Thieves and Scammers
Saitada - Sanctuary
Posts: 3,220 Arc User
The wording of the Battle Pet items needs an immediate change. It implies by the wording that ONE source of Force and ONE Phoenix feather is all you need to aquire a battle pet, and the thieves and scammers are using that to rip off new players.
I have seen already two characters doing this. <edited>(who everyone on Sanctuary that's been around for more than a week or two knows is an absolute unscrupulous thief and scammer) was recently selling individually separated feathers and source in City of the Lost for 100k ea and his stores name implied he was selling Battle Pets (not components to aquire one).
Now some new loser (<edited>) is doing the same thing, their store is named BattlePets and they have the source and feathers separated individually, with a price of 20k ea on them, implying ONE is all you need to get either pet.
The wording of the Source and the Feathers needs to be change to show they are a SINGLE component of a larger number needed to create the Battle Pet.
I recommend this: You need 9999 "Phoenix Feathers"/"Source of Force" to aquire a "Blazing Phoenix"/"Baby Hercules" from Mrs. Zoologist in Archosaur.
so for a Phoenix feather it would read:
You need 9999 Phoenix Feathers to get a Baby Blazing Phoenix from Mrs. Zoologist in Archosuar.
This would put a stop to these outragous thieves who seperate the feathers deliberatly, in an attempt to scam someone by misrepresenting exactly what they need to aquire a pet.
Now for all you haters who will respond to this thread with your vitriol. Ripping someone off in game, as in life, is wrong. If your unable to see that, then you need to read my signature and apply it's wisdom.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader
I have seen already two characters doing this. <edited>(who everyone on Sanctuary that's been around for more than a week or two knows is an absolute unscrupulous thief and scammer) was recently selling individually separated feathers and source in City of the Lost for 100k ea and his stores name implied he was selling Battle Pets (not components to aquire one).
Now some new loser (<edited>) is doing the same thing, their store is named BattlePets and they have the source and feathers separated individually, with a price of 20k ea on them, implying ONE is all you need to get either pet.
The wording of the Source and the Feathers needs to be change to show they are a SINGLE component of a larger number needed to create the Battle Pet.
I recommend this: You need 9999 "Phoenix Feathers"/"Source of Force" to aquire a "Blazing Phoenix"/"Baby Hercules" from Mrs. Zoologist in Archosaur.
so for a Phoenix feather it would read:
You need 9999 Phoenix Feathers to get a Baby Blazing Phoenix from Mrs. Zoologist in Archosuar.
This would put a stop to these outragous thieves who seperate the feathers deliberatly, in an attempt to scam someone by misrepresenting exactly what they need to aquire a pet.
Now for all you haters who will respond to this thread with your vitriol. Ripping someone off in game, as in life, is wrong. If your unable to see that, then you need to read my signature and apply it's wisdom.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader
Post edited by Saitada - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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I've never witnessed any players doing that on lost city, but its sounds like quite an annoyance. Makes me mad when people exploit new players, it ruins the game for them
If i just started playing a game that was new to me, and everyone was trying to cheat me outta my hard earned cash id be pretty upset.
I agree, they should update the item descriptions![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ex-Waffles Director
~Ragequit0 -
What.. your not allowed to out the thieves and scammers so nobody will get ripped off by them? I see, so PWI SUPPORTS thieves and scammers.. Good job. Nice to know.
Fine.. ANYONE on sanctuary that wants to know who these two scammers are, the one well known one (if you don't already know who he is), and the newest loser. Feel free to PM me ingame, i'll be VERY happy to tell you who they are so you can avoid them like the scum sucking, bottom feeding, low life garbage they are.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader0 -
I have a problem with them, but I guess you guys support what they are doing (otherwise you wouldn't have removed their names) so I'll just shut up now and let the new players come in and get ripped off by these scum and get sick of the game and leave it, never having enjoyed it nearly as much as they could have.... All because PWI supports unscrupulous behavior from it's playerbase.Edited the names out, don't do that. If you have a problem with a specific player, contact a GM here.
This is good to know though. It means I can go buy some source and feathers and make bank! Thanks for making me rich off the nubs! (Sarcasm intended)
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader0 -
I'm not saying I support them. I'm saying forum rules state that issues with members be brought up directly to the staff so they can take action. Telling the whole forum won't help.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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hmm yes it will help. It means those few who read the forums, won't get taken in by these scammers because they have been publicly outed and (one would hope) shamed into stopping it.
One of the biggest problems MMO's have is the staff (and yes I am implying critisism here of corporate rules and laws) are afraid if anyone is outed and their "reputation" destroyed some little punk might have a daddy that is a lawyer and sue you.
Biggest problem with America is all the lawsuit happy bottom feeders suing over stupid things like "I spilt coffee on myself and burned my crotch because i'm an idiot that doesn't know coffee is hot so I shouldn't be putting it between my legs while I am driving! So i'm going to sue Micky D's and make mad bank!"
Call people on their ****. Don't let them HIDE. **** "politically correct" all thats done is turn the world into a bunch of pansy assed whiners.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader0 -
I'm not saying I support them. I'm saying forum rules state that issues with members be brought up directly to the staff so they can take action. Telling the whole forum won't help.
And it's good to know you don't support this type of scamming. I would hate to have to make a new signature saying your mean. (lol j/k)
Saitada0 -
If I may...
I can understand both sides to this.
Rather than argue about the removal of names from the thread, be more concerned with educating players how to spot the real from the fake.
There will always be scammers no matter what is done but it is the knowledge of how to spot them that will make or break a player in the end.
Don't think of the moderators as supporting those who do wrong in the game. That is not their intent. They are just moderators following the rules set forth for them.0 -
Yeah I know. It just gets my goat that rules like that play into the hands of the scammers and thieves, rather than protecting the people they prey on.
~S0 -
What Neios said is correct. If you give us two names of players who use a scam that is likely used by more players, everyone will avoid those two, while still continuing to fall into the trap of the other scammers. Calling names gets us nowhere, saying what the issue is does.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I might be totally wrong... but im pretty sure she gave you a description of what they are doing.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ex-Waffles Director
~Ragequit0 -
welp... I got a response from PWI support from a ticket I sent in concerning one of these scammers a few days ago. The gist of it is... "we don't set ingame market values" player beware... So.. all you scammers out there.. gear up, you can do anything you like. PWI won't stop you.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader0 -
Don't forget to include pictures either (don't know if those were included before the original post was edited).
Without evidence such as that it just boils down to a he said/she said dilemma and will likely be tossed out.
b:mischievous0 -
I totally understand your anger Saitada. But the rules aren't all that weird and unreasonnable. Imagen, the players you're talking about read this post, and then start spreading all kind of calumnious talk about you on this forum (believe me, the kind of people your talking about will be able to do such a thing). Then your warning has the exact opposite effect. Once that starts, there will be no end, and this forum will be polluted and absolutely useless.
Just hope your message is enough to warn people. I've seen it to, but for me a non-veno class selling a veno-only cashshop item is already fishy. Why did he/she buy that if it isn't for making money?
New players should learn as soon as possible that catshop=ripoff (at least 95% of the time), and that if they are looking for something they better check the auctionhouse. Even the buy-out prices are lower than catshop prices. Just to give an example of a snow hare: auction +/- 40k and buyout at about 50k, catshop minimum 60k (and the maximum I've seen was 116k!!!)0 -
Neios - Sanctuary wrote: »Don't forget to include pictures either. Without evidence such as that it just boils down to a he said/she said dilema.
b:mischievous
I DID provide pictures. I'm REALLY disgusted by PWI supports response to this type of scamming. Something so BLATANTLY unscrupulous as this should not be allowed.. but nope.. it's all a-ok and hunky dorie.
I'm so disgusted by this, i'm flat refusing to buy any more gold. I've spent 1200+ dollars in this game since I started late in october (first zen purchase the 21'st of october).. I won't be spending another dime to support this company after this response.
~S0 -
PWI, as with most online markets, is built on "buyer beware". There is nothing inherently wrong with overpricing an item -- whether it be 3000 coin for a Nectar or 20k for a Source of Force. The GMs are correct in saying they do not set market prices in the game. That does not mean they support scamming (which is what you are accusing them of), but they cannot do anything about the average player's lack of knowledge or inexperience when it comes to their conscious decision to buy goods from other players. It's similar to catshops in the beginner cities selling materials for 2k+ to newbies, when their worth is obviously far less -- but if they want to pay that much, it's there choice.
There's a difference between ripping players off and scamming them. If the players in questioning are explicitly and intentionally deceiving players, such as providing misinformation, that's a scam. Charging 20k for a Phoenix Feather is not a scam.0 -
Ithilmir - Sanctuary wrote: »There's a difference between ripping players off and scamming them. If the players in questioning are explicitly and intentionally deceiving players, such as providing misinformation, that's a scam. Charging 20k for a Phoenix Feather is not a scam.
Taking phoenix feathers and putting them one by one in their own box, and pricing them 20k ea (you hover over the feather it says "take this to mrs. zoologist in archosuar to aquire a Blazing Phoenix") and putting the name of your catshop as BattlePets is intentionally decieving and misrepresenting what your selling as the ONLY individual item you need to get a baby blazing phoenix.
Want proof? Click <edited>
The misrepresentation can't be any more blatant than that.
And your right, charging 20k for feathers isn't a scam, it's a rip off, it's HOW it's done that is the scam.
~S0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
Want proof?
The misrepresentation can't be any more blatant than that.
I agree and think they should modify what is being said in the item description, I also think you need to edit your pictures to remove Names since you basically just called them out again. b:chuckle0 -
Concept before pointing fingers.
Avoidance knowledge for newer players is more important than names they should be aware of.0 -
Saitada, I did tell you not to name the players. You're doing a fine job telling the players not to buy from these shops - there's no need to name the offenders. Editing them out again.
Also, read your pm would you?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm very confused on to how this is a scam.
I saw the screenshots before they were edited out. If these "scammers" were advertising over trade/normal chat to "come get your battle pets! 100k!" then I would be inclined to agree with you.
However, it just seems to be a bit of overpricing. To imply that they are scammers and whatnot is a bit harsh. I don't see a post concerning people setting up shops in Lost City during the Christmas event, buying dice tickets at 3k all night, "scamming" poor lowbies out of their snowman drops.
Quite slanderous. I'm glad the names were removed. A suggestion to change wording/general warning thread might have sufficed better.
PW is a free market last time I checked. The only way a lot of us can make some coins is by being shrewd PW business men. Do you really want to put a hurt on those "thieves?" Don't write out a long thread calling them out... just set up a shop next to them with cheaper prices.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Changed my mind. Permanently Retired - Only here to troll.0 -
Done and responded. *plays AOL " You've got mail" sound in background.*
~S0 -
Defected - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm very confused on to how this is a scam.
I saw the screenshots before they were edited out. If these "scammers" were advertising over trade/normal chat to "come get your battle pets! 100k!" then I would be inclined to agree with you.
However, it just seems to be a bit of overpricing. To imply that they are scammers and whatnot is a bit harsh. I don't see a post concerning people setting up shops in Lost City during the Christmas event, buying dice tickets at 3k all night, "scamming" poor lowbies out of their snowman drops.
Quite slanderous. I'm glad the names were removed. A suggestion to change wording/general warning thread might have sufficed better.
PW is a free market last time I checked. The only way a lot of us can make some coins is by being shrewd PW business men. Do you really want to put a hurt on those "thieves?" Don't write out a long thread calling them out... just set up a shop next to them with cheaper prices.
If you can't see how taking each individual source or feather and placing it in it's own sales box at a rediculously high price for the SINGLE STACKABLE item, then naming your shop "BattlePets" is not a scam...
Never mind, i'm not going to flame you. Just read my signature..
~S0 -
Saitada,
I know exactly what you are talking about, I observed the same **** on Heaven's Tear last night and thought to myself "what a jerk (well, not exactly what I thought, but I can't type my EXACT thoughts here...lol)"
The same exact issue recently reared it's head on the Malaysian version. Be glad you don't play there because the inflation from gold farmers there made the scam charge 60mil as a bargin (phoenixes go for 100mil+ over there because of farmers ruining the economy).
I 100% agree with having the text changed. It's a localization change, handled by the translation department, and could simply be patched in with an upcoming patch. They do it all the time.
However, that is about the end of what I agree with you. The main reason we can not call out players by name on the forums is because it opens the proverbial "Pandora's box" for any such accusation to be held as guilty before proven innocent. I am not saying these individuals are innocent (far from it!) rather, I am speaking of cases beyond this example.
Accusations on forums are as common as blades of grass, and if someone were simply allowed to name anyone they wanted, anyone could start a "smear" campaign against anyone they chose, whether the accusation was truth, mis-interpretation, lack of game knowledge, or just blatent lies to ruin someone's reputation.
It is best to just submit your evidence to the staff and let them investigate things first hand without playing judge,jury, and executioner youself (or anyone on the forums for that matter).
Unfortunately, they are right about not being able to "police" in game pricing set by players. No game (in their right mind) will because of the trickle down effects it would have on in-game economies over time (i.e...inflation versis static pricing). It is up to the players to educate themselves prior to purchasing, much like real life consumers do prior to purchasing.
Unfortunately, players using "virtual currency" are more likely to be lazy about that education than someone buying something in the real world with real money simply because the consequences are far less.
But, don't forget...I do agree that the localization team could just amend the item description, and then this becomes a moot point.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »I DID provide pictures. I'm REALLY disgusted by PWI supports response to this type of scamming. Something so BLATANTLY unscrupulous as this should not be allowed.. but nope.. it's all a-ok and hunky dorie.
I'm so disgusted by this, i'm flat refusing to buy any more gold. I've spent 1200+ dollars in this game since I started late in october (first zen purchase the 21'st of october).. I won't be spending another dime to support this company after this response.
~S
Take a deep breath and look at the first reply a moment from the mod. b:surrenderEdited the names out, don't do that. If you have a problem with a specific player, contact a GM here.
If you click on "here" in their reply quoted above you'll be taken to a report page. That page goes to the GMs who will investigate and address the individuals in question. It's not about anyone not caring. They just want an official report sent.
See, the idea is.. placing it in the forums can give others the idea of doing such that they didn't have before. But that's minor in the overall of it.
The mod was just trying to show you where to send your concerns to. As the GMs and staff do not get into the forums to address such things as they would via the report system the mod was attempting to send you to.
It's much quicker and easier to send them to the report page in the link than to post it in the forums.0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »welp... I got a response from PWI support from a ticket I sent in concerning one of these scammers a few days ago. The gist of it is... "we don't set ingame market values" player beware... So.. all you scammers out there.. gear up, you can do anything you like. PWI won't stop you.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader
Was your ticket about those scammers or about the phrasing of the descriptions of those items?
I have sometimes had to open multiple tickets (not here, elsewhere) when I confused two issues by trying to describe them together.
(And I think you had a good point in your initial message -- these items could have their descriptions be improved.)0 -
Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »However, that is about the end of what I agree with you. The main reason we can not call out players by name on the forums is because it opens the proverbial "Pandora's box" for any such accusation to be held as guilty before proven innocent. I am not saying these individuals are innocent (far from it!) rather, I am speaking of cases beyond this example.
Accusations on forums are as common as blades of grass, and if someone were simply allowed to name anyone they wanted, anyone could start a "smear" campaign against anyone they chose, whether the accusation was truth, mis-interpretation, lack of game knowledge, or just blatent lies to ruin someone's reputation.
It is best to just submit your evidence to the staff and let them investigate things first hand without playing judge,jury, and executioner youself (or anyone on the forums for that matter).
Yeah I see your point and as much as I hate to agree with it... I do.Twilyte - Heavens Tear wrote: »Unfortunately, they are right about not being able to "police" in game pricing set by players. No game (in their right mind) will because of the trickle down effects it would have on in-game economies over time (i.e...inflation versis static pricing). It is up to the players to educate themselves prior to purchasing, much like real life consumers do prior to purchasing.
Unfortunately, players using "virtual currency" are more likely to be lazy about that education than someone buying something in the real world with real money simply because the consequences are far less.
But, don't forget...I do agree that the localization team could just amend the item description, and then this becomes a moot point.
In this I disagree.. they can set a top value price for some things, although I do agree it could have unforseen consequences down the road. The Virtual Currency part can come into play if people haven't gotten their coin through cash shop purchases and re-sales but only through hard earned grinding... but then.. if they had the cash to pop the shop.. they most likely wouldn't be buying 1 source of force or 1 feather for 100k thinking they just bought themselves a Baby Hercules or Baby Blazing Phoenix. And it's THAT that shouldn't be allowed.
Rewording the description to show that it's a single component of a larger number needed.. would do wonders.
~S0 -
Someone was advertising a source of force on worldchat last night for 2299k. I thought it was a typo at first, but ran across the person advertising the same in regular chat in Archosaur. Now I wonder if he was trying to pull off this scam.
In a true free market, everyone is well informed (knows what they are buying) and knows how much everyone else paid for it. The whole point of the stock tickers and indices like the Dow Jones Industrials Average is so everyone can see on average how much everyone else has been paying for those stocks. So unless the game implements something that (say) pops up the high, low, and median price of the last 100 sales of the item in all cat shops throughout the world, it's not a free market. I really wish games wouldn't try to advertise their crippled and scam-rife implementations as a free market, it gives capitalism a bad name. (Or maybe that's the point since the game is coded in China.)0 -
The item descriptions should definitely be updated to be more specific. Problem solved.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Signature designed by Forsakenx
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Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »The wording of the Battle Pet items needs an immediate change. It implies by the wording that ONE source of Force and ONE Phoenix feather is all you need to aquire a battle pet, and the thieves and scammers are using that to rip off new players.
I have seen already two characters doing this. <edited>(who everyone on Sanctuary that's been around for more than a week or two knows is an absolute unscrupulous thief and scammer) was recently selling individually separated feathers and source in City of the Lost for 100k ea and his stores name implied he was selling Battle Pets (not components to aquire one).
Now some new loser (<edited>) is doing the same thing, their store is named BattlePets and they have the source and feathers separated individually, with a price of 20k ea on them, implying ONE is all you need to get either pet.
The wording of the Source and the Feathers needs to be change to show they are a SINGLE component of a larger number needed to create the Battle Pet.
I recommend this: You need 9999 "Phoenix Feathers"/"Source of Force" to aquire a "Blazing Phoenix"/"Baby Hercules" from Mrs. Zoologist in Archosaur.
so for a Phoenix feather it would read:
You need 9999 Phoenix Feathers to get a Baby Blazing Phoenix from Mrs. Zoologist in Archosuar.
This would put a stop to these outragous thieves who seperate the feathers deliberatly, in an attempt to scam someone by misrepresenting exactly what they need to aquire a pet.
Now for all you haters who will respond to this thread with your vitriol. Ripping someone off in game, as in life, is wrong. If your unable to see that, then you need to read my signature and apply it's wisdom.
Saitada DeGrief - Contagion Leader
Hello Saitada,
Thank you very much for bringing this issue to our attention and you have a very good suggestion. We have taken note of this and are looking into making a change. However, due to the process that the change has to go through, this will not be something that is fixed overnight and may take 2-3 patches to go by before it is implimented. Once again, very good suggestion and yes, we do have a hands-off approach to the in-game economy set by players which is common of any game company. That is mainly because if we attempted to set those trade prices ourselves, the ultimate end result would be that the items would be more valuable than the in-game currency or everyone will end up poor with only 5% of the population on the server having the majority of the coins. Please note that anyone that purchases the in-game coins from a third-party website (which is against the Terms of Service and is bannable, DON'T DO IT OR I WILL FIND YOU) also contributes to the increase of item prices and over time causes inflation of the economy on that server. So it is not only Perfect World Entertainment that can effect the economy but all of you as players effect it as well. The more of you that stick to the Terms of Service, the more stable your economy will be on your servers.
Got on my soap-box for a second, let me get back down to Earth here. Thanks again for the suggestion and hopefully we can do something more sooner than later. Remember that we cannot police in game trades so it is up to you as the player to make sure you do not get scammed so educate yourself before you buy (just like real life, wierd eh?) and these bad apples can't trick you.-Your friendly neighborhood Shnuggs-
[PWE Billing]
Perfect World Entertainment Customer Support System
"Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error."
-Andrew Jackson
Shnuggles [Shh-nugg-ulls]
-proper noun
1. He who turns negativity into giddiness.
2. Has an IRL cat that plays fetch b:victory0
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