mana management
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Zauren - Sanctuary
Posts: 4 Arc User
Hey all,
I was just a little curious as to which you guys thought was more cost efficient coin wise was to keeping mana up for questing grinding at my level and levels to come. Mana pots or gold/silver/bronze charms?
Right now I am using mana pots and at this level and it is a moderate cost. I am on a PvE server using the full mag build. Health pots arent really a problem at all I normally only carry whatever health pots that drop from mobs. Normally if I am having to kill mobs that I can't kill before reaching me they usually only get 1 hit on me and my life powders take care of that.Anyways just curious as to what everyones view on this was. Oh, and at higher levels will zhenning be necassary to level at a decent rate as a wizard? If I keep enjoying this game I will probably spend about 15-20 bucks a month on it (about the same as I would a pay to play mmo, I think that is fair) but looking at the prices that alone dont seem like it would get me too far especially if I was having to zhen( and zhenning kinda sounds boring too).
I was just a little curious as to which you guys thought was more cost efficient coin wise was to keeping mana up for questing grinding at my level and levels to come. Mana pots or gold/silver/bronze charms?
Right now I am using mana pots and at this level and it is a moderate cost. I am on a PvE server using the full mag build. Health pots arent really a problem at all I normally only carry whatever health pots that drop from mobs. Normally if I am having to kill mobs that I can't kill before reaching me they usually only get 1 hit on me and my life powders take care of that.Anyways just curious as to what everyones view on this was. Oh, and at higher levels will zhenning be necassary to level at a decent rate as a wizard? If I keep enjoying this game I will probably spend about 15-20 bucks a month on it (about the same as I would a pay to play mmo, I think that is fair) but looking at the prices that alone dont seem like it would get me too far especially if I was having to zhen( and zhenning kinda sounds boring too).
Post edited by Zauren - Sanctuary on
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mmm I say gold charms if you can afford them. 900k mana for 350k from the right people, and sometimes a little less...
but then again, i hate having to see a merchant for pots every time i wanna grind0 -
mmm, glacial embrace+focus powder and a mana potion every now and then keeps cost to a minimal especially if you go already have the crane herbs. A charm is not a good investment imo simply becasue it kicks in at 75% mana. Don't forget that you have a natural regen rate. At lvl 45 with lvl 8 glacial embrace I get roughly 22 mana regen when I am not in fighting mode, add 50 from focus powder (not to mention meditating doubles rate so around 140+ mana/sec). You can regen 5k mana in about 30seconds when meditating. Just my 2 cents.0
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Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »mmm, glacial embrace+focus powder and a mana potion every now and then keeps cost to a minimal especially if you go already have the crane herbs. A charm is not a good investment imo simply becasue it kicks in at 75% mana. Don't forget that you have a natural regen rate. At lvl 45 with lvl 8 glacial embrace I get roughly 22 mana regen when I am not in fighting mode, add 50 from focus powder (not to mention meditating doubles rate so around 140+ mana/sec). You can regen 5k mana in about 30seconds when meditating. Just my 2 cents.
Either use glacial embrace and meditate+afk for saving money or get a charm if you're serious.Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0 -
Charm charm charm.
If you're going to buy mana regen items, get a gold mp hiero."Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
"get a charm if you're serious." Ding Ding Ding! +10
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as an added note. Try to put one point on essential sutra to keep your max hp 20% higher. Lvl one is fine because it jumps from 0% to 20% in just one lvl. And from than on remember to cast double spark eruption whenever you get two sparks to regain mp. This helps a lot in conserving my mana. Each double spark eruption i do while grinding gives me back about 950 mp. Saves a shitload of money since im constantly stacking fury.0
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Moog - Lost City wrote: »as an added note. Try to put one point on essential sutra to keep your max hp 20% higher. Lvl one is fine because it jumps from 0% to 20% in just one lvl. And from than on remember to cast double spark eruption whenever you get two sparks to regain mp. This helps a lot in conserving my mana. Each double spark eruption i do while grinding gives me back about 950 mp. Saves a shitload of money since im constantly stacking fury.
erm... essentail sutra is only 1 level... you mean wellspring quaff?0 -
^
yeah =P b:surrender0 -
Thanks for the replies, I am looking forward to being able to use focus powders, I am in hopes this will reduce my pot usage a bit. At the moment I have to use a pot per mob to keep my mana full while doing grinding quests, which I usually don't do. I normally use a pot about every 2 mobs which keeps me going for awhile. Usually with this method I can just about get my group of quests done before going back to turn in quests and usually just regen my mana while in town. Of course I was thinking ahead to the point where I am doing more grinding than quests.
As far as the mats go for the powders the cost of em don't bother me too much. Right now I have a cleric with improved flying speed that I shelved. I will usually log onto him every now and then and collect the level one mats. As far as level 2 I am just grabbing them as I see them and will actually farm them when I get my aerogear with my mage. I don't mind spending an hour every now and then collecting herbs, breaks up the boredom of constant of kill kill kill.0 -
are you a full int wizard? Cause I am, and when I use wellspring quaff, I have enough mana to use untill I need to meditate for my HP. Just be patience, you will have enough mana eventually. Level Glacial embrace and use wellspring quaff (when you reach 30).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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The thing is, if you stack all those herbs and sell them rather than use them, you'll most likely be able to buy a gold mp charm at some point which will be much better than whatever amount of crappy 10-minute powders you could've gotten.Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.0
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I'm new and I doubt that it will ever be addressed but even in my short time playing this game that the reliance on charms is not a positive aspect of this game. To me it subtracts from the character for example when I used a HP charm technique/skill became irrelavant while farming.0
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Xerela - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm new and I doubt that it will ever be addressed but even in my short time playing this game that the reliance on charms is not a positive aspect of this game. To me it subtracts from the character for example when I used a HP charm technique/skill became irrelavant while farming.
thats because some people get careless just because they got a charm..
what makes it better then pots, is if you use it WISELY... it saves your **** quite often if something goes wrong, say a mob spawns near you while your fighting another mob.... no one likes losing exp. Also by using it in conjunction with pots, you get more then the worth of it... lets say your at the quest where you gotta collect 45 drops in 30 mins... you really want to sit there and pot till ur full again, or meditate? I think not.
My 2 cents0 -
i would say you dont need anything but the water shield.
just sit down a bit to regenerate.
i had no charm and didnt use any mana pots until lvl 50+, but then it starts slowing you down significantly.....so dont worry, lvl up water shield for now0 -
I use a little of both depending on my cash flow. Currently I'm broke, so I don't use any charms at all. I do carry pots though, and they do drop fairly often.
The best bet imo is lvl 10 glacial embrace, lvl 5 wellspring (has to be this high for sutra). Grind till your out of mana, sit down med, wait til your out of combat. Drink like 2-3 pots and your good for another 20 mobs or so. At my lvl I rarely get hit anymore, and its mostly magic mobs anyway so its not like i'm losing a lot of hp.
My 2 cp.0 -
Early levels are hard to keep up with mana use. Once you get sutra and double spark eruption its a little easier, both of which will regen 10% of your total mana for the cost of 2 spark. Couple that with a maxed out Wellspring Quaff and you can supplement your pot use reasonably well. Of course levelling Wellspring is a tough choice as there's usually something more attractive when it comes to SP point spending, but it comes down to personal preference.
The thing about MP regen pots is that if you're grinding as fast as you can you'll spend pretty much 95% of the time in combat mode reducing the effectiveness of regen pots to 20%.
For fast levelling charms are the way to go hands down. Buying pots is more expensive than buying charms. It's less micromanagement and you never have to worry about apothecary pot cooldown.
Personally though I despise the way MP charms are implemented regaining mana at 75% is a complete rip-off purely designed to burn charms quicker.I like pie0 -
Personally I go charm & mp regen. As mentioned before, mp regen is only 20% effective in combat mode. So to make it a bit more worthwhile, I try to kill mobs till I'm down to around 80% before I go pick up loot; that way will earn me a few seconds of full mp regen. Another way I go about saving mana is to use those lvl 1 spells that are useless most of the time, i.e. pitfall, hailstorm, and crown of flame. Their damage is only bout half that of your regular spells (depends on your lvl n build type), but they'll still do the job if the mob's hp is only bout 10~15%. And since they are lvl 1 (assuming u didn't lvl them), they'll use up only fraction of the mana needed for other spells; and only has 1sec channeling to boot cept for hailstorm0
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Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »On my server crane herbs sell for .8-1k easily, meaning those 10 minutes of mana regen are hardly worth it. They're just a waste of money.
Either use glacial embrace and meditate+afk for saving money or get a charm if you're serious.
Well, that only equates to roughly <3k a powder for 10minutes (since you make 5 for 15 crane herbs). A charm kicks in at 75% and I believe is much more costly. Charms in my server have recently hit 400-450k each. They use to be around 320k and that was acceptable but 400k for 900k mp is not my idea of cheap.
But yes, if you are very serious about grinding, get the charms like suggested, otherwise I would suggest a focus powder. Your natural regen rate+glacial embrace along with a focus powder is a good way to minimise cost.
@Kristoph - remember, he isn't a high level and I doubt he will even want to shell out 400k for a charm. He has equips to buy and not to mention you should be picking up mats/herbs on the way when questing. If he has the patience he could sell the mats and herbs but I still do not think this is worth it. There is nothing wrong with the 10minute focus powders, just because you see them as worthless since you have a heiro, it does not give you the right to say that the 10minutes regen items are "****". Having a charm kick in at 75% max mp is not a very smart way to spend your hard earned money imo, atleast not at his level.
Just my 2 cents.
Edit: rephrased a few things.0 -
Wellspring and glacial embrace are my best friends. With the two activated I have enough mp for 10-15 minutes of grinding before it gets low. When you reach lvl 59 get sutra or the advanced spark as it instantly gives a couple thousand boost to your mp. As wizards we also regenerate mp quickly so meditating for a few minutes is all it takes to get back to full.
I don't use many pots when grinding instead opting to meditate occasionally. There are certain times when you will need mp pots such as for long bosses, (mantavip and TT bosses come to mind) so keep a few pots on hand for these occasions.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, that only equates to roughly <3k a powder for 10minutes (since you make 5 for 15 crane herbs). A charm kicks in at 75% and I believe is much more costly. Charms in my server have recently hit 400-450k each. They use to be around 320k and that was acceptable but 400k for 900k mp is not my idea of cheap.
But yes, if you are very serious about grinding, get the charms like suggested, otherwise I would suggest a focus powder. Your natural regen rate+glacial embrace along with a focus powder is a good way to minimise cost.
@Kristoph - remember, he isn't a high level and I doubt he will even want to shell out 400k for a charm. He has equips to buy and not to mention you should be picking up mats/herbs on the way when questing. If he has the patience he could sell the mats and herbs but I still do not think this is worth it. There is nothing wrong with the 10minute focus powders, just because you see them as worthless since you have a heiro, it does not give you the right to say that the 10minutes regen items are "****". Having a charm kick in at 75% max mp is not a very smart way to spend your hard earned money imo, atleast not at his level.
Just my 2 cents.
Edit: rephrased a few things.
Later on the problem with mp regen powders and etc. is that their effectiveness is greatly reduced when you're in combat. Sure, it's still very helpful, but overall you might benefit a lot more from just selling the herbs and buying a mana charm.
I only wish mana charms would regen at 25% or something.0 -
DiFiore - Heavens Tear wrote: »Later on the problem with mp regen powders and etc. is that their effectiveness is greatly reduced when you're in combat. Sure, it's still very helpful, but overall you might benefit a lot more from just selling the herbs and buying a mana charm.
I only wish mana charms would regen at 25% or something.
it will be kinda the same really since anyway the same amount will be used over time unless you plan to meditate right b4 they tick which is stupid....Is Back once more.
sorry med school needs some time.0 -
I understand your idea that mana consumption rates are unrelated to mana charm tick % Mosabi, but you're forgetting something important, you have to consider mana regen, both your flat rate and what is recovered from Adv Fury. Your mana regen in battle if pure and 7x will be quite substantial (10 from GE, 17 from magic stat, 10 from cleric buff = 37mp/s out of battle and ~ 9 mp/s in battle). Every second you spend at your maximum mana your mp regen is zero (you cant go beyond maximum). By having your charm tick at higher %s you spend a greater amount of time at max mana so you lose out on some mana regen. To prove it to yourself that this is true consider if they raised the tick % to 99% of max mana. In that case a single spell will tick your charm and you will find you spend all of your time at maximum mana and thus your mana regen is always zero. There is one more factor that charm tick rate screws with and that is mana recovery from Adv Fury. For Adv Fury to regen entirely you must be no higher than 85% mana (+10% recovery and you're going to recover another ~3-4% in the time it takes to queue up next monster/get your first cast in). This leaves a very fine line to walk 75%-85% where the mana regen from Adv Fury is fully effective. You might not get 2 sparks until you're at 73% which means your charm will tick. This means one of two things, you will use a partially effective Adv Fury (lost mana regen) or you will have to wait until 85% and lose out on some fury which also implies lost mana regen. You may argue that the effects from mana regen is negligible and indeed perhaps it only accounts for only a single percent. But even at 1%, how many charms have you run through? I've run through quite a few myself and I anticipate if I were to have all that lost mana given to me right now it would be considerable. Myself I'ld prefer if we could set our own charm tick %s, I would put mine down at somewhere around 25% but I would be very happy if it were lowered to a flat 50% as well.0
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As a sidenote if a pure Mage (6x+) has the cleric mp regen buff and GE L10 you would be thoroughly surprised at how long you can go on max mana. I know that I sure was, I started MP charming back around 55 and recently I've started to play without MP charm a bit (I put them on for TW or FB/HH). Using Volraith's method of picking up drops all at once coupled with intelligent mana and fury usage you can go for a very long time and this is only with wellspring L5. Toss in an odd mana pot or two (never buy them from npc, only use the ones you pull from drops, if you buy them from an npc you're better off using a charm) and it makes for an efficient use of all those mana pots you pickup (selling them back to NPC is a waste and people wont buy them for NPC sell price). I wouldn't advise it if you're using esoterica as you want to get as much out of that as possible but just for a little ordinary grinding don't be afraid to say no to the charm (at least for a little while). Also it's a good way to lower total MP charm consumption while the charm packs are down, lets show the PWI people that reducing charm costs from $4.00 to $3.20 increases their profits not lowers.0
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Agree with Elahim.
You all would be surprised how much focus powder makes a difference. It's like a super mana regen buff from a cleric. My whole point about charms vs focus powder was pretty much based on the charm ticking at 75%. If they didn't tick at 75%, I would reconsider them, however focus powder is still more cost-efficient.
Besides, the OP wanted a way to minimise cost... and at his level he cannot afford to pay 400k for a charm. Sure he could farm mats and sell them for 400k, but how long will that take? Is it really worth it?
Focus powder+Natural regen+GE is not to take lightly. For ~2k (smart buying from catshops or farm them yourself) you can grind 10minutes pretty much without pots. Unless you are on an esoterica, I see no reason why you would want a charm tbh.
I find my wizard doing fine with just a focus powder in grinding sessions - nothing else needed. Quaff, GE, Focus Powder and grind away. If you're low on mana, regen for 30seconds or pop a mana pot you pick up. MP charm is just not worth the investment at his level.0
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