What do you think of SELF-HEALING in DUELs?

Dc_butterfly - Lost City
Dc_butterfly - Lost City Posts: 6 Arc User
edited March 2009 in Arigora Colosseum
As far as I know, most classes is blessed with some sort of healing power in PVP.

BMs have Sutra, but only if you have a spark.
Mages can cast instant heal, but the cast is quite slow.
Barbs have a skill that also allows them to heal over a short period of time using spark.
Venos can swap HP/MP, once of course. (techinically means veno's HP x2)
Clerics - self explanatory.

Only exception is the archer.

Now here is the question.

Is healing considered fair in duels?

Here is my opinion:

Melee vs Melee
There is really no point in healing yourself, it only prolongs the fight.


Melee vs Magic
Consider this scenario: a cleric runs out of range after every attack just to heal himself/herself while the BM tailing behind can only use sutra once in 30 sec. You could say: just stun that cleric so they cant spam ironheart. Well, here's the thing, stuns dont land everytime!
Could you imagine a cleric putting "sleep" on the melee class every few seconds just to heal him/herself up?
Is this fair for the melee class?

Magic vs Magic
Clerics obviously have the greatest advantage when healing is allowed in duels.
Since magic casting takes time, clerics can constantly spam ironheart at themselves while their opponent is channeling another magic attack.
The duel will go on endless until the cleric runs out of MP. (around 7k mp >.>)
Not to mention the cleric could sneak a few plume shots at you, or maybe even use tempest after gaining 2 sparks.
Post edited by Dc_butterfly - Lost City on
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Comments

  • sillyfoo
    sillyfoo Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Self healing is fine. I am a archer and i have no qualms about self healing. In duels pots are not allowed except mp pots and has to be discussed b4 hand if its allowed by both participants. PK there are no rules. Duels you lose some you win some its the way it is. Learn and adapt.
  • bobzilla21
    bobzilla21 Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    self-heals are fine in duels, I suppose. If you're using pots, its perfectly fine if you want to waste their money. It's bad if a 3rd person is healing though.
    I figured I should do something with my sig, so I made this for fun. My very first (poorly made) animation. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As for why Luffy is murdering Naruto, I have no idea either, but it looks cool.b:laugh
  • Dusk - Lost City
    Dusk - Lost City Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    if cleric's couldn't self heal themselves, i'll one to three shot them in every duel. heal is perfectly fine.
    ☺☻
  • Inna - Heavens Tear
    Inna - Heavens Tear Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    There is a 40 second cool down time for the sleep spell. clerics are the slowest class, I would advise AGAINST running if you are a cleric because you wont get anywhere anyway.

    And i think it's fair game to use whatever skill you have that is available to you.
  • Zdolnoc - Sanctuary
    Zdolnoc - Sanctuary Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Mag vs Mag can go either way in my opinion. It can go really fast or it can go really slow. It just depends on the build of the character you're using.

    Ex: My lvl 55 wizard with an Arcane full int build would get dropped in 2-3 hits by any class and that was with them being 10 lvls below me.

    But at lvl 61 I decided to rebuild him to a light armor build. Now I can handle most any class that comes at me.

    I'm getting off subject though. This is Mag vs Mag, not Mag vs Everyone.

    With my arcane build all a Cleric had to do was drop a few Ironhearts just as the duel started then plume shot the **** out of me and it was over in 3 to 4 hits.

    Now with my LA build I can take a beating and still dish out the damage. The only thing is, that if they keep healing they'll slowly wear away at my hp. So it makes for a long duel unless I have 2 sparks and can drop Blade Tempest on them which does a massive amount of both Fire and Physical damage. I could probably one hit a cleric unless they have time to cast plume shield.
  • Gasoline - Lost City
    Gasoline - Lost City Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Of course healing is fair since it doesn't really make that big difference.
    Duels is only about one thing anyway - who gets the first stun/sleep skill of so heals is like w/e. Unless its 2 heavy armor classes smacking each other silly for 5 min b:surrender.

    Archers using spark + venos flesh ream can even kill clerics through their plume shield, so some stacked heals don't make a big difference.
    And if a clerics use sleep (followed by + debuff + spark) before BM/Archer gets to stun. They loose in 99% of cases.

    Thats the reason why i think duels are very boring. Its all about 1 2 3 GO who has less lag and can use stunning arrow/sleep/etc first wins always YAY. Than your hp charms ticks when its over. And ppl say they won b/c they are skilled when its really all about luck/lag.

    Only thing thats unfair in duels is having to play a wiz. Its the most nerfed duel class in the game since lack of stun skill. Seal is a joke in duel since every class can just run out of range til its over. If i played a wiz i would never duel ever since its kinda pointless...b:sad
  • Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear
    Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Clerics never heal at higher levels, i never ever ever heal literally my mag defence does its job and my plume shell absorbs 80% of phy damage.

    BMs and archers my level.. well I can stack ironheart all I want i will still get ****
    when i was lvl 40 sure stacking iron hearts worked like a charm but after level 60 you just get over killed.
    We're MysticAve my name is not Dave
    (Poem in the making - Shall be epic)
  • Lordexion - Lost City
    Lordexion - Lost City Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    its np about healing, and in case u dunno, a good EA out dmg the healing of a EP (normal atk FTW)b:victory, they can still plume shell but the EA will just kite his elementsb:laugh
  • ananya
    ananya Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I mean without heals wat cud clerics do b:sin
    b:cute b:cute b:cute
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    ananya wrote: »
    I mean without heals wat cud clerics do b:sin

    A lot more than some might think. Clerics are the only thing I truly fear in duels. If you have an attack cleric as your opponent... They HURT. Barbs? No problem. I fight in Fox Form. Purge away their buffs, and spam befuddling mist and leech. Barbs suck with accuracy, and lowering that even further? No contest. Wizards? Get on top of them, lower their channeling time with Fox Wallop, and beat them down with Melee. Archers? Same as barbs. Get right on top of them, and stay there. Another veno? It gets a bit tricky, if caster, Fox, Light, Fox, Heavy, Normal form. Blademaster... Cast. And run. If they have Light Armor, it's a bit difficult, but with Brambles, they still take damage when they hit me. Clerics... I can't touch them. Can't use regular Form, and can't Fox them. A cleric with a good Plume Shot can usually 3 shot me. They don't even have to heal and I'm toast.

    On the original topic, however. I'm cool with heals. It's a skill you have. Telling someone not to use their heals is like saying... I can only beat you when you don't fight to your fullest potential. Now pots, or outside healing? Don't go there. That isn't fair to either of us.

    And just FYI to all curious... I don't use my pets in duels. My default is one on one. Pet only comes out if the other person tells me to summon it. Because for me, and I'll be honest here, duels are all about ego. And beating someone in a duel without even using my class's main advantage is quite a thrill. Of course, if I lose, and they want to call me a noob, or other such terms... I fight them again, this time with said pet. And, yeah. I usually dominate when the pet comes out. I'm not a flesh ream spammer, but nobody stands up very long to an upgraded Golem.
  • nothjingrad
    nothjingrad Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    This really shouldn't even deserve a thread. Clerics can heal themselves, why choose not to take advantage of that?
  • Shano - Lost City
    Shano - Lost City Posts: 289 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    as long as it's a skill then it's fine
    using pots in duel is unfair btw
  • Dusk - Lost City
    Dusk - Lost City Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A lot more than some might think. Clerics are the only thing I truly fear in duels. If you have an attack cleric as your opponent... They HURT. Barbs? No problem. I fight in Fox Form. Purge away their buffs, and spam befuddling mist and leech. Barbs suck with accuracy, and lowering that even further? No contest. Wizards? Get on top of them, lower their channeling time with Fox Wallop, and beat them down with Melee. Archers? Same as barbs. Get right on top of them, and stay there. Another veno? It gets a bit tricky, if caster, Fox, Light, Fox, Heavy, Normal form. Blademaster... Cast. And run. If they have Light Armor, it's a bit difficult, but with Brambles, they still take damage when they hit me. Clerics... I can't touch them. Can't use regular Form, and can't Fox them. A cleric with a good Plume Shot can usually 3 shot me. They don't even have to heal and I'm toast.

    On the original topic, however. I'm cool with heals. It's a skill you have. Telling someone not to use their heals is like saying... I can only beat you when you don't fight to your fullest potential. Now pots, or outside healing? Don't go there. That isn't fair to either of us.

    And just FYI to all curious... I don't use my pets in duels. My default is one on one. Pet only comes out if the other person tells me to summon it. Because for me, and I'll be honest here, duels are all about ego. And beating someone in a duel without even using my class's main advantage is quite a thrill. Of course, if I lose, and they want to call me a noob, or other such terms... I fight them again, this time with said pet. And, yeah. I usually dominate when the pet comes out. I'm not a flesh ream spammer, but nobody stands up very long to an upgraded Golem.

    if you're honestly saying you can beat all those classes without summoning your pet, you must be one hell of a wf... or faced some really lame people.
    ☺☻
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Dusk - Lost City wrote: »
    if you're honestly saying you can beat all those classes without summoning your pet, you must be one hell of a wf... or faced some really lame people.

    It's my build. I have a buttload of Vit at the cost of Mag. I improvised by making a 3star weapon which I then refined twice. I also use gear that boosts Vit and Mag. With gear bonuses and such, I have 73 Vit. And I always keep on top of my armor. The instant I gain a level, I get the newest stuff I can. I'm a support Veno. I can't afford to have crappy gear. I'm the one that keeps an eye on the clerics for those time the tank pulls aggro wrong. High survivability. I don't go down in a few hits. It takes some really hard smacks to take me out. And yes, I honestly can say it. But like I said. Attack Clerics just wreck me. b:surrender I just took down a level 66 Wizard two days ago in a duel. It's all in the strategy. So, maybe they sucked. Maybe I'm good. Either way, I consistantly win duels against people generally around my level. The joys of being a hybrid. People say that you should focus on one thing, saying "You have 100's of ways to annoy a boss, but only one way to kill them." Me? I take the hundreds of ways. That allows my party to do their job better knowing I can improvise no matter what.
  • Nevlik - Heavens Tear
    Nevlik - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    pretty much bms around 70 can beat up clerics in duels. The only way for them to beat me is to use up a ton of mp pots while I use none lol.
  • Cyanea - Lost City
    Cyanea - Lost City Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    I think you should be able to heal in duels. But you should not be allowed to hit me in duels! Hitting me just means you are being mean.

    b:sad
  • Dazels - Lost City
    Dazels - Lost City Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Do wat u must do to win in a dual.


    Bite/scratch hit below the belt dual = Batle = fight = some 1 loses let it not be you! ..


    Like in world pvp dont care about lvs equips or anything for that matter b:pleased
    Ooo I know lets roll pvp server so i can QQ about pking...

    Loving Cyprus the weather is Hot the women are Hot and the beer is cold b:victory
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Dazels - Lost City wrote: »
    Do wat u must do to win in a dual.


    Bite/scratch hit below the belt dual = Batle = fight = some 1 loses let it not be you! ..


    Like in world pvp dont care about lvs equips or anything for that matter b:pleased

    Exactly. One knows the risks they take when they PvP. Your opponents aren't a random mob. They will do whatever it takes to outsmart and defeat you. It's only fair that you do the same.
  • Yourmom - Lost City
    Yourmom - Lost City Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Dusk - Lost City wrote: »
    if you're honestly saying you can beat all those classes without summoning your pet, you must be one hell of a wf... or faced some really lame people.



    Agreed.

    Although, 6x pvp is a lot different than 8x pvp which is different from 9x pvp, so I'd be interested to see how you did at higher levels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • xxprestigexx
    xxprestigexx Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    lol, i didn't read all of these posts but i think self healing is fine in duels, just no pots. Healing skills are part of your skills, so why shouldn't u be able to use them? Call it unfair for a cleric to heal themselfs? well then clerics can tell warriors that stuns are unfair, which would then (i believe) make the warrior a gimp class. I believe, in duels everything goes exept using pills or pots.

    but have u guys ever seen 2 barbs using swing smack aginst (idk the pwi name for the skill) eachother? lol, if the barbs are any good the fight will never end XD
    Leader of CareBears
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Yourmom - Lost City wrote: »
    Agreed.

    Although, 6x pvp is a lot different than 8x pvp which is different from 9x pvp, so I'd be interested to see how you did at higher levels.

    I'll keep you posted. And, honestly... I'm not trying to brag. Just putting out facts. I suck at some things, just like I'm good at some things. On, a sidenote, however... I just got some robes to complement my Light Armor to make caster fights easier. It's a bit costly taking care of two completely different sets of armor... But, hey. If it works, and I have inventory room.... Why not, right? Especially since the only Heavy Armor I can wear just sucks... Less defense than Light.

    Here's my build, for those of you that want to pick it apart.
    Vit: 60 Mag (Level x 3) - 48
    Str: Level + 4 Dex: Level + 4

    Add into account gear bonuses, though.
  • Yourmom - Lost City
    Yourmom - Lost City Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'll keep you posted. And, honestly... I'm not trying to brag. Just putting out facts. I suck at some things, just like I'm good at some things. On, a sidenote, however... I just got some robes to complement my Light Armor to make caster fights easier. It's a bit costly taking care of two completely different sets of armor... But, hey. If it works, and I have inventory room.... Why not, right? Especially since the only Heavy Armor I can wear just sucks... Less defense than Light.

    Here's my build, for those of you that want to pick it apart.
    Vit: 60 Mag (Level x 3) - 48
    Str: Level + 4 Dex: Level + 4

    Add into account gear bonuses, though.


    Ok...so basically light armor build, except that you take a hit to your magic to put points in vit. Actually not a bad idea, and probably what i'm going to do once I can wear level 90 gear.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Do what you want, there's no official rules. But if you're an axe BM and you use sutra and you lose to certain classes/people then you're quite the idiot. (at <75 levels anyway) Duels are just as unbalanced as PK/etc.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Reeperofevil - Sanctuary
    Reeperofevil - Sanctuary Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Well, personally I think it's fine for you to use whatever you have at hand in a duel or in PK. For instance, it annoys me when BMs use sutra when I have almost killed them but I live with it because hey, that's a skill they have so fair to them. As for clerics, they are a class built for healing, why tell them they can't do so? Personally I don't really care, seeing as if I get a critical hit on Armageddon I can 1 hit them, but for a wizard or a BM it could be hard. But I mean, dueling is for fun, unlike PK which people have turned into a a test of your manliness or w/e. This has happened before on my server, and (LOL) somebody actually called someone out for, "cheating" in a duel, which I find ridiculous. But, if it really bothers you that much, just don't duel b:victory
  • copywheel
    copywheel Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    If it is a skill, if you could use it in a real PK fight or TW, then it's fair. The outcome in a real fight could be different if you don't throw everything you've got at your opponent.
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »
    Thats the reason why i think duels are very boring. Its all about 1 2 3 GO who has less lag and can use stunning arrow/sleep/etc first wins always YAY. Than your hp charms ticks when its over. And ppl say they won b/c they are skilled when its really all about luck/lag.

    Only thing thats unfair in duels is having to play a wiz. Its the most nerfed duel class in the game since lack of stun skill. Seal is a joke in duel since every class can just run out of range til its over. If i played a wiz i would never duel ever since its kinda pointless...b:sad

    Sorry but I find this a very boring and not so bright way of thinking, PKing is better than dueling? Are you making fun of yourself or you're making fun of us? In Pk the first shot ALWAYS wins (if you're a caster), hell a Wizard might even one hit you if he hits first... also hitting someone from behind without them knowing you're there.... how's that fair? how can you cal this not boring? - that's why I play on a PvE server.

    My opinion: Duels is the fairest way of fighting, also dmg is reduced by 75% that means that you DO need a strategy since one or two hits will never bring your opponent down. Lag will ALWAYS be in the way in everything you do is it PK? is it Duel? is it TW? everything!

    Of course everyone is bound to his/her opinion...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Yourmom - Lost City
    Yourmom - Lost City Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sorry but I find this a very boring and not so bright way of thinking, PKing is better than dueling? Are you making fun of yourself or you're making fun of us? In Pk the first shot ALWAYS wins (if you're a caster), hell a Wizard might even one hit you if he hits first... also hitting someone from behind without them knowing you're there.... how's that fair? how can you cal this not boring? - that's why I play on a PvE server.

    My opinion: Duels is the fairest way of fighting, also dmg is reduced by 75% that means that you DO need a strategy since one or two hits will never bring your opponent down. Lag will ALWAYS be in the way in everything you do is it PK? is it Duel? is it TW? everything!

    Of course everyone is bound to his/her opinion...


    Damage is reduced to 25% in pvp as well, not just in duels.

    The first shot does not always in world pvp, I kill plenty of people when they hit me first.

    Duels you can only fight 1 person at a time, what if you want a challenge?

    You can easily one or two hit someone in a duel.



    @ Gasoline, try using essential sutra in a duel to cast an ulti as an opening move, that catches people off guard a lot of the time and you'll win duels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    @Yourmom
    Honestly now, wich need more skill? Duel or PK?

    Don't answer out of stuborness...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Yourmom - Lost City
    Yourmom - Lost City Posts: 1,655 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    @Yourmom
    Honestly now, wich need more skill? Duel or PK?

    Don't answer out of stuborness...

    Honestly...pk.

    Duels are easy. Between bramble hood, soul transfer, and a phoenix, good luck beating a decent fox in a duel.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mikel_oru - Sanctuary
    Mikel_oru - Sanctuary Posts: 610 Arc User
    edited March 2009
    Yourmom - Lost City wrote: »
    Duels are easy. Between bramble hood, soul transfer, and a phoenix, good luck beating a decent fox in a duel.

    Again that Phoenix comes into the scene..... if you send that chicken to someone to PK who will win, you can even watch from afar... skill lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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