Sage vs. Demon (preferences)

Taurzo - Lost City · February 2009

I know that there were threads in the past asking what's better Sage or Demon (Heaven or Hell) however, this isn't one of those threads. This thread I started because I wanted to see what people were choosing (higher lvl wizards in particular). I think it will be insightful for people to see what the Wizards above us are deciding. Furthermore, I'm really interested in the Conqueror Wizards because they're more so what I'm trying to achieve with my Wizard. So any specs, preferences, etc. would be awesome. ^_^

streaker · February 2009

As I've said before, its all personal preference. Go to ecatomb.net, and click skills, and pwi... check them out for yourself. you can compare the differences and see which you like more ^_^

Devoted - Lost City · February 2009

The vigor skill heaven gets alone would make me choose heaven because mages rely heavily on vigor and the .5 fury every min is extremely helpful in tw.

drebykins · February 2009

This is my opinion. I'm just going over the main spells.

Pyrogram - Sage. - 30 chi is awesome
Gush - Sage - 5% movement speed and an extra sec beats 600 damage.
Stone Rain - Demon, I gotta go with the 20% stun, being that we lack stuns.
All barriers - Demon - Stone barrier is enough to win on it's own
Hailstorm - Demon - once again we lack a lot of stuns, sleeps, paras
DP - Sage - it will own as a sutra leadoff if it stacks with undine strike.
Sandstorm - Demon - gotta go with damage over reduced acc
GS - This is a tough one. I'm gonna say Demon.
FoW - Sage - I'll take a small AoE over a 2 sec cooldown
Blade Tempest - Sage Sage Sage
Dragon - Sage
Moutain Seize - Sage. Sage owns the 59 spells.

Basically, it's pretty even and balanced. I prefer Sage because the 50chi/min ability was the dealbreaker for me. But you have to decide what's right for you.

Taurzo - Lost City · February 2009

I've noticed that a lot of people have been leaning towards Sage but I just want to clarify somethings that have got me a little confused....

1-50chi/min is that always, a certain spell (which one), or just on a successful hit?

2-Demon supposedly gives you higher M.ATK and P.DEF is this true and does Sage boost P.DEF?

3- What's Vigor?

4- People say chi recovery (with Sage) is awesome, but don't you earn Spark/Chi rather quickly either way? So if demon can cast spells faster won't the Demon earn enough Chi if not as much as the Sage?

5-Isn't P.DEF the most important for Pure built wizards? Wouldn't that mean they should go for Demon b/c of the great effect from Stone Barrier?

drebykins.... thanks for the breakdown of some spells I'm looking for things like that to help me out. ^_^

streaker · February 2009

well, I PERSONALLY think demon and pure go hand in hand, but thats just my opinion, and if im not mistaken, thats what u were lookin for

Lirgorn - Heavens Tear · February 2009

IMO the best way to decide what way to go is decide as you play. So go to http://www.ecatomb.net/skillpwi.php and try to memorise a general idea of the skill effects you get at Deamon/Sage.

So now as you play think what would be useful. So if your fighting somone and loose would a stun have made you win that? Perhaps if that skill had cast faster you would have won? If that had done some more dmg would you killed them? If you had had more chi would you have had been able to AoE that group?

As you do this you will get a general idea of what you need. Dnt forget to take into account the line your going to follow with your equipment. Will you go for more crit rate or -channeling? What would make that line of equipment better for you?

Its all about your play style. Someone else's choice wont help you much if you play in a different way to them.

Shana - Lost City · February 2009

Hmm, don't mean to hijack your thread, but there's been something I've always been wondering about. The Demon version of Sandstorm grants 1200 extra damage. Would this be PvE, PvP or both? PvE wouldn't seem like that much of a deal, but PvP on the other hand can decide whether you live or die.

drebykins, you said Glacial Snare would be a toss up. Personally, I'd prefer the 2.1 seconds off Channeling. Its a very hard hitting spell, but the Channeling definitely holds you back. The 20% reduction on Water Resistance for 15 seconds sounds nice, but its not really that great if you think about it. GS already has a 15 second cooldown + Channeling and Cast time, so you won't be able to use that again. You could either use Gush two or three times, but you'd do more damage just using other skills. It'd be useful if you plan to drop the Ice Dragon, but otherwise, the shorter Channeling seems better.

Sage definitely owns all 3 Ultimates and Masteries. Ultimates don't seem to be used that often, but an extra 5% damage on the already massive amount of damage Wizards do is a great bonus.

As for the 3 beginning skills, neither seem that great for Gush and Pyrogram, but Demon Stone Rain definitely beats Sage there. Demon also takes Stone Barrier.

A quick sum up using drebykins' list:
Pyrogram - Tossup
Gush - Tossup
Stone Rain - Demon
All barriers - Demon
DP - Either. Usually not used without Sutra so meh.
Sandstorm - Depends on what the answer to my question is. xD
GS - Demon
FoW - Sage
Blade Tempest - Sage
Dragon - Sage
Moutain Seize - Sage.

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2009

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

...

1-50chi/min is that always, a certain spell (which one), or just on a successful hit?

2-Demon supposedly gives you higher M.ATK and P.DEF is this true and does Sage boost P.DEF?

3- What's Vigor?

4- People say chi recovery (with Sage) is awesome, but don't you earn Spark/Chi rather quickly either way? So if demon can cast spells faster won't the Demon earn enough Chi if not as much as the Sage?

5-Isn't P.DEF the most important for Pure built wizards? Wouldn't that mean they should go for Demon b/c of the great effect from Stone Barrier?

...

1. It's a skill you activate for 50chi with a cooldown of 1 minute.

2. I don't think there is a direct influence on your matk and p.def regarding which side you choose.

3. Vigor is another word for spark/chi

4. Chi recovery comes from the skill mentioned in point 1 and some of the sage version of wizard skills give chi back to user or reduce chi cost, making sage wizard have more chi in comparison to demon wizards.

5. Yes, pdef is important for pures but the bonus pdef from stone barrier on a robe is no where near as good as if it was on a LA mage. If you take a small number and stack 1xx% on it, it's still low. However if you take a decent number and stack 1xx% on it, its returns are far greater.

Just my 2 cents. Perhaps others would like to comment on these.

Shana - Lost City wrote: »

Hmm, don't mean to hijack your thread, but there's been something I've always been wondering about. The Demon version of Sandstorm grants 1200 extra damage. Would this be PvE, PvP or both? PvE wouldn't seem like that much of a deal, but PvP on the other hand can decide whether you live or die.

drebykins, you said Glacial Snare would be a toss up. Personally, I'd prefer the 2.1 seconds off Channeling.

...

The noted damage on ecatomb is the damage added with no modifications. In other words it is a raw figure added that hasn't accounted for damage caps, defense of foe etc. So to answer that, it's 1200 PvE damage. Since PvP has a 75% reduction, this becomes a 300 damage addition (haven't taken resist and all that into account yet)

Also, I believe ecatomb has an error for GS. Demon GS does not reduce the channel time BY 2.1s but it reduces it TO 2.1s. That is a huge difference!

However, my ecatomb refuses to work at my current workstation, so apologies if I have gotten any numbers wrong in re: of point 4 and 5 (Taurzo) and re: Demon GS (Shana).

Taurzo - Lost City · February 2009

Pyrogram - Sage wins -

Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.

Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds.

(this effect is not true it reduces T.O. time not channeling according to Pandora)

---

Gush - Sage wins -

Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3390.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds

Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
Demon version gives an extra 600 damage.

(600 damage really ain't much further up the lvl chain)

---

Stone Rain - Sage wins -

A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4804.0

Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds.

(20% is a very minimal probability)

---

Pyroshell -Demon wins -

Use your energy to form a Fire-resistant barrier around you. Adds 120% Fire resistance and increases HP regeneration by 12 per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
Demon version always increases HP regeneration to 15 points per second

(much more effective earn 900 more life than the sage)

---

Glacial Embrace - Demon wins -

Uses vigorous energy to form a icy barrier around oneself. Adds 120% Water resistance and increases Mana regeneration by 12 points per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
Demon version always increases mana regeneration to 15 points per second.

(900 more mana earned than the sage)

---

Stone Barrier - Demon wins -

Focus all of your energy to form an Earthen Barrier around you. Adds 120% Earth resistance and an extra 120% physical defense for 15 minutes.

Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
Demon version always increases physical defense to 150%

(Demon adds an addition 30% P.Def may not seem like much but it ends up being a better help in the long run)

---

Crown of Flame - Draw -

Place a blazing crown of Fire on the opponent's head. It burns, causing Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 5693.0 over 15 seconds.

Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
Demon version decreases the duration of the burn.

(15% more fire damage or lessen the seconds of the burn still causing the same damage)
[personally i'm leaning toward Demon on this one also]

---

Hailstorm - Sage wins -

Conjure a hailstorm to rain down on the target causing it and all surrounding enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 3160.0 of weapon damage . Has a 33% chance to freeze enemies for 4.0 seconds. Higher Lv. gives wider range

Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
Demon version increases chance to freeze to 50%.

(an addition 3160 damage is AMAZING if this is correct but only has a 33% chance of working)

---

Divine Pyrogram - ??? -

Using the divine secrets of Fire cast a searing spell on the enemy to inflict Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4903.0.

Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Demon version reduces channeling time.

(Due to the fact that we don't know how much the channeling time is reduced it's hard to compare; however I'm a fan of reducing channeling time allowing quicker spell casting)

---

Morning Dew - Sage wins -

Recovers target's HP by 1350 points plus 40% of base magic damage.

Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
Demon version also heals the target over time, recovering 200 HP three times at three second intervals.

(I say Sage wins b/c of 2 things: the first being that the chance to fully heal target is AWESOME even though it probably rarely happens; furthermore in battle your opponent can knock away 200HP regen [totaling 600] like nothing so it doesn't seem to really be that effective)

---

Pitfall - Demon wins -

Manipulate the divine force of the Earth and summon a mystic sand swirl underneath the enemy, inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic damage plus 5891.0 over 15 seconds and slowing the enemy's speed by 15%. Has a 15% chance to freeze the target for 3 seconds.

Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
Demon version increases freeze chance to 33%

(higher chance of freeze happening; slow only makes your opponent move slower, while freeze prevents them from moving at all)

---

The Dragon's Breath - Sage wins -

The power of the Fire God surrounds your body in a blazing vortex. All enemies 12 meters around you suffer constant Fire damage. Consumes 350 Mana every 3 seconds, inflicting Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 4800.0. Casting will not stop until Mana is depleted or the spell is canceled.

Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life.

(Using this spell stun takes the cake; stunning your opponent, making them temporary trapped in this AoE is far greater than gaining an small amount of life )

---

Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds

(yes increasing channeling speed is awesome however a 100% magic attack increase is a no-brainer.)

---

Will of the Phoenix - Demon wins -

Launches a burning phoenix to attack all the enemies in a straight line 18.0 meters in front of you and knock them 18.0 meters back. Inflicts Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5395.0.

Sage version has 1 second reduced cool down.
Demon version has area of effect increased by 50%.

(oh no not a one second cool down! I much rather boost the AoE over the one second cool down)

---

Frostblade - Draw -

Breathe an icy breath onto a squad member's weapon allowing giving their normal attacks extra Water damage equal to 40% of your base magic attack. Lasts 15 minutes

Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
Demon version always increases bonus damage to 50%.

(This choice strictly is in the eye of the beholder; they both are pretty balanced)

---

Sandstorm - Demon wins -

Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6560.0 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
Demon version grants an additional 1200 damage.

(I would say that 1200 damage is pretty nice stacked on to this move; furthermore I'm not to sure how the Sage move benefits b/c it already decreases enemy accuracy by 50%)
[if it makes it decrease by 100% then that would be a win for the Sage in my book].

---

Emberstorm -Sage Wins-

Charge for up to 3.2 seconds to attack enemies in a 12 meter radius at the cost of up to 60% of your HP. Inflicts 5000 Fire damage, each HP spent dealing 4.0 damage.

Sage version reduces damage taken by 25%.
Demon version has a 50% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds.

(This is tough because stunning an opponent is awesome for a wizard but reducing damage is also amazing. However, I find the reducing damage taken by 25% to be more beneficial for a wizard then possibly stunning an opponent for 3 seconds. [Sage version works every time while Demon doesn't]. I figure while using this attack you may be already taking damage so reducing damage you cause to yourself is an additional A+)

----

Glacial Snare -Demon Wins-

Launch multiple ice arrows at the enemy to trap them in an ice prison causing Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6171.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemy's speed by 80% for 6.0 seconds.

Sage version reduces enemy Water resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Demon version has reduces channeling time by 2.1 seconds.

If demon really reduces the channeling time and not the T.O. time then I will say that demon trumps sage on this one. Demon's benefit causes this spell to take .4 seconds to cast; you will still have to wait for the regular cool down time.

---

Force of Will -Sage Wins-

Launches an invisible explosion at the target, interrupting it's current channeling, silencing it and making it unable to attack for 5.0 seconds.

Sage version adds the 3 meter area of effect.
Demon version reduces cool down by two seconds.

(Sage wins because a 3 meter added AoE is better than a 2 second cool down. 3 meters adds to the advantage of a wizard. If you silence your opponent for 5 seconds then they have to run 3 meters more that gives a wizard plenty of time to cast another one or two spells. Demon just doesn't compete)

---

Distance Shrink

Uses the divine force of the Earth to instantly teleport 25 meters forward.

Sage version reduces the Chi cost by 10.
Demon version increases teleport distance to 30 meters.

---

Blade Tempest

Focus all of one's vigor to create countless flames that fly towards the enemy, causing the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target to suffer both physical and Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 6200.0.

Sage version has a 50% chance cast at the cost of only one Spark.
Demon version has a 50% chance to interrupt enemy channeling.

---

Black Ice Dragon Strike

Focus one's energy to summon a Water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target and all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies in a 12.0 meter radius around target suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0. Has a 95% chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds.

Sage version gives a 50% chance to increase magic critical hit rate by 30% for 10 seconds.
Demon version gives a a 20% chance to cast without using Spark

---

Mountain's Seize

Use all of one's energy to invoke the spirit of the Mountain. Slams the target and all enemies 12.0 meters around the target dealing Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 500% of weapon damage plus 12149.0. Has a 95% chance to stun all enemies for 6.0 seconds.

Sage version has a 50% chance to cast at a cost of only one Spark.
Demon version extends range by 5 meters.

---

Fire Mastery -Sage Wins-

Increases Fire magic damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases Fire damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

---

Water Mastery -Sage Wins-

Increases all Water magic damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases water damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

---

Earth Mastery -Sage Wins-

Increases Earth damage by 20%.

Sage version always increases Earth damage by 25%.
Demon version increases critical hit rate by 1%.

---

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2009

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

Pyrogram - Sage wins -

Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.

Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds. (this effect is not true it reduces T.O. time not channeling according to Pandora)

It reduces TO 1.2s not BY 1.2s. So it's only a 0.3s reduction in channeling if I remember right. Most of the "reduce channeling by X.Yseconds" is suppose to be "reduce channeling to X.Yseconds". If it reduced BY X.Yseconds, wizards would be frick'n broken. It's like mini sutras left right and centre.

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

Gush - Sage wins -

Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3390.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds

Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
Demon version gives an extra 600 damage. (600 damage really ain't much further up the lvl chain)

Agreed. Demon gush blows.

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

Stone Rain - Sage wins -

A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4804.0

Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds. (20% is a very minimal probablility)

Again, I believe the channeling time is reduce TO 1.6seconds, not BY 1.6seconds.

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

Pyroshell -Demon wins -

Use your energy to form a Fire-resistant barrier around you. Adds 120% Fire resistance and increases HP regeneration by 12 per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
Demon version always increases HP reneration to 15 points per second (much more effective earn 900 more life than the sage)

(gotta go eat will work on this some more later ^_^)

You also have to remember that the regen rate is reduced by 75% in combat. Meaning the regen on the shell blows. I would take +150% fire resist if I was a robe.

Again, I can't double check figures etc since ecatomb is not working for me. Although I have not reached either path I believe that the reducing channeling times are typos on the site. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (bash me, flame me, or just politely tell me; I don't mind either way).

Shana - Lost City · February 2009

First off, thanks for clarifying the Demon Sandstorm thing, Legerity. And it also makes a lot more sense that its TO 2.1 and not BY 2.1 on GS and all the other skills.

Aside from the Stone Rain Stun and the 150% Stone Barrier, I'm definitely leaning towards Sage right now.

Pandora - Lost City · February 2009

It's important to remember that heaven stone barrier is 120%, not 100%.

Amour - Lost City · February 2009

Pandora - Lost City wrote: »

It's important to remember that heaven stone barrier is 120%, not 100%.

It's also important to remember that without chi, mages are nothing. I can't really justify going hell unless you have all 3 mastery books waiting for you.

Mizorie - Lost City · February 2009

I know I'm low level but I have researched and compared both and for now my choice is sage when I reach that point in game. I may have a change in opinion as I level more and gain my experience about the game, but for now from what I've read I like the sage better then the demon.

VonTerror - Lost City · February 2009

I will never get to 89 so i don't care, won't be here long enough. But if i were to make it, i would just go with whichever i think looks cooler. Based on that its a toss up on 89 since both are horrible, afterwards hell owns

http://forum.perfectworld.com.my/viewtopic.php?t=9363&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Shana - Lost City · February 2009

Pandora - Lost City wrote: »

It's important to remember that heaven stone barrier is 120%, not 100%.

Hmm. Another mistake on Ecatomb then. Its not as much as Demon, but its still something. I guess for now, my choice would be Sage. Thanks for the heads up, Pandora.

I wonder why everything generally associates Wizards with Demon. Its nowhere near as beneficial as Sage now that I look at it.

Maruja - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds (yes increasing channeling speed is awesome however a 100% magic attack increase is a no-brainer.)

Is the Sage 100% attack boost for the duration of the wellspring quaff or is it a short burst like the demons 15 second channeling effect? This makes or breaks the decision for me. Any Sages out there have the answer?

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2009

Maruja - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds (yes increasing channeling speed is awesome however a 100% magic attack increase is a no-brainer.)

Is the Sage 100% attack boost for the duration of the wellspring quaff or is it a short burst like the demons 15 second channeling effect? This makes or breaks the decision for me. Any Sages out there have the answer?

The bonus to matk is 15seconds after activation. Sorry to bust your bubble

Jrudora - Lost City · February 2009

Demon's burst is pretty awesome though.
It reduces channeling time after you spark

But, personally I prefer sage.
Although the demon masteries do seem kind of awesome.. adding crit and all.
But all that chi is really really captivating.

Amour - Lost City · February 2009

Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »

Demon's burst is pretty awesome though.
It reduces channeling time after you spark

But, personally I prefer sage.
Although the demon masteries do seem kind of awesome.. adding crit and all.
But all that chi is really really captivating.

Yes yes... a mage has better things to spend chi on than demon spark anyways

Taurzo - Lost City · February 2009

well as of right now I have two wizards one is on LC while the other is on Sanc. So I'm going to go demon with my LC wizard and sage with my Sanc. one. Hopefully this will allow me to perceive the good and bad and come up with good advice for any who need it (however I'm a LONG ways away from this of course)

DiFiore - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »

The bonus to matk is 15seconds after activation. Sorry to bust your bubble

Cooldown on Wellspring is like... 10 seconds. So, technically speaking, you can spam the hell out of Sage Wellspring and keep getting the +100% Mattack. It's like a level 1 Fury that lasts 5 seconds longer, doesn't have that "invincibility" delay, is much harder for other people to catch, and costs mana to activate instead of Chi.

So, if you think about it, it's still pretty godly. Wellspring, Sutra, blam.

Legerity - Sanctuary · February 2009

The cooldown is 3 seconds, not 10s. Yes you can spam it to no ends but remember it does cost a spark xD

But yes, I repeat, it is 15seconds after activation in case anyone missed it.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · February 2009

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

well as of right now I have two wizards one is on LC while the other is on Sanc. So I'm going to go demon with my LC wizard and sage with my Sanc. one. Hopefully this will allow me to perceive the good and bad and come up with good advice for any who need it (however I'm a LONG ways away from this of course)

I think that's softly said... you wanna make two wizards level 89? You have spare time? Good luck!

Jrudora - Lost City · February 2009

DiFiore - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cooldown on Wellspring is like... 10 seconds. So, technically speaking, you can spam the hell out of Sage Wellspring and keep getting the +100% Mattack. It's like a level 1 Fury that lasts 5 seconds longer, doesn't have that "invincibility" delay, is much harder for other people to catch, and costs mana to activate instead of Chi.

So, if you think about it, it's still pretty godly. Wellspring, Sutra, blam.

Mm hmm, I have to agree.
That's a pretty fun combo.

But one of the biggest deciding factors between Sage and Demon (At this current time) is the findability (is that a word? Meh) of the other skills beyond the beginning 3.

For me, the first 3 spells (pyro, gush, and stone rain) are my deciding factors, along with the spark.
They're easily farmable in fb89 (and fb89 isn't that hard either), unlike Fb99 where the other skills drop as additional drops instead (and that seems so much rarer.. iirc the shields can only be found in fb99).

I'm also basing my opinions mainly on skills I can get at 89 also, because I don't know if I'll ever reach 92 or beyond.

Given that..
Pyro's 20% chance to get chi wins for me.
Gush's extra slow also wins 600 extra damage.
Stone rain's slightly shorter channel time makes it much more usable than demon (although demon can stun)..

And although heaven's spark isn't as good as demon's, its damage reduction could be a saving factor for squishy robe mages like me

I think I'm going to go sage at 89. b:pleased

Mosabi - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Taurzo - Lost City wrote: »

Pyrogram - Sage wins -

Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 3620.0.

Sage version grants a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi on a successful hit.
Demon version reduces channeling time by 1.2 seconds. (this effect is not true it reduces T.O. time not channeling according to Pandora)

Gush - Sage wins -

Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3390.0. Has a 95% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds

Sage version increases chance to slow to 45% and increases duration of slow by one second.
Demon version gives an extra 600 damage. (600 damage really ain't much further up the lvl chain)

Stone Rain - Sage wins -

A gigantic rock slams onto the target inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4804.0

Sage version reduces channeling time by 1.6 seconds.
Demon version gives a 20% chance to stun the enemy for 5 seconds. (20% is a very minimal probablility)

Pyroshell -Demon wins -

Use your energy to form a Fire-resistant barrier around you. Adds 120% Fire resistance and increases HP regeneration by 12 per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always gives 150% Fire resistance increase.
Demon version always increases HP reneration to 15 points per second (much more effective earn 900 more life than the sage)

Glacial Embrace - Demon wins -

Uses vigorous energy to form a icy barrier arround oneself. Adds 120% Water resistance and increases Mana regeneration by 12 points per second for 15 minutes.

Sage version always increases Water resistance to 150%.
Demon version always increases mana regeneration to 15 points per second.(900 more mana earned than the sage)

Stone Barrier - Demon wins -

Focus all of your energy to form an Earthen Barrier around you. Adds 120% Earth resistance and an extra 120% physical defense for 15 minutes.

Sage version always increases Earth resistance to 150%.
Demon version alway increses physical defence to 150% (Demon adds an addition 30% P.Def may not seem like much but it ends up being a better help in the long run)

Crown of Flame - Draw -

Place a blazing crown of Fire on the opponent's head. It burns, causing Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 5693.0 over 15 seconds.

Sage version gives 15% bonus Fire damage.
Demon version decreases the duration of the burn. (15% more fire damage or lessen the seconds of the burn still causing the same damage) [persoanally i'm leaning toward Demon on this one also]

Hailstorm - Sage wins -

Conjure a hailstorm to rain down on the target causing it and all surrounding enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic attack plus 3160.0 of weapon damage . Has a 33% chance to freeze enemies for 4.0 seconds. Higher Lv. gives wider range

Sage version grants an extra 3160 Water damage to frozen enemies.
Demon version increases chance to freeze to 50%. (an addition 3160 damage is AMAZING if this is correct but only has a 33% chance of working)

Divine Pyrogram - ??? -

Using the divine secrets of Fire cast a searing spell on the enemy to inflict Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4903.0.

Sage version reduces enemy Fire resistance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Demon version reduces channeling time. (Due to the fact that we don't know how much the channeling time is reduced it's hard to compare; however I'm a fan of reducing channeling time allowing quicker spell casting)

Morning Dew - Sage wins -

Recovers target's HP by 1350 points plus 40% of base magic damage.

Sage version gives a 10% chance to fully heal the target.
Demon version also heals the target over time, recovering 200 HP three times at three second intervals. (I say Sage wins b/c of 2 things: the first being that the chance to fully heal target is AWESOME even though it probably rarely happens; furthermore in battle your opponent can knock away 200HP regen [totalling 600] like nothing so it doesn't seem to really be that effective)

Pitfall - Demon wins -

Manipulate the divine force of the Earth and summon a mystic sandswirl underneath the enemy, inflicting Earth damage equal to base magic damage plus 5891.0 over 15 seconds and slowing the enemy's speed by 15%. Has a 15% chance to freeze the target for 3 seconds.

Sage version increases the slow effect to 20%.
Demon version increases freeze chance to 33% (higher chance of freeze happening; If my thinking is correct slow only makes your opponent move slower, while freeze prevents them from moving at all)

The Dragon's Breath - Sage wins -

The power of the Fire God surrounds your body in a blazing vortex. All enemies 12 meters around you suffer constant Fire damage. Consumes 350 Mana every 3 seconds, inflicting Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 4800.0. Casting will not stop until Mana is depleted or the spell is cancelled.

Sage version gives a 20% chance to stun.
Demon version has a 25% chance to gain 500 life. (I've never actually seen this move so I'm not exactly sure how it works but from the sound of it I would say that sage wins...If you stun them that's an opportunity to turn the tide of a battle)

Wellspring Quaff - Sage wins -

A sip of Nature's Wellspring increases your maximum mana capacity. For 30 minutes maximum mana is increased by 60%.

Sage version gives a 100% bonus to magic attack.
Demon version gives a 20% channeling speed increase for 15 seconds (yes increasing channeling speed is awesome however a 100% magic attack increase is a no-brainer.)

Will of the Phoenix - Demon wins -

Launches a burning phoenix to attack all the enemies in a straight line 18.0 meters in front of you and knock them 18.0 meters back. Inflicts Fire damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 5395.0.

Sage version has 1 second reduced cooldown.
Demon version has area of effect increased by 50%. (oh no not a one second cooldown! I much rather boost the AoE over the one second cooldown)

Frostblade - Draw -

Breathe an icy breath onto a squad member's weapon allowing giving their normal attacks extra Water damage equal to 40% of your base magic attack. Lasts 15 minutes

Sage version increases effect duration to 30 minutes.
Demon version always increases bonus damage to 50%.

Sandstorm - Demon wins -

Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 6560.0 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

Sage version reduced enemy accuracy by 50%.
Demon version grants an additional 1200 damage. (I would say that 1200 damage is pretty nice stacked on to this move; furthermore I'm not to sure how the Sage move benefits b/c it already decreases enemy accuracy by 50% [if it makes it 100% then that would be a win for the Sage in my book]).

A+
10 charecters hope no one reades it >.>

Mosabi - Heavens Tear · February 2009

everybody says "oh no hell is better no heaven is better no..blah..blah..blah.."

will you forget one thing:

YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO GET THOSE SKILLS YOU NEED A **** LOAD OF **** JUST TO GET ONE.

so unless you are planning on playing the game or the stupid class for 2 years ahead your main concern should only be what is prettier the hell fairy or the angel fairy damn it...

Calibix - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Mosabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

everybody says "oh no hell is better no heaven is better no..blah..blah..blah.."

will you forget one thing:

YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO GET THOSE SKILLS YOU NEED A **** LOAD OF **** JUST TO GET ONE.

so unless you are planning on playing the game or the stupid class for 2 years ahead your main concern should only be what is prettier the hell fairy or the angel fairy damn it...

Don't you just need the book and medium ink? I'm level 80 and already have the sage pyrogram skill.

Jrudora - Lost City · February 2009

Mosabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

everybody says "oh no hell is better no heaven is better no..blah..blah..blah.."

will you forget one thing:

YOU GUYS HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO GET THOSE SKILLS YOU NEED A **** LOAD OF **** JUST TO GET ONE.

so unless you are planning on playing the game or the stupid class for 2 years ahead your main concern should only be what is prettier the hell fairy or the angel fairy damn it...

Yawn.
And its hard to get level 89 for you too.
I think with your attitude, you'd never get there.
You should quit while you're ahead.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Mosabi - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »

Yawn.
And its hard to get level 89 for you too.
I think with your attitude, you'd never get there.
You should quit while you're ahead.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

one thing to say lol

Sage vs. Demon (preferences)

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