FB's could be made more reasonable and fun.

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear · February 2009

I really think that these could be changed a bit. Right now they are more frustrating and annoying than good for the person who actually gets them.

For one, having an item (The Call of Duty slip) stuck in your inventory with no real way of getting rid of it is rather annoying. Could it not at least be put into the quest item section? That would seem to make the most sense seems how it IS a quest item and in this way would not take up a valuable slot while you wait to do the quest.

More importantly though why do the monsters for these quests have to be so ungodly hard and deceptive at that? Why not give them the proper level for how hard they hit and how much damage they take. That would give not only better EXP but also make it more obvious how wicked they are because they are NOT the level they appear to be in strength by any stretch. There is no way a person of the level who recieves theses quests can do anything about them themselves or even with people of their level because these beasts would rip them to shreds in seconds. So either they should be toned down just a bit or maybe just wait a bit before handing out the quest until the person stands a chance of actually doing something. Otherwise the whole thing is more of an annoying chore than anything worthwhile or really rewarding. My normal quests reward me almost as well and in those I actually do things to earn my rewards so it feels more valid.

I just did my first one and all I did was follow around some other people staying out of the way so something did not kill me getting all of 1 EXP per monster slain and a tiny bit of Gold now and then. What did I get for a reward at the end? About 3/4 a level of EXP a bit of change, a piece of crystal, and a fairly good weapon...I suppose the shabby reward is fine considering I didn't DO anything but that is sort of my point. Why even get the quest at my level when I could not kill a single one of those monsters? Why make me have to be "Squad Leader" when the Leader is the weakest link and cannot help anyone at all?

I would guess these were supposed to be a community building sort of thing but I really do not see it working too well. I would be fine if the monsters where just strong enough that it took a small party of people the level the quest was given to take the monsters down but right now they would just die repeatedly. (I had tried to combat those guys with full buffs from a cleric and some others buffs going on and I still could only take on one at a time and they did not come one at a time. Even then it was a healing spam fest and I have high def to begin with for my class and level)

Just so the Devs and such know though I am loving the rest of this game quite a lot and I think that you got many things right that many other companies have done very wrong but this one aspect I found rather aggravating. So if you really wanted our suggestions, here is mine.

Katselya - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Final Bosses are ment to be hard, thats why you find a team to do it for you O.o Its not something you can solo, and most of the time the ones doing the fb19 are just following around lvl 80s while they 1 hit everything in there. Their not hard at all once you have actually played the game a little bit and done more than one fb XD Its quite fun to Solo farm fb's and do fb's when your a higher level.

EDIT- and the reason they hit so hard and ect is because they are Elite Mobs, (hence the gold stuff around the box when you click on them). You're getting 1EXP per mob because you in a squad that SHARES Exp and they are way higher levels than you. You have to be squad leader because you're the one who handed in the TAB (Call To Duty: Xenobeast). Being a "Squad Leader" has nothing to do with actually being a leader O.o.. There is many different rewards in drops from the last Boss, Ledgendary molds 3* Items ect, it just dosent drop for everyone and as for getting a 'decent reward', You have to grind on mobs from like 20% at level 40 so concider yourself lucky you can level off quests still..

you will ALWAYS need way higher levels to do your FB Final Boss Cultivation, it's the way the game is build :P I doubt they would change it in any way, and when you are higher, the ones who help in the FB get quite a bit EXP, thats why they have 100 FB Helpers chat rooms.

b:pleased

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Katselya - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Final Bosses are ment to be hard, thats why you find a team to do it for you O.o Its not something you can solo, and most of the time the ones doing the fb19 are just following around lvl 80s while they 1 hit everything in there. Their not hard at all once you have actually played the game a little bit and done more than one fb XD Its quite fun to Solo farm fb's and do fb's when your a higher level.

EDIT- and the reason they hit so hard and ect is because they are Elite Mobs, (hence the gold stuff around the box when you click on them). You're getting 1EXP per mob because you in a squad that SHARES Exp and they are way higher levels than you. You have to be squad leader because you're the one who handed in the TAB (Call To Duty: Xenobeast). Being a "Squad Leader" has nothing to do with actually being a leader O.o.. There is many different rewards in drops from the last Boss, Ledgendary molds 3* Items ect, it just dosent drop for everyone and as for getting a 'decent reward', You have to grind on mobs from like 20% at level 40 so concider yourself lucky you can level off quests still..

you will ALWAYS need way higher levels to do your FB Final Boss Cultivation, it's the way the game is build :P I doubt they would change it in any way, and when you are higher, the ones who help in the FB get quite a bit EXP, thats why they have 100 FB Helpers chat rooms.

b:pleased

Read then post. I did not, nor did I want to, solo this. I expected this to be a group effort...I was hoping for a group of my piers though not a group of uber leveled. But espcially the first FB is overpowered when you have no good skills due to your level so no class is working like they are supposed to and you are all rather frail and unable to kill with any reasonable speed.

As for the Elite Monsters, I never noticed that gold border and it is not very obvious when you are dying. If their names were a different color or a real noticable difference was in place it would have been a lot easier to realize what was going on.

My point still remains, why give the quest to someone who, even with same level friends, will NOT be able to complete it? It is just silly. I makes you feel worthless because you are charged with an important mission but you cannot do anything about it, it just sits there on your list and clogs one spot in your inventory.

/haiku/ - Lost City · February 2009

Well, first off, doing an FB with people the level of the FB is not impossible by any means. However, it will always be easier to find a group of higher levels looking for the exp/rep, unless you are in a guild of similar leveled players because the higher leveled you are, the more exp (and rep, I think) you get from that FB. Get real. If only vastly overleveled players could do it, who would have done it for them?

To do FB19 with a group of level 20s, you would need at least one barbarian, and one or two clerics. Preferably at least one with res just in case. At that level, an axe BM would also suffice. The rest just need to be careful to not pull aggro away from the barb, and the barb needs to hit them all before needing heals because the cleric will be aggro'd for healing him otherwise. If you are careful and treat it with some caution, you will do fine. Of course it will not be as fast & easy as having some level 90s do it for you, but it is definitely doable and if you work together well, it is not hard.

As for Elites, all bosses and such share that name border. It's understandable that as a new player you might not readily notice that, but I guess now you know to look for it. Generally those mobs will hit harder than normal mobs of their level, and have anywhere from 2x-5x the HP of normal mobs (usually around 3x), with the exception of bosses which can have quite a lot of HP as you get higher leveled. These are meant to be tanked by a single person holding aggro with heal on them and a full party of damage dealing classes pounding on it with everything they've got (with pauses if the barb is having issues holding aggro) in order to be killed quickly at their respective levels.

Hrimhari - Sanctuary · May 2009

They Spend so much time making these FB's to make it fun for people yet it seems like they are just wasting The FBs. These are technically instances or should be They would be hell of a lot better if you could use them to level as almost every other MMO i've played has done, cause Grinding gets boring. WoW has awesome instances they offer extra exp compared to solo grinding and its just more fun in a party. The drops are supposed to be better and exp higher the mobs a little harder but not Insane Like these guys are. The dev team could make these be a more important part of the game by adding better item drop rates from even the common elites more exp and less difficulty not insanely easy though. I like risk but dying every 5 seconds isnt fun either.

They could really do a better job with these. They could even rename them and add more quests that can be accomplished inside of them.Seriously why have them there if you just go in with High levels anyway one time only until you are high lvl? I personaly think I could go through them many times if the rewards were better.

FuRiouS_One - Sanctuary · May 2009

technically FBs are of lvl, they are ment to be squad zones meaning you need a full squad to successfully complete them. Sure you can take higher lvls in with you and let them burn throught the zone for you but whats the fun in that?

The ideal squad for any FB is to take 1 of each class with you that are of lvl range for the zone/instance and you will find the challange and fun in the zone more fulfilling and rewarding as if you bring in a few high lvls this will lower any chances of you getting rewarded other then the quest reward itself.

Some may say these bosses/mobs are way too hard for even lvl players but truthfully they were meant to be hard but they are still doable with skilled players and above average gear/weapons.

You even have items such as gaurdian charms and other HP/MP potions to help you along but then again even these items are not needed, these items are for those that want an easy route and for PWI company to make money to pay for the work they have offered.

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · May 2009

It was your choice to do them with high levels. You can do them with people your level and complete them. Here is the catch, and the part that you have to decide what is more important to you.
1. You do it with a party your level. It will take between 2 and 3+ hours to complete, most likely you will end up loosing exp, since everyone will die a few times.
2. You do it with a high level party. It will take you between 10minutes and 30 minutes. You dont die once, you get almost no exp, but still a little, and you get your reward so you can back to grinding.

Also, as a side note. Technically, there is no way to solo a FB since you have to be a squad leader to use tab.

So the trade off for all FBs is how much time are you willing to spend in it and how much exp are you willing to loose and have your friends loose. Your choices on that will dictate if running a FB with people your level are worth it or not.

Please note that you do not need to complete a single FB to reach end-game content. The FBs are just challanges that give you decent rewards, and they are not mandatory to complete, unlike Cultivation Quests, which you really need to complete them in order to get access to new skills.

Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear · May 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It was your choice to do them with high levels. You can do them with people your level and complete them. Here is the catch, and the part that you have to decide what is more important to you.
1. You do it with a party your level. It will take between 2 and 3+ hours to complete, most likely you will end up loosing exp, since everyone will die a few times.
2. You do it with a high level party. It will take you between 10minutes and 30 minutes. You dont die once, you get almost no exp, but still a little, and you get your reward so you can back to grinding.

Also, as a side note. Technically, there is no way to solo a FB since you have to be a squad leader to use tab.

So the trade off for all FBs is how much time are you willing to spend in it and how much exp are you willing to loose and have your friends loose. Your choices on that will dictate if running a FB with people your level are worth it or not.

Please note that you do not need to complete a single FB to reach end-game content. The FBs are just challanges that give you decent rewards, and they are not mandatory to complete, unlike Cultivation Quests, which you really need to complete them in order to get access to new skills.

Way to go Necroing my post but...

To your last part FB 59 IS also a Spiritual Cult so you are wrong. You CAN complete an FB Solo because Tabs are NOT the FB they are a method by which to bribe higher levels into doing them FOR you. Killing the boss is all that is required to complete the real quest.

You can do them at lower levels but the required teams are stupid crazy like 5 Venos all healing one pet or a tank and his 3 to 4 Clerics spam healing him with at least one Veno to pull monsters so the Clerics don't get creamed during the monster fights. The teams are unrealistic compared to what you will use when running the FB's as you should run them with One Tank and One Healer (be that Pet and Veno or BM/Barb and Cleric does not matter) a puller and some DD for speed if you want. It is just inane that it is set up that way.

To give a nice example of this back when I was lvl 55 I had to struggle to kill one single monster from FB 51...I could do it but it was very hard and required me to heal like mad. What does that mean? That means a group of us could have done it over a looong time peroid but we would have to treat each single monster like a mini boss and for the most part any one of us would be worthless against the monsters or bosses. Why cannot it be a bit more reasonable? I would say one person should be able to take on any single monster in an FB (not the bosses just the normal monsters) when they are of the level without much fear. I mean geeze I have taken on monsters 10 levels my superior and felt less damage than these things deal. Why do they have to be the equivilant strength of 10-20 levels higher than listed? That is just BS designed to make it a strategic nightmare for people of the level they get the quest.

Bosses are another one that is irksome. Some are weak like Farng and then some are insane like Jewel or Krimson. Why tell ME to go kill Krimson when he can just AoE any tank of the level you get the quest to death in one hit? Is that reasonable? Considering the crappy reward I think not. I do not need the boss changed just the level you are supposed to kill them should be moved up to match what it actually TAKES to kill them with a proper squad. (and their reward should be significantly better especially in Krimson's case)

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · May 2009

If nobody tabs you do not get the quest, therefore someone in your party needs to have the tabs in order for you to get the quest (and the person with the tabs needs to be leader). Unlike normal quests the npc just gives you tabs, but no quest, its the tabs, when used on the pilar that give you the FB quest.

You could not complete the FB 51 quest and still get your cultivation part of killing the bosses.

A untabbed run is just a dangeoun run killing stuff, a tabbed run is a QUEST. Big difference. Same way you can kill mobs for grinding or you can kill the same mobs and get credit for a quest if you picked the quest up.

Regarding some of the other cult/quest bosses I agree with you on those... I really can not see a way for people to kill Eyes of the Krimson with a squad of people the same level as when you get the quest.

<your necrology skill has been upgraded to level 3>

Tiaque - Sanctuary · May 2009

Clarification before I continue: On-level = no member more than 5 levels above the level the quest is given.

Everything is this game was designed to be done on level. A squad made up (ideally) of 1 of every class should be able to take everything thrown at them - and yes, it's meant to be a challenge. That's what all the nice EXP is for. A well formed party with good players who know what the heck they're doing should - and can - take on everything.

I've done every FB from 39+ unwined and with an on-level squad at least once. I've done almost every boss available with an on-level squad at least once (and I'm including Jewels and Krimson), without needing a veno to glitch anything.

Yes, there's a good chance you'll die once or twice, and spend a 20k+ on pots and repair bills. But the overwhelming feeling of epic awsomeness you feel after you complete it is worth it. Your wrist and fingers will hurt from spamming skills, but you'll spend the next 5 minutes laughing at the thrill and basking in your own l337ness.

It's all part of the fun ^^

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Tiaque - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clarification before I continue: On-level = no member more than 5 levels above the level the quest is given.

Everything is this game was designed to be done on level. A squad made up (ideally) of 1 of every class should be able to take everything thrown at them - and yes, it's meant to be a challenge. That's what all the nice EXP is for. A well formed party with good players who know what the heck they're doing should - and can - take on everything.

I've done every FB from 39+ unwined and with an on-level squad at least once. I've done almost every boss available with an on-level squad at least once (and I'm including Jewels and Krimson), without needing a veno to glitch anything.

Yes, there's a good chance you'll die once or twice, and spend a 20k+ on pots and repair bills. But the overwhelming feeling of epic awsomeness you feel after you complete it is worth it. Your wrist and fingers will hurt from spamming skills, but you'll spend the next 5 minutes laughing at the thrill and basking in your own l337ness.

It's all part of the fun ^^

The only boss I was not able to ever do with a party on-level (using your definition) is Krimson... Everytime I tried our party got wiped....... And I agree with you, you do get a nice smile on your face after you kill one of those bosses with people around your level right as you get the quest

Hrimhari - Sanctuary · May 2009

I don't think you guys are really getting the point

If any of you have ever played WoW you would probably understand me better (There is a reason it is such a successful game after all) They have Instance but they aren't so damned hard you can do them with 3 good people even though you can have more. They Lvl you pretty fast but not Way to fast, They have good drops for the lvl you can complete them at. And I basically want the FBs to be the same
They spend time on creating these places and they could be used much more often and increase the fun factor of the game if the FB's weren't so damn hard.

My suggestion then is too:

1.Decrease difficulty, no one likes to be wiped every 5 seconds. You have to have some nice gear to do these even with an experienced team. 3-4 people with average gears sould be able to do it that are the same lvl as the instance, cause really finding 1 Cleric is probably hard enough but to find a whole group of dif classes that's almost near impossible unless you start lowbies with a group of friends. There is no fun involved running it with High Levels you just sit there the whole time thinking about atking something.

2. Give more incentives for people to enter the Instance, No one goes into these things unless someone has a tab, but I believe it should be an alternative to Grinding or even questing. One of my favorite things to do in World of Warcraft was to go into the instances mainly to get good gear for my level making grinding easier. Should be way more blue/purple drops in these area's

3. Increase Exp given by these Elite mobs cause its not much or as much as it should be with a full team of same level players

Main concern is #1 just lowering the difficulty would make these FB's so much better. There is still a Chance to get molds off the bosses which would be enough incentive for me to do it as long as the Exp wasn't horrible. Im used to playing counsel games on the Hardest Difficulties But these FB's are pretty much ridicules.

Bravo to those of you who said they have done it with same levels, but would you do it over and over? I think not and that's how I would like them to be.

I know I reference WoW's instances a few times but why not they are actually fun? I want this games Instances to be fun and repeatable too.

epherine · May 2009

I have to agree with the last post, as WoW's instances are much better designed. Not to mention that PW isn't exactly group friendly at times, most people don't even reply when you ask politely if you'd like to group up. On top of that, there's a lack of proper communication, as world chat is too broad and also restricted to those paying for teleacoustics. No one in their right mind wants to run FBs at their level when they can just get higher levels to do it for free, when it comes down to reward vs time.

FuRiouS_One - Sanctuary · May 2009

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If nobody tabs you do not get the quest, therefore someone in your party needs to have the tabs in order for you to get the quest (and the person with the tabs needs to be leader). Unlike normal quests the npc just gives you tabs, but no quest, its the tabs, when used on the pilar that give you the FB quest.

You could not complete the FB 51 quest and still get your cultivation part of killing the bosses.

A untabbed run is just a dangeoun run killing stuff, a tabbed run is a QUEST. Big difference. Same way you can kill mobs for grinding or you can kill the same mobs and get credit for a quest if you picked the quest up.

Regarding some of the other cult/quest bosses I agree with you on those... I really can not see a way for people to kill Eyes of the Krimson with a squad of people the same level as when you get the quest.

<your necrology skill has been upgraded to level 3>

The tab quest only provides exp spirit and rep, it is an option to do. tabs are not required to do the normal quests that give item rewards from the elders nor are they required for doing a dry loot run. Again tabs are only for xp spirit and rep not an actual item rewarding NPC quest.

FuRiouS_One - Sanctuary · May 2009

Hrimhari - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't think you guys are really getting the point If any of you have ever played WoW you would probably understand me better (There is a reason it is such a successful game after all) They have Instance but they aren't so damned hard you can do them with 3 good people even though you can have more. They Lvl you pretty fast but not Way to fast, They have good drops for the lvl you can complete them at. And I basically want the FBs to be the same
They spend time on creating these places and they could be used much more often and increase the fun factor of the game if the FB's weren't so damn hard.

My suggestion then is too:

1.Decrease difficulty, no one likes to be wiped every 5 seconds. You have to have some nice gear to do these even with an experienced team. 3-4 people with average gears sould be able to do it that are the same lvl as the instance, cause really finding 1 Cleric is probably hard enough but to find a whole group of dif classes that's almost near impossible unless you start lowbies with a group of friends. There is no fun involved running it with High Levels you just sit there the whole time thinking about atking something.

2. Give more incentives for people to enter the Instance, No one goes into these things unless someone has a tab, but I believe it should be an alternative to Grinding or even questing. One of my favorite things to do in World of Warcraft was to go into the instances mainly to get good gear for my level making grinding easier. Should be way more blue/purple drops in these area's

3. Increase Exp given by these Elite mobs cause its not much or as much as it should be with a full team of same level players

Main concern is #1 just lowering the difficulty would make these FB's so much better. There is still a Chance to get molds off the bosses which would be enough incentive for me to do it as long as the Exp wasn't horrible. Im used to playing counsel games on the Hardest Difficulties But these FB's are pretty much ridicules.

Bravo to those of you who said they have done it with same levels, but would you do it over and over? I think not and that's how I would like them to be.

I know I reference WoW's instances a few times but why not they are actually fun? I want this games Instances to be fun and repeatable too.

You do realize this is a free MMO and you will never see the mass content here that you see in WoW EQ1-2 and such ever, why? Because its free

.

I too also come from a monthly paid MMO (EQ2) and yes instances there too were fairly easier BUT as most people are lvling most dont even bother going back to an instance once they have dont it once as in those paid MMOs you lvl much faster and there is no need to go back into an instance when you fly through the lvls so fast. Also end game instances (raid) were much harder in the paid MMOs then they are here

.

About incentives you mentioned molds, that the biggest incentive to go back there over and over as im sure you have notice you lvl very slowly in this game and it is worth going back just for the drops if you plan on gearing out in your lower lvls. Best thing to do is just keep questing and do your first few FBs only once till about your 50s when lvling realy slow to a crawl, then it will be well worth it to redo your FB51 zone multiple times just to gear up for lvl 60 and so on.

FB's could be made more reasonable and fun.

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