STACKING HEALs for TANKS

suzistarr
suzistarr Posts: 2 Arc User
edited February 2009 in General Discussion
Just spent an embarrasing half hour on FB 29 quest with the major tank yelling at me during the fight - heal me, heal me, I did keep healing with Iron Heart Blessing, and Soon the Light for rest of squad - the hp lines dipped by no more than 30% during the worst, but Tank said he had lost power??? Can someone explain the best way to keep squad healthy? I am lvl 41 cleric.
Post edited by suzistarr on

Comments

  • Twilyte - Heavens Tear
    Twilyte - Heavens Tear Posts: 131 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Just keep spamming Iron Heart on the tank. Keep that skill as max as you can get it before raising the others. If you have the time to cast Soon-The Light, thats a bonus.

    But as a solo healer your first and foremost job is to keep the tank alive. If others start taking damage, then either the tank isn't doing a great job at holding aggro, or others are high damage builds and spamming their skills.

    Either way, too many peeps think that as soon as a cleric joins the group that they no longer need to use their own healing (skills or pots). Any good tank learns this early on in case something bad happens (wandering mobs or bad pulls) and the cleric needs to switch from healing to rezzing someone.

    Did the party survive? Did the tank die? No? Then call it a success and find yourself a less whiny tank. By "lost power" I assume you are talking about the tank's HP Charm got used a bit. Notice they never care if your MP Charm gets burned keeping them alive.

    If you get unlucky enough to be grouped with that tank again, and he starts in on you about not healing, time your heals a little further apart so his HP Charm ticks more. At least then he can feel what "burning thru a charm" really feels like.

    Sorry for sounding nasty about it, but some players think that it perfectly acceptable for clerics to burn through charms and they shouldn't complain, while they get to whine like babies about their HP charms ticking once or twice.

    Next time, just before the boss dies, stop healing him, let him die so he won't get credit for the fb. Then just claim you froze up and need to reboot.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Shaye - Lost City
    Shaye - Lost City Posts: 353 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    The best way to keep a squad like that healthy? Kick the tank and find a new one.
    [SIGPIC]http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l420/byetohru/CandyResized.png[/SIGPIC]
  • Grgumsh - Heavens Tear
    Grgumsh - Heavens Tear Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    shoulda let him die for being a whiner.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    War has made me very paranoid, and when a man starts eyeballin me it makes my Agent Orange act up and I get the urge to kill.
  • Amsel - Sanctuary
    Amsel - Sanctuary Posts: 295 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    lol yeah you did fine, like these guys said dont ever use him again, he will keep whining and at some point not be wanted by anyone
    [SIGPIC]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r153/4chan_posters/amselwong-1.jpg[/SIGPIC]
  • Pharse - Heavens Tear
    Pharse - Heavens Tear Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I agree with everyone. I am a BM for the most part (sometimes used as a tank on low lvl fbs. I also have a cleric and a barb) and if I live through the fb I am perfectly happy. At lvl 60 I make enough coin off selling DQ items that I get new hp charms without spending real money. If the charm gets used then good. That is what it is there for. If your tank is a whiner then don't use him again. There are a few fbs that I have not gone on just because of how some of the other people in the squad play. I suggest you do the same and don't feel bad a bit about it.
  • PXRage - Heavens Tear
    PXRage - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    honestly i think the tank (barb) these days need to be spanked a lil and taught a lesson. a lv60+ BM are equal (if not more practical) for a FB29. we can aoe the **** out of everything and heal ourselves with sutra if needed. Just one problem is we can't hold agro as well when an archer is in the party.

    I've seen too many barbs charging in thinking the cleric would keep them at 100% hp all the time, **** just let them die and let them cry, then kicking in the middle of a FB is the ****.

    Obviously this doesn't apply to all, some barbs are awesome tanks. and they'd do everything to keep everyone alive.
  • Ethree - Lost City
    Ethree - Lost City Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    only time a tank has the right to complain is if the ep is blatantly not healing him. If your heiro ticks oh well your designed to take damage lol. If you survive and keep aggro and everybody lives whats wrong
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] tx Haiz too pro
  • Faustinna - Heavens Tear
    Faustinna - Heavens Tear Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Or wait ti'll you are at the boss and hit your "Town teleport" spell and say "Ooops i hit my teleport spell by accident, its on my hotbar right next to ironheart. How do you cancel casting in progress...? nvm too late im back in town. Oh well bye!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Torsay - Sanctuary
    Torsay - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    If you can't treat barbs that act like that and if you haven't got your own personal tank then maybe cleric isn't the right class for you.
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    @Torsay: So for a cleric, listening to a whiny tank is part of the job? That doesn't sound a little bit wrong to you, considering all they're "supposed" to be doing is mashing Ironheart?

    I dunno, call it naivete, but when I get my cleric high enough to assist in boss fights, I'll have practiced a way to contribute damage. I'm thinking maybe mash Ironheart until the tank can survive for a few seconds, quickly get in a thunderball (as not to take aggro), and then resume healing. And it'll have the added bonus of actually letting me know how close the boss is to dying.

    And can I just say I love this thread? It's refreshing to see a game where the unspoken rule isn't "healers aren't allowed to have fun."
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    next time kill the barb. if you tank has time to complain or ask for a heal during the fight then it is a non issue. i have had bosses and squads go south on me and when that happened i was too busy keeping agro and healing and moving the boss/ mob away from the party to whine "i need healed".
    i never ask for a heal durring the fight. and when i have had to straighten things out with a cleric or veno or bm i did it after the fighting was done. and even then it the conversation starts out "nice". normally i ask why first. like why did you try to keep the bm alive when he knew the boss had aoe and should stay back?" or why weren't you healing so well? and if the anser is a good one like "hey you all lived. or i am doing the best i can." then i let it slide.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Torsay - Sanctuary
    Torsay - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    @Torsay: So for a cleric, listening to a whiny tank is part of the job? That doesn't sound a little bit wrong to you, considering all they're "supposed" to be doing is mashing Ironheart?

    I dunno, call it naivete, but when I get my cleric high enough to assist in boss fights, I'll have practiced a way to contribute damage. I'm thinking maybe mash Ironheart until the tank can survive for a few seconds, quickly get in a thunderball (as not to take aggro), and then resume healing. And it'll have the added bonus of actually letting me know how close the boss is to dying.

    And can I just say I love this thread? It's refreshing to see a game where the unspoken rule isn't "healers aren't allowed to have fun."

    Consider that cleric can't attack as fast as archer. Most of the spells take forever to cast. The fastest is the ironheart blessing I guess, so it's easy to stack that.

    Most of the time the barb is around same level as the pitboss and can die in 4-5 hits, maybe less. If you're the only cleric in the party then you got no choice but heal. If the barb die and see you using plume shot or anything like that then he will blame you.

    Healing with ironheart blessing makes a light effect that the tank can see.

    Doing 0 or 5 shots at boss in between healing makes no difference if you are low level cleric.

    And being able to decide if the party gets wipped or not and how is fun. :)
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    my fav cleric and friend is very level headed about how he opperates.

    my view is you see me and the damage i am taking and its effect on my life.
    you know your bussiness. as i stated i generally expect ppl to know their jobs and how to do them. any way if you see that you can add in damage go ahead BUT, let me know for my piece of mind I am gonna attack the mob some. then when i see my life going down a little further than normal i will know why and i won't be mad.

    btw i don't use charms so i don't care if my live is at 90% or 15% as long as i live through the fight i am good with it. i also don't expect my clerics to use charms. personally i dislike them i veiw them as a cheat.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Torsay - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Consider that cleric can't attack as fast as archer. Most of the spells take forever to cast. The fastest is the ironheart blessing I guess, so it's easy to stack that.

    Most of the time the barb is around same level as the pitboss and can die in 4-5 hits, maybe less. If you're the only cleric in the party then you got no choice but heal. If the barb die and see you using plume shot or anything like that then he will blame you.
    Hence, you stack the Ironheart pretty high. Ironheart heals over 15 seconds and takes 2 seconds to channel/cast, so theoretically you can cast it at least 5-6 times before you switch to targeting the boss and cast Thunderball. The Thunderball takes a little under 4 seconds to channel/cast. So in under 5 seconds you can break targeting on your tank, cast a damaging spell and see the boss's remaining life while you're at it. Then you just hit their name in your squad and start hitting Ironheart again.

    Trust me, I know enough clerics to be familiar with their casting times (if this info wasn't readily available from various sites already). :P
    Torsay - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And being able to decide if the party gets wipped or not and how is fun. :)
    Erm, okay. If we've established that mashing Ironheart preserves the health of the tank, and thus the killing effort, isn't this just proving my point? The party won't get wiped if the cleric is "doing his/her [only] job," therefore the only way to decide if the party gets wiped or not is not to cast it at all (or not enough).

    So I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are we just disagreeing on whether it's possible to break targeting on your tank for 5 seconds without him/her dying? Or are you implying that it's fun to just randomly decide to stop casting and let the party get wiped? :P
    btw i don't use charms so i don't care if my live is at 90% or 15% as long as i live through the fight i am good with it. i also don't expect my clerics to use charms. personally i dislike them i veiw them as a cheat.
    Never heard that one before. I wouldn't say they're cheats (if anything, just bad game design and/or cheap)... I would just say that anyone who requires the tank to have a guardian charm or the cleric to have a spirit charm can get bent. Or if there are really things in the endgame that absolutely require them, then maybe the endgame isn't worth playing... -_-
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • The ferenczy - Sanctuary
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    i will swap cheat with cheap. to me it alters the game play too much to be worth using.

    exp scroll + hp/ mp charm + some third thing = cheap as hell game play.

    personally i like fair fights with mobs. i am not a person who goes to a nursery to kick a baby to feel all powerful so to speak.
    one day the world will shout to me save us....
    and i will whisper no.
  • Torsay - Sanctuary
    Torsay - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Erm, okay. If we've established that mashing Ironheart preserves the health of the tank, and thus the killing effort, isn't this just proving my point? The party won't get wiped if the cleric is "doing his/her [only] job," therefore the only way to decide if the party gets wiped or not is not to cast it at all (or not enough).

    So I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are we just disagreeing on whether it's possible to break targeting on your tank for 5 seconds without him/her dying? Or are you implying that it's fun to just randomly decide to stop casting and let the party get wiped? :P

    I am just not doing my best if the tank is being a jerk. Depends on the situation. Usually doesn't happen that the whole party gets wipped.

    I am in big need of spirit so I didn't train the thunderball skill. Pretty much my only attack skill is the plume shot still.
  • Caldaster - Lost City
    Caldaster - Lost City Posts: 184 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    i have tanked fb29 with no cleric .... the heiro ticks (max 4) is not much for the xp b:dirty ( i'll lose more if i grind tht xp ) .... so if a barb cries ... kick him and invite me b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Poor thing ... lucky me b:victory
  • Nomaad - Heavens Tear
    Nomaad - Heavens Tear Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    my fav cleric and friend is very level headed about how he opperates.

    my view is you see me and the damage i am taking and its effect on my life.
    you know your bussiness. as i stated i generally expect ppl to know their jobs and how to do them. any way if you see that you can add in damage go ahead BUT, let me know for my piece of mind I am gonna attack the mob some. then when i see my life going down a little further than normal i will know why and i won't be mad.

    btw i don't use charms so i don't care if my live is at 90% or 15% as long as i live through the fight i am good with it. i also don't expect my clerics to use charms. personally i dislike them i veiw them as a cheat.



    I use charms (when i can afford them,b:sad) to grind, tank, etc., because its some peace of mind for me to know i have it in case something DOES happen, i have more time to escape or switch tactics, w/e. And if im tanking a boss and my charm ticks, oh well...that is what its there for...b:victory
  • Sukinee - Heavens Tear
    Sukinee - Heavens Tear Posts: 262 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Don't feel bad about your issue with the tank; the player was obviously whining too much and relying too heavily on you. For one thing, if the tank was so concerned about staying alive, they should have used their own powders/potions, it seems to me that they don't really trust you when it comes to healing.

    I know for a fact that ironheart does take some time to take effect, also depending on the level. Just remember that you could stack them and their effect would take a good amount of time in seconds. But also realize that you could use spark eruption to make the effects even stronger, especially if it's a tough boss. If I were to help out I would spam heal a least a couple of times on the tank and contribute some. For example I would cast a thunderball on the elite to a least give some damage over time. When you get weild thunder or even tempest, that tends to give a lot of damage too.

    Clerics have indeed been given the bad rep. for dying easily or not doing anything else useful except healing, so I do feel your frustration. Pretty much all the rest of the classes, including tanks need to realize that clerics could be some pretty good damage dealers, and that it's incredibly boring pressing a hot-keyed ironheart all the time.

    If something like that were to happen to you again, and the tank was being extremely rude, I would have them killed by the elite.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Member of Nocturne and Hikari...spread the light be nice to others!

    "I conform to non-conformity." Join date: November 2008 :D
  • AbaraiRenji_ - Heavens Tear
    AbaraiRenji_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    PXRage - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    honestly i think the tank (barb) these days need to be spanked a lil and taught a lesson. a lv60+ BM are equal (if not more practical) for a FB29. we can aoe the **** out of everything and heal ourselves with sutra if needed. Just one problem is we can't hold agro as well when an archer is in the party.

    I've seen too many barbs charging in thinking the cleric would keep them at 100% hp all the time, **** just let them die and let them cry, then kicking in the middle of a FB is the ****.

    Obviously this doesn't apply to all, some barbs are awesome tanks. and they'd do everything to keep everyone alive.

    i totally agree with that. and bm is about 6-10lvl behind barb on tanking, if u just can handle ur Marrows. (example: Krimson, i first time tanked it 65lvl)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "maybe one day u will make it.. but the day aint today"
  • Dark_Arbnger - Lost City
    Dark_Arbnger - Lost City Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    First of all if the tank complains hes not doing his job to attack and hold agro. In my lower lvls (30-50) i had alot of barbs complaining that i couldnt heal them fast enough with ironheart even though they didnt even drop below 80% health, for my fb39 i had 1 WB lvl 55-60 roughly and 2 lvl 75 venos. We let the barb tank instead of letting the venos herc's. They got tired of him yelling "KEEP HEALS ON ME, DONT LET MY HIERO TICK!!!" we ended up booting him after the 1st boss and the venos **** him :)

    Bottom line is dont put up with winers, if they have a hiero they have it to save their butts if the EP get interupted for some odd reason. If you get a winer boot them and get someone that will appreciate the FB exp and rep

    ~need EP tips write me in forums~
  • DevilCrys - Heavens Tear
    DevilCrys - Heavens Tear Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    Spam heal yourself next time n be like AM I DOING IT RIGHT!?!!?!
  • Dark_Arbnger - Lost City
    Dark_Arbnger - Lost City Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    DevilCrys - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Spam heal yourself next time n be like AM I DOING IT RIGHT!?!!?!

    lmao ive actually done that once, it was like 3am here and i forgot i had the boss targeted -_- realized i was healing myself an was like "oh sht" then started healing the barb, it was priceless. i was like IT WONT HEAL YOU!!!
  • Cosmos - Heavens Tear
    Cosmos - Heavens Tear Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    DevilCrys - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Spam heal yourself next time n be like AM I DOING IT RIGHT!?!!?!

    I do this quite often, especially in TT. b:surrender It can get boring being healer down there and my mind often wanders..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fuzzles
    fuzzles Posts: 628 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    The ferenczy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    personally i like fair fights with mobs. i am not a person who goes to a nursery to kick a baby to feel all powerful so to speak.

    I am. The little buggers never see it coming.

    And its all jolly good to speak about "handling your marrows" (which sounds like a fantastically dirty, sleazy and sexy euphemism), but against higher level bosses, one slip up with your "marrow-handling" will result in a full party wipe. Not to mention that some of the bosses simply aren't tankable by anything with less than an absolute crapoload of HP.. as in.. anything other than a barb.
    Everyone here is ridiculously oversensitive.
  • Dark_Arbnger - Lost City
    Dark_Arbnger - Lost City Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    nooblet moments ftw lol
  • Koroko - Sanctuary
    Koroko - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    know what to do? hate the tank... SOLO FB xD
  • _Shalimar_ - Sanctuary
    _Shalimar_ - Sanctuary Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited February 2009
    I agree with everyone here. That tank was whining, and whiner tanks don't deserve the help. I have cleric friends who do the heal/damage thing with me and it works fine. I usually don't have a heiro because i don't have the money for it and it's not required. But if I do have a heiro, then it is there to cut the cleric some slack. I personally feel that in being a WB, your job is to make sure everyone else stays alive, even if you die in the process. There have been times when a boss fight goes bad and I simply sacrifice myself so the rest of the squad can get to safety. Tanks also have the easy job if you ask me. All we have to do is hit the boss or whatever and spam our skills while keeping an eye on the mobs in the area. DD's have to worry about not stealing the agro, which puts pressure on them. And the clerics have to keep me alive and make sure nobody else dies. And also the clerics are the ones who are most vital in being able to switch strategies if it is needed. That is what i have to say, take it how you wish. =D
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