Into game design?

Loxin - Lost City · January 2009

well, just posting for the hell of it but...

yeah, any of you into game design?
Im in the last year of highschool, and Im going to be heading of to this art college that I want to go to. (hopefully)

I love online games and all, particulerly MMORPGs.
I like to very much study games like this and see how things function.
the pros and cons, the players, the world.

oftne time I have this huge dream of making a game like this for everyone to play. Like out of pure creativity and the want to make something SPECTACULAR!

anyone else have a similar dream or life goal?
(Im also an artist that love his hobby, hahaha)

gattsuru · January 2009

To a decent degree.

A few words of warning, though. Great ideas and underlying mechanics are a dime a dozen, and everyone who wants to be anyone in the field has a thousand. A programmer is worth his or her weight in gold, and a good programmer worth his or her weight in diamond. Learn about the OSI model, about what threading and memory management is, and how rendering works. If you don't understand that, you might as well be counting pies in the sky.

It's easier than ever before to learn programming -- XNA in particular makes console programming a viable one-man hobby, and C# with WPF and Python with graphics addons are another fun pair of entry-level languages for computer work -- and a decent amount of time a day can turn into a nice 2D home-built game within a month. Only through experience will you learn to truly hate the coded-into-registry TCP timeout. It's also easier than every to have The Idea for an excellent and massive project that you'd have no chance of completing nevermind meaningfully testing... so save The Idea for project three or four.

Artists, especially those that really grok the tricks necessary to get the most out of simpler hardware and instructions, are quite valuable, too.

Good luck with the stuff, and I hope you're successful enough that we all see your projects.

dvorak · January 2009

Loxin - Lost City wrote: »

well, just posting for the hell of it but...

yeah, any of you into game design?
Im in the last year of highschool, and Im going to be heading of to this art college that I want to go to. (hopefully)

I love online games and all, particulerly MMORPGs.
I like to very much study games like this and see how things function.
the pros and cons, the players, the world.

oftne time I have this huge dream of making a game like this for everyone to play. Like out of pure creativity and the want to make something SPECTACULAR!

anyone else have a similar dream or life goal?
(Im also an artist that love his hobby, hahaha)

what college were you thinking about?

recently the 'Academy of Art' chain of schools have been upping their efforts into game design curriculum. don't know anyone who's attended those programs so I can't vouch for the quality.

Over on the West Coast, USC has a relatively new program that's quickly been making a name for itself. There's also DigiPen in WA state and The GuildHall at SMU but these are all rather pricey options.

Orihimeie - Sanctuary · January 2009

Dvorak, you into game design??

bobzilla21 · January 2009

I'm still learning basic Java b:cry.
I still have a looong way to go...

Hakuen - Heavens Tear · January 2009

bobzilla21 wrote: »

I'm still learning basic Java b:cry.
I still have a looong way to go...

just a question: what exactly do game designers do for their jobs (besides designing games)? do they think up ideas or make the games themselves??

bobzilla21 · January 2009

I think they do both, depending on how many people are on the project.

Hakuen - Heavens Tear · January 2009

I see...so are there special game designers that make up the ideas for new games and sketch them up? like designers who make up the game and give out the idea for other ppl to actually program it.

bobzilla21 · January 2009

I think they do that for bigger commercial games...
I'm still in high school though, so I'm really just speculating.

gattsuru · January 2009

what exactly do game designers do for their jobs (besides designing games)? do they think up ideas or make the games themselves??

<grainofsalt>I only have experience in a small (donationware) environment, and a few years old at that; I've been in the more business-oriented side of programming and tech support since.</grainofsalt>

It seems to be very dependent on the size and scope of the business. Usually you can tell from the job description, and the position tends to be more about designing or coding together a feature with the big idea part falling into second place, especially in smaller companies. Even the guy leading my last project did as much artwork as planning. Looking at the Lugaru project -- about as good an example of a hugely successful small-group game design shop -- the guy in charge of the project still does a lot of low-level research and coding (by the way, that's a hugely useful link for anyone doing anything in 3D gaming).

Big name projects it's a little different. I'm sure Richard Garriot and Jack Emmert dealt with the nit and grit of things a bit, but when you start seeing the phrase "chief creative officer" around, life starts to be more about getting ideas out. That doesn't mean that their world is just about making the ideas, though; there's a lot of emphasis on marketing, investors, interviews, and business partnerships. Those with more technical experience sometimes get lumped into researching new technologies to implement. It's also not something that's an entry level position, nor the only thing these people do. Matt Miller might be a Lead Designer now, but he started out doing QA and still does design documentation.

Drazo - Heavens Tear · January 2009

I strongly recommend you get into BASIC first. It's as easy as pie compared to most other programming languages. I hear C# is as good as C++ but even easier. It really depends what SDK you use. DarkBASIC Professional is great for single player games while Realm Crafter is a true 3D MMORPG engine and, although still quite buggy, gets updated regularly. Realm Crafter has it's own built-in scripting engine but you can get the source code licence for more customization.

I've done 3 years of ICT at college although the programming and even software design modules of the latter years bearly filled in any holes. But to be employed you're looking at just as many years at college and university with degrees in programming. Also you'll find they'll demand a lot of group and communication skills no matter what area in game des you'll specialise in, as you'll be working in a team working with multiple deadlines, etc regardless.

bobzilla21 · January 2009

Communication skills are a requirement?
My social skills are pretty weak IRL.b:sad

Drazo - Heavens Tear · January 2009

Yes, mostly just for working in a team though. For example they will want you to be able to express ideas and discuss solutions for problem solving, etc. If the game has a lot of content, detail or new sophisticated functions/features, this is crucial.

mysticbandit · January 2009

Hakuen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I see...so are there special game designers that make up the ideas for new games and sketch them up? like designers who make up the game and give out the idea for other ppl to actually program it.

Iv Done a Bachelors in Digital media which covered a lot of game design, and i make flash games as a hobby, to answer your questions; Most commercial game development agencies outsource and contract the work to other companies. Example: Blizzard did not actually make Diablo 2 exclusively, they hired a company named Flag Ship studios to make it.

Game development these days takes just as many people as a Hollywood blockbuster. Each game may have up to 15 artists working under an art director, same goes for the other technical departments. Programmers will only do programming and very very rarely will have an input into the story or games development (unless relevant to the scripts they are writing). Those who have the most interesting positions in this equation are the Project Managers and Creative Directors; those are the fun parts. Modeling and the programming is the equivalent to grinding away a level 70 for that extra level (boring).

Some other major positions involved in a games development,
- Story Boarder : whats the story about, does it make sense? what characters to include etc.
-Art director: describes how things might look.
- Character artist: listens to the art director and makes sketches to give to designers.
-Production Manager: Looks over all the work and nods his/her head
-Landscape modelers : Model all the terrain
-Character Modelers : Specifically model the characters based on art directors vision.
- Music and audio composers, producers: all the dings and dangs
-testers: arguably the best job in the middle income bracket..

and a host of other positions involved

Loxin - Lost City · January 2009

gattsuru wrote: »

To a decent degree.

A few words of warning, though. Great ideas and underlying mechanics are a dime a dozen, and everyone who wants to be anyone in the field has a thousand. A programmer is worth his or her weight in gold, and a good programmer worth his or her weight in diamond. Learn about the OSI model, about what threading and memory management is, and how rendering works. If you don't understand that, you might as well be counting pies in the sky.

It's easier than ever before to learn programming -- XNA in particular makes console programming a viable one-man hobby, and C# with WPF and Python with graphics addons are another fun pair of entry-level languages for computer work -- and a decent amount of time a day can turn into a nice 2D home-built game within a month. Only through experience will you learn to truly hate the coded-into-registry TCP timeout. It's also easier than every to have The Idea for an excellent and massive project that you'd have no chance of completing nevermind meaningfully testing... so save The Idea for project three or four.

Artists, especially those that really grok the tricks necessary to get the most out of simpler hardware and instructions, are quite valuable, too.

Good luck with the stuff, and I hope you're successful enough that we all see your projects.

I have been studying Pylon scripting using the Blender program and such, I know some basic code bit as well. which Is why I want to go to a school to study more and become familiar with it.

also, since Im a artist myself I like to come up with designs for characters and landscapes, or just general stuff that I hold in interest.

this is somthing I really want to get into tho, so Im working hard to get to it.

Loxin - Lost City · January 2009

Drazo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I strongly recommend you get into BASIC first. It's as easy as pie compared to most other programming languages. I hear C# is as good as C++ but even easier. It really depends what SDK you use. DarkBASIC Professional is great for single player games while Realm Crafter is a true 3D MMORPG engine and, although still quite buggy, gets updated regularly. Realm Crafter has it's own built-in scripting engine but you can get the source code licence for more customization.

I've done 3 years of ICT at college although the programming and even software design modules of the latter years bearly filled in any holes. But to be employed you're looking at just as many years at college and university with degrees in programming. Also you'll find they'll demand a lot of group and communication skills no matter what area in game des you'll specialise in, as you'll be working in a team working with multiple deadlines, etc regardless.

I have taken all the avalible programing corses avalible at my school, and Im confident I have a good understanding of most programmming languages. (execpt of Binary...)

I actully have a few hookups in the freelnace gameing industry, my aunt had graduated from the school I want to attend and is currently the Director of a PC game in the works. it called 24hour bloodline.

Loxin - Lost City · January 2009

Dvorak wrote: »

what college were you thinking about?

recently the 'Academy of Art' chain of schools have been upping their efforts into game design curriculum. don't know anyone who's attended those programs so I can't vouch for the quality.

Over on the West Coast, USC has a relatively new program that's quickly been making a name for itself. There's also DigiPen in WA state and The GuildHall at SMU but these are all rather pricey options.

how funny! that is the school I wish to attend!
Im looking into the san-francisco branch.

my aunti graduated from there, and she studied game designe as well!
she is currently the head producer of a freelance game group working on a huge project!

Moe_Markese - Sanctuary · January 2009

Seems that I am amongst friends here!

I am very much into game design. Im a softmore in college now and have been studying all I can about game design since I was 12 XD. Ive learned several programming lanuguages including C++, Pearl, and Visual Basic and plan to learn more. For me this has always been my dream since I was little. Video Games have always facinated me, fueling my desire for a more creative aspect of art. I think of games as an art form rather than an outlet for entertainment. Lol it may sound cheesy but my biggest influence/hero is Shigeru Miyamoto. i personally love everything he has ever made from Donkney Kong to Zelda (my fav XD) He is truly an inspiration and any game maker should look into his story you may find it quite interseting. I first realized I wanted to do this when I was 12 in my English class we had to write a short story. When I began to write so many ideas came to me, and then I drew all my inspiration from the RPGs I played. Soon my short story turned into a 22 page typed story. lol My teacher was beyond impressed and said that I should look into a career in writing. But the artist in me couldnt just met my stories be read they had to be seen. Thats when ii figuered why not put them into my favorite media Video Games. As for now Ive been developing an RPG on my own since I wrote that story I already have the story down, the world map drawn out, and the design for each and every character. All I need to do now is put it on the screen. Thus why Im in college to persue my dream and make it a reality. Im glad to see there are others like me

Sorry about the long post this is just something Im very passionate about! :P

darthpanda16 · January 2009

The following are based on my own personal opinions. b:victory

I've been doing the indie thing since 1996, and the pro thing since 2004.

There is a difference between game design, and game development.

Many schools teach game development under the game design title, but there is actual little design taught.

They either split it into art/graphics, or programming.

Design is like an architect laying out the basis for a beautiful building.

Art is putting the finishing touches on the building.

Programming is providing the tools and constructing the actual building.

That building is your game. Only difference is, game design has to be organic during development, and focus testing done frequently, because the design WILL change to what works, and what doesn't.

Here are some links to help you all learn about game design, and the game development process.

Educational
http://www.gamasutra.com
http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
http://www.gamedev.net/
http://www.igda.org/

Community and Tools
http://www.garagegames.com/
http://www.yoyogames.com/

Schools
http://www.fullsail.edu/
https://www.digipen.edu/

Low-Cost Learning
http://www.gameinstitute.com/
http://www.vtc.com/

EDIT: Make something, complete it, share it. That is how you get credibility and learn. Mods, games, etc.

Also, Start making games from each generation and work forward to today. Start in the 70s/80s pixelated and simple games, and work forward. Try making different genres of games.

It will give you an edge over others, add to your knowledge base, and give you much more appreciation into all games that you see or play.

Moe_Markese - Sanctuary · January 2009

I agree somewhat however I feel all aspects of putting the game together and building certain components to the game are all part of the design. For example when the programmer programs the game. He/she is DESIGNING the movements, events, and various other actions in the game and how they will work. Yes it is development but development is more like how the design part of the project grows and actually forms a game. The art and graphics are also a very large part of design being that not all art and graphics are the same. Because they aren't the same that requires them to have different looks, structures, and styles. Hence they are designed and thus a part of game design. So you see everypart is equally design and development.

Disclaimer
(This not a flame just my opposing view) b:victory

Loxin - Lost City · January 2009

darthpanda16 wrote: »

The following are based on my own personal opinions. b:victory

I've been doing the indie thing since 1996, and the pro thing since 2004.

There is a difference between game design, and game development.

Many schools teach game development under the game design title, but there is actual little design taught.

They either split it into art/graphics, or programming.

Design is like an architect laying out the basis for a beautiful building.

Art is putting the finishing touches on the building.

Programming is providing the tools and constructing the actual building.

That building is your game. Only difference is, game design has to be organic during development, and focus testing done frequently, because the design WILL change to what works, and what doesn't.

Here are some links to help you all learn about game design, and the game development process.

Educational
http://www.gamasutra.com
http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
http://www.gamedev.net/
http://www.igda.org/

Community and Tools
http://www.garagegames.com/
http://www.yoyogames.com/

Schools
http://www.fullsail.edu/
https://www.digipen.edu/

Low-Cost Learning
http://www.gameinstitute.com/
http://www.vtc.com/

EDIT: Make something, complete it, share it. That is how you get credibility and learn. Mods, games, etc.

Also, Start making games from each generation and work forward to today. Start in the 70s/80s pixelated and simple games, and work forward. Try making different genres of games.

It will give you an edge over others, add to your knowledge base, and give you much more appreciation into all games that you see or play.

Oh god you are too awesome!
Thank you very mush for the links and such.

I am more into the design portion, but I do understand coding as well. mainly just so I may understand the full consept of how everything should work. altho I rarely have a place to start, I do what I can.

and also thank you very much for the advice!
I will keep that in mind!

Loxin - Lost City · January 2009

Moe_Markese - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree somewhat however I feel all aspects of putting the game together and building certain components to the game are all part of the design. For example when the programmer programs the game. He/she is DESIGNING the movements, events, and various other actions in the game and how they will work. Yes it is development but development is more like how the design part of the project grows and actually forms a game. The art and graphics are also a very large part of design being that not all art and graphics are the same. Because they aren't the same that requires them to have different looks, structures, and styles. Hence they are designed and thus a part of game design. So you see everypart is equally design and development.

Disclaimer
(This not a flame just my opposing view) b:victory

well...
I suppose if you look at it this way, without the design nothing can be developed. but with out the development there is not product.

so like... yeah...
without eather there is nothing?

but its good to see there is a really passionat people here!b:victory

Drazo - Heavens Tear · January 2009

Loxin - Lost City wrote: »

how funny! that is the school I wish to attend!
Im looking into the san-francisco branch.

my aunti graduated from there, and she studied game designe as well!
she is currently the head producer of a freelance game group working on a huge project!

Get a job at PWE. b:laugh

Note that simple 2D games will never die. Is it any wonder how lots of people still play and enjoy even the most basic flash/browser games today? Classics never get too old. b:victory

Loxin - Lost City · February 2009

Drazo - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Get a job at PWE. b:laugh

Note that simple 2D games will never die. Is it any wonder how lots of people still play and enjoy even the most basic flash/browser games today? Classics never get too old. b:victory

I actuly have multipl game designes I would like to try, but my master project is ultimantly a MMORPG

I developed a new sysyem of gameplay that I thought everyone would enjoy!
but that is all im my secret files...
heeheeheeheehee b:pleased

Caelon - Lost City · February 2009

thanks a ton for the information & links Darth Panda!!

gotta wait for the full sail catalog to get here... b:pleased

I also think i will be buying "game programming for teens 3E"
I found on gamedev, looks like it could be useful for a noob like me!

and ty loxin for starting this amazing thread :P
wish you luck on your dreams etc.

Myself, i would be pleased as a slave of any game development company!

Perhaps ubisoft can use me as a test dummy, (Warthog safety could be improved) you know they need to make sure master chief stays safe!?

Also we are all gamers here, no one should be ashamed of their wishes to make games OR literally be a part of a game..

i would love to be Noctis Lucis Caelum from the upcoming FF 13 versus..
i would fail, I am way to lazy to fight sword vs. gun battles for an estimated 20++ hours!!

If ff13 versus is less then 20 hours i will send them hate mail...after endless hours of crying..

i however do not look forward too FF13, making it cross console broke my heart.. damn them!
i wont buy it till i have beat FF13 versus at least 3 times V_V!

Thanks again for the information & links Darth panda!~

Into game design?

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