, and beffudling mist and amplify damage in fox (mainly), according to her mood and the situation. Heavy + arcane can also work for a hybrid build.

I've played pure magic human form veno, light armour mage/fox and heavy armour mage and fox form. I'm personally biased against light armour and i'd only recommend it if you wanted physical defense+crits in human form as a mage, otherwise it's usless in fox form.

Reason it's useless is because yes, you get alot of accuracy and evasion.. but that's all you get. Heavy armour build calls for str and dex which gives you the physical attack which you need and dex for a little bit of accuracy and evasion. Light armour can never even hope to compare the insane amount of physicsal defense you get as a heavy armour build. Fully buffed, heavy armour and fox form I get 16.9k physical defense.

But if you're stuck between the two forms, why not play both? But not as light armor,
as heavy. The fox form skill requires you to have either a magic or no weapon to transform, so we can still utilize our mage form and use robes for magic defense when we need it. This is by far better than light armour and pure arcane. I'm able to use both of these forms for both pve and pvp, my physical defense allows me to solo some physical aoe bosses light armour and mages can't.

I know the magic attack is a little less than pure arcane venos but even pure arcane venos compared to clerics and wizards have much less magic attack. So what's a little bit of magic attack for physical attack+defense and all round better survivalbility?
Also if you're mage veno you're pretty useless in TW ..not unless you can stay out of sight and snipe people with your flesh ream pheonix.. but that can't be fun.

As a heavy armour/robe veno, you wont always have the up-to-date armour and weapons.. I only just got enough magic to wear a level 80 magic weapon at level 84, also wasn't able to wear level 80 heavy armour until about 83 I think. Around 90+ you should be able to wear both weapon+armour your level if you plan it right with the stat bonuses from your other EQs (helmet, necklace, belt ect)

All mages can offer in a party is luring, their attack isn't worth much compared to wizards/archers and other DDs but foxes can bring luring+faster boss kills (amplify damage) TTs run much faster with this, and if my pet should ever die i'm a back up tank taking the hits from the boss with a cleric healing whilst I revive my tank, so no party wipes

Finra - Sanctuary wrote: »

If we're gonna be tanks, apart from the extra dmg and maybe a backup, what's the use of a herc then??

Epic necro. Also, not everyone wants to be a traditional Veno (aka a Herc's healing bish)

Necro much? -.-